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Lost Island HM should have better loot.


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What reward? The reward should match the difficulty, so these players get Rakata rather than columi is not reward?

 

What i`m saying is that these people were rewarded with Columi pieces that they did not have, AND a piece of Rakata at the end. Only one piece of gear went to waste in the entire run, and nothing went to companions. If that`s not a reward for skilled players, I`m not sure what more you want.

 

(Edit) Deleted a reference to WoW, and the loot rewards given by said game. I shouldn't subject anyone to that torture.

Edited by Saphra
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Oh really? Let's what the group finder said

 

http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1943&stc=1&d=1356557140

 

Why did you people still say it's for Tionese when the GF clearly told us it's columi and it's what most of the players need to do.

Actually, I hadn't seen that before. So that's interesting.

 

So due to the tireless efforts of people who don't like difficult content, HM LI has been nerfed twice, and now publically stated to suggest Columi gear, against the designers original view.

 

Soon HM LI will be nerfed again, or you will get what you want with lots of Rakata, and you will slowly turn this game into something that doesn't reward skill.

 

Then, the ONLY flashpoint that possesses any requirement of skill will have gone the way of the dodo.

 

I'm saddened and not a little annoyed.

 

And in Four G*****m Months of arguing in this thread, all my valorous attempts to budge your viewpoint ONE IOTA have been worthless.

 

Someone else needs to take up the torch. I'm sick of arguing on this point.

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What i`m saying is that these people were rewarded with Columi pieces that they did not have, AND a piece of Rakata at the end. Only one piece of gear went to waste in the entire run, and nothing went to companions.

 

So if LR-5 and Sav Rak drop Rakata what's gonna to get worse?

 

Let's make this simple, LI HM is not impossible to beat with Tionese, some people could do it with companions. But the majority need mostly Columi to beat it, especially those who didn't run this FP many many times, if they ran this many times they usually don't need its drop beside the egg/pet/speeder. Columi is the drop from Tier 1 HM, run Tier 2 HM with Tier 1 HM's gear is not overgearing it. And Columi is recommended in the game by the developers.

 

So since Columi is recommended and it's exactly what most of the people need to beat this FP, and its 3 bosses are on the same level, all of them are significantly more difficult than all Tier 1 HM bosses, require columi to beat usually, and none of them is skippable. Why shouldn't they drop upgrade like Rakata implants/earpieces/relics/bracers/belts to players rather than useless columi?

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Actually, I hadn't seen that before. So that's interesting.

 

So due to the tireless efforts of people who don't like difficult content, HM LI has been nerfed twice, and now publically stated to suggest Columi gear, against the designers original view.

 

Soon HM LI will be nerfed again, or you will get what you want with lots of Rakata, and you will slowly turn this game into something that doesn't reward skill.

 

Then, the ONLY flashpoint that possesses any requirement of skill will have gone the way of the dodo.

 

I'm saddened and not a little annoyed.

 

And in Four G*****m Months of arguing in this thread, all my valorous attempts to budge your viewpoint ONE IOTA have been worthless.

 

Someone else needs to take up the torch. I'm sick of arguing on this point.

 

I'm not asking Bioware to nerf it, the fight is quite cool and does not take too long if we don't wipe horribly. I don't need anything from it anymore but I still love to try it.

 

Sure if possible, I hope LR-5 and Lorrick fight can be a bit more friendly to melee DPS.

Edited by Slowpokeking
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Actually, I hadn't seen that before. So that's interesting.

 

So due to the tireless efforts of people who don't like difficult content, HM LI has been nerfed twice, and now publically stated to suggest Columi gear, against the designers original view.

 

Soon HM LI will be nerfed again, or you will get what you want with lots of Rakata, and you will slowly turn this game into something that doesn't reward skill.

 

Then, the ONLY flashpoint that possesses any requirement of skill will have gone the way of the dodo.

 

I'm saddened and not a little annoyed.

 

And in Four G*****m Months of arguing in this thread, all my valorous attempts to budge your viewpoint ONE IOTA have been worthless.

 

Someone else needs to take up the torch. I'm sick of arguing on this point.

 

You, Sir, are a gentleman, a scholar, and a champion for those of us that enjoy challenges. Quitting will only allow the voice of "MOAR EZ DROPZ!" and "OMGZZZ ITS TO HARD!!!" to prevail.

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Sure if possible, I hope LR-5 and Lorrick fight can be a bit more friendly to melee DPS.

It has already been changed to accommodate melee. For a long time, players were unable to move the plasma coils before they hit.

 

(Edit) Also, interrupting is easier for melee.

Edited by Saphra
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It has already been changed to accommodate melee. For a long time, players were unable to move the plasma coils before they hit.

 

(Edit) Also, interrupting is easier for melee.

 

Range DPS is still much easier to run it.

 

Not much interruption is required in the boss fights except LR-5's fire aoe, and a decent tank can do it well.

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Are you saying the majority are doing LI HM with Tionese or most of the groups can do LI HM with Tionese?

 

You seem to have this interesting opinion that the "majority" of yours prefer to kill 2 bosses, get tons of repair bills, leave the 3rd alive, and expect to be entitled for better loot after choosing not to complete the flashpoint. Just because other bosses aren't dropping Rakata pieces as well doesn't mean any injustice is being done. In fact if all bosses dropped Rakata it would completely overrule Operations content as they are not as easily repeatable as LI HM. In order to make sure current content stalls playerbase for as long as possible, Bioware can't afford spoonfeeding the noobs with loot. Those noobs will have to work themselves to get it.

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You seem to have this interesting opinion that the "majority" of yours prefer to kill 2 bosses, get tons of repair bills, leave the 3rd alive, and expect to be entitled for better loot after choosing not to complete the flashpoint. Just because other bosses aren't dropping Rakata pieces as well doesn't mean any injustice is being done. In fact if all bosses dropped Rakata it would completely overrule Operations content as they are not as easily repeatable as LI HM. In order to make sure current content stalls playerbase for as long as possible, Bioware can't afford spoonfeeding the noobs with loot. Those noobs will have to work themselves to get it.

 

Many groups have such problem, especially first time beat LI. Since they are at same difficulty, they should all drop something useful to columi groups.

 

Why? Just make it drop implants/relics/bracers/belt/relic so you still have to get most of the rakata pieces fron OPS.

 

What noob? Run Tier 2 HM with Tier 1 HM's drop is noob? Not even Bioware thought this way, as they recommend people to run LI HM with Columi.

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Many groups have such problem, especially first time beat LI. Since they are at same difficulty, they should all drop something useful to columi groups.

 

Why? Just make it drop implants/relics/bracers/belt/relic so you still have to get most of the rakata pieces fron OPS.

 

What noob? Run Tier 2 HM with Tier 1 HM's drop is noob? Not even Bioware thought this way, as they recommend people to run LI HM with Columi.

 

You just don't see the value in the gear being provided. The flashpoint already rewards players with almost 3 times more Black Hole commendations, 3 times more Columi pieces and even a Rakata piece, at this point the chances for rare mount and pet to drop -- even though they continue to compel many players -- I won't mention them, they are the bonus. All in all. I disagree with your opinion that rewards are bad, just like many people in this forum.

 

All flashpoints and operations reward players differently with each tier, choosing not to do those said tiers makes you lose the entitlement to earn loot from that tier. There is nothing unnatural in that. The reason why I call your "majority" noobs is that they choose to kill 2 bosses but they fail to kill the 3rd, at least according to your scenario. If you ever think that this makes sense, please send a report to Bioware about "Hey, my team and I tried really hard to kill 3rd boss but we couldn't, but due to our hard work me and my group think we are entitled for the loot the boss offers, please give us our loot thanks". I look forward to hearing their response to that :)

 

Also, it is not unusual for encounters in the game to be more difficult for specific roles over the others, this is not unintended. There are fights that are much harder on tanks, and there are fights that are much harder on ranged dps and healers. At no time does the difficulty of a boss has to be, or CAN be, the same for everyone in the team. Of course, this nerf call is even more ridiculous when they have ALREADY NERFED IT.

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You just don't see the value in the gear being provided. The flashpoint already rewards players with almost 3 times more Black Hole commendations, 3 times more Columi pieces and even a Rakata piece, at this point the chances for rare mount and pet to drop -- even though they continue to compel many players -- I won't mention them, they are the bonus. All in all. I disagree with your opinion that rewards are bad, just like many people in this forum.

 

It's a weekly, not daily, and you have to do Kaon as well.

 

Well again, it's Tier 2 HM, it require Columi to beat for the majority, all 3 bosses are like that. So the leg and boot are useless to them. That mount could also be bought with 200 daily comm and it rarely drops(I got one).

 

Exotech+Columi bracer/belt/earpieces/implants+relics=useful to Tionese

Columi boot and leg=useless to Columi

 

 

All flashpoints and operations reward players differently with each tier, choosing not to do those said tiers makes you lose the entitlement to earn loot from that tier. There is nothing unnatural in that. The reason why I call your "majority" noobs is that they choose to kill 2 bosses but they fail to kill the 3rd, at least according to your scenario. If you ever think that this makes sense, please send a report to Bioware about "Hey, my team and I tried really hard to kill 3rd boss but we couldn't, but due to our hard work me and my group think we are entitled for the loot the boss offers, please give us our loot thanks". I look forward to hearing their response to that :)

 

Of course it makes sense, since if the group are not very skilled with this FP they could screw up many times with the boss but maybe beat 1-2 before they don't want to continue to pay the bill. Like I said, HM OPS does not only put the good drop on the final boss, Tier 1 HM also drops good for Tionese.

 

And if the tank never fought Lorrick before it's going to be a huge pain in the first 2 phases, even if he has good gear.

 

Also, it is not unusual for encounters in the game to be more difficult for specific roles over the others, this is not unintended. There are fights that are much harder on tanks, and there are fights that are much harder on ranged dps and healers. At no time does the difficulty of a boss has to be, or CAN be, the same for everyone in the team. Of course, this nerf call is even more ridiculous when they have ALREADY NERFED IT.

 

It's ok to be difficult, but the drop also should be better and useful to the majority who can beat it, LR-5 and Sav Rak is not the case, they are significantly more difficult than Revan and Mentor but drop the same thing, the worse part is they require mostly Columi to beat for the majority, especially Sav Rak has a tight enrage timer and require good heal unless the team can avoid all the possible damage.

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So... HM LI is very doable in Tionese/MK-1 Recruit gear. By 3 people. (LR-5 one shotted)

 

It's very understandable that a group that's unfamiliar with the mechanics of the FP will likely encounter difficulties, but when you learn how the bosses work, you can do it. When someone walks into a HM of any kind, let alone a clearly labelled tier 2 HM, they should expect to have to put forth some effort to learn and execute the strategies required to complete the FP. If "the majority" doesn't want to do that, there's another option: Some people choose to forgo effort and overgear for things, and that's an acceptable solution as well, but they shouldn't expect to be rewarded beyond the already generous reward of 5 (plus 8, if the weekly is involved) BH comms, which can be used to buy most of the second best gear in the game.

Edited by Saphra
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So... HM LI is very doable in Tionese/MK-1 Recruit gear. By 3 people. (LR-5 one shotted)

 

It's very understandable that a group that's unfamiliar with the mechanics of the FP will likely encounter difficulties, but when you learn how the bosses work, you can do it. When someone walks into a HM of any kind, let alone a clearly labelled tier 2 HM, they should expect to have to put forth some effort to learn and execute the strategies required to complete the FP. If "the majority" doesn't want to do that, there's another option: Some people choose to forgo effort and overgear for things, and that's an acceptable solution as well, but they shouldn't expect to be rewarded beyond the already generous reward of 5 (plus 8, if the weekly is involved) BH comms, which can be used to buy most of the second best gear in the game.

 

Of course it's doable by 3 people in tionese... with voice communication, previous experience, knows their class well etc. Are you kidding me?

 

The fact you seem to be forgetting is the argument is the gear should not be recommended for fresh 50 PuGs for this flashpoint, try playing with a random PuG group from group finder with everyone in just tionese and see if you get far.

 

The argument that "you can do it in tionese so everyone else can" is a bit like the devs turning around and saying they can do TFB naked now so it won't drop gear any more.

 

Gear requirements should be about finding a perfect balance of something that's not too easy but not too hard either, not just finding someone that's done it once in a certain piece of gear and saying that's the requirement.

Edited by FlyinSpaghetti
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Of course it's doable by 3 people in tionese... with voice communication, previous experience, knows their class well etc. Are you kidding me?

 

The fact you seem to be forgetting is the argument is the gear should not be recommended for fresh 50 PuGs for this flashpoint, try playing with a random PuG group from group finder with everyone in just tionese and see if you get far.

 

The argument that "you can do it in tionese so everyone else can" is a bit like the devs turning around and saying they can do TFB naked now so it won't drop gear any more.

 

Gear requirements should be about finding a perfect balance of something that's not too easy but not too hard either, not just finding someone that's done it once in a certain piece of gear and saying that's the requirement.

 

The fact that 3 people in Tionese can do it immediately means it can be done by 4 people in Tionese, New 50 or not. Just because it is challenging that way does not mean it is not intended as such. For some reason players like expect to be spoonfed instead of you trying to get better in the game. Why do you want standards to fall to your level, instead of you striving to reach up the higher standard, and demand that you get fed?

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Of course it's doable by 3 people in tionese... with voice communication, previous experience, knows their class well etc. Are you kidding me?

 

The fact you seem to be forgetting is the argument is the gear should not be recommended for fresh 50 PuGs for this flashpoint, try playing with a random PuG group from group finder with everyone in just tionese and see if you get far.

 

The argument that "you can do it in tionese so everyone else can" is a bit like the devs turning around and saying they can do TFB naked now so it won't drop gear any more.

 

Gear requirements should be about finding a perfect balance of something that's not too easy but not too hard either, not just finding someone that's done it once in a certain piece of gear and saying that's the requirement.

 

And what you are saying is "EC HM should drop better pieces since most players need BH to pass it". they sucks, they are not rewarded, end of the story.

 

This FP drops THREE COLUMI PIECE and ONE RAKATA. The COLUMI MH and the RAKATA CHEST are REALLY HARDER to get in an operation. Holu hell, I wonder what's next ? This FP should drop some level 63 piece, like MH, offhand ?

 

If you can't pass it in Tionese, don't come here and post "OMG OMG OMG THIS IS TOO HARD !!! NERF NERF NERF OR bETTER LOOT OMG OMG OMG" but "what can I do to be better ?". This a the difference between a Noob and a Newb(ie) :

-The Noob is bad but doesn't accept it. He asks for nerfs and better loot when he cannot pass something. And if someone shows them the truth (Mox is a possibility), he blames the gear.

-The Newbie is bad (in most cases, he's discovering and needs practice) but he knows it. He tries to become better.

 

this FP is balanced for Tionese, like TfB HM is balanced for a full 61-geared group. EC HM is balanced for a full 58-geared group, without augments. We proved it by ceaning them, and EC HM in Rakata without augments is harder than LI HM in Tionese .....

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Of course it's doable by 3 people in tionese... with voice communication, previous experience, knows their class well etc. Are you kidding me?

 

The fact you seem to be forgetting is the argument is the gear should not be recommended for fresh 50 PuGs for this flashpoint, try playing with a random PuG group from group finder with everyone in just tionese and see if you get far.

 

The argument that "you can do it in tionese so everyone else can" is a bit like the devs turning around and saying they can do TFB naked now so it won't drop gear any more.

 

Gear requirements should be about finding a perfect balance of something that's not too easy but not too hard either, not just finding someone that's done it once in a certain piece of gear and saying that's the requirement.

 

I think you missed the point while still kind of getting it.

 

The movie shows that gear is *not a factor*: paying attention, knowing the fight and executing it *is a factor*.

 

You don't need voice communication. But you do need everyone to have (quoting you) "previous experience, knows their class well, etc".

 

HM LI doesn't *need* better gear drops. It simply states in a very upfront manner: "you have to be "this high" to ride this amusement". If you don't meet the "height requirement" don't do it. If you insist on doing it, make sure that you are up to it.

 

There is a reason it is not selected by default in Group Finder. When people go to select it there is a pop-up warning you that this content is "harder" and requires a certain level of gear. If people ignore that and go in anyway that is not the game's fault.

 

HM LI is a Tier 2 HM. It is a step up from the Tier 1 HMs and a step down from the SM OPs. Its rewards reflect that. The bosses drop Columi (instead of just the last boss as in the Tier 1 HMs) and the last boss drops the one piece of Columi not available by doing the Tier 1 HMs (the mainhand weapon) and a piece from the next gear level (Rakata chest).

 

If you want those rewards and you feel up to the challenge of doing this Tier 2 HM, select it in GF and go do it. If you find yourself in a group with people who are not ready for it, explain to them that this instance is not for them and that they have to "grow a little more" so that they can meet the "height requirement". Exit the group and queue again: at some point you will be queued with people who do have the "height requirement" and you will have a fun time and be rewarded accordingly.

 

Don't ask for the rewards to be increased. Don't ask for the FP to be nerfed. Educate people with you that it isn't for everyone. (If you are one of those that isn't ready for it, consider yourself "educated". :))

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The fact that 3 people in Tionese can do it immediately means it can be done by 4 people in Tionese, New 50 or not. Just because it is challenging that way does not mean it is not intended as such. For some reason players like expect to be spoonfed instead of you trying to get better in the game. Why do you want standards to fall to your level, instead of you striving to reach up the higher standard, and demand that you get fed?

 

My level? FYI I've tanked and DPS'ed LI HM with two of my alts in columi at the time (now they are full BH/optimized BH and pretty much storm through it), I have zero problem with LI HM myself.

 

The problem is when I see fresh 50's join a group wearing tionese who have little endgame experience, sure you can do LI HM in tionese when you have a voice server, already know tactics and know your class inside out but what about the fresh 50 who just got through the class story by facerolling one or two buttons and ignoring mechanics because they've been too forgiving up to that point, you're telling me that a player with zero endgame experience should be allowed to grab a tionese set and just jump straight in to LI HM simply because either you or a guild you know who know the mechanics inside out can do it in that gear?

 

From what I've seen from a PuG perspective is tionese players fail 99% of the time, not because the gear isn't enough but they don't have the experience, that's even more occurrent after the free tionese set was handed out in 1.6. How can you justify telling fresh players it's OK to try a tier 2 when really they should stick to the tier 1's for a while and learn the ropes?

 

That's what exactly you're doing by telling them it's OK and that they're bad for having more gear than the requirement, the only thing that's going to come from it is un-installs from frustration and catering for the few doesn't help BW gain more subs.

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My level? FYI I've tanked and DPS'ed LI HM with two of my alts in columi at the time (now they are full BH/optimized BH and pretty much storm through it), I have zero problem with LI HM myself.

 

The problem is when I see fresh 50's join a group wearing tionese who have little endgame experience, sure you can do LI HM in tionese when you have a voice server, already know tactics and know your class inside out but what about the fresh 50 who just got through the class story by facerolling one or two buttons and ignoring mechanics because they've been too forgiving up to that point, you're telling me that a player with zero endgame experience should be allowed to grab a tionese set and just jump straight in to LI HM simply because either you or a guild you know who know the mechanics inside out can do it in that gear?

 

From what I've seen from a PuG perspective is tionese players fail 99% of the time, not because the gear isn't enough but they don't have the experience, that's even more occurrent after the free tionese set was handed out in 1.6. How can you justify telling fresh players it's OK to try a tier 2 when really they should stick to the tier 1's for a while and learn the ropes?

 

That's what exactly you're doing by telling them it's OK and that they're bad for having more gear than the requirement, the only thing that's going to come from it is un-installs from frustration and catering for the few doesn't help BW gain more subs.

 

Ahhh... I see where you are coming from. (Ignore my "If you are one of those that isn't ready for it, consider yourself "educated"." dig at you. ;))

 

The fact is that the game *does not* say it is OK for players in Tionese to go do HM LI.

 

Go into Group Finder. The "Tier 2" checkbox is unselected by default. When you hover your mouse over it you get an explicit explanation of what is expected of you (gear wise) if you want to do that content.

 

As I said in my post before yours, if people are still selecting it when they are not ready for it it is not the game's fault. It is their fault. Not the "game's", not "yours" and not "mine". Theirs.

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The fact is that the game *does not* say it is OK for players in Tionese to go do HM LI.

.

 

One of BW has already said in this topic (see first BW post) that the flashpoint is "tightly balanced for tionese", that's what I'm having a dig at. It's sending the wrong message that a fresh 50 with no endgame experience can PuG it in tionese. There is no way you can just jump into LI HM as your first ever HM flashpoint and succeed, all you will be doing is wasting everyone's time.

 

As for gear drops, I'm not saying they should fill it full of rakata however they should get rid of the disappointing drops like tionese crystals and replace the with something more worthwhile as well as the quest reward itself should be a columi comm rather than a tionese one. There's too much junk in this flashpoint considering the difficulty and the only thing remotely exciting after the chest and mainhand drop is the very rare chance of a pet.

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One of BW has already said in this topic (see first BW post) that the flashpoint is "tightly balanced for tionese", that's what I'm having a dig at. It's sending the wrong message that a fresh 50 with no endgame experience can PuG it in tionese. There is no way you can just jump into LI HM as your first ever HM flashpoint and succeed, all you will be doing is wasting everyone's time.

 

OK. Again I see where you coming from.

 

But... don't you think you are taking the "tightly balaced for tionese" a little out of context? Here is where the quote was taken from:

He mentioned that Lost Island is balanced very tightly for a group in Tionese-quality gear, but that because the boss mechanics are heavily execution-based, many players prefer to overgear for it. Small mistakes can easily wipe the group, so bringing Ops level gear is great insurance, even if it isn't required. The loot quality reflects this - players who take the risk of going in with Tionese and Columi gear will be rewarded. Players with Ops level gear are likely there for the Black Hole Commendations right now.

I really don't see where Jesse Sky is saying that "a fresh 50 with no endgame experience can PuG it in tionese". When you see the whole quote, you see that he actually states that it is "balanced very tightly" and that "the boss mechanics are heavily execution-based". He goes on to say "Small mistakes can easily wipe the group" and "Ops level gear is great insurance, even if it isn't required". The kicker is actually this "loot quality reflects this - players who take the risk of going in with Tionese and Columi gear will be rewarded".

 

As for gear drops, I'm not saying they should fill it full of rakata however they should get rid of the disappointing drops like tionese crystals and replace the with something more worthwhile as well as the quest reward itself should be a columi comm rather than a tionese one. There's too much junk in this flashpoint considering the difficulty and the only thing remotely exciting after the chest and mainhand drop is the very rare chance of a pet.

Tionese crystals are a great way to make some extra money: 25 of them will buy you a neat little "Ancient Artifact Storage Box" from the Tionese vendor that will contain a level 50 artifact item in it.

 

Having said that, the Bioware post also had this there:

That's not to say that we won't be re-examining gear progression going forward. It just happened that when Lost Island was released (1.2), it made sense to us to offer new players and alternate route to the Rakata chest and Columi main hand while infusing the weekly Flashpoint missions with a bit more challenge for players who had geared past most Flashpoints.

So, at some point, things may change in HM LI.

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not calling for a nerf on the flashpoint, its fine other than the loot in my opinion.

 

My guild and i finally got through lost island up to the last boss before calling it due to time. and we all realized after downing the first 2 bosses (sentinal droid and the Sav-rak) that the loot in that flashpoint is kinda pointless because we are all already full columi with rakata implants and ear as usual and we didnt benefit from any of the boss fights except for the satisfaction of beating them. yes, i know Lorrick drops the columi mainhand and the rakata chest, but that is still barely an upgrade.

 

my point: Since Lost island HM is easily the hardest flashpoint out there at this time, it should have better drops than just tionese crystals/comms and the more common of the columi drops (pants, boots). I loved doing this flashpoint, it was alot of fun for my team, but we felt the drops were under par due to the fact the majortiy of everyone that does this FP is in full columi if not better.

 

Great job BioWare on making a challenging and fun Flashpoint, but could use some better loot.

 

Thanks for reading, just speakin my thoughts.

Your talking about it as if LI HM is really really hard! LOL I can do it with a pug with no effort at all when i do it i multitask some other things meanwhile, Kephess NiM is the real deal.

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