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I've gone through the first three pages - Queuing for WZ/FPs rationale?


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What we have now was probably the first/quickest solution that popped.
What you've got is how every MMO on the market that has Qs for PVE and PVP do it. I know it seems to make your arguement more valid (even tho it really doesn't) to make it seem like they were simply to lazy to come up with the Q but not really in the Q idea of stacking. Under this solution you'd still take forever to get a FP Q to pop cause PVP pops are dime a dozen and you'd have a cloud of perpetually stuck people in the limbo in-between the two. Dan is #19 and gets out of his PVP Q and gets another 30 seconds later, so he has a whole 30 seconds for the PVE Q to pop before he's back in limbo again.

 

How is this in anyway a workable solution? How much of the games resources are going to be tied up keeping track of the massive cloud of people in the Q but not really because the are in a PVP match at the same time? Yes eventually they would get lucky and get a pop inbetween the two but in the meantime the only reliable way to get in a PVE grp is too...not Q up for another WZ...just like they are asking you to do now.

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There is an easy solution to both problems. Allow us to keep our position in the queue while in a warzone. If it becomes our "turn" during a warzone then simply allow the next person to go.

 

That is exactly what would fix all the problems at once ...

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I don't know what's going on here, but this has already been discussed on another thread. The thread I started was moved out of General Discussion and placed in it's proper place. Why exactly did General need another one of these? And why exactly is this thread still in General? This was my thread, that started in General, then was moved.

 

We have already discussed the pros and cons to death about this subject. Now I have to come to this thread and read 11 pages of the same crap we have already talked about. It's like you guys are living in the dark ages and have yet to catch up to the conversation.

 

This is what happens when a Mod moves a topic out of it's proper place. It gets unnoticed once it is moved and somebody starts another thread.

 

Regardless, I hate to see another thread get brought up on this, because that undermines everything that has been discussed in the previous thread. There were a lot of good points made in that thread that will go ignored, due to this thread's existence.

 

So if you are truly serious about this topic, I ask that you take the time to read some of the points brought up in that other thread that I linked.

 

Thanks.

Edited by Wraiven
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What you've got is how every MMO on the market that has Qs for PVE and PVP do it. I know it seems to make your arguement more valid (even tho it really doesn't) to make it seem like they were simply to lazy to come up with the Q but not really in the Q idea of stacking. Under this solution you'd still take forever to get a FP Q to pop cause PVP pops are dime a dozen and you'd have a cloud of perpetually stuck people in the limbo in-between the two. Dan is #19 and gets out of his PVP Q and gets another 30 seconds later, so he has a whole 30 seconds for the PVE Q to pop before he's back in limbo again.

 

How is this in anyway a workable solution? How much of the games resources are going to be tied up keeping track of the massive cloud of people in the Q but not really because the are in a PVP match at the same time? Yes eventually they would get lucky and get a pop inbetween the two but in the meantime the only reliable way to get in a PVE grp is too...not Q up for another WZ...just like they are asking you to do now.

You raise a valid point, but this could be solved by simply letting a player know where they are in queue. If a queue would have popped for them while they were in a wz, let them know so they can refrain from queuing for another wz. I'd suggest that once a fp queue would have popped once for them, it would make sense that if they queue for another wz at that point, they be taken out of fp queue because otherwise people may just sit in fp queue at the top of the list for an indefinite amount of time.

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What you've got is how every MMO on the market that has Qs for PVE and PVP do it. I know it seems to make your arguement more valid (even tho it really doesn't) to make it seem like they were simply to lazy to come up with the Q but not really in the Q idea of stacking. Under this solution you'd still take forever to get a FP Q to pop cause PVP pops are dime a dozen and you'd have a cloud of perpetually stuck people in the limbo in-between the two. Dan is #19 and gets out of his PVP Q and gets another 30 seconds later, so he has a whole 30 seconds for the PVE Q to pop before he's back in limbo again.

 

How is this in anyway a workable solution? How much of the games resources are going to be tied up keeping track of the massive cloud of people in the Q but not really because the are in a PVP match at the same time? Yes eventually they would get lucky and get a pop inbetween the two but in the meantime the only reliable way to get in a PVE grp is too...not Q up for another WZ...just like they are asking you to do now.

 

Well I can only speak for myself, but under the old system when a FP popped for me and was declined by someone else, I completely stopped queuing for WZ's knowing I was at the top of the list. For the times when I had to decline because I was in a WZ I would again stop queuing for anything but FP's afterward because I could see they were popping. For me the solution would work.

 

I can't imagine it would take more resources then keeping track of all the people that queue now anyways. It's the same population size, and the way they have it now is flagging people that are in WZ's so they can't be queued for FP. I can't imagine its that much more to keep everyone in it (like it was before) but just adding a bypass.

 

I'd be fine with this new way, as long as I could see where I was in the queue. Not knowing if I could spend entire gaming sessions waiting for a FP is enough for me (and I'm sure a good amount of people) to stay out of it completely, which sucks. I like the FP's, but they are not worth spending hours waiting to pop.

 

I'm just having a hard time seeing the value added with this feature to stop a small fraction of people leaving WZ's

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What you've got is how every MMO on the market that has Qs for PVE and PVP do it. I know it seems to make your arguement more valid (even tho it really doesn't) to make it seem like they were simply to lazy to come up with the Q but not really in the Q idea of stacking. Under this solution you'd still take forever to get a FP Q to pop cause PVP pops are dime a dozen and you'd have a cloud of perpetually stuck people in the limbo in-between the two. Dan is #19 and gets out of his PVP Q and gets another 30 seconds later, so he has a whole 30 seconds for the PVE Q to pop before he's back in limbo again.

 

How is this in anyway a workable solution? How much of the games resources are going to be tied up keeping track of the massive cloud of people in the Q but not really because the are in a PVP match at the same time? Yes eventually they would get lucky and get a pop inbetween the two but in the meantime the only reliable way to get in a PVE grp is too...not Q up for another WZ...just like they are asking you to do now.

 

Obviously you missed where I wrote about a notification to the player, telling them that they are at the top of the queue.

 

If they choose to continue pvping instead of waiting for the flashpoint queue at that point in time, that's their problem.

Edited by Craftamancer
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I don't know what's going on here, but this has already been discussed on another thread. The thread I started was moved out of General Discussion and placed in it's proper place. Why exactly did General need another one of these? And why exactly is this thread still in General? This was my thread, that started in General, then was moved.

 

We have already discussed the pros and cons to death about this subject. Now I have to come to this thread and read 11 pages of the same crap we have already talked about. It's like you guys are living in the dark ages and have yet to catch up to the conversation.

 

This is what happens when a Mod moves a topic out of it's proper place. It gets unnoticed once it is moved and somebody starts another thread.

 

Regardless, I hate to see another thread get brought up on this, because that undermines everything that has been discussed in the previous thread. There were a lot of good points made in that thread that will go ignored, due to this thread's existence.

 

So if you are truly serious about this topic, I ask that you take the time to read some of the points brought up in that other thread that I linked.

 

Thanks.

 

Seriously, as much as I think that the queue problem can be easily solved (see my suggestion above if you like), your entire post screams "look at me! I'm important!". A simple post stating that "There are some more good ideas regarding this topic here "Link", would have been FAR more effective. As it is, I now have zero interest to go back and read your link.

Edited by Craftamancer
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Seriously, as much as I think that the queue problem can be easily solved (see my suggestion above if you like), you're entire post screams "look at me! I'm important!". A simple post stating that "There are some more good ideas regarding this topic here "Link", would have been FAR more effective. As it is, I now have zero interest to go back and read your link.

 

It's not a matter of screaming anything other than the fact that posts are removed consistently from General Discussion, when others are allowed to stay. It's a matter of injustice than anything else. If my thread was left where it should have been left, (In general discussion) we would have never had this issue to begin with, and most likely could have had a solid fix to the problem by now. Instead, we have threads being removed (I suspect to keep us quiet) and placed in sections where hardly anyone look at them.

 

And to be quite honest, we have a search function on these boards for a reason. If the OP had simply used it like everyone else, he would have found the thread that was already in progress and could have continued the conversation there. It's what the search function is for, and to make new threads on topics already in heavy discussion, usually get deleted, not moved.

 

I'm not going to apologize for somebody else who breaks forum rules in regards to making threads on topics that already exist.

Edited by Wraiven
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If my thread was left where it should have been left, (In general discussion) we would have never had this issue to begin with, and most likely could have had a solid fix to the problem by now.

 

While I agree completely with you on the subject of the queues, this is purest nonsense. It furthers your cause, when there are more threads about this. because the higher the waves this thing is causing, the more attention it'll get from devs. Secondly we won't make a fix whatsoever, we can only make our voices heard and hope for some backpedaling on the issue.

 

And on a more personal note, it really makes you sound puffed up...

Edited by -MikeTC-
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While I agree completely with you on the subject of the queues, this is purest nonsense. It furthers your cause, when there are more threads about this. because the higher the waves this thing is causing, the more attention it'll get from devs. Secondly we won't make a fix whatsoever, we can only make our voices heard and hope for some backpedaling on the issue.

 

And on a more personal note, it really makes you sound puffed up...

 

To be fair...and let's think about this for a moment, this thread and my thread belong in General Discussion. It's not just about PvE queues, it's about PvP queues as well. This *is* a general topic. Sadly, like I already said, the Moderators for some reason move them to this forum. Why not the PvP forum?

 

Technically, there is no such thing as a general thread, because judging by what the Moderators do, any topic at all can be moved to another location. But whatever, like I said, I have a feeling they do this to keep us quiet.

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What you've got is how every MMO on the market that has Qs for PVE and PVP do it. I know it seems to make your arguement more valid (even tho it really doesn't) to make it seem like they were simply to lazy to come up with the Q but not really in the Q idea of stacking. Under this solution you'd still take forever to get a FP Q to pop cause PVP pops are dime a dozen and you'd have a cloud of perpetually stuck people in the limbo in-between the two. Dan is #19 and gets out of his PVP Q and gets another 30 seconds later, so he has a whole 30 seconds for the PVE Q to pop before he's back in limbo again.

 

How is this in anyway a workable solution? How much of the games resources are going to be tied up keeping track of the massive cloud of people in the Q but not really because the are in a PVP match at the same time? Yes eventually they would get lucky and get a pop inbetween the two but in the meantime the only reliable way to get in a PVE grp is too...not Q up for another WZ...just like they are asking you to do now.

 

The number of resources required to add this solution is negligible. All it takes is:

- A "In WZ" flag for each player in queue; and

- A "If player is in WZ then select next player" statement when matching groups.

You would also need a method to flag someone as 'in WZ" when they enter one, but that shouldn't be too complex either. Something along the lines of: "If player is in GF queue, flag as 'in WZ'" when the WZ queue pops.

 

Total, thats 1 flag (can be done in 1 bit, but we'll say a whole byte) and a couple of lines of code. Less than 5 MB of extra memory on the server, and that's being generous.

 

I quite liked being able to queue for a WZ while waiting for my FP to pop while leveling. Helped break up the monotony of planets I'd run 3 times before. I used to jump on my alt, hop in both queues and quest until one popped (usually a WZ) run that, go back to questing wait for another pop and repeat. Only once did I ever have the GF queue pop while I was in a WZ, and that was 1 minute from the end so I waited it out.

 

I could see a queue pop being an issue if you had 3 members all drop WZ at the same time because they were waiting on one other player to join the GF queue but 1 or 2 isn't that massive, especially compared to the number of people I've seen leave when we don't get 2 caps off the bat in NC or ACW. Once my team of 8 became a team of 3.... 30 seconds into a match. We recovered numbers and ended up winning so it was sweet, but that was crazy.

 

Overall, I'm not saying that BW should allow dual queuing, but I really liked it and I don't use either queue as much anymore. I liked having a finger in both pies rather than all my eggs in one basket.

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To be honest Wraiven these threads should have been merged at least that is what happens when we have enough mods to take care of it.

 

As I said in Wraiven's original thread I really dislike this change and it has taken away from my gameplay. This change has made the game worse rather than improved it for the majority of the population. As mentioned several times by doing this you are limiting the pool in both PVP & PVE which doesn't sound good to me.

 

Please Bioware check out some of these solutions and at least say we are looking at it, give us something.

 

I like many others have a DPS which takes forever for GF but I also have a tank and a healer which used to be instapops pre 1.4 now even they are taking a little bit longer. Not as long as a DPS but it is definitely not as fast as it used to be.

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The best solution!

 

exactlly.

people just like doing crazy talk supporting BW on all these changes.....they are always taking the cheap, non sophisticated route to solving problems.

As a SW developer, this is not rocket science or complicated...what they are failing to do is just some good 'design'.

They should have simply implemented a hold queue spot using WZ flags that allows people to retain/regain their spot in the queue when they leave the WZ but if the PVE popped while they were in, it simply skipped them and moved to next in queue.

 

People are desperately trying to find SOMETHING to do in the game right now...making them stand and do nothing because they have to chose either/or is just a design fail

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No mention of fixing this in today's patch notes, so reposting what the dev response should have been, and can still be:

 

"We appreciate all of your suggestions about alternative ways to reduce early quitting in warzones. We have heard the frustrations of players who feel the sting of team members abandoning a warzone at a crucial moment. We also understand and are excited that our players want to participate in both the exciting PVP aspects of our game, and use our group finder to experience PVE content and complete the daily quests that require its use. We will be looking at ways to make sure both are possible, and implementing the change in an upcoming patch.

 

Thank you for your feedback."

 

The first step is acknowledging you have a problem Rob Hinkle (Senior PvP Designer)

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All you people are doing is complaining. If a player leaving is ruining your war zone have you ever thought that they might be leaving because you are ruining it for them. Not once have you suggested anything that would give them a reason to stay. Bottom line is, they don't want to play with you. You don't have the right, and you shouldn't want to force someone who doesn't want to play with you to play with you. Every player has a specific agenda when they log on, thier needs aren't being met so they go some where else to try and meet those needs. What you are saying is essentially the equivalent of, "My girlfriend should be penalized when she breaks up with me because she no longer wants to be in the relationship, this will keep her from leaving me because she won't want to be penalized." Either give these players a reason to stay, or deal with the fact that it's not working out. "It's not you it's me, I'm sure you'll find someone else."
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This game isn't W0W and this change will have a VERY minimal impact on people leaving WZ's.

 

How can you say this will have a very minimal impact on people leaving warzones. If there are so many ppl that want to queue for both, it will have far more than a minimal impact. I doubt too many of the ppl will wanna be rude enough to tell their party members, "Oh, could you please wait like 12 minutes while I finish a warzone?".

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We all know the reason people leave war zones. Leaving to join a fp or an op was not one of the reasons that annoyed me in the slightest
So lets see YOU say it isn't true and we are supposed to trust your word cause you have...what exactly to back up your assumption? Meanwhile the people who run the game and who have the metrics that show people were leaving WZs for FPs in great enough numbers decided they would do what ALL MMOs due to alleviate the problem, ie no queuing for both.

 

So it comes down to the guy who thinks he knows cause he FEELS it to be true vs. the people who actually know *** is going on because of the internal metrics they have that provide factual evidence. Hmmm who do we listen to? Such hard decisions in life!

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  • 3 weeks later...
I have still yet to q up for a WZ due to this change.

 

I used to enjoy it. I wonder if quitting wz's is that much better now?

 

With the exception of finishing off a war hero boundless ages relic I needed to get comms for (since it's still inexplicably BIS even when 1.5 comes out), I haven't played a single pvp match on either level 50 since the change. I have seen an increase people begging for others to queue up in fleet though... so... lol?

 

Level 0 thinking doesn't lead itself to solid problem solving.

Edited by anakedcowboy
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With the exception of finishing off a war hero boundless ages relic I needed to get comms for (since it's still inexplicably BIS even when 1.5 comes out), I haven't played a single pvp match on either level 50 since the change. I have seen an increase people begging for others to queue up in fleet though... so... lol?

 

Level 0 thinking doesn't lead itself to solid problem solving.

 

Yeah same here I have noticed gen chat begging for people to queue during all hours of the day. So this change must have spurned great improvement. I 2 have BiS but I would definitely play to get my daily and weekly sadly I haven't even bothered now. Disappointing.

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Vote for being able to queue for flashpoint for other characters..

 

I have multiple character and the abbilty to queue with all of them (they a different roles) at the same time would be huge..

 

Or when you have leveling another character, it would be great to be able to queue with other characters.

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