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DavidStaats

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To fix that, all they should have done was stop counting the stacked items. There was no reason to nuke it for legit crafters, especially when we didn't get anything to replace the small infinitely repeatable fillers.

 

And what comes to BW and their data, no-one here has seen it. But we've all seen some toxic whiners attacking and spreading lies about crafters. In my opinion, that's why they did it. To shut up the whiners.

 

i don't know how much you have kept track of conquest on the different servers recently and how guilds of all sizes have been using grade 1 components as well as the ability to craft things that rewards 4 or more items in a very abusive way, which is why the devs are changing these things. If you read the original forum threads (which was locked) you can see a lot of the abusers come out in defence of the system and looking at their guild tags and ingame names it players from all forms of guilds.

 

it sucks that a few legit crafters get a few thousand fewer points for crafting but I think as a general change this is a good way to handle crafting abuse

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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i don't know how much you have kept track of conquest on the different servers recently and how guilds of all sizes have been using grade 1 components as well as the ability to craft things that rewards 4 or more items in a very abusive way, which is why the devs are changing these things. If you read the original forum threads (which was locked) you can see a lot of the abusers come out in defence of the system and looking at their guild tags and ingame names it players from all forms of guilds.

 

it sucks that a few legit crafters get a few thousand fewer points for crafting but I think as a general change this is a good way to handle crafting abuse

 

Yes, and I said all they needed to do was prevent the stacked items count as 4 or 6.

 

It's not a few thousand points per legit crafter, that we miss now. It's a few thousand points per alt we want to cap with just a couple of thousands of points. People want to play alts, I wanted to cap alts, and because we got nothing to replace those odd few thousand points per toon, we can't cap that many alts anymore. They already managed to make conquest alt friendly once everyone was happy, and now they are destroying it again.

 

If someone from BW can explain why people with lots of alts are not welcome in the game anymore, I'd like to hear it. Maybe then I would understand why my sub money isn't as good as some other sub's money.

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Yes, and I said all they needed to do was prevent the stacked items count as 4 or 6.

 

It's not a few thousand points per legit crafter, that we miss now. It's a few thousand points per alt we want to cap with just a couple of thousands of points. People want to play alts, I wanted to cap alts, and because we got nothing to replace those odd few thousand points per toon, we can't cap that many alts anymore. They already managed to make conquest alt friendly once everyone was happy, and now they are destroying it again.

 

If someone from BW can explain why people with lots of alts are not welcome in the game anymore, I'd like to hear it. Maybe then I would understand why my sub money isn't as good as some other sub's money.

 

That’s the real issue here for many of us with lots of alts. We are now limited again to what we can do to get them through.

 

I’ve gotten a lot less through this week than I would have by now. I’ve gotten all the activities done I enjoy and then I’m stuck rerunning chapters which are boring and slow to get a few thousand points to finish off an alt. So instead I’m logging off and spending half as much time logged in.

 

I had unsubbed and I was waiting for the patch to gauge wether to resub. But with the delay due to weather, my sub ran out before I could test this patch, so I resubbed to test. Now I’m severely regretting it because the patch is a mess and I can’t even get as many alts through conquest as normal.

 

I think this will be my last subscription payment for swtor unless they make some changes that make it worth while.

Honestly, I’m not sure what to play and that’s part of the reason why I’m still here.

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There are several things here, and even though we've tried to explain them, certain people either don't want to listen, don't understand, or are deliberately not doing it, just to keep causing issues in this thread.

 

We had speculation that people were botting, but no actual proof. The 'proof' people put forward were the huge amount of CQ points people were getting....well, they same people, same guilds are still getting them.

 

We had speculation that people were using the multi pop options to get more CQ point, so changing it so that no matter how many pop, it only counted once was a good idea, probably the only decent idea they've had for CQ in a long time.

 

As for the infinite crafting, that weren't abused, they took too much effort to set up, and create for a viable way to abuse CQ. They were just an easy target for people as they needed something to blame for their own loss at CQ.

The same guilds are still in control of CQ, still getting the same points. There's only one big guild on SF that isn't, and according to rumours, it has nothing to do with the changes.

 

As for content, crafting is content, it's an integral part of the game, without crafting, you wouldn't have shiny new augs, and other stuff. You'd only had the CM as an outlet for dyes, etc. So be thankful you have crafters, at least for the moment. Because of these bad decisions, we've already lost players, and will probably continue to do so

Edited by DarkTergon
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What a ridiculously inaccurate post.

 

The top guilds were NOT winning through 'clicking a button' - they were winning because they had the numbers and activity base to win (which may have included crafting, but also included every other aspect of the game).

 

This change did NOTHING to those guilds - they are still sitting atop the leaderboards without crafting.

False, the change did impact them significantly, since those large guilds also crafted to get a LOT of points.

 

To beat those guilds as a "crafting guild" you had to click the Craft button a million times and it probably still wouldn't be enough. The only guilds you could beat were honest large guilds that ran activities and didn't kick people out for low CQ activity.

 

 

To repeat - this change did NOTHING to change the fact the largest, most active guilds win conquest.

 

It benefited the guilds actually running gameplay activities as those don't have to worry about a crafting guild putting their efforts of organizing guild events to shame. It benefited all large guilds because they're no longer forced to click the "Craft" button to protect themselves from some lone few people prepping war supplies by clicking "Craft" for months on end.

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False, the change did impact them significantly, since those large guilds also crafted to get a LOT of points.

 

To beat those guilds as a "crafting guild" you had to click the Craft button a million times and it probably still wouldn't be enough. The only guilds you could beat were honest large guilds that ran activities and didn't kick people out for low CQ activity.

 

 

 

 

It benefited the guilds actually running gameplay activities as those don't have to worry about a crafting guild putting their efforts of organizing guild events to shame. It benefited all large guilds because they're no longer forced to click the "Craft" button to protect themselves from some lone few people prepping war supplies by clicking "Craft" for months on end.

 

Nobody in the game is forced to do anything. If those large guilds were unwilling or too lazy to craft, it's their own fault. Most of those "activities" by big guilds that you advertise, require very little effort from the members. It's the officers that have work to arrange events, regular members just have to join and collect the points that are handed to them pretty much freely. That practically yells LAZY.

 

People in smaller guilds, people with lots of alts have to actively find ways to make conquest points if they want to cap their personal and guild goals. You are being jealous of the people who worked harder than anyone else to earn their points because there was no officers to hand out their conquest points for free, like in big guilds.

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can we get a increase in amount of points it takes to complete the personal goal? 50,000 was easily done in 30 minutes, would be cool if I could select higher amount of points and get higher rewards for achieving it, especially if the guild doesn't go for the large yield.

 

I hope BW adds another tier of rewards to conq one day. Guildship stops being a thing. Instead, you now have a guild fleet! Your former Harrower class guildship is now flanked by two Terminus class destroyers for you to buy and unlock. More places to deco, more perks to unlock. In order to unlock the new ships, you need to acquire[New encryptions] Only characters bringing in 200k conquest/week get additional conq mission done and can bring in a [new encryption] to their guild.

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As for content, crafting is content, it's an integral part of the game, without crafting, you wouldn't have shiny new augs, and other stuff. You'd only had the CM as an outlet for dyes, etc. So be thankful you have crafters, at least for the moment. Because of these bad decisions, we've already lost players, and will probably continue to do so

 

Many crafted dyes are already going up in price as I predicted because people would stop crafting as much. I had to raise my sell price significantly to not be the cheapest and they still sell for 500,000. Some Cartel market dyes are now becoming cheaper than crafted ones.

 

This will only get worse and spread to other crafted items because supply will fall and demand will stay the same.

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Nobody in the game is forced to do anything. If those large guilds were unwilling or too lazy to craft, it's their own fault. Most of those "activities" by big guilds that you advertise, require very little effort from the members. It's the officers that have work to arrange events, regular members just have to join and collect the points that are handed to them pretty much freely. That practically yells LAZY.

 

Yes, not wanting to click "Craft" a million times is lazy. Are you listening to yourself?

 

People in smaller guilds, people with lots of alts have to actively find ways to make conquest points if they want to cap their personal and guild goals. You are being jealous of the people who worked harder than anyone else to earn their points because there was no officers to hand out their conquest points for free, like in big guilds.

 

Look, I used to think like you. That Crafting wasn't a big issue, some people enjoyed it, and it will do more harm than good to remove it.

 

But then my large guild ran events all week (I ran most of them personally) on the one week we did have a shot(the galactic war week) and lost to a guild a fraction of our size because they had a ton of war supply materials prepped. And I know they did because that guild is no-where to be seen on the leaderboards any other week and got most of their progress in off-peak hours.

 

We weren't lazy, we ran multiple events every day and got a lot of our members engaged in gameplay. And the few guys clicking "Craft" a lot deserve it more? Give me a break.

Edited by Eli_Porter
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And I know they did because that guild is no-where to be seen on the leaderboards any other week and got most of their progress in off-peak hours.

 

.

 

1. off peak to you, may not be off peak to them

 

2. They might not be on the leader board, because normally, there are only 3 planets, and a ton of guilds trying to get on the leader boards.

 

3. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Unless you are sitting beside every member of their guild watching what they are doing, you have NO idea how they earn their CQ points, all you have is speculations.

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1. off peak to you, may not be off peak to them

 

2. They might not be on the leader board, because normally, there are only 3 planets, and a ton of guilds trying to get on the leader boards.

 

3. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Unless you are sitting beside every member of their guild watching what they are doing, you have NO idea how they earn their CQ points, all you have is speculations.

 

My guild is regularly on the top 10 on Large yields, that guild is no-where to be seen and beat us on the week we pushed our hardest. You first claim crafting is an important contribution, and then claim it's not a significant enough contribution at the same time, you keep chasing your own tail only to try saving what in essence is the lowest-effort and most boring activity in the game which requires zero thought and maximum credits+mouse clicks.

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Unless you are sitting beside every member of their guild watching what they are doing, you have NO idea how they earn their CQ points, all you have is speculations.

 

And such speculation has already been used in an astroturf campaign to do damage to Conquest, small guilds, and many players' Conquest activities.

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And such speculation has already been used in an astroturf campaign to do damage to Conquest, small guilds, and many players' Conquest activities.

 

Inb4 the next campaign to ruin CQ for small guilds or causal players because the same people still can’t get top spot on the scoreboard (as we all predicted).

 

You know it’s coming and it’s only been a week. The same antagonists are already scoping out things to Nerf or asking for Bioware to increase the personal weekly totals or guild totals. Which makes no sense cause it won’t allow these people to win anymore than nerfing crafting did.

 

It’s a case of they aren’t good enough to win, but it can’t be their fault, so it must be because people are cheating. Better Nerf everything that they don’t like or play because that might stop other people playing and give the a chance to win.

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My guild is regularly on the top 10 on Large yields, that guild is no-where to be seen and beat us on the week we pushed our hardest. You first claim crafting is an important contribution, and then claim it's not a significant enough contribution at the same time, you keep chasing your own tail only to try saving what in essence is the lowest-effort and most boring activity in the game which requires zero thought and maximum credits+mouse clicks.

 

At this stage I can only guess you are trolling, as I never said either of them. Now, what I did say was that smaller guilds use them to boost their points to get the planet yield. Crafting objectives are important to them.

 

And I also said crafting wasn't the reason big guilds were on the leader board, or winning all the time. The proof is the fact that those same guilds are still there, still doing the same thing.

 

The only person chasing their tails are the people who claimed crafting was causing their guilds to lose CQ, and now crafting is nerfed, they are still complaining. We're just waiting to see what they blame next, and demand is nerfed.

 

Crafting takes a lot more thought, just because YOU can't do it, and don't understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't take effort. To maximise crafting, you need to PLAN ahead, GATHER resources, make sure you have all the correct items. Craft a load of pieces, then use those pieces to craft more. It takes as much effort to craft war supplies as it does to run and organise an op. IN fact, it takes a lot less effort to run YOUR so called content. Anyone can get a group of people together and run around killing stuff for rampages, anyone can put a group, or several together to run TC/queen Sm, two extremely easy and fast ops, there is nothing on your list that takes as much time or planning to organise as crafting war supplies.

 

 

As for 'Lowest effort' how much effort does it take for a max group to run around an area killing all the enemies there.

Edited by DarkTergon
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False, the change did impact them significantly, since those large guilds also crafted to get a LOT of points.

 

To beat those guilds as a "crafting guild" you had to click the Craft button a million times and it probably still wouldn't be enough. The only guilds you could beat were honest large guilds that ran activities and didn't kick people out for low CQ activity.

 

 

 

 

It benefited the guilds actually running gameplay activities as those don't have to worry about a crafting guild putting their efforts of organizing guild events to shame. It benefited all large guilds because they're no longer forced to click the "Craft" button to protect themselves from some lone few people prepping war supplies by clicking "Craft" for months on end.

 

Significantly? Really?

 

The guild which the anit-crafting trolls named and shamed in more than one thread over their months-long crusade against crafting, and which said trolls claimed was using bots + crafting abuse to stay atop the large planet leaderboard, is still at the top of the leaderboard.

 

The next several very large guilds that sat atop the medium and small planets from week to week are still taking them this week.

 

So please, explain how this change significantly affected those guilds because it didn't.

 

They didn't win from bots and crafting, they won by being larger and better organized.

 

The losers are still losing though, so I imagine it's only a matter of time before the losers find something else to blame for their losses and start the whole 'NERF XXXX IT'S BEING ABUSED" nonsense all over again.

Edited by DawnAskham
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Yes, not wanting to click "Craft" a million times is lazy. Are you listening to yourself?

 

 

Yes. That's exactly what it is. Maybe you should read again what you wrote and think what you actually wrote.

 

You don't want to do it because you find it boring (?) or insert whatever reason, and you can afford to not do it in a large guild with lots of events. But small guilds, and people with a lot of alts are willing to do that to have a chance at least to reach their goals. Yet you seem genuinely upset that some people got conquest points with activity that you don't want to do. I don't get that. I don't get upset that people get a lot of cqp for doing GSF. I could do it too if I wanted to, but I don't want to. It's my choice not to do that objective, like it was everyone else's join choice to craft or not to craft.

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Significantly? Really?

 

The guild which the anit-crafting trolls named and shamed in more than one thread over their months-long crusade against crafting, and which said trolls claimed was using bots + crafting abuse to stay atop the large planet leaderboard, is still at the top of the leaderboard.

 

The next several very large guilds that sat atop the medium and small planets from week to week are still taking them this week.

 

So please, explain how this change significantly affected those guilds because it didn't.

 

They didn't win from bots and crafting, they won by being larger and better organized.

 

The losers are still losing though, so I imagine it's only a matter of time before the losers find something else to blame for their losses and start the whole 'NERF XXXX IT'S BEING ABUSED" nonsense all over again.

 

My non-crafting guild was #12 overall at this point of the week, right now we're at #6 and don't have to fear a crafting guild in a week where more planets open up. I'm very happy with the changes and definitely don't feel like a loser that keeps losing.

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It's pretty evident that crafting abuse was a significant thing as Bioware did two different fixes it in two patches, I understand that a few of you had some negative impact from this and that is of course unfortunate. As with many of the changes meant to deal with credit sellers, spammers and other forms of abusive behaviour (not only crafting), that implies the price we have to pay for a less abuse and exploitable game.

 

For most of us, I am sure, that is an acceptable price to pay as very few want to game to allow such blatant exploits and abusive behavior.

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...Bioware did two different fixes it in two patches, I understand that a few of you had some negative impact from this and that is of course unfortunate..

 

I clipped the parts where you tried to stamp all crafters as abusers and exploiters (repeating a lie doesn't make it true), and only respond to the bit I quoted.

 

It's not just a few people had negative impact, it's a lot of people with alts because we have nothing to replace those missing few thousand points per character. The mob some people arranged here to attack all crafters a few weeks back was a disgusting example of the state of the playerbase. That was textbook example of abuse and hatespeech, yet BW did nothing to address that. I guess it's okay for them to have a group of thugs running around the forum attacking people and violating tos as much as they like, but it is not okay for them to have all types of playing style viable regarding conquest, because crafters and altoholics are left without repeatable conquest objectives, while everyone else has plenty of them.

 

I raid every day, and I get to do it in company I like. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING would convince me to do any other content with randoms anymore, seeing how horribly people treat others with the blessing of BW. The only way for me to cap alts was heroics and crafting, and because that's gone now, I have nothing to do in game when I'm not raiding. That's not just unfortunate, it's unfair and sad, because I used to spend hours per day playing the game. Now I just log in at raid times. It feels like losing a friend I've known for almost a decade.

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It's not just a few people had negative impact, it's a lot of people with alts because we have nothing to replace those missing few thousand points per character.

 

If reaching 50k on alts is your concern, be aware that doing all the crafting dailies (invasion force+dark project+inventor 2+crew skills) is still 30k every day. Then you can just gift a companion to rank up for the last 20k.

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If reaching 50k on alts is your concern, be aware that doing all the crafting dailies (invasion force+dark project+inventor 2+crew skills) is still 30k every day. Then you can just gift a companion to rank up for the last 20k.

 

That’s one Alt. What about people who have many Alts?

 

Just because we don’t play the game the way you do doesn’t mean our way of playing is irrelevant or not as good. Some of us like to get as many Alts done each week, while others are happy to get 1 million points on one character. Neither is better than the other, they are just different ways of playing.

 

I just wish you and some others would realise that you’re not the only people playing this game.

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That’s one Alt. What about people who have many Alts?

 

That covers 7 characters, if you want to cap more than that and still refuse to play with others outside of prog ops, then I can point you to some fast and effortless heroics you can do.

Edited by Eli_Porter
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That covers 7 characters, if you want to cap more than that and still refuse to play with others outside of prog ops, then I can point you to some fast and effortless heroics you can do.

 

How difficult can it be for you? Let me try one more time:

 

As someone who plays multiple alts, I usually start a character with heroics. It will be a couple of thousands short and I used do crafting inventor to reach my personal goal, because wasting 5k points on something I can't repeat would be waste of conquest points.

 

Crafting is not my main thing to do for conquest and it's never been, it's a FILLER. We were not given anything replace that FILLER for a few thousand odd points we are now short of. Because heroics are NOT infinitely repeatable, we run out of the objectives, while people who play other game modes such as fps, gsf and pvp have infinitely repeatable objectives.

 

A rough list of differences and disparity between different playmodes:

 

- Solo players objectives: Heroics (once per day per legacy) + crafting (a joke)

- GSF player objectives: too many to list (infinitely repeatable) + some huge chunks of points daily + socialite

- PVP player objectives: both ranked and unranked medalists and what not (infinitely repeatable) + socialite

- FP player objective: random FP (infinitely repeatable) + some big score objectives once per day + socialite

- PVE (raiding): Finishing an op, lots of points per day per legacy, but not alt friendly at all, and only rampage points from adds if the group doesn't finish it, which is often the case on progression raiding.

 

Give us infinitely repeatable heroics, and people with multiple alts and small guilds won't be singled out from conquest, like they are now.

Edited by DeannaVoyager
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You keep repeating the "few thousand" point line and the "many alts" line as if there's an army of people with your very specific problem. I don't know the number of alts you try to cap, I don't know the exact activities you decide to run.

 

What I do know is that getting a few thousand conquest points solo is extremely easy unless you exhaust a LOT of solo objectives, heroics are just the tip of the iceberg.

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That covers 7 characters, if you want to cap more than that and still refuse to play with others outside of prog ops, then I can point you to some fast and effortless heroics you can do.

 

I’ve 60 Alts and heroics aren’t enough. I don’t do operations as I find them boring.

 

You still don’t get it do you. Not everyone plays the game the way you do. Your attitude towards other play styles is selfish IMO. You don’t care about other people if they don’t play the way you think they should or they don’t fit your mould of what CQ should be.

 

I don’t come here and tell you how to play because I know there are many ways to play this game and if you enjoy playing a certain way then that’s cool as long as you have fun. But you only want to dictate what I should consider fun to do.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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