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11.20.2015 , 12:42 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
Why would we need even more protection against M/R+K/E damage? Juggs are vulnerable to F/T+KE damage and thats why we need shield or absorb. Furthermore I/E damage was increased within the new operations which made Assasin Tanks really valuable for their increased protection against this damage type especially with the old 186 gear. Not to mention PTs with their gread DCD Explosive fuel which increased their chance to resist I/E damage by 30%. Either more shield/absorb or more shielding by sonic barrier/sonic wall otherwise Juggs will fall behind.

Furthermore defense does not do anything in pvp. Keep in mind that pvp setbonus and pve setbonus are the same. Most dmg in pvp is F/T+KE. Thus we need more shield or absorb. Compared to pts or assas Juggs just have the lowest shield and absorb of those classes because most of our skills only increase defense chance. Looking at the new class talents also reveals that ravage now gives us 6% more defense. Wow even more uselessness. This exactly shows how much designers want the jug to be the defense tank, instead of balancing the classes. But without making F/T+K/E defendable with the new addon the changes are going to make the juggernaut the worst tank.

It was made less useful for most pve bosses
Agreed on the need some kind of boost to shield/absorb and/or an enhanced blade/sonic barrier. Also, for the need for that high defense chance to be usable (in some measure..perhaps as just a slight increase to DR vs. those attacks) on F/T+K/E based attacks.

Quote: Originally Posted by Horano_Heresy View Post
Totally agree with this. The class is not overly difficult to play.

I think with the changes brought about to the class in 3.0, Immortal Juggernauts got a decent boost to AoE threat. Crushing Blow in combination with the Aegis Assault buff and our Sweeping Slash attack both hit up to 8 targets, up from 4. Saber Reflect also helps a lot with generating threat on multiple targets. Yes, Powertechs and Assassins still perform better for AoE threat, but I think that's the beauty in playing the class -- it's challenging, but fun.

I think the only issue I have is when targets are spread out, just the affects of being a purely melee class. I find Threatening Scream + Saber Reflect helps in these sort of situations.
Agreed on this as well. I have never really had a problem with threat generation or maintenance. If anything, I accidentally pull off PT's and Assassins rather easily if I am not paying attention to my threat. We can generate threat pretty easily with our rotation.

The taunt bonus from the 4 piece is okay, but it's not very useful for Guardians/Juggernauts who don't need to taunt fluff for threat. Personal opinion is that taunt fluffing shouldn't be necessary at all in ops/FP's/regular play (save for specific fights or phases as an added challenge). The DR bonus from the 2 piece is good..but I would rather it be placed back on Guardian Strike by default (like it used to be) and have that 2 piece bonus replaced with something else (perhaps the Taunt bonus?).

As for the 4 piece, I agree with some of the other posters here that have asked for bringing back the 20-30% shield boost to blade barrier. I have a slightly long winded reason why.

Here is a link to the current tanking stats for optimally geared tanks:

Guardians/Juggernauts are around 50+ points of damage tanked per second behind the others at a minimum. Let's not even go into our dps (we can generate threat really well, but that doesn't mean we hit hard). Part of the reason for this is our reliance on blade barrier and the fact that it's strength hasn't been keeping up with the damage output in raids. Also, our shield/absorb, as mentioned before, is much lower compared to the other tanks.
Think link here is to the predictions for each tank's possible DTPS with time. Guardians primarily slip behind due to blade barrier being so integral to our rotation and its strength not scaling. Note, this link has not been updated for 4.0, so look at the first link I posted for the 4.0 stats.

Re-changing how the class tanks is not going to happen, and if anything it is not entirely necessary. However, if we are going to have to tank a certain way (Blade barrier+heavy defense), we'll need some boosts in either passive abilities or set bonuses to keep up with the others so that we're still AS raid viable as the other tanks (we are raid viable at present, it's just better to bring the others).
My suggestion is to either bring back the 20% bonus to blade barrier, have some ability provide a buff that will increase the next blade barrier's effectiveness (which will indirectly provide an increased barrier), or provides a direct bonus to our force healing (which also empowers our Focused Defense).

Just my two cents.