Jump to content

What is your basis for opposing a group-searching system in SWTOR?


Recommended Posts

I've just now seen another thread where someone wants such system and got some heat for it. I supported the OP, and even I got some heat for it. So, I want to ask this question to all who oppose it.

 

In what specific way will such a system hurt you that you find it necessary to deny others this feature?

 

The biggest complaints I have heard are (1) it kills the community and (2) a lot of players will leave the game, possibly because it kills the community. Most of those speak from experience of WoW. If this is your issue, I would like you to describe your idea of community in SWTOR and how is that community hurt by such a system.

 

Personally, I do not think community should be forced on others. There are people of many different backgrounds playing SWTOR. Some like to interact extensively with others, including during the process of forming teams. Others don't. Certainly people who want to look for others on their own should not be denied that right. They are free to not use the group-searching function. I think it a foregone conclusion that anyone who uses such a system is not interested in wasting time looking for a team over the chat channels. That is not the kind of community they want to join. I see no harm that these people pose to the community of people who look for others on their own.

 

If, on the other hand, you simply threaten to leave the game if such a feature is added, then there is no reason to debate. Just as some players will leave if such a feature remains absent, you are free to leave if this feature offends you. In this case, it's simply up to the devs what they want to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 97
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Community in this sense means that you play with some personal real-life friends, guildmates you like and maybe a couple people on your friends list that you thought were good tanks or whatever, instead of doing "pick up groups" where you group with random people you don't know.

 

In a game with no sense of community, you may group with just about anyone randomly and never see them again. In a game with a good sense of community, you will very rarely ever group with anyone you don't regularly group with, and dislike it when you do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Community in this sense means that you play with some personal real-life friends, guildmates you like and maybe a couple people on your friends list that you thought were good tanks or whatever, instead of doing "pick up groups" where you group with random people you don't know.

 

In a game with no sense of community, you may group with just about anyone randomly and never see them again. In a game with a good sense of community, you will very rarely ever group with anyone you don't regularly group with, and dislike it when you do.

 

Yeah, but they could still fix this by making us goto a certain place to let us QUE and making it only with persons on our server, having no que system at all, meaning we end up spamming general chat for hours on end, is stupid.

 

At the moment, the abnoxious sith sorcerer who has been there for 5mins spamming "LFG" 5 lines every 30 seconds, can get into a group before someone who has been waiting for like 30min and not being a moron about it.

Edited by Riavan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think a dungeon finder is the solution but they need to have some better LFG tools. I would like something a lot more obvious and varied.

 

Ideally, the LFG tag should come with a set of filters, that when you set yourself as LFG you can then highlight any of the quests you have in your log that you are LFG for, rather than just write a comment (though that option should remain).

 

Then those looking for people to join their group should be able to search the LFG list server-wide (not just by planet) and sort it according to the quests people have selected. This would making finding people for specific heroics and flashpoints a lot of easier when they are spread out.

 

We should also have a role option, when you set LFG it should allow you to pick one of the three roles and show this as well, which again would make finding each other a lot easier.

 

A system like this would be a vast improvement over the current one and maintain the social element of actually having to talk to people to form a group. People would also contain to spam the chat channels on the Republic Fleet, so it wouldn't hurt that "social" element either.

 

But it needs to be obvious, like a HUGE button next your character portrait on the main UI. Otherwise no one will use it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK my idea for a looking for group system come from not enjoy the WoW system and wanting to keep group's on the same Server. The LFG should work abit like a lobby system without being in a lobby. You put your self up on a list, This should be done with tick box's. SO for e.g. I'l would Be showed as Smuggler lvl 10, DPS, Black Talon. If i dont want to make a group then I can sit there.

 

Then you have a option where somone can make a group (make a game if were going back to the lobby system) That person can search through all players that have listed them selfs for groups and filter accordling. Then place everyone they picked into a lobby then once everyone it happy they click a button and bang its a group. Then you all meet up doing your question and get a high five at the end.

 

This would need to be its own button on the UI otherwise no one uses it lol. I think in games like league of legends or world of tanks the custom game finder systems works so well that I dont see a reason why the princables wouldnt work in a MMOLFG.

 

Instant locking people into a group I believe wouldnt work due to player might not want to play with x person and locks and blocks should be allowed. E.g. you can block a player from inviting you because he ninja'ed your amazing helm for his comp lol.

 

On a personal note I havnt had any issues finding groups I dont spam chat or in a guild. I message people asking them if they would be intrested in doing X. It works REALLY well. 90% of the time players want to do the content and I can see if there a Jugg or Power tech and ask if they can tank / heal (for healing classes) as I myself play DPS. But I dont know if players know they can talk to each other and not spam chat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK my idea for a looking for group system come from not enjoy the WoW system and wanting to keep group's on the same Server. The LFG should work abit like a lobby system without being in a lobby. You put your self up on a list, This should be done with tick box's. SO for e.g. I'l would Be showed as Smuggler lvl 10, DPS, Black Talon. If i dont want to make a group then I can sit there.

 

Then you have a option where somone can make a group (make a game if were going back to the lobby system) That person can search through all players that have listed them selfs for groups and filter accordling. Then place everyone they picked into a lobby then once everyone it happy they click a button and bang its a group. Then you all meet up doing your question and get a high five at the end.

 

This would need to be its own button on the UI otherwise no one uses it lol. I think in games like league of legends or world of tanks the custom game finder systems works so well that I dont see a reason why the princables wouldnt work in a MMOLFG.

 

Instant locking people into a group I believe wouldnt work due to player might not want to play with x person and locks and blocks should be allowed. E.g. you can block a player from inviting you because he ninja'ed your amazing helm for his comp lol.

 

On a personal note I havnt had any issues finding groups I dont spam chat or in a guild. I message people asking them if they would be intrested in doing X. It works REALLY well. 90% of the time players want to do the content and I can see if there a Jugg or Power tech and ask if they can tank / heal (for healing classes) as I myself play DPS. But I dont know if players know they can talk to each other and not spam chat.

 

 

So pretty much what guild wars has? It still has chat spamming though, problem is all the instances share the same chat channel to spam in TOR. I agree, if there was a more prominent UI button to stick the LFG logo on, it would be a good idea.

 

I still think a system like the original, non-cross-server bg queing in wow would be better and still retain the community feel, a que system, but one that requires people to go to a certain area to que. We used to have great fun fighting/dueling and talking outside the BG enterance ques in arathi/barrens/hillsbrad, then they moved server que enterances to orgrimmer, there was still a big community vibe, but all that was totally destroyed with cross server bgs, that let you que from anywhere in the world.

Edited by Riavan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

100% agreed, haven't managed to run a single heroic (or normal for that matter) if i don't count those made with a full guild group, which is plain wrong. Sure, we farm hcs with our own group, but if any of us (or even 2-3 just missing 1) want to get things going with randoms it's a nightmare.

 

Everyone should be able to do any fp at any time of the day/night imo. Having content/entertainment denied just cause the server is dead at weird hours or there doesn't happen to be people caring about what you want to farm is just terrible.

 

Here's a couple examples why the current stone age system is bad:

 

1)Just a couple days ago some random asked me if i wanted to do dir7 normal, so mind you, not even an hc or anything difficult, i said ok as i was just clearing corellia for the sake of it since the day i made 50 i had barely started that planet. Well, he/we couldn't find people no matter what, for 1,2,3 hours he kept searching, he even started asking for just 45+ people.

 

2)During a hc with randoms at some point a guy decided he couldn't be arsed to finish it and left, couldn't find a replacement for over an hour so we just gave up. BUT HEY at least we can blacklist that random who left, amirite? .. sigh. We would have rather have had someone insta joining via queue when the ***** left.

 

3)I'd like to make more examples on why this is terrible but truth is that aside from those 2 runs i couldn't even manage to get anything going (or joining).

 

Furthermore, the fleet system is nice and roleplayish but, seriously, when you've run instances 10+ times, all the loadings, taxis, recalls, elevators, whatever, get really ANNOYING AS HELL. It would be fine if it was a single player, but it isn't, mmos need functionality above everything else, come on. Force people to get the quest or discover entrances the first time maybe, sure, but after that, it shouldn't be required anymore.

 

tl:dr - wow's dungeon finder tool should be copy pasted into this game cause the current system is terrible in the long run and we aren't in 1999 anymore.

Edited by AzKnc
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think a dungeon finder is the solution but they need to have some better LFG tools. I would like something a lot more obvious and varied.

 

Ideally, the LFG tag should come with a set of filters, that when you set yourself as LFG you can then highlight any of the quests you have in your log that you are LFG for, rather than just write a comment (though that option should remain).

 

Then those looking for people to join their group should be able to search the LFG list server-wide (not just by planet) and sort it according to the quests people have selected. This would making finding people for specific heroics and flashpoints a lot of easier when they are spread out.

 

We should also have a role option, when you set LFG it should allow you to pick one of the three roles and show this as well, which again would make finding each other a lot easier.

 

A system like this would be a vast improvement over the current one and maintain the social element of actually having to talk to people to form a group. People would also contain to spam the chat channels on the Republic Fleet, so it wouldn't hurt that "social" element either.

 

But it needs to be obvious, like a HUGE button next your character portrait on the main UI. Otherwise no one will use it.

 

I couldn't agree more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a game with a good sense of community, you will very rarely ever group with anyone you don't regularly group with, and dislike it when you do.

 

This is disturbing to me. It seems that these people don't want to group with anyone outside of their guild but don't want anyone else grouping either.

 

Is this some form of guild blocking where you are trying to make the gear in instances more exclusive?

 

Community in an mmo is the interaction you have with people outside of your clique. Everquest had a much better community than modern instanced games and i loved grouping with new people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Opposing an LFG tool on the grounds that it will destroy the community and ruin the game is like opposing gay marriage because you think it'll destroy civilization and ruin heterosexual marriage. You can still run with your clique; no one's stopping you from doing that. I've only done flashpoints with random people so far and no one that runs only with a select group of people has ever complained that the fact that I've been grouping with random people has had a detrimental impact on their ability to be more discerning. And the first person that does will will be wrong because there's no basis for such an absurd argument.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not against having more/better tools for finding groups. But I am very much against a cross server queue/lobby function.

 

My reason if that I fear such a system would bring preassure to subsequently make the flashpoints trivial in difficulty. And if that happens, there will be no challenging content for casual players.

 

What you see in wow is that the new dungeons released are easy enough to one-shot almost all bosses in a group of complete strangers with little to no communication. Doing the same content with a group of friends is.... just not fun. No challenge whatsoever. Not the least bit interesting.

 

So IF a cross server "dungeon finder" system also means trivial difficulty; then YES such a system affects the people who prefers not using it as well. And for me, it's definately worth "robbing" people of that feature if that feature essentially takes away my fun. Rob them before they rob me :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both darkov and Neverknowenuff listed some pretty specific details about the kind of grouping tool they would like to see. Several others have also expressed support for such a system as long as it's not cross-server. The issue of ninja looting that Empire_of_Dirt specifically mentioned is also on my mind, and I've only played SWTOR for ten days without any looting concern from my previous Guild Wars experience. Andrewie's concern about the pressure to reduce FP difficulty also sounds quite valid. Certainly any grouping tool that reduces the quality of group content will do more harm than good.

 

A couple of responders, on the other hand, seem to simply reject the tool on principle. As others have pointed out, these few not only reject such a system themselves, they don't want others to have it either. I do not feel such selfish objections contribute to the cause against a grouping tool. Perhaps a separate thread of simply voting for or against the tool is more appropriate for it...

 

In any case, this thread has generated some great responses from people with material concerns about the grouping tool. I have learned some new things. It has also shown me that people who reject such a tool due to purely personal distaste are few (or at least, only a few has decided to speak up), and many want a better system, though the exact nature of that is still in debate. I hope more people who have objective concerns will bring it up in this thread. Perhaps even here a compromise can be reached.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It also encourages good behaviour because without a LFG system, you will be accountable for your reputation with your peers. Meaning, if you ninja and need, you'll grow notorious for that **** and be left forever alone eventually.

 

Which is why LFG/Ds should NEVER be cross server.

 

In total agreement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the moment, the abnoxious sith sorcerer who has been there for 5mins spamming "LFG" 5 lines every 30 seconds, can get into a group before someone who has been waiting for like 30min and not being a moron about it.

 

I doubt that. If he was looking for over 5 minutes, this either means a) there were no groups during that time, b) no one wanted to group with him or c) a lot of people already have him on ignore.

 

be a jerk and play alone. be a valuable player and a nice person, and people will ask you directly if you want to group with them. and yes, this works for DDs too.

 

Opposing an LFG tool on the grounds that it will destroy the community and ruin the game is like opposing gay marriage because you think it'll destroy civilization and ruin heterosexual marriage.

 

seriously, I've read a lot of arguments pro/con dungeon finder with a lot of comparisons, but yours won the top spot for being the most rubbish.

so rubbish actually you're a hot contender for the lifetime award....

 

 

Everyone should be able to do any fp at any time of the day/night imo. Having content/entertainment denied just cause the server is dead at weird hours or there doesn't happen to be people caring about what you want to farm is just terrible.

 

yeah, because you can always get a group for every level 24/7 in wow :rolleyes:

 

protip: being one of the rare lvl50 on a server means the pool is equally low in numbers. your math skills should help you figure out the rest.

Edited by Graburr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What they need is just a way to put your name out there saying, "this is my role, and I am looking for this type of group." You should be able to access this window and see who on your server is looking for what. You can message them and see if they wish to join you. This is the proper way to do it in this game. If they released a dungeon finder like wow has, it would really hurt this game in many ways, the most major being (imo) it would lose one of those special somethings that set it apart from current wow implementation.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have no issues with a server LFG tool being added to the game. I don't believe that it would destroy the community aspect of SWTOR at all as long as it was in server. I am very much against the addition of cross-server LFG. Main reasons are because it breeds self entitled a-holes. How polite do you really think people are when there is a damn fine chance the 3 'random' people they are suddenly grouped with will never see them again?

 

This type of freedom is what killed the close knit community in WoW. BEfore cross-server lfg we all knew who the ******es were on our server. You knew who didnt care to understand their characters mechanics. And those were the people who were rightfully ostracized by the community. You were an *** to work with, well you didn't get to run stuff. Ninja looter? Well good luck ever getting anyone to trust you on a run again. With the addition of cross-server LFG it was a crap shoot.

 

It was mostly a safety feature to help ensure that people were somewhat civilized. Because there were consquences to being a douche.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i dont want a dungeon finder, it is a lazy tool for lazy people go out there and and find a group, this isnt wow, you want wow then go back, we dont want here ruining our game.

 

This statement not only conflicts itself -- how exactly does one find a group without tools, random spam -- but basically implies that anyone who disagrees is some kind of "WoW game ruiner".

 

Never played WoW. Don't see why when all of my guildies are at work and I need a group to run a heroic I should be forced to run around spamming. Cross server is bad (and hopefully wouldn't even work with this server layout) and offers nothing good if you are on a high-pop server. While I feel bad for those who aren't, well.... nothing I can do about that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From some of the posts I've seen, it sounds like a lot of people worry that a lfg system will embolden many players to act like jerks without fear of reprisal. I come from a game where the simple party-search system does not grant automatic entry to a group nor anonymity prior to joining. Character name, class, level are all easily seen. People who have a reputation for grieving others, even if just for that day, don't get accepted onto a team or can kicked by the leader if someone makes accusations against him. That's perfectly normal.

 

Even with a system to help people look for groups, there is nothing to stop the group from considering a player's reputation, usefulness, or any other factor. Members can discuss freely whether to accept somone, and the leader can make the choice. I don't know what is it about the WoW system that's so terrible, but any problem it has is most certainly not the norm in MMO.

 

Perhaps some people are thinking about something like a queue system, where a bunch of people line up for some flashpoint or quest, then every 4 in line get grouped together like riding on a roller coaster. That is most definitely a terrible system for game teams and whoever came up with it should be fired.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I play WoW since 2006 and I think that the dungeon finder tool is probably the best thing ever developed. I play the game to do instances, not solo quests, social interaction, PvP or whatever. But I understand that other people might not like instances and like these other things. That's why they are there, to please as many people as possible.

 

Sometimes I get in a bad group. And I don't mean inexperienced players. Those I don't mind. I mean jerks, griefers, trolls, ninjas, rushers, etc. But those are a minority. Most of the time the players behave nicely. And I don't blame the dungeon finder. Those people are not jerks because of the dungeon finder system. They just are. The game had jerks way before the dungeon finder got created.

 

So, live and let live. If you don't like the dungeon finder system, don't use it. If you like it, use it. Simple as that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't oppose a group-searching system. I just oppose a cross-server one.

 

In regards to it just cross server is the easiest way to get screwed out of things because of the typical "I nevar play with u gain, so screw u anywayz."

 

At the same time I don't think it's a necessity. A dungeon finder isn't going to make or break a game, because it's a luxury of convenience. MMOs existed without them before, so just because they were created doesn't mean they are an absolute necessity now. Besides, there's things that take a lot more priority then a luxury of a group finder. When the dust has settled, all the game-breaking bugs are worked out and all the balancing is done, and more of the major expansions have been put to work, THEN a group finder could come into place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...