Marauder Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Hello, I have not played my assassin in a while and have recently switched over to a tank spec. I had leveled up using a hybrid madness spec. I am trying to start doing the daily missions and would like to use either Ashara or HK as my dps companion. Can you please tell me as a new sin tank, what an atypical rotation would be to use? Also if anyone has some proven builds I could compare to what I did that would be great. When tanking for a group, would the rotation asked for above be different? Thank you for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterFeign Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 This build here is quite normal: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MIrokrskbsZZf0cM.2 For pve tanking. At low levels, putting 3 points in Shroud of Darkness isn't a huge benefit but it can be once you get better gear. Rotation: Dark ward (every time it's near the end Taunt (force pull/mind control/mass mind control) Wither Shock Thrash to proc shock Shock Force lighning (with 3 stacks of harnessed darkness SOmething like that anyway. It's been a while since I've properly tanked. You can also use discharge to gain some aoe threat and debuff the enemy with more accuracy debuffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipagex Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I wouldn't use Taunt right off the bat if i was you. As the fight initiator you are gonna be the one to have aggro at first. Use Taunt when you lose that aggro. For rotation check out this amazing site: http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/sith-inquisitor/sith-assassin/darkness/tanking-rotation-and-cooldowns It's helped me alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griad Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I am using this as a main tank for any ingame content http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MIrokrskbsZf0dZb.2 The shorter Jolt and the lower CD to discharge is nice aswell when u pull from stealth you can go much more bananas in the beginning because of the added force regen. On burn phases like Kephess in TFB on TFB the maul damage comes in handy aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpftard Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I wouldn't use Taunt right off the bat if i was you. As the fight initiator you are gonna be the one to have aggro at first. Use Taunt when you lose that aggro. For rotation check out this amazing site: http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/sith-inquisitor/sith-assassin/darkness/tanking-rotation-and-cooldowns It's helped me alot. The info on Noxxic is fairly right. 31/0/10 and the priority. Alot of tanks have switched to a "thrashless" rotation. I rarely use thrash unless I just have an urge to try and force the proc. I shifted the talent points accordingly to somewhere more useful. But if you are starting out.... The Noxxic info would be a great place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP_Legatus Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) This build here is quite normal: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MIrokrskbsZZf0cM.2 For pve tanking. At low levels, putting 3 points in Shroud of Darkness isn't a huge benefit but it can be once you get better gear. Rotation: Dark ward (every time it's near the end Taunt (force pull/mind control/mass mind control) Wither Shock Thrash to proc shock Shock Force lighning (with 3 stacks of harnessed darkness SOmething like that anyway. It's been a while since I've properly tanked. You can also use discharge to gain some aoe threat and debuff the enemy with more accuracy debuffs. If you shock first then wither you get to 3x HD faster. Also I go thrashless for full darkness now due to force issues in that spec. I still run out of force sometimes even in thrashless, so I know you guys are having trouble with thrash as your filler. It's because of the expensive shock.... 50 force isn't something you can spend regularly in any spec. Edited January 18, 2013 by JP_Legatus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboWithAStick Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Trash should be used allot as a sin tank to proc your auto crit shock. That being said you should be using wither and discharge off cooldown and should always be working towards 3 stacks of harness darkness for the awesome channeled heal from force lightening. That being said just like every SIN spec in the game you should be using the free attack when you are below 20 force. Tips Use force pull on the way into combat (even on bosses) Taunt after about 9 secs into combat as this builds threat on the threat you have already built Open up with wrecklessness and overcharge saber (more healing and more damage from saber stance=More agro) If you have any doubts on what I'm saying check out my sig =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I am using this as a main tank for any ingame content http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MIrokrskbsZf0dZb.2 The shorter Jolt and the lower CD to discharge is nice aswell when u pull from stealth you can go much more bananas in the beginning because of the added force regen. On burn phases like Kephess in TFB on TFB the maul damage comes in handy aswell. What good is duplicity for a tank? I mean, how often do you maul to make it worth the points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbare Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) I am using this as a main tank for any ingame content http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MIrokrskbsZf0dZb.2 The shorter Jolt and the lower CD to discharge is nice aswell when u pull from stealth you can go much more bananas in the beginning because of the added force regen. On burn phases like Kephess in TFB on TFB the maul damage comes in handy aswell. That is pretty bad, man. First of all, maul is almost useless as a tank as the mobs you are tanking are going to be facing you the whole time. Second, The discharge reduced cooldown is pointless because the debuff is already longer than the cooldown. Finally, there is no point in getting the extra force regen from exiting stealth, you lose aggro when you cloak, and threat generation shouldn't be a problem for an assassin if you know how to play the class. There is no reason to cloak other than to refresh your medpac use, and that is only in rare situations when you can afford to lose aggro, not to mention the fact that these situations usually are in rest phases where your standard force regen is fine. Edited January 26, 2013 by bbare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbare Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Trash should be used allot as a sin tank to proc your auto crit shock. That being said you should be using wither and discharge off cooldown and should always be working towards 3 stacks of harness darkness for the awesome channeled heal from force lightening. That being said just like every SIN spec in the game you should be using the free attack when you are below 20 force. Tips Use force pull on the way into combat (even on bosses) Taunt after about 9 secs into combat as this builds threat on the threat you have already built Open up with wrecklessness and overcharge saber (more healing and more damage from saber stance=More agro) If you have any doubts on what I'm saying check out my sig =) I disagree with the use of thrash a lot, because it will ruin your force management. However, I'm interested in your theory that force pulling immune targets will still increase threat. Do you have any evidence to prove this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I disagree with the use of thrash a lot, because it will ruin your force management. However, I'm interested in your theory that force pulling immune targets will still increase threat. Do you have any evidence to prove this? It does. Used it multiple times on boss-immune targets, and got aggro from it. As far as thrash or no thrash goes - its impossible to have a "rotation" with thrash in it that also allows shock and wither on cooldown. However, force management in linked to shielding/parrying, and sometimes you'll do enough of it to keep up your force above that. When that happens you use thrash. But I agree, a cost reduction on shock somewhere in the tree would be nice, since we do miss out on energize procs, but mostly the "proccing" shock off cd is a false bonus in longer fight, since your force cannot sustain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternalnight Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) For rotation check out this amazing site: http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/sith-inquisitor/sith-assassin/darkness/tanking-rotation-and-cooldowns Please do not call Noxxic.com amazing site (unless by amazing you mean amazingly stupid) Now granted, if you look just the first part of the rotations there, it is fairly good and can be of some good help for someone new to the class, but that is all. I would not recommend Noxxic.com for anyone ever. Almost everything else they say about assassin tanks is completely wrong! (and every single guide for every class contains noteworthy mistakes) Their stat priority especially when it comes to the values you should get each stat is terribly wrong, not even anywhere near what they should be. (You should rather go for something more like: 30% defense, 45% shield chance (that is 65 with dark ward up) and 60% absorption, and not the ridiculous numbers Noxxic gives you which are just copy pasted from other classes guides that have different priorities (although the numbers are not correct for other classes either.)) Their explanation about how accuracy rating works is completely wrong. (in reality ops bosses or any pve mobs do not avoid force/tech attacks with their defense chance (the special attacks that can be defended are melee/ranged special attacks, not force/tech attacks) so accuracy does not benefit force/tech abilities at all. And the optimal accuracy for tanks is 0, not 330 like noxxic falsely claims) Even on the rotations and cooldowns pages there are few epic fail mistakes (such as listing Force Cloak + Force Shroud together as if those abilities were somehow supposed to be used together which is just stupid. Force Shroud is one of your best defensive cooldowns if used at the right time, making you immune to all force/tech damage, but you can't use Force Cloak at the same time as that would just cause the tank to loose aggro and fail. Threat reduction abilities should not even be listed for tanks as survivability cooldowns. Force Cloak as a tank is only useful for few rare special situations for things like refreshing those medpacks that can otherwise be used only once per combat) Edited January 28, 2013 by Eternalnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckoneful Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Read my guide! I've tested and gone over all my information there. It is correct. You don't want to heavily rely on thrash, this will kill your force management, lower your dps, and lower your healing done over the course of a fight. Also, Force Pull DOES indeed generate threat. It generates 5152 threat regardless of gear. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=591132 That is the assassin version of my guide. Edited January 28, 2013 by ckoneful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tXHereticXt Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Use force pull on the way into combat (even on bosses) I always saved Force Pull for desperate matters when a mob decides to break. But that was just me and my little attempt at reinventing a versatile chain that I was comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grogget Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) What good is duplicity for a tank? I mean, how often do you maul to make it worth the points? For 23/1/17, its worth the one point in there, especially after the changes. Before, it would only seem to proc from using Saber Strike or Discharge, now it has a chance to proc on almost any attack: Thrash, Shock, Force Lightning. Keep in mind, this is from a purely PVP standpoint. In PVE, if you're the tank, the mob ALWAYS faces you unless its stunned, so you don't ever really have a chance to use Maul. Edited January 29, 2013 by Grogget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) Trash should be used allot as a sin tank to proc your auto crit shock. That being said you should be using wither and discharge off cooldown and should always be working towards 3 stacks of harness darkness for the awesome channeled heal from force lightening. That being said just like every SIN spec in the game you should be using the free attack when you are below 20 force. No. Thrash is a TPS and DPS loss. It should ONLY ever be used when you're going to be wasting Force regen (e.g. Wither, Shock and Discharge on CD, less than 3 stacks of HD, single target, and Force at ~70). You maximize DPS, TPS, and survival by just using Shock and Wither on CD to build 3 stacks of Harnessed Darkness ASAP, filling in empty GCDs with Saber Strike (except in the above corner case), and using Force Lightning immediately upon reaching 3 stacks. Using Thrash is so Force-negative that you'll wind up delaying your use of Force Lightning to hunt for Energize procs, and Thrash doesn't do enough damage to justify using on its own. Consider Energize procs happy accidents when you're trying to avoid wasting Force regen, and don't make any effort to make them happen. So basically, priority winds up looking like: Dark Ward (if 1 stack remains, or remaining duration = ~1s) Force Lightning (with 3 stacks of Harnessed Darkness) Discharge (to maintain debuff) Wither (on CD, basically) Shock (on CD, basically) Thrash (Shock, Wither, Discharge on CD, <3 stacks of HD, >= 70 Force) Saber Strike Under ordinary circumstances you'll toggle between Shock > Wither > Shock > FL and Wither > Shock > Wither > FL, averaging one FL about every 12s (the two patterns build HD at differing rates). Please do not call Noxxic.com amazing site (unless by amazing you mean amazingly stupid) Now granted, if you look just the first part of the rotations there, it is fairly good and can be of some good help for someone new to the class, but that is all. I would not recommend Noxxic.com for anyone ever. Almost everything else they say about assassin tanks is completely wrong! (and every single guide for every class contains noteworthy mistakes) This. This so hard. Noxxic is a terrible resource, and does little except to get new players onto a path of mediocrity. Not a single one of their guides is accurate or describes how any class should gear, spec, or play. It was put together by a bunch of scrubs too dumb to know they're scrubs, based on oudated information, and no effort has been made to update anything on that site based on any empirical evidence, theorycrafting, or evolving metagame. What good is duplicity for a tank? I mean, how often do you maul to make it worth the points? Worthless in PVE, definitely worth a point in PVP when you can actually circle dance. There's really no reason to ever deviate from the standard 31/0/10 build at 50 for PVE tanking. Edited January 29, 2013 by Omophorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) Derp, i fail Edited January 29, 2013 by Omophorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckoneful Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I always saved Force Pull for desperate matters when a mob decides to break. But that was just me and my little attempt at reinventing a versatile chain that I was comfortable with. Use it throughout the fight so that doesn't happen. Also, Shadows create sickening amounts of threat and really shouldn't be losing aggro anyways and that's what taunts are made for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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