Every class with knockback > classes with no knockback

Considering most of us play Empire and Huttball is the Warzone we will be playing more then any other.

As a geared marauder myself playing in level 50 pvp i can safely say that no spec of sorcerer is the least bit threatening at all. Maybe you just need to sharpen up your skills bud

My major issue with the Sorc right now is seeing a group made up of 5 or 6 of them. If even 4 of them are in vent together they will just focus burn anyone together. End of story!

Basically meaning too many Sorc is a bad thing. No matter what spec but a single is nothing to kill.

Oh, look. Sorcerer number 10 000 that wants to preserve how ridiculously overpowered he is so that he can kill everyone easily in his generic build and try to show his "skill" to other players because he has nothing else to show them.

O look bad player number 15 that that thinks its.the sorcs that are op and not the truth that he just sucks hahaha

O look bad player number 15 that that thinks its.the sorcs that are op and not the truth that he just sucks hahaha

Again the Sorc are bad in large numbers. Squash a single Sorc like a bug! DO IT!!! It is fun I tell you. They make a different sound then every other player in the game when they die.

My major issue with the Sorc right now is seeing a group made up of 5 or 6 of them. If even 4 of them are in vent together they will just focus burn anyone together. End of story!

 

Basically meaning too many Sorc is a bad thing. No matter what spec but a single is nothing to kill.

Lol that's any class , so what your saying is that sorcs are not op its team work that is op.

Ok so nowwww I see .

You won't to nerf any class that uses team work to win so you can solo and be all Billy bad ***.

Nerf team work its op bhahajaha

My major issue with the Sorc right now is seeing a group made up of 5 or 6 of them. If even 4 of them are in vent together they will just focus burn anyone together. End of story!

 

Basically meaning too many Sorc is a bad thing. No matter what spec but a single is nothing to kill.

Same goes to 4 Maras or Shadows downing someone in one global easily. Your point?

I haven't seen non-sorcerers defending the hybrid spec. On the flip side I've seen some Sorcerers saying they're probably overpowered with the hybrid spec but fine or semi-weak with the 31-point specs. I've also noticed that a large percentage of people defending the hybrid spec aren't typing in complete sentences and have a lot of censored words in their posts.

It is funny to see how you make up more and more fabricated lies and anecdotal "evidence" so you have a "sound" argument.

Same goes to 4 Maras or Shadows downing someone in one global easily. Your point?

My point was to argue against them being super OP. Now maybe this hybrid spec is a bad thing. I know nothing at all about it. Sorry!

Not even worth my time to upload pics so I'll just use the ones I posted before. I don't "get destroyed" by anyone. That doesn't mean I don't understand when a class is imbalanced and needs to be fixed.

 

https://imgur.com/a/P3lM4#0

Must be a murader who can crit for how much, and you're complaining about a sorc?

I think you are missing some of what I posted. There toolkit is the way it is because when you actually play a DPS sorcerer you will realize that it feels like a utility spec and not a real damage dealer. Granted the Hybrid spec the OP talks about gives the player more utility then they probably intended any spec to have and that should be adjusted. But in no way do i think the class is OP even with that extra utility. There are seen as OP because they stack amazingly well with any class and its own, and people automatically associate representation with OP or something is amiss.

 

When you take that hybrid spec you are embracing the role as a utility class sacrificing damage, and of the 31 point builds does more raw damage then the utility build the OP is taking about, and the Deep Madness hybrid build is the best for Damage, but even then it isn't as good as most other classes can do for damage. Even that build is largely a utility spec. Do the specs put up impressive numbers when you look at the scoreboard? Of course, Sorcerers do great AoE especially the hybrid builds, they can pad the WZ damage meters like no other, but something everyone should of learned from WoW or any MMO is that those numbers mean ****. That damage is mostly sustain low damage and AoE. If we could look at damage that actually matters and kills people, you would see Sorcerers are quite low. Burst wins, not sustained and even the bust Sorcerer build have low burst compared to other classes.

 

Bioware should adjust things to ton down Hybrid builds, such as making it so Wrath doesn't work with Force Lightning but only applies to lightning Strike, but buffs the damage by 30-40% so that LS actaully hits for a decent amount instead of being a tickle to anyone in decent gear. Crushing darkness should be instant or have a shorter C/D when specced into the talent that increases its duration. It would also help if Creeping Terror was worth a damn. Just shuffling talents doesn't fix anything aside from breaking hybrid builds.

 

 

 

I think you missed my point by comparing those two. The point was to show how week a full 31 point build of a sorcerer is when compared to a spec of another class, that has a similar play style. It is there to show why so many spec hybrid, full 31 point spesc just fail for sorcerers. And you also forget that Commandos also have hammer shot, a spamable not ammo/heat shot. It doesn't do a whole lot of damage. So many people don't realize that the Sorc/Sage is the only class without a resource free spamable damage ability. These abilities don't do a crap ton of damage as they aren't meant to, however they are incredibly useful, and i have killed plenty of people who try to LoS chasing while spamming hammer shot, and they are also extremely useful when you need to run away from a melee. All i have my sorcerer is a dot that does crap damage and shock that is on a C/D and requires a proc to even do decent damage.

 

Like i said earlier we see the class as OP because they are everywhere, and they stack well, but that is because they are really a utility class in PvP, and the only one that. Maybe that design is overpowerd in a game like this, and they should look into adjusting that, so that when they are Damage specced they fill more of that damage role. If that is the case they need a rework and not a nerf. Of course a rework would be hard as long as they keep with the stupid shared tree concept, especially when one of ACs is melee and they other is ranged, it rarely ends up being good for both classes, and sometimes they flat out feel out of place.

I can actually agree with that. If people want to nerf hybrid/CC then I want compensation and at least make TK at least a decent burst specc.

Like making Turbulence instant cast, upping the procc chance of Tidal Wave a bit so we are not so bound to turret mode and fixing the silly Telekinetic Momentum bugs (100% procc chance with 1 point, 0% with 2 or 3 points)

And also add a somewhat exciting tier 7 talent next to Reverbation. Cut down Reverbation to 3 points with 20%/35%/50% steps and add a nice 2 point talent there like many other trees do.

I read through your post. Honestly I think the classes are pretty well balanced, other than possilbly the Op/Scoundrel which could probably use some love. I have played several different classes and each has it's pluses and minuses. I've also played with lot of players and I know at least several of each class that can make that class great. You only prove that by posting your screenshot. You say sorc are OP but then you post a screen shot of how you did 2-4 times there damage WHILE doing more healing for close to as much as them. How easy do you want the game to be for yourself?

You made it obvious that you can make your class work well for you against them and others have attested to the same thing. So you really can't say it's overpowered. You COULD argue that it's an easier class to play than others. I would say that's debatable. I have seen game with lots of sage or sorcs have done well and I've seen others where they have gotten slaughtered. It really depends on the players, gear, and other classes( Just like every game).

You say that the hybrid spec is "Unintentional". What is the point of the talents if not to pick the right combination that suits your playstyle? If you dumb down everything to 1-3 specs there is no point to the entire system. If it was truely unintentionally, they did a brilliant mistake, because there are lots of pretty viable specs right now. And contratry to what you said there are drawbacks to the hybid spec you posted.

Bottom line do you want to make the game better or worse? There are so many more important issues that need to be focused on. Like Ilum needs a serious rework, the UI needs lots of work, game performance with lot of players, etc. Classes balance is one of the least of this game's problems. The last thing the game needs is a systemantic nerfing of every class. Because that's what it's turning into and that is a great way to lose players and kill the game. It seems to be dying enough already.

If tjey let us respec are AC I'm sure you would see a lot less sorcs and a tun more assassins. Sorcs are a good over all class.. not that hard to play . Fun with the tools it has but my shadow I rolled up on pub so I didt have to do the same story over is so much Better.

More dps more kills less deaths , over all its more. Iv bin kicking my self for a few weeks now for not rolling a assassin to start with.

A lot of what Megamaid is saying is true. Sorcerers typically do less single target damage while having a LOT more CC/Control/Utility in the hybrid spec I posted. In PvP however control and utility reign supreme in any team situation. The only PvP we have is team based PvP. This is a huge part of why they're overpowered in that spec. It's also true that Sorcerers stack well. 6x Sorcerers in a team means you might as well surrender if you don't have as many. You'll never be able to touch them.

I agree w/ everything you say here, but if you take away the utility that a Sorc brings to the table, then what you are left w/ is a mediocre dps class.

The CC/utility is the only thing allowing that Sorc to cast at you or run away if you get close. When stacked, a lot of classes become ridiculous. Sorcs do synergize well, but I don't think this is anything unique to their class.

I had a Voidstar match where my side was 8 BHs (different specs, all roles). The enemy didn't have a prayer of making it past the first door.

I read through your post. Honestly I think the classes are pretty well balanced, other than possilbly the Op/Scoundrel which could probably use some love. I have played several different classes and each has it's pluses and minuses. I've also played with lot of players and I know at least several of each class that can make that class great. You only prove that by posting your screenshot. You say sorc are OP but then you post a screen shot of how you did 2-4 times there damage WHILE doing more healing for close to as much as them. How easy do you want the game to be for yourself?

 

You made it obvious that you can make your class work well for you against them and others have attested to the same thing. So you really can't say it's overpowered. You COULD argue that it's an easier class to play than others. I would say that's debatable. I have seen game with lots of sage or sorcs have done well and I've seen others where they have gotten slaughtered. It really depends on the players, gear, and other classes( Just like every game).

 

You say that the hybrid spec is "Unintentional". What is the point of the talents if not to pick the right combination that suits your playstyle? If you dumb down everything to 1-3 specs there is no point to the entire system. If it was truely unintentionally, they did a brilliant mistake, because there are lots of pretty viable specs right now. And contratry to what you said there are drawbacks to the hybid spec you posted.

 

Bottom line do you want to make the game better or worse? There are so many more important issues that need to be focused on. Like Ilum needs a serious rework, the UI needs lots of work, game performance with lot of players, etc. Classes balance is one of the least of this game's problems. The last thing the game needs is a systemantic nerfing of every class. Because that's what it's turning into and that is a great way to lose players and kill the game. It seems to be dying enough already.

Like WoW is going to do next expansion. Fixated talent trees with no variation and all you get is one flavour talent every odd 15th level.

Hooray for diversity!

Not. -.-

All the Sorc FOTM players defending their class.

All the bads crying OP.

See wat I did thar?!

All the Sorc FOTM players defending their class.

lol, I rolled my Sorc before it was even possible to have a FOTM class. Much like most of the Sorcs you see running around. I'm sorry that I didn't predict during early access exactly what class everyone else was going to pick and decided to choose a class that appealed to me for years before the game came out.

I play a Powertech as my main now. Because I also played a Sorc, I know what the class weaknesses are and how to exploit them, and so they do not seem OP to me at all.

If you are having problems w/ Sorcs, you should learn what to do against them instead of simply crying for nerfs.

It's not hard to shut a Sorc down.

Its been mentioned a few times, but no one's really discussed it much at length, but changing the lightning tree by moving all these talents up means:

1. the lightning tree needs to be redesigned entirely otherwise it's useless for leveling.

2. the top abilities get moved down in favor of the utility abilities, which makes no sense, and actually makes the tree even stronger for hybrid builds than it is now by giving the current top talents at the bottom tiers.

Since I assume 2 is just a stupid idea that no one would honestly entertain, let's look at 1. If we take away things like the 20% buff to the shield and chain lightning and move them higher, what else is there in this tree for someone leveling a sorcerer? Honestly, there's nothing. You can grab the +100 force maybe and 9% reduction to abilities from tier 1, but if there's nothing good above it, who would bother? Force management in PvP isn't as much of an issue at 50 anyways. You can get infinite heals in corruption, so force management doesn't matter as much, and you can get force regen with the madness tree, so again force management doesn't matter as much there. What else is there to entice people into this tree?

The only reason people play hybrid lightning builds in PvE is for chain lightning/wrath combos (the 13/28 build that is so popular for PvE is entirely based around this). PvP's a little different story as people want some survivability as well, but in a cloth wearing class who can blame them?

Point is, that making these kinds of drastic changes to the lightning tree can't be done without replacing those bottom talents with something else. And that something has to allow lightning to be a viable spec for both PvP and PvE leveling/raiding. What are you going to replace the survivability with? Clearly not other forms of survivability, or else why change things? Are you going to replace it with dmg talents? Because that will just make hybrid builds do more damage off Wrath procs, won't it? You can't replace them with force management talents - that tree already has force management talents on tier 1. Adding more would make no sense, especially for leveling. No one is going to put points into a tree that is just 3 tiers of force management with no survivability or damage talents. Basically you would just be consigning lightning as a tree that people pick up with their extra points once they've already reached max in the other trees and just want some force management help from tier 1.

And for the record, yes I'm a sorcerer. I play 21/2/18 which is mostly a healing spec, but with some damage from madness. Moving things in lightning wouldn't affect me in the least, since I've only got 2 points in that tree. I'm just saying that you can't make sweeping changes without giving them some thought - which after 42 pages, this thread has shown precious little thought indeed.

Its been mentioned a few times, but no one's really discussed it much at length, but changing the lightning tree by moving all these talents up means:

1. the lightning tree needs to be redesigned entirely otherwise it's useless for leveling.

2. the top abilities get moved down in favor of the utility abilities, which makes no sense, and actually makes the tree even stronger for hybrid builds than it is now by giving the current top talents at the bottom tiers.

 

Since I assume 2 is just a stupid idea that no one would honestly entertain, let's look at 1. If we take away things like the 20% buff to the shield and chain lightning and move them higher, what else is there in this tree for someone leveling a sorcerer? Honestly, there's nothing. You can grab the +100 force maybe and 9% reduction to abilities from tier 1, but if there's nothing good above it, who would bother? Force management in PvP isn't as much of an issue at 50 anyways. You can get infinite heals in corruption, so force management doesn't matter as much, and you can get force regen with the madness tree, so again force management doesn't matter as much there. What else is there to entice people into this tree?

 

The only reason people play hybrid lightning builds in PvE is for chain lightning/wrath combos (the 13/28 build that is so popular for PvE is entirely based around this). PvP's a little different story as people want some survivability as well, but in a cloth wearing class who can blame them?

 

Point is, that making these kinds of drastic changes to the lightning tree can't be done without replacing those bottom talents with something else. And that something has to allow lightning to be a viable spec for both PvP and PvE leveling/raiding. What are you going to replace the survivability with? Clearly not other forms of survivability, or else why change things? Are you going to replace it with dmg talents? Because that will just make hybrid builds do more damage off Wrath procs, won't it? You can't replace them with force management talents - that tree already has force management talents on tier 1. Adding more would make no sense, especially for leveling. No one is going to put points into a tree that is just 3 tiers of force management with no survivability or damage talents. Basically you would just be consigning lightning as a tree that people pick up with their extra points once they've already reached max in the other trees and just want some force management help from tier 1.

 

And for the record, yes I'm a sorcerer. I play 21/2/18 which is mostly a healing spec, but with some damage from madness. Moving things in lightning wouldn't affect me in the least, since I've only got 2 points in that tree. I'm just saying that you can't make sweeping changes without giving them some thought - which after 42 pages, this thread has shown precious little thought indeed.

The Sorcerer leveling experience is among the easiest in the game. The only comparable leveling experience is the one Mercenaries experience, which is also notoriously easy. I don't think that they would need to buff their early levels to compensate for these talents being moved up. Early game isn't hard and it isn't balanced around having to have specific talents in a specific tree. It's also not worth sacrificing end game balance for early game balance, which by the way is already absolutely terrible. A pre-50 warzone is in no way even remotely balanced since some classes get their good abilities later on and some get them earlier leading to gross advantages to some and crippling disadvantages to others.

Yes. The trees very much need to be reworked a bit. They wouldn't need to touch any of the actual talents but Bioware would need to move certain talents down while moving others up. This requires thought and care to not cause further imbalance but at present this sort of hybrid CC spec is breaking PvP. You can't just leave something OP just because it would take effort to rebalance.

The fact that Sorcerers are light armor doesn't make much of a difference in survivability. On the contrary their bubble and mobility make them much harder to kill than Bounty Hunters. Their range and escape capability also means that they are far more survivable than most melee. You can't just argue that their 16% damage reduction from armor vs the 24% from medium and the 32% from heavy means they somehow deserve every single utility in the game. The bubble balances it out by itself. A medium armor wearer gets 8% more survivability than a Sorcerer passively. A bubble is at minimum 3.5k and at best 6.5k. With a health pool of ~16k this means that a Sorcerer has a bonus 20%+ effective health assuming just ONE bubble. It's even possible that a pre-casted bubble allows them to use another bubble during a brawl. I don't think the bubble is overpowered but it certainly more than makes up for their light armor.

I'm not asking for a nerf to legitimate specs. I'm asking for an end to the unintended hybrid spec that resulted from poor oversight from the devs. There's a reason they're nerfing the assassin hybrid spec, it's overpowered/difficult to balance without breaking the trees when played as intended.

It seems BioNerf hates melee. The intended buff for Ani Marauders resulted in a nerf. They nerf'd the crap outta Op/Scoundrels. They nerf'd hybrid specs of Assassins/Shadows.

Next in line would be PowerTechs/Vangaurds with their awesome Pyro burst (with or without the hybred spec Carolina Parakeet).

Why Sorcerers aren't getting touched, ever ? Maybe Gabe Thingieleadpvpdesigner is playing one ? Who knows.

I'm rerolling a Sage at the moment so I can piss people off with my uber utility and tools (and throwing peebles is awesomely irritating )

The only problem I have with sorc and sages is the force speed. Needs to be moved to Assassin/Shadow abilities. No other ranged class has a disengage ability like that, it's even on a short cooldown.

I play both classes. Shadows have enough capacity to shut down a sage thank you, or PVP in several situations, without removing force speed, which on 1x1 combat, is on a reasonable CD.

i kinda agree... as a sorc with 3-4 champ pieces and some blue slotted mod gear, i was blowing up full bm players everywhere i went.

if the 31 point talents were worth even a half a ****, there wouldn't be so many hybrids running around.

if the 31 point talents were worth even a half a ****, there wouldn't be so many hybrids running around.

That's one thing I'm also advocating for. I want them to move damage from other abilities to the 31-point talents to make it more attractive to spec fully into a tree. It's disappointing when a 31-point talent is worthless. A 31-point talent should be something you see as your heavy hitter or a move that brings the whole spec together. Currently the Sorcerer DPS 31-point talents seem more like another button to press. Nothing special about them.

Thundering Blast should be an ability that is used for big burst damage(3-4k damage seems about right and currently it's far lower). I propose that some of Chain Lightning's damage be moved to Thundering Blast. Currently Thundering Blast seems like a powerful ability that feels like a big nuke, that's what Thundering Blast needs to be. This would help both PvE and PvP Lightning Sorcerers with their burst capability, which is underwhelming in their so called low mobility and high burst spec.

Creeping Terror is underwhelming and seems to have had it's damage reduced to compensate for the fact that it provides an immobilize. I propose that damage from some other abilities be moved to Creeping Terror while changing the immobilize into a 50% slow instead. This would make it more of a heavy hitter that you use whenever possible instead of a CC you hold on to for utility purposes in PvP. This change would also benefit PvE Sorcerers by making their 31-point talent actually do significant damage.