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Bug hunt XP Nerf?


Ordealis

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Many of us don't have the luxury of time to slowly level each alt to 70. Please consider to return us back the bug hunt experience. Don't ask us to buy 16 master datacrons, because it is just ridiculous.

 

Fortunately, nothing about leveling in this game is slow. You can hit level 70 in a matter of days, and no other game available out there right now will allow you to level from 1 to end game more quickly and easily than SWTOR. They aren't asking you to buy 16 master's datacrons, and suggesting that they are is what is truly ridiculous. They couldn't allow the speed of experience gain that this provided to continue once they started adding conquest points to the mix as well. People took advantage of this to level characters faster than the developers intended you to level for 3 years. People took advantage of this to level Command Ranks faster than the developers intended you to level CXP ranks for 3 years. Once conquest points were added to the mix, they deemed it necessary to fix to keep from breaking another system and not allowing people to continue to use this heroic area in ways that they did not intend.

 

But the good news is this: There are apparently other areas where you can do nothing but sit in a group and be virtually AFK while people farm kills... and even if you play other parts of the game - you won't find an easier, quicker leveling experience than SWTOR (and with absolutely no need to ever buy a Master's Datacron).

 

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A bold claim...

 

There are other avenues to increase XP gained outside of double XP.

 

You can go into your legacy and open up XP bonuses for each character that suits your play style.

 

So if you only pvp, you can open up all the XP booster lvls for pvp. If you only pve, you can open up the story XP boosts and the exploration boosts, if you play all content, you can open them all up,

 

Then you have the boosters you get for free every mile stone as you lvl up.

And.... if people were smart and really wanted to lvl faster in double XP, they could have done all of the above too.

 

Leveling up in swtor is no where near the chore it used to be. But I do feel for people who’ve done all the vanilla, Makeb, Revan and the last two patches many times.

 

I myself have over 60 Alts, but have delete another 100 Alts. I used to just lvl up my Alts in pvp because I’d done everything else so many times that it was boring. But since 5.0, people stopped lvling up in pvp because Bioware removed the end game gearing system from lowbie pvp. So people felt they had to rush to lvl 70 the fastest way to get the grinding started as quick as possible.

 

During the last Double XP event I did take advantage to lvl up some Alts using the bug hunt because my preferred lvling method became unviable. If Bioware reinvigorated lowbie pvp lvling, then it would give people like myself another avenue to lvl up and we wouldn’t need things like bug hunt.

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A bold claim...

 

I only claim it because I've done it, quite a few times, and never had to use Bug Hunt to do it. I haven't played every single game out there, but as a woman of a certain age... I've been around and played enough of them to know - SWTOR is the easiest leveling experience I've ever had in an MMO. I will happily stand corrected if there is an MMO out there that's easier, but I've never heard of one that is.

 

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No no, there are 6 group mobs of champion level bugs in one room, plus the group you can drag into the room, and the Queen respawns periodically as well.

 

 

 

They nerfed grouping and killing the same enemies over and over, so I imagine Imp Hunt is nerfed as well. At least, there weren't any groups when I asked.

 

The real irony here is that I've played MMOs where that's the only way you can level. They're called Korean Grinders, and frankly, I came here to get away from all that. Back in the ancient days of Rappelz, for example, you went from 80 to 120 doing your Bug Hunt. The catch being, you could grind for an hour and gain 1% of a level. Don't die, because if you die, you lose 4% xp, and while a healer res can preserve about 15% of that, you're still looking at a net loss for the hour.

 

So you'll pardon me if I don't find your "innovative way to level" either innovative, or entertaining. I've been there, done that, got a few t-shirts, some caps and a hoodie. I say irony here because Rappelz got around to adding quests to improve the leveling curve, and here, everyone's going "old school".

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I welcome the chance to do the heroics with bonus missions as intended without an ops group storming through killing all the mobs.

 

Thanks, devs!

 

Yes, I'm sure you're doing those 2 heroics regularly during double xp, and desperately need those 2 missions :rolleyes:

 

The real irony here is that I've played MMOs where that's the only way you can level. They're called Korean Grinders, and frankly, I came here to get away from all that. Back in the ancient days of Rappelz, for example, you went from 80 to 120 doing your Bug Hunt. The catch being, you could grind for an hour and gain 1% of a level. Don't die, because if you die, you lose 4% xp, and while a healer res can preserve about 15% of that, you're still looking at a net loss for the hour.

 

So you'll pardon me if I don't find your "innovative way to level" either innovative, or entertaining. I've been there, done that, got a few t-shirts, some caps and a hoodie. I say irony here because Rappelz got around to adding quests to improve the leveling curve, and here, everyone's going "old school".

 

I leveled 25+ toons through the normal story, and frankly, I'm tired of space barring through cutscenes seen a million times, facerolling through braindead planetary combat, and endless loading screens. So I prefer a nice quick mindless Bug Hunt grind.

 

But I wasn't posting to convert anyone to this leveling method. It's just a simple fact that during each and every double XP event post-4.0 there have been Bug Hunt and Imp Hunt groups on Balmorra and Nar Shadaa respectively. We wear our DVL armor, and use an XP boost, and max out a toon to 70 in 3-ish hours.

 

The devs nerfed our 24-man Bug Hunt "raids" for the new wackadoo bug-ridden laggy Conquest XP system. Many of us are disappointed, especially since we had planned to level a couple more toons leading up to the new expansion. Unfortunately, this was an abrupt and unannounced change in the latest patch.

 

Honestly, I don't even understand why the devs are changing this sort of thing at all before 6.0.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Yes, I'm sure you're doing those 2 heroics regularly during double xp, and desperately need those 2 missions :rolleyes:

 

 

 

I leveled 25+ toons through the normal story, and frankly, I'm tired of space barring through cutscenes seen a million times, facerolling through braindead planetary combat, and endless loading screens. So I prefer a nice quick mindless Bug Hunt grind.

 

But I wasn't posting to convert anyone to this leveling method. It's just a simple fact that during each and every double XP event post-4.0 there have been Bug Hunt and Imp Hunt groups on Balmorra and Nar Shadaa respectively. We wear our DVL armor, and use an XP boost, and max out a toon to 70 in 3-ish hours.

 

The devs nerfed our 24-man Bug Hunt "raids" for the new wackadoo bug-ridden laggy Conquest XP system. Many of us are disappointed, especially since we had planned to level a couple more toons leading up to the new expansion. Unfortunately, this was an abrupt and unannounced change in the latest patch.

 

Honestly, I don't even understand why the devs are changing this sort of thing at all before 6.0.

 

Because they feel like it's being abused? I guess that's one way to look at it. To me? It's hilarious that people are here complaining that grinding is nerfed in a game where, for the sake of just leveling, it's not even needed. Take advantage of those groups, run some FPs, or some Ops, it's not like you're high enough, starting out, to worry about MM/NiM stuff, right?

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Because they feel like it's being abused? I guess that's one way to look at it. To me? It's hilarious that people are here complaining that grinding is nerfed in a game where, for the sake of just leveling, it's not even needed. Take advantage of those groups, run some FPs, or some Ops, it's not like you're high enough, starting out, to worry about MM/NiM stuff, right?

 

There's no abuse. It's as if the devs suddenly decide after 3-ish years that we are using the Double XP event TOO efficiently...?

:rak_02:

 

The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to nerf "account sellers." But I'm not sure there's much of a market for that these days with out dwindled player numbers.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Uhhh. Sounds like pretty standard communication to me:

 

-we found a part of the game that is unintended

-we fixed the unintended issue

 

There is no need to communicate the change in advance, as it likely wouldve resulted in more people using the unintended feature before its removal. As far as them not communicating it prior to this thread, thats not true. They notified everyone with the actual, obvious change in game.

 

Is this how your version of "pretty standard communication" works? Not telling anyone anything?

 

They admitted that they had known about players farming XP in this manner for some time...this is not something new they just came across. It has literally been going on for years. Unless you believe them all completely ignorant, it's likely they knew about it for the majority of that time. I'm also certain that it was an unintended situation, but they let it go for a long time because it made players happy and didn't substantially impact any other game system. With that no longer being the case, they made changes. Fine with me, I understand the reasoning behind that and making the fix makes perfect sense.

 

Bug Hunts were full, in multiple groups, every single double XP week. I've never seen a Bug Hunt group happen without double XP being in effect. Since the changes were made at the same time that double XP went live, how do you reason that tons of players would suddenly start using it without double XP?

 

Making a change without telling anyone is not, in any way, a form of communication. If the state that you lived in changed a law to force you to renew the registration on your car every month, but didn't tell you about it, and showed up six months later while you were at work and just took your "unregistered" car away, how would you feel? Like the state effectively communicated the change in the law by taking you car?

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There's no abuse. It's as if the devs suddenly decide after 3-ish years that we are using the Double XP event TOO efficiently...?

:rak_02:

 

The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to nerf "account sellers." But I'm not sure there's much of a market for that these days with out dwindled player numbers.

Thats poor logic. There are only a finite number of hours in the day the NEW devs can work on creating new content, learning the old, poorly written code, and foxing bugs or features they dont feel belong in their game. Just because something was put into the game in the past by different devs, who had a different goal and/or vision, doesnt mean the devs that follow will feel the same way. See conquest, see companions, see content updates, etc etc. None of those changes happened on day 1 of the new devs being hired. It takes resources to make changes, and there are different challenges based on the change that is being planned. Personally, i think 6.0 is their "baby" as they have had a chance to really fix and hone a lot of the systems that they didnt agree with, and now it will be their big chapter that they have had substantial time to truly develop with the different systems in place that they intended. Some players are just unwilling to understand that the devs made the change because they felt it was a needed change, and had the means/resources to do it at this time. It still doesnt prevent any of the players from achieving the ultimate goal of getting to level 70, though.

Edited by olagatonjedi
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Bug Hunts were full, in multiple groups, every single double XP week. I've never seen a Bug Hunt group happen without double XP being in effect. Since the changes were made at the same time that double XP went live, how do you reason that tons of players would suddenly start using it without double XP?

 

Making a change without telling anyone is not, in any way, a form of communication. If the state that you lived in changed a law to force you to renew the registration on your car every month, but didn't tell you about it, and showed up six months later while you were at work and just took your "unregistered" car away, how would you feel? Like the state effectively communicated the change in the law by taking you car?

Ever heard the famous saying, "its easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"? Its true in many facets of life. This change is a perfect example. They addressed the change after the fact, but its not as though it wouldve been overlooked, and telling someone ahead of time wouldnt have changed anything anyways, so there really was no need. Ask yourself - would you have respected them more for telling you, or would you still be crying about the change? Anyone can see your passion is far more about the change itself than the way it came about. They would've gained nothing by alerting players of the change prior to its release. Thats obvious.

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Thats poor logic. There are only a finite number of hours in the day the NEW devs can work on creating new content, learning the old, poorly written code, and foxing bugs or features they dont feel belong in their game. Just because something was put into the game in the past by different devs, who had a different goal and/or vision, doesnt mean the devs that follow will feel the same way. See conquest, see companions, see content updates, etc etc. None of those changes happened on day 1 of the new devs being hired. It takes resources to make changes, and there are different challenges based on the change that is being planned. Personally, i think 6.0 is their "baby" as they have had a chance to really fix and hone a lot of the systems that they didnt agree with, and now it will be their big chapter that they have had substantial time to truly develop with the different systems in place that they intended. Some players are just unwilling to understand that the devs made the change because they felt it was a needed change, and had the means/resources to do it at this time. It still doesnt prevent any of the players from achieving the ultimate goal of getting to level 70, though.

 

Are you suggesting Keith fired the whole team when he took over? That would be strange since the issues seems to stem from management/Irving decisions that brought the game into state it was in in 5.0.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Remember when Eric Musco swore to us that if a patch made a change that wasn't documented in the patch notes, that it was unintended and a bug? Pepperidge Farm remembers!

 

Jokes aside, I understand why they did this, now that they've tied gaining Conquest points to gaining XP/CXP points. I'm not bothered by the change personally. It seems reasonable enough to me. However, comma... we keep being promised that the devs won't make stealth nerfs to the game, and yet they keep happening over and over and over again. Some such stealth nerfs are claimed to be "unintended" yet they never get fixed to EA's advantage (like how the mission for completing a Conquest for the first time on a toon stopped giving a Chance Cube like a year ago). You can't build trust this way. At this rate Keith and company will never get mine back.

Edited by AscendingSky
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Remember when Eric Musco swore to us that if a patch made a change that wasn't documented in the patch notes, that it was unintended and a bug? Pepperidge Farm remembers!

 

Jokes aside, I understand why they did this, now that they've tied gaining Conquest points to gaining XP/CXP points. I'm not bothered by the change personally. It seems reasonable enough to me. However, comma... we keep being promised that the devs won't make stealth nerfs to the game, and yet they keep happening over and over and over again. Some such stealth nerfs are claimed to be "unintended" yet they never get fixed to EA's advantage (like how the mission for completing a Conquest for the first time on a toon stopped giving a Chance Cube like a year ago). You can't build trust this way. At this rate Keith and company will never get mine back.

 

The only thing that would have changed about this thread if they'd announced it beforehand is that there wouldn't be any references to not being told before hand. Other than that, most of these posts would appear verbatim. It's a classic Catch 22.

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Ever heard the famous saying, "its easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"? Its true in many facets of life. This change is a perfect example. They addressed the change after the fact, but its not as though it wouldve been overlooked, and telling someone ahead of time wouldnt have changed anything anyways, so there really was no need. Ask yourself - would you have respected them more for telling you, or would you still be crying about the change? Anyone can see your passion is far more about the change itself than the way it came about. They would've gained nothing by alerting players of the change prior to its release. Thats obvious.

 

I'm curious as to how you draw your conclusion that I'm more upset about the change than the lack of communication when both of my posts specifically state the opposite. I did the Bug Hunt once, specifically because I found the class I was playing tedious and wanted to see if it was better with more skills at a higher level. Won't miss it at all now that it's gone, and I totally understand why they made the changes they made to it. (Fairly certain that will be the third time I've typed that.)

 

I guess they don't really have to tell us anything, so we should just thank our lucky stars that Keith poked his head into this thread to address the change, right? When they have a self-stated goal on improving communication, it seems to me that skipping opportunities to do so for no apparent reason are hypocritical. What they would have gained by alerting players in advance of the change is a little bit of trust that they are following through on improving communication. Picture this in the patch notes:

 

  • Using the "Question of Motivation" area on Balmorra for XP farming (a.k.a. - The Bug Hunt) has caused some issues with Conquest XP accumulation. As such, we have adjusted the XP amounts in this area down for large groups.

 

Specific problem, reason for change, everyone knows it's coming, so no one is left wondering why a change was made without any notice. Even something a year or so ago to the effect of: "We know people are using that area on Balmorra for XP farming. It's something we're looking into correcting in a future update." Good enough. I absolutely would have respected them more for telling us in advance.

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Are you suggesting Keith fired the whole team when he took over? That would be strange since the issues seems to stem from management/Irving decisions that brought the game into state it was in in 5.0.

The majority of the issues this game has are from dev teams that are no longer part of the team.

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  • 1 month later...
It "snuck out"? What does that even mean here? :confused::confused::confused:

 

It means they have absolutely no change control. Their leadership(if you choose to give them that name) has no idea what exactly is being changed. This would partly explain why they have so many bugs get through to live.

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Yes, I'm sure you're doing those 2 heroics regularly during double xp, and desperately need those 2 missions :rolleyes:

 

 

 

I leveled 25+ toons through the normal story, and frankly, I'm tired of space barring through cutscenes seen a million times, facerolling through braindead planetary combat, and endless loading screens. So I prefer a nice quick mindless Bug Hunt grind.

 

But I wasn't posting to convert anyone to this leveling method. It's just a simple fact that during each and every double XP event post-4.0 there have been Bug Hunt and Imp Hunt groups on Balmorra and Nar Shadaa respectively. We wear our DVL armor, and use an XP boost, and max out a toon to 70 in 3-ish hours.

 

The devs nerfed our 24-man Bug Hunt "raids" for the new wackadoo bug-ridden laggy Conquest XP system. Many of us are disappointed, especially since we had planned to level a couple more toons leading up to the new expansion. Unfortunately, this was an abrupt and unannounced change in the latest patch.

 

Honestly, I don't even understand why the devs are changing this sort of thing at all before 6.0.

 

what is going to happen is many of the people forced to go through those fp's and heroics are NOT going to wait on the story dweebs wanting to read the text. They are gonna kick their behinds out faster than you can read this message, and I for one will laugh at their tears. Do FP's and heroics like they were intended...with a spacebar.

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what is going to happen is many of the people forced to go through those fp's and heroics are NOT going to wait on the story dweebs wanting to read the text. They are gonna kick their behinds out faster than you can read this message, and I for one will laugh at their tears. Do FP's and heroics like they were intended...with a spacebar.

 

I initiate kicks (and they always succeed) on players who caps lock SPACEBAR all over the chat and bully people who play content the way it was actually intended - with a focus on the story told. You go play some crappy asian grindfest MMO. Those were done for people with your idea of "entertainment". SWTOR has not invested a ridiculous amount of money on story based cinematics including voice acting in several languages because they intended players to skip that. If they still do, fine for them, but leave others alone who want to play the game the way it was very obviously meant to be played.

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