I'm sending my stuff on infiltration to dulfy tomorrow and we might need to make some last adjustments but that'll be done soon.

After that I'll see what I can do for Serenity/Hatred.. but I'm not a PvE number cruncher for that spec.

I can play it to a very high standard in PvP, but I wouldn't say my approach would get you the best single target boss DPS at all times.

Probably not relevant anymore, no. Although nothing much has changed for Deception.

For what formerly was Madness... everything changed.

Probably not relevant anymore, no. Although nothing much has changed for Deception.

For what formerly was Madness... everything changed.

Would you say that alacrity benefits a PVP Deception build?

Would you say that alacrity benefits a PVP Deception build?

Na, not really. Deception only has it's burst.. no point gearing towards stuff that's supposed to increase your sustained output. The only reason you would gear alacrity is to get a significant enough amount of it to really reduce the GCD/Low Slash Cooldown by a lot.

Na, not really. Deception only has it's burst.. no point gearing towards stuff that's supposed to increase your sustained output. The only reason you would gear alacrity is to get a significant enough amount of it to really reduce the GCD/Low Slash Cooldown by a lot.

Kinda what i figured, thanks!

I'm sending my stuff on infiltration to dulfy

I can't help but find it amusing that someone who so vehemently insists that deception is utterly useless trash is going to write a guide on it. Honestly, if it was as bad as you keep saying there wouldn't be any point into writing that, now would there?

I can't help but find it amusing that someone who so vehemently insists that deception is utterly useless trash is going to write a guide on it. Honestly, if it was as bad as you keep saying there wouldn't be any point into writing that, now would there?

There's more than just PvP bud

Besides, I know pretty much everything there is to know about the spec.

So sharing that knowledge is only natural to me.

There's more than just PvP bud

 

Besides, I know pretty much everything there is to know about the spec.

So sharing that knowledge is only natural to me.

Yes there is, but if deception were as terrible as you keep claiming then surely it'd be equally as useless in PvE as it was in PvP. From the way I see it deception isn't nearly as bad off as you keep claiming, you're just trying to argue that it's in such a terrible state to justify the usage of hatred.

Yes there is, but if deception were as terrible as you keep claiming then surely it'd be equally as useless in PvE as it was in PvP. From the way I see it deception isn't nearly as bad off as you keep claiming, you're just trying to argue that it's in such a terrible state to justify the usage of hatred.

You keep bringing up a dead argument. I havn't even released the guide yet and you're already bloating **** that doesn't even apply.

It IS thrash in PvE, but it still has some nichés.

There you go, happy now?

Jezus christ man, give it a rest already.

You keep bringing up a dead argument. I havn't even released the guide yet and you're already bloating **** that doesn't even apply.

 

It IS thrash in PvE, but it still has some nichés.

There you go, happy now?

 

Jezus christ man, give it a rest already.

Nah, I don't think I will. Primarily because the spec isn't nearly as bad as you keep claiming, and partially because your reply posts are rather amusing.

unluckily the actual spot for Infiltration is not so good..and I'm a *** of it, trust me, I still updating my guide for it because I love it but now (well..since 2.8 tbh) I play Serenity for PvE unless there are some burst issues dependent by the fight.

Also PvP, Serenity is the king. No way. But I play sometimes Infiltration to get fun and play bursty..ninja nodes..1on1 etc. at least this..

Infiltration can do things, never claimed otherwise. But anyone playing Infiltration would do 4 times as well if they would play Serenity regardless of what they are doing.

Because Infiltration, isn't going to do this.

Infiltration can do things, never claimed otherwise. But anyone playing Infiltration would do 4 times as well if they would play Serenity regardless of what they are doing.

 

Because Infiltration, isn't going to do this.

 

 

And given the fact that half that game was a 3v4; I could've done 3.5k++ if they had all stayed alive.

yeah this is not gonna happen at all but it's RIGHT..like this..a burst spec must not do this sustain dps

yeah this is not gonna happen at all but it's RIGHT..like this..a burst spec must not do this sustain dps

Yeah that wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for the fact that Serenity can burst just as hard.. or even harder than Infiltration. It just requires setuptime, which is literally the only drawback.

Yeah that wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for the fact that Serenity can burst just as hard.. or even harder than Infiltration. It just requires setuptime, which is literally the only drawback.

idd, that's why people is whining about it

Yeah that wouldn't be such a problem if it wasn't for the fact that Serenity can burst just as hard.. or even harder than Infiltration. It just requires setuptime, which is literally the only drawback.

It still can't burst quite as hard. Almost, yes, but the amount of setup also kills your sustained damage. Given the same number of criticals and the same number of GCDs, Hatred still can't match Deception's burst, so unless you literally have nothing to deal damage to, or you're trying to coordinate a massive burn on a target, you're better off not trying to maximize burst in Hatred. Especially considering the way you maximize Hatred's burst is by abusing the not-fully-thought-through way they coded the Raze reset.

I'm finally getting the chance today to work on that code I wanted to, so maybe we'll be lucky and I'll be done by tonight. I've started the pseudocode, but it might take a while because I'm helping prep for a big holiday gathering today (and the next few days) in a house still under renovation, and so it might not be done as soon as I'd like.

As for answering OP's question: Xinika's guides, MKnightrider's guides and the Mitigation Tanking guide are all somewhat out of date, though there is still some good information in there. General ideas and concepts still hold, but rotations and gearing suggestions probably don't, but I haven't read through them all extensively, and can't say for sure.

Infiltration can do things, never claimed otherwise. But anyone playing Infiltration would do 4 times as well if they would play Serenity regardless of what they are doing.

 

Because Infiltration, isn't going to do this.

 

 

And given the fact that half that game was a 3v4; I could've done 3.5k++ if they had all stayed alive.

Of course deception can't pull the same overall numbers. Not only does hatred have a hard hitting AoE as part of its main rotation but said AoE also spreads dots (which is a *********** stupid mechanic in and of itself) to anyone that gets hit by it. A lot of that overall damage though, is nothing but pure fluff. Creeping terror and discharge by themselves are nothing more than a tiny nuisance that can be negated by an AoE heal or two every now and then. So let's say that a hatred sin pulls 2k dps in a civil war. Of that 2k probably a good 400-600 dps is from nothing but death field's AoE and the spreaded dots ticking on people and ending up doing nothing but adding a but of extra damage to the scoreboard, leaving you with 1,400-1,600 effective dps.

Whereas on the other hand if I pull 1,400-1,600 dps in deception than most, if not all, of that dps is effective. So really, the advantage that hatred has of spreading dots really isn't anything more than fluff unless you start stacking sins, but if we're talking a single sin it's just an annoyance. Hatred simply has more options to stay at range if necessary as well as being able to heal itself. Now, no one is saying that hatred doesn't need a nerf, because it certainly does, but it's not utterly eclipsing deception like certain people would like to have everyone believe.

There is no such thing as "ineffective dps". It still has to be healed.

It's called pressure.

Serenity is essentially the same as WoW's Affliction Warlock.

Do you think they see that damage as "fluff"? Lol please.

I advise you to watch the highlight again. And then ask yourself why it is that we won that round.

There is no such thing as "ineffective dps".

Yes there is. It's the same thing as in raids how people always talk about HPS versus eHPS. If the damage from those two dots can be healed from an AoE heal that was going to be thrown out anyways then that damage is nothing but scoreboard fluff. The only point to dot spreading is to make target swapping easy for dot specs, which is something I personally disagree with but whatever.

Now if we're talking PvE than yes, the dot spreading is 100% effective dps because PvE mods don't get healed.

You realise that AoE heals in this game have a cooldown right, and my DoT's don't?

You also realise that 3.5k DPS is pretty much 900 DPS per target? Your AoE heals don't do 900 HPS per target permanently.

Your argument is invalid.

You realise that AoE heals in this game have a cooldown right, and my DoT's don't?

 

You also realise that 3.5k DPS is pretty much 900 DPS per target? Your AoE heals don't do 900 HPS per target permanently.

 

Your argument is invalid.

You realize that your spreading of dots has a cooldown, right? You realize that your dots aren't doing 900 dps all by themselves, right?

Your argument is invalid.

Come back when your skills aren't slipping cupcake.

You realize that your spreading of dots has a cooldown, right? You realize that your dots aren't doing 900 dps all by themselves, right?

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

Come back when your skills aren't slipping cupcake.

It's still 900 DPS per target. I never said it was from DoTs alone.

And DoTs have a 90% uptime, so cooldown? Ehm not really.