The thing that strikes me about this thread is this.

 

All the people saying this is a L2play issue are exactly the people who need to L2play, as there sloth like APM and Reaction times shield them from the horrendously slow response times in this game.

 

Still unsubscribed, checking back regularly for updates.

 

G Luck with the thread and getting a response.

He has nothing to add nor is he interested in contributing or understaing the problem. Do what I did and just add him to ignore.

 

His goal is to derail or anger.

 

Indeed I thought I outlined in my post with 2 examples what ability delay is and how it is detrimental to PVE. Entire skills and abilities are basically not useable without instant coordination.

 

I can add the example of force choke -> Pommel Strike

 

Pommel Strike is an instant use Force Choke incapacitates why can't I use force choke and the moment it finishes channleing and my target is getting back to the ground but still incapacitated hit the target with pommel strike? Its an instant cast, It lights up as available to use while Channeling force choke... my target is still incapacitated...

 

It clearly ruins fluid gameplay. Maybe the average player isn't going to pick up on stuff like that maybe its because they don't fully understand what it is all their abilities should be able to do. Maybe they aren't used to instantly reacting to content in raids so they wont notice the delay. But as a min/maxer and as a gamer who looks at all their abilities and thinks rationally about how how those abilities Synergize together or how they could chain together I notice things like that.

Best thread ever. So yesterday i was doing some flashpoints with some friends and i really never noticed the "ability delays" in that way that it reflected on me as a healer (merc). But yesterday i "finally" noticed the delay and my god... This needs some serious attention from the dev crew. I really enjoy this game but this needs to be fixed ASAP.

Honnestly all i hear is "ability delay" this and that but i could live with a 0,2-0,5s delay, its like playing WoW with 400ms. Its not optimal, its annoying and it gives you a disavantage. But i could live with it for the sake of the game, which i otherwise like.

 

BUT

 

The ability plainly not working for several second( see video in OP post ) or triggering an animation in loop without doing anything is UNACEPTABLE.

 

Beside, i invite anyone who claim there is no issue to roll a level 10 Inquistor and try to quickly use shock/recklessness/force lightning and see what i am talking about.

 

tips : if you are not casting recklessness when shock GCD is still active, this is not "quickly" . Disclaimer : recklessness is designed by BIOWARE as an OFF GCD ability.

 

I think the problem is they tried to copy (to some point) WoW combat system (GCD, off GCD kick, off GCD overpower/revenge like ability, off GCD next spell buff or defensive cooldown, standardized casting time) and apply it on an animation based system who cant handle it.

 

Here a BIOWARE customer service answer i got petitioning the previous inquisitor bug.

 

Greetings Vindor,

 

 

I am Protocol Droid U3-K5 of Human-Cyborg Relations...

 

I have received your transmission regarding your inquiry about the skill cooldown time not working properly.

 

We apologize for any inconvenience.

 

But let me just inform you that the game was made to be as real time as possible. That is the case when it comes to cooldown time. For example, you cast a skill that uses a light saber, you need to wait for the animation of that skill to finish before you can cast another skill that uses a light saber. It is the same for skills like force and the likes. Basically in a nutshell, if you are casting a skill that overlaps with another skill (ex. Gun to another Gun skill) the animation has to finish first. And there are other factors involved also, like skill cooldown, channeling etc. This is to make things more realistic and prevent skill spamming as opposed to other games.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if there is anything further we can help you with. Have a good day.

 

Galactic Support is our specialty...

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Protocol Droid U3-K5 (aka Jan)

Star Wars: The Old Republic Customer Service

 

Basicly, they implant a global cooldown, multiple off global cooldown ability and they are telling me that i just have to ignore that and wait for the animations to finish. THIS IS A FAIL ON THEIR PART.

 

Remove the GCD, implant a cooldoww lock depending on every ability animations, remove off GCD ability or FIX your animation.

 

Thank you

I am playing tankspecced juggernaught and this problem is very noticable when tanking several npcs. My so called "instant" attacks getting interrupted, sometimes I can't activate them because I am parrying och dodging attacks(I still see the gcd activation though) so I have to check my quickbar to see if the skill activated or not.

You guys are basicly talking about a 1 or 2 second delay consider urselves lucky when I enter combat in pvp I get like 5 second or 6 second lag I saw a few videos on YouTube that might help so I will try them when I get home and will keep you guys updated if it works or not wish me luck

I completely agree with this post. The character responsiveness is very hard to play through. It's just not enjoyable. Although I do like the game for many reasons, but this one issue will cause me to leave if it's not a top priority at this point.

So if it has to wait for an animation to finish before being able to activate next skill those animations then must be same legnth in time as is the GCD,

 

Also in abilities that dont belong to area of GCD should ignore any animations and just trigger when activated.

 

System should also ignore dodge, parry and such animations and just let the ability to be used.

 

In real life a martial arts master would not say that when he dodges an attack he cant do anything else like attack at that time to get upper hand or so on if you know what i mean.

 

WOW combat is so fluidic because animations are simple and quick and in no way force people to wait few seconds to be able to use an ability. Its a good idea that this system tries to prevent ability bashing but it just makes people to smash buttons even more since they get frustrated for not being able to do an ability.

 

Also especially when playing on Jedi an delay on abilities feels just wrong since i should be above normal reaction times of non-force wielders and being able to do acrobatic combat maneuvers like they did in movies. Most of times i can but in groups and some other areas the delay is untolerable.

 

Also if playing an Smuggler.. Imagine Han Solo kick someone to make them cough and gasp and then planning to shoot that enemy with his blaster only to find out that blaster wont fire without 2-3 second delay (if firing at all)

 

So for sake of fluidic combat that dont feel like sticky tar at times please do attempt to repair this, force is with you on this i suspect.

Greetings Vindor,

 

 

I am Protocol Droid U3-K5 of Human-Cyborg Relations...

 

I have received your transmission regarding your inquiry about the skill cooldown time not working properly.

 

We apologize for any inconvenience.

 

But let me just inform you that the game was made to be as real time as possible. That is the case when it comes to cooldown time. For example, you cast a skill that uses a light saber, you need to wait for the animation of that skill to finish before you can cast another skill that uses a light saber. It is the same for skills like force and the likes. Basically in a nutshell, if you are casting a skill that overlaps with another skill (ex. Gun to another Gun skill) the animation has to finish first. And there are other factors involved also, like skill cooldown, channeling etc. This is to make things more realistic and prevent skill spamming as opposed to other games.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if there is anything further we can help you with. Have a good day.

 

Galactic Support is our specialty...

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Protocol Droid U3-K5 (aka Jan)

Star Wars: The Old Republic Customer Service

 

That email is very concerning to me. I know we are getting very vague responses here from devs as to the issue in their minds; however, this email sounds like their official response.

 

If their response is "GCD is just there for show, you should be watching the animations instead because we here at Bioware are more about pretty than practicality" then...um...no thanks.

 

You will still retain your casuals and your young'ns, but your hardcore and competitive will say, "thanks, but no thanks." Simple as that.

Edited January 2, 2012 by baznasty

 

Update: finally played PvP (since teens) short bit ago. 3 Huttball matches.

 

No ability delay, no problem rattling off combos, no problems hitting moves exaclty when I needed them.

 

Merc arsenal.

 

 

Oh, I also tested what someone claimed, that Vent Heat somehow messes w/ Unload firing off. I doesn't for me.

 

 

So again, PvE through the highest Flashpoints, and now PvP (albeit only 3 matches) I had no problems whatsoever. I also asked in chat, and no one else said had any problems either.

 

 

Maybe other classes have some problems, or certain attacks/powers are problematic, but not for my BH Merc.

 

 

 

 

Update: finally played PvP (since teens) short bit ago. 3 Huttball matches.

 

No ability delay, no problem rattling off combos, no problems hitting moves exaclty when I needed them.

 

Merc arsenal.

 

 

Oh, I also tested what someone claimed, that Vent Heat somehow messes w/ Unload firing off. I doesn't for me.

 

 

So again, PvE through the highest Flashpoints, and now PvP (albeit only 3 matches) I had no problems whatsoever. I also asked in chat, and no one else said had any problems either.

 

 

Maybe other classes have some problems, or certain attacks/powers are problematic, but not for my BH Merc.

 

 

 

 

I know plenty of Bounty Hunters that are haveing issue's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbFgyeRFbdo&context=C3d50270ADOEgsToPDskJYu1y-3uG_uWyCstMK7nMz

Pay attention to all the other Vids at You tube about this.

That email is very concerning to me. I know we are getting very vague responses here from devs as to the issue in their minds; however, this email sounds like their official response.

 

If their response is "GCD is just there for show, you should be watching the animations instead because we here at Bioware are more about pretty than practicality" then...um...no thanks.

 

You will still retain your casuals and your young'ns, but your hardcore and competitive will say, "thanks, but no thanks." Simple as that.

 

 

If that response is real, that is insane.

 

Why even bother having a GCD? If they want people to wait on animations , they need to match every abilities GCD to the animation.

 

And you should not lag out and lose 5-10 seconds if you press a button before an animation is done, that is totally crazy. Input needs to be blocked and send the player some type of noise or message to indicate that.

 

They really screwed up if their intent is to lag players out for pressing a button before a animation ends. This was really stupid.

Maybe other classes have some problems, or certain attacks/powers are problematic, but not for my BH Merc.

You are playing a different game.

If that response is real, that is insane.

 

Why even bother having a GCD? If they want people to wait on animations , they need to match every abilities GCD to the animation.

 

And you should not lag out and lose 5-10 seconds if you press a button before an animation is done, that is totally crazy. Input needs to be blocked and send the player some type of noise or message to indicate that.

 

They really screwed up if their intent is to lag players out for pressing a button before a animation ends. This was really stupid.

 

Exactly. Why the CRAP did they even bother with a GCD if the animations are going to take priority?? They are just creating an artificial timer but in reality even though the timer is gone you still can't use your next ability.

 

This is horrible, and if it's by design there is nothing that is going to save this game.

That email is very concerning to me. I know we are getting very vague responses here from devs as to the issue in their minds; however, this email sounds like their official response.

 

If their response is "GCD is just there for show, you should be watching the animations instead because we here at Bioware are more about pretty than practicality" then...um...no thanks.

 

You will still retain your casuals and your young'ns, but your hardcore and competitive will say, "thanks, but no thanks." Simple as that.

 

Well if this is their official stance then my decision about renewing subscription is pretty much clear and tbh this is all I want from BW. A clear statement that this is the way they meant the game should be played and they dont want to change it. Fair enough I will move along

What it sounds like to me is you had 2 opposing views on the dev team. You had one team that was saying "GCD should be the governing body for moves." Then you had another team saying, "but we want the animations that we spent so much time on to take priority, so forget the GCD and just have animation timers."

 

Then you have someone saying, "let's compromise and use both!" Unfortunately, this is not a place where you can have your cake and eat it too. You must choose one or the other.

 

Having both is one of the most absurd combat choices I have ever seen.

 

Some moves adhere to GCD because it's animation is less than 1.5 seconds. Some moves have animations that are longer than 1.5 seconds; thus, overriding GCD.

 

It's our job as the consumer to know try to figure out which one is really taking precedence on a move-by-move basis. Fun...

What it sounds like to me is you had 2 opposing views on the dev team. You had one team that was saying "GCD should be the governing body for moves." Then you had another team saying, "but we want the animations that we spent so much time on to take priority, so forget the GCD and just have animation timers."

 

Then you have someone saying, "let's compromise and use both!" Unfortunately, this is not a place where you can have your cake and eat it too. You must choose one or the other.

 

Having both is one of the most absurd combat choices I have ever seen.

 

Some moves adhere to GCD because it's animation is less than 1.5 seconds. Some moves have animations that are longer than 1.5 seconds; thus, overriding GCD.

 

It's our job as the consumer to know try to figure out which one is really taking precedence on a move-by-move basis. Fun...

 

Well the biggest problem is if you press a button while an animation is going the game gets unresponsive and lags you out.

 

It would be fine if input was blocked and you got a noise or message indicating that you cannot do another action yet.

I too am highly perturbed by that email.

 

This game is going to crash and burn horribly if that really is the official view on this. I hope I'm wrong. And its not the people in this thread who they will notice leaving - its the countless others who just feel the game doesn't 'feel' right but aren't sure why. But it will be this issue, the elusive disconnect and clunkiness caused by a combination of all of the above. I'll say it again, most average gamers can't see the wood because of the trees but this issue will be the main reason everyone is moaning.

 

From a basic perspective, the combat and the feedback you get from executing your abilities is the ultimate hook in any MMO even if you don't realise it. The rewards, the gear, the new skills all follow on from that, but they don't matter if the stuff you are doing constantly (killing mobs/other players) doesn't inherently feel fun and satisfying.

I agree with some of the points the OP made.

Yes SWTOR restricts you from clipping animations. Thats about the only thing he was correct about.

 

WoW wasn't any better then SWTOR. In WoW you have a full .5 sec before the server would even register that you had cast a spell. So it didn't really matter if you can clip animations or not when the initial response is a half a second or better.

 

Guild Wars was the only game that actually had responsive character interaction. In Guild Wars you could effectively interrupt spells with .5 sec casts. Try doing that in WoW and watch your interrupt fail. Even Rift was better then WoW.

 

I won't deny that SWTOR has its flaws but this is not an issue that bioware should even consider. They should work on all of the graphical glitches, loading problems, and bracketing PVP before they worry about animation clipping.

I too am highly perturbed by that email.

 

This game is going to crash and burn horribly if that really is the official view on this. I hope I'm wrong. And its not the people in this thread who they will notice leaving - its the countless others who just feel the game doesn't 'feel' right but aren't sure why. But it will be this issue, the elusive disconnect and clunkiness caused by a combination of all of the above. I'll say it again, most average gamers can't see the wood because of the trees but this issue will be the main reason everyone is moaning.

 

From a basic perspective, the combat and the feedback you get from executing your abilities is the ultimate hook in any MMO even if you don't realise it. The rewards, the gear, the new skills all follow on from that, but they don't matter if the stuff you are doing constantly (killing mobs/other players) doesn't inherently feel fun and satisfying.

 

I honestly think if they wanted us to sit back and watch animations, bioware should have made the game turn based.

That answer you got for your petition just sounds like an automated message by answer bot. Same that the one in WOW that tell you to update your drivers

 

Still it sounds a bit confused and concerning. Why would you do animations that over-ride an GCD or last longer than GCD if they are over-riding GCD or why do GCD at all if all yous should be concerned is animation.

 

As side not i did an Heroic mission today and while there was this delay present at times it worked as well as it works in WOW at times so go figure out why this happens.

Yeah it is crisp. I found DaOC to be the next closest then Rift as far as that responsiveness.

 

daoc <3

This thread gets my support, this issue is VERY annoying.

Best post ever. I have competitively played MMO's for a long time and i immediately recognized the problem with the combat system. My younger brother is also playing SWTOR and it is his 1st MMO. He knew there was a problem but couldn't exactly pinpoint the exact problem and thought it was just lag. When I explained the problem to him, he immediately decided this was a major oversight in game development.

 

So there you have it: A newcomer and an experienced MMO gamer both agree that the combat needs to be more responsive, and that animations are less important.

If that response is real, that is insane.

 

Why even bother having a GCD? If they want people to wait on animations , they need to match every abilities GCD to the animation.

 

It is also nonsense. The Sith Juggernaut's Ravage ability is channelled but can usually be interrupted by another skill... except when it plays the animation but does no damage at all (during which time you can't even move your character).

 

Retaliation can also be used during the animation of any other skill... the problem is, sometimes it can't be used while my character is just stood there not doing anything at all! Press the button once, twice, three... spam the hell out of the button and get no response, even though it has been lit up for the best part of 6 seconds and my character is stood idle like a goon.

 

Occasionally I can play for 30 minutes without suffering one animation lock, or one 'dead skill' but there are also times when instant skills like Retaliation refuse to trigger no matter how many times I hammer the button.