Okay, so this may sound like a snarky question, but I honestly don't know the answer to this and am asking in good faith.

 

Given that your expertise is showing as 109, I would think this screenshot does not show a valid study of one set of mods as compared to another. Would the almost complete lack of bolster not skew the data?

 

My thought on this (and again, this is from someone who doesn't really know this system very well) would be that the best set of data would be to see how those three lightsabers stack up when you're sitting at 2018 Expertise.

 

I honestly have no idea and i'm not really trying to argue anything, just putting forward the question of whether or not the proposed combination of mods would be better.

 

From what i gathered, your "Item Level Totals" needed to be <459 in order to get the full effect of bolster, so I questioned if there was a better combination of Hilt/Mod/Enh in your MH/OH since i thought Base Damage wouldn't get adjusted by Bolster? I mean looking at the original screenshots for the Rakata / Campaign / Obroan, they still seem to have the original Base Damage values from their respective tiers (140 / 146 / 158). Although I do see now that whilst the Weapon Tooltip hasn't changed, the Stats in the main window have.

 

I've probably done less PvP in the game compared to anyone else posting in this forum, so if i'm misunderstanding something then feel free to tell me.

 

The problem is that if you can't go by the base stats on the actual gear, then I have no way of comparing since my PvP gear set was made before I had read this thread and thus, horribly unoptimized and will have much less Power/Surge w.e. that would affect the Pri. Damage in the Main Window.

I honestly have no idea and i'm not really trying to argue anything, just putting forward the question of whether or not the proposed combination of mods would be better.

 

From what i gathered, your "Item Level Totals" needed to be <459 in order to get the full effect of bolster, so I questioned if there was a better combination of Hilt/Mod/Enh in your MH/OH since i thought Base Damage wouldn't get adjusted by Bolster? I mean looking at the original screenshots for the Rakata / Campaign / Obroan, they still seem to have the original Base Damage values from their respective tiers (140 / 146 / 158). Although I do see now that whilst the Weapon Tooltip hasn't changed, the Stats in the main window have.

 

I've probably done less PvP in the game compared to anyone else posting in this forum, so if i'm misunderstanding something then feel free to tell me.

 

The problem is that if you can't go by the base stats on the actual gear, then I have no way of comparing since my PvP gear set was made before I had read this thread and thus, horribly unoptimized and will have much less Power/Surge w.e. that would affect the Pri. Damage in the Main Window.

 

And upon checking just now in a Warzone, having the 72/61/58 Offhand fails to give the full amount of Expertise to make up 2018 (where as 69/63/61 does), so I guess the entire point is null now.

I honestly have no idea and i'm not really trying to argue anything, just putting forward the question of whether or not the proposed combination of mods would be better.

 

From what i gathered, your "Item Level Totals" needed to be <459 in order to get the full effect of bolster, so I questioned if there was a better combination of Hilt/Mod/Enh in your MH/OH since i thought Base Damage wouldn't get adjusted by Bolster? I mean looking at the original screenshots for the Rakata / Campaign / Obroan, they still seem to have the original Base Damage values from their respective tiers (140 / 146 / 158). Although I do see now that whilst the Weapon Tooltip hasn't changed, the Stats in the main window have.

 

I've probably done less PvP in the game compared to anyone else posting in this forum, so if i'm misunderstanding something then feel free to tell me.

 

The problem is that if you can't go by the base stats on the actual gear, then I have no way of comparing since my PvP gear set was made before I had read this thread and thus, horribly unoptimized and will have much less Power/Surge w.e. that would affect the Pri. Damage in the Main Window.

 

Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons we all tend to go off of what Randle has to say on the subject. What's even worse is that the tool tips don't seem to be 100% accurate. From what I recall, he posted about 46 blue mods showing as providing more damage than BiS PvP gear (I thiink?), but in actual practice, his damage was lower?

 

Totally pulling that out of my ***, as my memory is really bad, though. Randle, can you confirm? I don't seem to be able to find the specific post where you mentioned that.

 

And upon checking just now in a Warzone, having the 72/61/58 Offhand fails to give the full amount of Expertise to make up 2018 (where as 69/63/61 does), so I guess the entire point is null now.

 

Honestly, all of this seriously makes me want to get 15 people together, queue for warzones, and spend the entire time just swapping gear out, taking screenshots, and occasionally testing things out.

Hey guys,

I just checked that if you have in a gear piece at least 1 mod (means either armoring/mod or enhnc) 72/78 rating you don't get full expertise. Even if ILT (Item Level Totals ) is less than 459, even without any other mods/crystal in it/ 13lvl mods.

Therefore the definition of getting expertise cap with PVE item should be: ILT must be equal 459 or less AND piece cannot contain any mods with rating 72+ (168).

 

Edit: in off-hand with 180 armoring i lost 109 expertise (68 from armoring and additional 41 from crystal/mod/enhancement). Gain of bonus damage/healing compared to my 69/58/63 mix wasn't really worth it.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Tristael

Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons we all tend to go off of what Randle has to say on the subject. What's even worse is that the tool tips don't seem to be 100% accurate. From what I recall, he posted about 46 blue mods showing as providing more damage than BiS PvP gear (I thiink?), but in actual practice, his damage was lower?

 

I thought the problem was that 46 blue mods gave better force/tech bonus damage but worse weapon damage so that these would be BiS for say, a sage/sorce, but not for a marksman sniper (who has a lot of weapon damage).

 

Trying to use combat logs to compare gear seems like a dicey proposition since you are likely to not have the same opponent (assuming he is geared identically for both WZs) to compare your change against.

I thought the problem was that 46 blue mods gave better force/tech bonus damage but worse weapon damage so that these would be BiS for say, a sage/sorce, but not for a marksman sniper (who has a lot of weapon damage).

 

Trying to use combat logs to compare gear seems like a dicey proposition since you are likely to not have the same opponent (assuming he is geared identically for both WZs) to compare your change against.

 

I'm afraid I couldn't tell you. While I remember the substance of what he said (I think), I don't recall the exact details. The thing I took away from it was that I needed to just concentrate on PvP gear for a while. I do seem to recall, though, that he tested this out with a friend, so all the data he had was under the same circumstances, against the same opponent/gear/etc., repeated.

I thought the problem was that 46 blue mods gave better force/tech bonus damage but worse weapon damage so that these would be BiS for say, a sage/sorce, but not for a marksman sniper (who has a lot of weapon damage).

 

Trying to use combat logs to compare gear seems like a dicey proposition since you are likely to not have the same opponent (assuming he is geared identically for both WZs) to compare your change against.

This is correct. The "exploit" does buff your bonus damage for force/tech and bonus damage for melee slightly, but if you a class with weapon based damage, the exploit pieces lower it significantly.

 

Weapon based damage is a part of the "how strong is the white attack" formula, and it appears bolster has no affect of that. This is one of the many reasons why I raise a serious eyebrow at players claiming lowbie is more balanced. Your attacks are 20% better at the top of the bracket for this reason alone...

Hey guys,

I just checked that if you have in a gear piece at least 1 mod (means either armoring/mod or enhnc) 72/78 rating you don't get full expertise. Even if ILT (Item Level Totals ) is less than 459, even without any other mods/crystal in it/ 13lvl mods.

Therefore the definition of getting expertise cap with PVE item should be: ILT must be equal 459 or less AND piece cannot contain any mods with rating 72+ (168).

 

Edit: in off-hand with 180 armoring i didn't get expertise only from that armoring and power crystal (109), I will soon update my post and upload ss so everyone can do math.

 

Good work. I will edit the front page tonight.

This is correct. The "exploit" does buff your bonus damage for force/tech and bonus damage for melee slightly, but if you a class with weapon based damage, the exploit pieces lower it significantly.

 

Weapon based damage is a part of the "how strong is the white attack" formula, and it appears bolster has no affect of that. This is one of the many reasons why I raise a serious eyebrow at players claiming lowbie is more balanced. Your attacks are 20% better at the top of the bracket for this reason alone...

 

Does using blue 46s lower your weapon based only if the mods are in your MH? That is, would blue 46s in your OH still be BiS for a weapon damage based class?

Does using blue 46s lower your weapon based only if the mods are in your MH? That is, would blue 46s in your OH still be BiS for a weapon damage based class?

 

Since I have been making most of my comparisons on my Mara, I can't say with 100% accuracy, BUT.. the basis is still the same. Even if you have a Shield/Power generator I don't think the gain will be that much to warrant worrying about it. Just about any combo works on these two slots...

So my 69-66-58 works for both MH and OH I'm pretty happy with them.

Hey guys, just wondering which is better to use. I'm using blue 66s for my armor pieces right now, are the purple 58s better? Tia!

Hey guys, just wondering which is better to use. I'm using blue 66s for my armor pieces right now, are the purple 58s better? Tia!

 

Remember, the point of this thread is that bolster doesn't differentiate between those to pieces. Either is favorable, unless you have the Obroan equivalent( MH/OH, excluded). The only difference is in secondary stats, but those to pieces are like one point higher on the blue 66. It's nothing to be concerned about. If you already have it, wear it.

Randle, do you know if there is a difference between 69/66/58 and 69/58/66? Wouldn't you want the enhancements to be secondary level since, to my understanding, the secondary mods (power, surge etc) are not bolstered but mainstat/end are?

 

It would be nice to see a breakdown of how bolster treats those stats individually.

 

Thanks!

Randle, do you know if there is a difference between 69/66/58 and 69/58/66? Wouldn't you want the enhancements to be secondary level since, to my understanding, the secondary mods (power, surge etc) are not bolstered but mainstat/end are?

 

It would be nice to see a breakdown of how bolster treats those stats individually.

 

Thanks!

Which ever has the higher power stat. I don't know off hand, but since the 66 doesn't have a power heavy one the other might ne more favorable, but at the end the difference is pretty minor as we are already well past the DR on most applicable secondary stats..

So i tried the 46 mods today. My numbers on the scoreboard did improve. But i get this feeling (i know it's weird) like i'm doing less damage (but i see bigger numbers). People are dying faster with obroan mods but i see smaller numbers in game and on the scoreboard. I play my sorc for over 2 years and i think i can tell something is wrong with that bolster.

 

My conlusion is that bolster works "under the hood" if you have obroan/conqueror mods equipped + expertise crystals ofc. Some of you said that and probably have same conclusions.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Givemedanger

Been away for a bit and like many of us, really hated the thought of going through the PVP gear grind., but with the info presented in this thread and the thoughtful discussion and testing that has been done, I am now immediately back into PVP-ing and doing well I might add.

 

I want to thank the OP and everybody that participated in testing out various options.

IMO this is the best PVP thread in the forums and should be stickied.

 

Thx

Shinigami

Harbinger

Not sure where else to ask this, so I thought I'd try here. I've been away from the game for 5 months now, so I'm trying to read up on the changes to pvp.

 

I wanted to play my guardian in defense spec in pvp. Here are my three questions:

 

1. In some places in the pvp forum here, people say 46/46/46 blues are better than the 69/63/61 purples combo. Is this true?

 

2. I've also read that shield/absorb face a harsh DR and defense is mostly useless. So, for any tanking class, is it better to just skip all defense/shield/absorb and stack main stat and endurance?

 

3. If you go 46/46/46 blues or 69/63/61 purples, what ear/implant is allowed?

Not sure where else to ask this, so I thought I'd try here. I've been away from the game for 5 months now, so I'm trying to read up on the changes to pvp.

 

I wanted to play my guardian in defense spec in pvp. Here are my three questions:

 

1. In some places in the pvp forum here, people say 46/46/46 blues are better than the 69/63/61 purples combo. Is this true?

Combat Team says mathematically the blues are BiS right now, but I am still not convinced.

 

2. I've also read that shield/absorb face a harsh DR and defense is mostly useless. So, for any tanking class, is it better to just skip all defense/shield/absorb and stack main stat and endurance?

Stack END. Shield/Absorb is not very useful with all the crits in PvP, and Defense is a joke.

 

3. If you go 46/46/46 blues or 69/63/61 purples, what ear/implant is allowed?

 

Use the ones I posted on the OP or blue version of those for Tanks

In red...

Edited February 22, 2014 by L-RANDLE

Okay, so I spent a while playing around with different armorings/mods and these are the results that I got. Now note that I read the numbers of the character sheet after bolster. I don't know how reflective this is of the actual damage. Although I 'felt' while playing that it was quite reflective. This was done on on an Assassin playing deception spec. My base was a full conqueror set with an Obroan main hand, and 2 Obroan relics along with 13 gear augmented (missing one). In my experiment I played around with my wrist, belt, headpiece, mainhand and offhand. Here are various combinations. No stims were used.

 

Experiment 1:

Base test. All conqueror with 2 Obroan relic and Obroan mainhand.

Willpower: 2158

Bonus Melee Damage: 698.6

Bonus Force Damage: 1091.2 (This may be lower then expected as my headpiece had alacrity, what came with conqueror)

Crit: 22.31

Crit Bonus (surge): 75.09

 

Experiment 2:

46/46/46 blue on Headpiece, wrist, belt, MH, OH. The rest of the pieces were unchanged and still had the same conqueror pieces. Still using 2 obroan relic.

Willpower: 2165

Bonus Melee Damage: (Forgot to check)

Bonus Force Damage: 1255

Crit: 22.63

Crit Bonus (surge): 75.35

 

Experiment 3:

head/wrist/waist - All 58 purp.

Mainhand - 66/69/58

Offhand - 69/61/58

Willpower - 2098

Bonus Melee - 725.9

Bonus Force Damage - 1254

Crit: 21.32

Crit Bonus (surge): 75.55

 

Experiment 4:

wrist/waist/MH/OF - All 46 Blue

Head: - 61/61/61 purp.

Willpower: 2174

Bonus Melee: 733.0

Bonus Force: 1261.8

Crit: 22.99

Crit Bonus (surge): 75.63

 

For me this last combination worked the best. I also tried replacing single enhancements from 46 blue -> 61 purp for wrist and OH from Experiment 4 but that did worse. I also tried a full 46 gear (even replacing chest/hand/leg/feet), but that also made it worse. I encourage people to try out different scenarios and see what they get and figure out what's best. It's possible that I did not stumble upon the best combination yet. I will try some other combinations later to see if I can improve on it.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Akushii

Just so I'm understanding this:

 

In my Conq MH/OH replace the barrel/mod/enh. For my partisan pieces, rip out the mods and replace them as well so long as in a bolster area I'm at 2018. Right now I'm 2018 capped in my gear.

 

My partisan pieces (everything else is conq):

Head

Gloves

Belt

 

Relic is Conq SA and Obroan Focused Retribution. All gear is augmented. HP is 29620.

 

So, should I modify my partisan pieces and mh/oh, or am I OK? I'd like to start doing ranked, but I don't want to be "that guy", ya know?

After reading this thread I come to the conclusion that 69 63 61 combo is the best. Please direct me other wise if I am wrong. Now do I put these 69 63 and 61s on all of adaptive armor and adaptive weapons or should they go on specific gear. Im a powertech ap bounty hunter.. what should I put on the gear that has only two open modification slots such as belt and wrists?

After reading this thread I come to the conclusion that 69 63 61 combo is the best. Please direct me other wise if I am wrong.

 

It actually depends on the character. For many (most?) characters the 69/63/61 is BiS. Not for all. You will need to test it on your toon. Moreover there are many, many other bolster exploits in the game that are not listed here. Depending on your class, output a full 30% higher than from full Obroan is achievable. You just have to test different combinations. They will never eliminate all the loopholes in their bolster code.

Hi guys, kind of a newbie writing here. First, many thanks to everyone who has already tested and put some useful info on this mess of a feature here in the forums. Even though Ive read through many pages here and in the other thread, it is still very confusing to me.

 

My question is simple - Id like to have the conqueror survivor pvp set for my sintank, just cause of the looks.

 

What is the best way to exploit this bolster system for me then? Do I get a full set, conq relics, augment everything I can and replace all armorings/mods/enh. with PVE purple 58-61(63) ones?(use blue 66 for augments as it will suffice and not be affected by bolster anyway) Would it work like this? Can I then use this pvp gear and use the bolster exploit at the same time? Or, simply put, I choose any orange PVE gear that I like and make it my WZs "PVP" gear by using the beforementioned mods/enh,..? (and pve relics?). Im so confused as to what can be combined and cannot be in order to achieve the best stats. ..also .. you do need another gear for FPs and Ops , where using the best mods (78) etc doesnt hurt your stats in any way, right? (considering u use proper things for your class ofc). Oh, and EXP is then viable only for OW PVP?

Edited February 26, 2014 by Wuadu

Anyone able to craft the 63 mods on The Harbinger (republic)? Would like to try the 69/63/61 build. Advanced Deft Mod 27. Really hard to find, outside of getting a drop in Explosive Conflict.