Im talking about same HoT as sages have.

Feel free to tell me im wrong and why im wrong

:ph_thank_you:

I would love to see an independently casted HoT, purely because it would make my healing easier . However I don't particularly feel that we need it. Commando's are primarily a single target healer (Aka tank healer, even though we can heal any target), and so the situational HoTs that we do have (The proc from AMP, Trauma Probe and Kolto Pods) are generally always ticking on a specific player. With exception to trauma probe (and Kolto bomb thrown onto a group larger than 4 players), the HoTs that we have are inextricably linked to other healing abilities which are used relatively frequently throughout a sustainable healing phase, which means they have a good relative uptime (I use AMP on cool down, whether it will over heal or not purely for the armour buff and the HoT). Giving us an independently casted HoT sets us further on the path of potential group healing, which doesn't synergise with our current skillset.

In addition to everything I just said, Hammer Shot is a beautiful HoT that has very short uptime and must be refreshed every GCD. I personally feel that an independently casted HoT is not warranted with our current healing style and skills.

Not the best worded argument I am sorry, I could claim that English isn't my first language, but it is and I wrestle with it every day

I'd like to see Kolto Missile have a chance to make your next Rapid Scan be an instant cast. The class is too reliant on having your shield up to be able to cast your single target heals. And it's hard to argue that the class doesn't need a boost to be competitive with the other two healing classes.

the only thing the healing spec lacks is a reliable way to self heal himself cheaply. Something like getting a copy of trauma probe on yourself, using hammer shot on yourself or something like the TF2 medic heal: you get a feedback heal when healing somebody else (I guess hammer shot would be the target for this).

Beside that, I think they're quite fine. The AoE heal is not all that bad either, most new content requires you to stay fairly spread out so the low CD on kolto bomb is actually better than the longer one on kolto cloud (though ofc scoundrels have other tools).

Kolto bomb has a HoT on it for unlimited number of players who stand in kolto cloud (area of effect is bigger that target circle). EXCELLENT heal! Throw it on every CD.

Trauma probe is a "reactive" HoT that s great for throwing on the tank who has agro.

Hammer shot (green beam) is a HoT. While it is not a "fire and forget" HoT it is VERY good, costs no ammo, tics quickly and is our "standard" heal in rotation when not casting the big heals. I'm in 69s and now hitting HS for 325ish and criting for 610. Spam it all day long!

The bulk of my healing is done with hammershot, kolto bomb, trauma probe, and bacta infusion. Only need to bring out AMP and MP when burst healing is needed. Never have ammo problems.

We have no NEED for another HoT. Commandos are excellent healers in PVE.

I ran S&V last night with guild and was parsing over 2600 HPS for all fights and did over 13 million total heals (all bosses 1 shoted except last boss took 2 tries) I was even DPSing a lot during many fights. That is on par with any other healing class. Adding another HoT would truly make commando combat medic OP.

PvP, they just need to "hide" green beam and change our healing animation then CMs would be putting up much better numbers consistantly. fact is CMs are easiest healers to spot in WZs, but they are still viable healers if well played.

the only thing the healing spec lacks is a reliable way to self heal himself cheaply. Something like getting a copy of trauma probe on yourself, using hammer shot on yourself or something like the TF2 medic heal: you get a feedback heal when healing somebody else (I guess hammer shot would be the target for this).

 

Beside that, I think they're quite fine.

I totally agree, being able to self heal with HS would be a welcome change. Smugglers can self heal with their free cast diagnostic scan so why shouldn't we be able to?

Although, it would make us hell to kill in PVP if we could run around self healing with HS, might be kinda nice!

I totally agree, being able to self heal with HS would be a welcome change. Smugglers can self heal with their free cast diagnostic scan so why shouldn't we be able to?

There is a difference there, it's channeled and can't be used on the move. A better example would probably be force mend of the sages, but that's mostly used to offset the noble sacrifice health cost. In the end direct skill comparison is hard to do, but unless we want to blow a long, emergency, cd on us, we basically have to spam kolto bomb on our feet (or use traditional healing like all healers). Both sages and scoundrels have easier ways to deal with

There is a difference there, it's channeled and can't be used on the move. A better example would probably be force mend of the sages, but that's mostly used to offset the noble sacrifice health cost. In the end direct skill comparison is hard to do, but unless we want to blow a long, emergency, cd on us, we basically have to spam kolto bomb on our feet (or use traditional healing like all healers). Both sages and scoundrels have easier ways to deal with

Ya, I play both. There is a difference but it is essentially the same type of skill except one is reverse cast and one is still castable on the move. They are still both free cast single target hots. That's why in PVP a free, *mobile* self heal would make The commando very tough to kill.

Ya, I play both. There is a difference but it is essentially the same type of skill except one is reverse cast and one is still castable on the move. They are still both free cast single target hots. That's why in PVP a free, *mobile* self heal would make The commando very tough to kill.

Well, given what I've seen sorcs and scoundrels do, I'm not sure it would be that big of a problem

Kolto bomb has a HoT on it for unlimited number of players who stand in kolto cloud (area of effect is bigger that target circle). EXCELLENT heal! Throw it on every CD.

Sorry I couldn't help myself, Please don't throw it on every CD if you are healing an operation, You only need to throw it once every 15 seconds on the tank, and once at the beginning and at the end of supercharged cells to maximise uptime on charged barrier. This is all provided that your role in an operation is single target heals, if you are on group healing duty then you probably shouldn't be playing a commando .

In response to people discussing the commandos getting a self heal/chance to proc an instant heal, commandos are a casting healer, so we need to stand still cast our heals effectively, but we have a few ways to throw out some instant heals. In pvp, you can throw trauma probe onto yourself to help mitigate some damage, you have an instant heal (BI) on an 18s CD, you have your instant kolto bomb on a 6s CD and then you can pop Reserve Powercell + Tech Override together and get a free, instant AMP or MP. I think a self heal combined with our current healing abilities is unwarranted.

Also, the complaint about the green beam in pvp. The other team will notice that you are a combat medic the first time they target you and see the cell. Embrace the green beam and use it to peel people off and laugh at them while you sit there and heal yourself, become relatively invinciible for the best part of 20 seconds while you pop: Reactive Shield and heal, then pop Adrenaline rush + Hold the line and keep healing. As a commando healer you should be able to withstand a two people beating on you for a quite a while if you have all your cooldowns up and ready.

The point is, you have a big green beam that marks you out as a healer, the other team had to find out sometime, suck it up

Sorry I couldn't help myself, Please don't throw it on every CD if you are healing an operation, You only need to throw it once every 15 seconds on the tank, and once at the beginning and at the end of supercharged cells to maximise uptime on charged barrier. This is all provided that your role in an operation is single target heals, if you are on group healing duty then you probably shouldn't be playing a commando .

This makes no sense! KB is a short CD, cheap AOE quick heal with an added HoT and 5% heal buff with residue. *Only* casting it on the tank every 15sec is such a waste and lowers your healing output. It should be thrown as the tank, melee, ranged, self, anywhere there is a small cluster of teammates at every cool down. While we don't have the same massive HOT that sages do, KB is the next best thing having a nice area of effect, instant cast and instantly heals upfront not to mention the newly added HoT. I see no reason to be stingy with this skill at all.

Furthermore while commandos ARE the best single target healers, simply relegating them to that role is nonsense. The fact is a well played commando has no trouble healing a group and in ops it is not the tank that only needs heals. While some groups in ops may prefer to assign healing responsibilities to say that commandos role should be single target heals only is short sighted and not fully utilizing the commando's potential.

If utilizing ALL the skills at your disposal as a commando (in a good rotation) then you should have no problem healing the tank AND the group.

This makes no sense! KB is a short CD, cheap AOE quick heal with an added HoT and 5% heal buff with residue. *Only* casting it on the tank every 15sec is such a waste and lowers your healing output. It should be thrown as the tank, melee, ranged, self, anywhere there is a small cluster of teammates at every cool down. While we don't have the same massive HOT that sages do, KB is the next best thing having a nice area of effect, instant cast and instantly heals upfront not to mention the newly added HoT. I see no reason to be stingy with this skill at all.

I think you are confusing overall healing output, with useful healing output. Kolto Bomb costs 16 ammo cells and heals for around 2000-2500 on the main heal, and then around 1000 (Being very generous) on the HoT (This is assuming no crit). The main heal is applied to a maximum of 4 targets and the HoT is applied to an unlimited number of people (Including Kolto Residue). So if you have 4 people stacked up all together it heals for around 15000 if everyone sticks around for the full duration. However a commando is assigned to healing the tanks 99% of the time, and this means that the majority of your healing should be directed towards the tanks. Which is generally one target. So using an aoe heal like Kolto Bomb will only provide a max of about 3.5k healing done on the tank (Again assuming no crits) whereas Advanced Medical Probe, which takes roughly 1.2s to cast, is on a 7.5s CD (With the set bonus) costs 16 ammo cells and applies a 10% increase to armor along with a HoT (That ticks for more than the Kolto Bomb HoT), will quite happily heal for around 4.5-5.5k (Without critting). This is for the same ammo cost (and is actually at a reduced ammo cost because of the ammo cells regenerated whilst casting). I can go through and list how Medical Probe and Bacta Infusion are better single target healing abilities than Kolto Bomb but I think you get the point that if you are using AoE healing abilities when only one player is taking constant damage, then you are wasting your resources.

Furthermore while commandos ARE the best single target healers, simply relegating them to that role is nonsense. The fact is a well played commando has no trouble healing a group and in ops it is not the tank that only needs heals. While some groups in ops may prefer to assign healing responsibilities to say that commandos role should be single target heals only is short sighted and not fully utilizing the commando's potential.

If utilizing ALL the skills at your disposal as a commando (in a good rotation) then you should have no problem healing the tank AND the group.

Unless if you take two commandos into a raid, then your other healing parter (scoundrel or sage) will be much better at group healing than commandos. It is known, and you can verify this by looking at your tooltips, that commandos have weak group healing abilities compared to sages and scoundrels, but have better single target healing abilities, so why would you play the commando to it's weakness?

I think you are confusing overall healing output, with useful healing output. Kolto Bomb costs 16 ammo cells and heals for around 2000-2500 on the main heal, and then around 1000 (Being very generous) on the HoT (This is assuming no crit). The main heal is applied to a maximum of 4 targets and the HoT is applied to an unlimited number of people (Including Kolto Residue). So if you have 4 people stacked up all together it heals for around 15000 if everyone sticks around for the full duration. However a commando is assigned to healing the tanks 99% of the time, and this means that the majority of your healing should be directed towards the tanks. Which is generally one target. So using an aoe heal like Kolto Bomb will only provide a max of about 3.5k healing done on the tank (Again assuming no crits) whereas Advanced Medical Probe, which takes roughly 1.2s to cast, is on a 7.5s CD (With the set bonus) costs 16 ammo cells and applies a 10% increase to armor along with a HoT (That ticks for more than the Kolto Bomb HoT), will quite happily heal for around 4.5-5.5k (Without critting). This is for the same ammo cost (and is actually at a reduced ammo cost because of the ammo cells regenerated whilst casting). I can go through and list how Medical Probe and Bacta Infusion are better single target healing abilities than Kolto Bomb but I think you get the point that if you are using AoE healing abilities when only one player is taking constant damage, then you are wasting your resources.

 

 

 

Unless if you take two commandos into a raid, then your other healing parter (scoundrel or sage) will be much better at group healing than commandos. It is known, and you can verify this by looking at your tooltips, that commandos have weak group healing abilities compared to sages and scoundrels, but have better single target healing abilities, so why would you play the commando to it's weakness?

I'm not confusing any thing and if you are using your KB on *only* your tank (as you stated in a previous post) than you are wasting KB. From your own math example 15000 hp heal (under ideal circumstances), or even lets say half of that, for 16 ammo and instant cast is still a great value heal. KB has a very short cool down and we and cast it more often than other classes can cast their AoE heals so in the end the healing done is not that far off. My KB is hitting often for over 3500 and the hot does more than 1k. Yes I agree the hot on KB is small but on 3+ raid members it starts adding up over the course of the fight. KB is commandos version of a group heal, but the fact that it is low ammo cost, instant cast, and low CD make it very effective for healing the group *if you know how to use it*.

Yes Trauma probe is the way to go on the tank. That's what I use it for. I even switch it to the tank that currently has agro. But I still throw out KB at almost every cool down on 2 or more raid members that are not full health. Usually this is on myself and RDPs or tank/melee clusters.

The problem is people like to pigeonhole commandos as "single target" healers (which yes, we are excellent at) but if you can only heal 1 target as a healer on a raid the you are useless. While we don't have the same hots/ group heals as sage/scoundrel but we still have an excellent group heal (KB) and our own HoT type skills (HS & TP). Simply relegating a commando to "healing the tank 99% of the time" is a waste of the commandos full potential. We are still *capable* group healers IN ADDITION to single target burst healing.

I think your guild utilizes it's healing classes different and that's OK and you have a different style of play and that's ok too, but I *really* think you are selling the Commando, and KB for that matter, short.

If you make effective use of HS, KB, TP, & BI, then you will have TONs of ammo and using AMP and MP wil become less of a necessity and will always be there ready to go for when that burst healing is needed.

Feel free to hold back on your KB, but I for one throw that green goo around every chance I get.

Sorry I couldn't help myself, Please don't throw it on every CD if you are healing an operation, You only need to throw it once every 15 seconds on the tank, and once at the beginning and at the end of supercharged cells to maximise uptime on charged barrier. This is all provided that your role in an operation is single target heals, if you are on group healing duty then you probably shouldn't be playing a commando .

 

uh, how did you learn everything wrong?

You shouldn't just be using KB on the tank every 15 seconds in an 8 or a 16man raid. You rotate it, once on the tank/melee, once on the ranged/healers if you're in an 8man and on 16man you always keep it on cd because there's always going to be raid damage you have no excuse not to help out healing through, regardless of being a tank healer or not. You can't afford to waste a heal that has no max target limit and also increases the entire raid's healing recieved.

uh, how did you learn everything wrong?

You shouldn't just be using KB on the tank every 15 seconds in an 8 or a 16man raid. You rotate it, once on the tank/melee, once on the ranged/healers if you're in an 8man and on 16man you always keep it on cd because there's always going to be raid damage you have no excuse not to help out healing through, regardless of being a tank healer or not. You can't afford to waste a heal that has no max target limit and also increases the entire raid's healing recieved.

In that case it must just be my team's choice of healing strategies. Because in the Kephess fight of EC NiM (4/4 8-man 3/4 16-man) we had one tank take all the trenchcutters, while the other tank took care of the warriors, and I can tell you right now, that if I were to be using kolto bomb and rotating it through as you suggested, the tank handling the trenchcutters would die. I'm not sure what strategy you use in EC NiM, but my job was to look after the two tanks while the sage looked after everyone else. Then after Keph hops down and starts his slashing spree, if I were to be helping out the sage by throwing kolto bomb on everyone that I could on CD, then the tank would die. But again, that is my team's healing strategy of having a single target healer on single targets and a group healer, healing the group of dps and healers, I know that some teams assign one healer 3 other people (1 tank and 2 dps) which would justify using kolto bomb on CD, but in fights that don't require a strict split of 2 groups I think that strategy is inefficient imo.

Meh, Merc/Commando is lagging only slightly behind the other two healing subclasses in PvE. It is in PvP where it is lacking. No top ranked team would bring a Merc/Commando healer rather than a Sorc & Operative of the same player skill level.

And if we want to boost Merc/Commando healing for PvP and not so much PvE, then the place to focus is on making certain cast abilities instant. The whole reason that Op healers are the king of the hill is that when crunch time comes all their healing is instant and costs no resources. Think about that. INSTANT. AND. NO RESOURCES. Giving Merc/Commando healers a small slice of that same pie is surely warranted.

com had big fast heals > now the lowest single target heals

has truma probe for preventitive damage, can only be cast on one person - useless in pvp because they die in 4 seconds > sages have bubble, scound have unlimited hots since the cost is now cheaper then the gcd regen

best single target burst healing > what every 18 seconds? and burst healing is 100% reliant on crits, which even with 700 rating these days is below 35% on tech > sages have more auto crits then a nuke, scoundrals can litterally heal everyone forever and if they ever **** up, instantly back to a regenable energy with there free heal which does double the healing of hammer shot

heals on the run game changing? how will healing yourself for 1k while hitting htl matter with a double smash?

kolto bomb great aoe heals? woo cept it takes 18 seconds and 3 gcds to do the same as 1 sage aoe

adv probe woo armor buff and all .. wait everyone gets that, prventive medicine? totals 10k in a 6 minute fight? mostly over heals? sage's basically the same cept its a instant crit if used with the weak heal, scoundrals just plain better.

med probe? 1.8 second cast IF you have a decent amount of alacrity, been getting 8-9k crits wooo

word is sages can crit for up to 15k

we litterally have only one thing up on the other clasees, we have 15 seconds of tank every 2 minutes but uninteruptable also means nothing if you get stunned and this is swtor isnt it?

off dps WEAKEST of the 3

why play com heals in anything when scound and sage are better, its for the nestalgic and for those that dont have the better option avialible,

only things that can save it are make t probe on more then 1 person, give it a 10k critting self heal like sages and kolto bomb has a 100% chance to make the next kolto bomb off the gcd

com had big fast heals > now the lowest single target heals

 

has truma probe for preventitive damage, can only be cast on one person - useless in pvp because they die in 4 seconds > sages have bubble, scound have unlimited hots since the cost is now cheaper then the gcd regen

 

best single target burst healing > what every 18 seconds? and burst healing is 100% reliant on crits, which even with 700 rating these days is below 35% on tech > sages have more auto crits then a nuke, scoundrals can litterally heal everyone forever and if they ever **** up, instantly back to a regenable energy with there free heal which does double the healing of hammer shot

 

heals on the run game changing? how will healing yourself for 1k while hitting htl matter with a double smash?

 

kolto bomb great aoe heals? woo cept it takes 18 seconds and 3 gcds to do the same as 1 sage aoe

 

adv probe woo armor buff and all .. wait everyone gets that, prventive medicine? totals 10k in a 6 minute fight? mostly over heals? sage's basically the same cept its a instant crit if used with the weak heal, scoundrals just plain better.

 

med probe? 1.8 second cast IF you have a decent amount of alacrity, been getting 8-9k crits wooo

word is sages can crit for up to 15k

 

we litterally have only one thing up on the other clasees, we have 15 seconds of tank every 2 minutes but uninteruptable also means nothing if you get stunned and this is swtor isnt it?

 

off dps WEAKEST of the 3

 

why play com heals in anything when scound and sage are better, its for the nestalgic and for those that dont have the better option avialible,

 

only things that can save it are make t probe on more then 1 person, give it a 10k critting self heal like sages and kolto bomb has a 100% chance to make the next kolto bomb off the gcd

My response.

as an actual response to the topic, i don't think the OP is 'wrong' but rather hasn't made any compelling case (or any semblance of a case really) as to why we need a HoT

it's like asking for stances for smugglers or sages on the basis that they don't have them like other classes.

adding something for sake of adding it i don't really agree with, but if it can fit into the class, provide something meaningful that is otherwise missing or necessary, then yes, i'm all for it.

In that case it must just be my team's choice of healing strategies. Because in the Kephess fight of EC NiM (4/4 8-man 3/4 16-man) we had one tank take all the trenchcutters, while the other tank took care of the warriors, and I can tell you right now, that if I were to be using kolto bomb and rotating it through as you suggested, the tank handling the trenchcutters would die. I'm not sure what strategy you use in EC NiM, but my job was to look after the two tanks while the sage looked after everyone else. Then after Keph hops down and starts his slashing spree, if I were to be helping out the sage by throwing kolto bomb on everyone that I could on CD, then the tank would die. But again, that is my team's healing strategy of having a single target healer on single targets and a group healer, healing the group of dps and healers, I know that some teams assign one healer 3 other people (1 tank and 2 dps) which would justify using kolto bomb on CD, but in fights that don't require a strict split of 2 groups I think that strategy is inefficient imo.

Clearly I'm talking about post 2.0. Things were a little different before 2.0 as a whole and even more different for certain fights, I was speaking generally.

Simply put I would love to see a HoT, but it isn't in the classes design and desired play style to have one. Paladins never had a HoT as long as I played WoW and they were still excellent. Spam KG like its going out of style.

As far as PvP goes I think the easiest way to increase our classes raid utility and actually give us a serious look on good Rated teams would have been a 4-piece set bonus for reduced BI and KG cool down. That, along with increasing KG's +healing for all within its radius(more than its current amount) would make us great compliments to sage/op healers. It keeps the class true to its desired play style while making us viable in top level games.