Hey everyone - Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

So now a group of players can take some poor player in the open world or WZ and stun he/she in turn forever

wihtout the other player beeing able to do anything but uninstal the game ? Could be wrong but thats how it sounds.

Stun-resolve builds after those seconds the player can be stunned again.

Ultimate gank fest in this stunlocking hell !

The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

Yes, we know......you act like we didn't read what you posted.

The problem isn't that someone got lots of resolve fast and thus unstoppable, the problem is that we are getting stunned left and right and can't move. All you've done is insure that we will continue to be stunned as long as possible under a coordinated attack, even if the attack isn't coordinated.

So let me make it a bit clearer.

Pre 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.

Pre 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can only stun lock you for 4 seconds because they stacked your resolve and gives you a slim chance to do something to survive.

Pre 1.4 Average stun-lock = 6 seconds (assuming 50% likelihood of each scenario)

Post 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.

Post 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can now stun lock you for 8 seconds because your resolve isn't filling up as fast, and you die.

Post 1.4 Average stun-lock = 8 seconds

As you can see with this remarkably simple analysis/math, the players are going to be stunned MORE ON AVERAGE after the patch, although the MAXIMUM REMAINS UNCHANGED.

We can debate all day about the merits of it, but the math is the math is the math. The average stun lock increases Post 1.4. It isn't hard man.

Edit: It's clear that you believe the problem is that we don't have enough stun-locking in PvP to reduce the effectiveness of certain classes; hence your focus on making more time available to be stunned. In exchange, you shorten the range of some stuns (snipers/gunslingers get to keep their 30m stun, while sorc/sage do not despite wearing light armor) and nerf the effectiveness of the knockback by making it frontal only based.

Maybe instead of making it easier to stunlock classes that appear to be "overpowered" (and for god's sake don't say you don't know which ones are overpowered, its the classes everyone spams in general chat looking for for ranked warzones), perhaps either lower their dps or increase the dps/CC/armor/whatever of the underpowered classes that are not wanted for ranked warzones. Geez man, it's pretty simple stuff. Instead you just made it so that on average people are going to be stunned more (yes, as I said before, the max remains unchanged).

Patch 1.4 should take the least desired PvP class and throw them a few buffs that are amplified based upon +expertise (this way it doesn't impact PvE). Done, move on to the next one. See how smart that was? I didn't do anything to PvE, and I didn't nerf anyone. Amazing, I know.

if people would actually read what they said:

 

 

 

they WANT you to actually have to make a decision, rather than being able to use it without thinking about how it impacts those not your primary focus/target.

 

the change is directly in line with their stated philosophy.

If that is the case give me force wave out of the back 120 instead of front. I want to be able to escape.

The issue is that many people don't want WOW's verions of dual speccing.. A convenient little button that changes our gear, button bars, and spec, all in a single painless click.. I don't see what is wrong with what we have now?? If Dual speccing is to expenesinve then do it less.. The cost resets every week.. I think people should be thankful they can do it at all.. If I had my way, it would go back to what it was in WOW BC.. Go see your trainer and pay a large fee to have your talents reset.. I think what we have now is a fair compromise..

Honestly if you want to pay to respec and go through the hassle each time, go for it, more power to you. It obviously doesn't affect you much. However, those of us who wish to bring the best to everything that we do, will respec and do it often. How does my ease of use lower your gameplay? If you want to RP that you are just one thing and be carried either in PvE or PvP (yes there are talents in every tree useful for one and wasted on the other) go for it I just hope I never have you in my guild.

TL:DR I don't understand the opposition,if you want to RP one spec go for it, don't punish the rest of us

Hmm Overload and Force Wave have been redesigned gr8 but why the same ability for Comando merc ist redesigned ? Thats balance.

Well as Sorc u allow me to run faster so i can use force speed 10 sec faster hmm gr8 well after i die i can get back to combat fasters = marauders and powertech can kill me more times gr8 for them.

Seriously dont u see what happening on PVP only usable Sorc that now can survive for bit longer is healer. DPS dies just instantly. Also if u take all 3 healers Socerer dies fastest. ATM i thing that Comando/Merc healer is teh hardest to kill and he is getting buffs to be even better.

Well i guess there are not enoght Powertech Vanguard Comando Merc on the servers so You have to boost them so ppl will start creating them and play longer and pay more .

Or maby the whole development team play those class and there fore it needs to be stronger then other.

Hmm Overload and Force Wave have been redesigned gr8 but why the same ability for Comando merc ist redesigned ? Thats balance.

if you wanna make everyone the same, then yeah, go ahead and change merc KB to cone, and then give them a sprint on a 20s cooldown. I'd happily take that.

The problem isn't that someone got lots of resolve fast and thus unstoppable, the problem is that we are getting stunned left and right and can't move. All you've done is insure that we will continue to be stunned as long as possible under a coordinated attack, even if the attack isn't coordinated.

 

So let me make it a bit clearer.

 

Pre 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.

Pre 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can only stun lock you for 4 seconds because they stacked your resolve and gives you a slim chance to do something to survive.

Pre 1.4 Average stun-lock = 6 seconds (assuming 50% likelihood of each scenario)

 

Post 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.

Post 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can now stun lock you for 8 seconds because your resolve isn't filling up as fast, and you die.

Post 1.4 Average stun-lock = 8 seconds

 

As you can see with this remarkably simple analysis/math, the players are going to be stunned MORE ON AVERAGE after the patch, although the MAXIMUM REMAINS UNCHANGED.

Yep. More stuns.

merc can't get away after a knockback.

 

if you wanna make everyone the same, then yeah, go ahead and change merc KB to cone, and then give them a sprint on a 20s cooldown. I'd happily take that.

Hey, you there in the heavy armor! Yeah, you! You are wearing heavy armor. Maybe you didn't notice.

Well I read this over two or three times, I am truly happy with the changes. I'll have to see how they effect PVE, but I do like the changes to the stuns and even the resolve system fix where chain stunning causes the bar to fill up, that was a pain when everyone was stunning... So overall this becomes more friendly for PVP and I quite like that as there's still some things in PVP I still feel need addressed.

I think any of the break stun abilities need to have a better cool-down in particular, even as a Tank in PVE or PVP getting stunned and staying stunned is entirely possible and the cool-down on the break-out ability sort of hinders that. At least that would fix some of the issue with the ridiculously long stuns in PVP and help PVE at the same time.

Beyond that, I really don't have any complaints, I'll just have to see how it is when it comes to the server.

Edit - Maybe also including a 3-4 second period where you can't be stunned again after use of the ability?

I just really feel, prior to trying the changes, that any change to a popular PVE solo mechanic like stealth or wave is really not the best idea in the world. Yes, the changes for PVP are positive, and perhaps needed to be made to make pvp more palatable, but you are changing two early iconic specials for classes that define that class, and that is not wise IMO.

It would have been far wiser to either offer a different special that would only work in PVP and set the current one to only work in PVE OR just make the changes only in effect during PVP.

This could potentially ruin the classes that use these specials for those that prefer the PVE leveling experience.

In the live game, being affected by two stuns simultaneously only controls you for 4 seconds, but it gives you full Resolve. To be plain, this makes escaping a rampaging melee player very, very difficult. It's directly related to concerns we see regarding overpowered melee and them being inescapable. Going immune after only 4 seconds of control strongly favors the one being controlled.

Sorry, I play a Marauder and I'm going to have to disagree with this. Here's the reason why: you're talking about 2 players stunning you at once. Guess what? If I'm fighting two players who are equally geared with me, I'm probably going to die regardless.

What I do hate with this new system is that I can get stunlocked even more. You talk about increasing fun and the original post mentions that being crowd-controlled to death isn't fun... well, that is exactly what's happening to Marauders who don't have a true stun. I find it frustrating when I go from near full to dead because I can't break the gang-bang of stuns on and watch as my life whittles down.

In fact, I don't think anyone has fun with that so how are you guys fixing this? This is only making it worse.

In the live game, being affected by two stuns simultaneously only controls you for 4 seconds, but it gives you full Resolve. To be plain, this makes escaping a rampaging melee player very, very difficult. It's directly related to concerns we see regarding overpowered melee and them being inescapable. Going immune after only 4 seconds of control strongly favors the one being controlled.

Wait, are you serious? Because you do realize that this also makes that VERY SAME melee player able to hold you in place longer.

My proposed solution:

Until they factor in % damage taken during a stun into the resolve system, it will ALWAYS be worthless and not work as intended.

They should also factor in stuns that are broken earlier than their full duration should NOT allow for their full resolve contribution.

Just make resolve gain by 200/sec while stunned, and add a modifier for % damage taken, like 100 resolve per 10% health lost during the duration of the stun.

Yes, we know......you act like we didn't read what you posted.

 

The problem isn't that someone got lots of resolve fast and thus unstoppable, the problem is that we are getting stunned left and right and can't move. All you've done is insure that we will continue to be stunned as long as possible under a coordinated attack, even if the attack isn't coordinated.

 

So let me make it a bit clearer.

 

Pre 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.

Pre 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can only stun lock you for 4 seconds because they stacked your resolve and gives you a slim chance to do something to survive.

Pre 1.4 Average stun-lock = 6 seconds (assuming 50% likelihood of each scenario)

 

Post 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.

Post 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can now stun lock you for 8 seconds because your resolve isn't filling up as fast, and you die.

Post 1.4 Average stun-lock = 8 seconds

 

As you can see with this remarkably simple analysis/math, the players are going to be stunned MORE ON AVERAGE after the patch, although the MAXIMUM REMAINS UNCHANGED.

 

We can debate all day about the merits of it, but the math is the math is the math. The average stun lock increases Post 1.4. It isn't hard man.

What I think is being missed here, is that even though the resolve level will be lower in 1.4, the two players stunning you will have both used a stun already. These have cool downs, they are not infinite.

Also, under 1.3 the two simultaneous stuns would generate full resolve, you could immediately blow your trinket and go at it (master strike, score huttball, etc.), with 1.4 you'll have to wait for the next stun, after the first simultaneous ones, to use the trinket. Under neither scenario are you staying stunlocked for eight seconds.

And if you are stunned for the full eight, keep in mind this requires you to have wasted your breaker, and for more than one person to be hitting you, in which case you're supposed to die quickly.

PS.... but you're a healer and multiple people are always trying to kill u, and getting stunned lets them kill you faster. Ummm.... Where are your teammates and why aren't they stunning, taunting, peeling the dps away from you?

The only thing I stumbled over when reading this article:

"we don’t like it when"

Where is the buff for assassin/shadow tanks?? Is it Force Cloak down to 2 minutes??

Well...Shadow/Assassin Tanks are getting indirect buffs in the form of a reduced Force Cloak cooldown and a 10s Force Speed if they spec Elusiveness.

The main buffs went to the Deception/Infiltration ACs, which needed it.

Telling people to learn to play when they don't like the class changes and "balance" seems elitist to me, if I go on to list what all doesn't work and is broken you will just ignore it and say learn 2 play which would just be a waste of effort and time on my part. I am not walking into that little trap.

Brother man. I'm not a Troll and I have an open mind. Make your argument. If it is persuasive and factually solid, you will convince me that you are right. Honestly. I just play this game to have fun and I really just want everyone to have fun.

There is no change going through that is detrimental to PvE in any way whatsoever. These are slight modifications to gameplay that are easily adaptable, not apocalyptic, not gamebreaking.

Now in PvP, that may not be the case...hello 10s Force Speed and increased Stealth frequency.

So why is Shadow / Assassin getting a boost? They aren't powerful enough?

The Assassin/Shadow Deception/Infiltration ACs are getting a boost. And yes, they weren't powerful enough.

Stun Wars Continues!!!

Nah...1.4 will usher in the age of Stealth Wars. The proposed changes to Stealth are asinine except for the Deception/Infiltration/Scrapper/Concealment ACs. You thought the teams of stunlocking Operatives were bad before. Just wait till the Tankassins and Ops/Sawbones healers get a hold of this.

Meanwhile the QQers are complaining about Force Wave/Overload. lol

The only way i can make sense of this is that those enemy players have been complaining.

Or you could just consider that FW/O is spammy and haphazard in its current implementation. The Devs are making it an Instant skill now with more precision and control. What is so difficult to understand about that?

So much for your promise to not "adjust" classes based solely on PvP.

Please explain how any of the changes are gamebreaking for you in PvE land.

Well the small amount of Trooper Commandos left on our small thread of the class forums have reacted fantastically well to this latest news update.

I, for one, cannot wait to get molested by everything that moves come 1.4.

I just pray they lower our heal range to 10 meters ontop of this.

As a ranged squishy class you are already putting yourself at risk by running up to the group of enemy players in order to push them off. Those enemy players all have the chance to stun you or to push you off before you push them off.

 

Another thing about the 360 degree push off -> that only works on a walkway or bridge. Not on a cliff: as those behind you just get pushed further on land - not off of the cliff.

Yes and no. Sure you're squishy, but you have forcespeed, you miss and they don't fall off, just turn around and run away, you'll get some distance before they leap/shoot you, and if you get hook shot, well that's tough cookies. What i mean to say is that it's so easy to do it in a relatively safe manner with the 360 degree push than with the 120, shoot the cloaked variety can easily kill 2-4 people and book it in this manner, the 120 makes it so you need more precision to get this desired affect, you need to position yourself better. And there by make it a less viable tactic, since it's kinda cheesy.

Well the small amount of Trooper Commandos left on our small thread of the class forums have reacted fantastically well to this latest news update.

 

I, for one, cannot wait to get molested by everything that moves come 1.4.

 

I just pray they lower our heal range to 10 meters ontop of this.

I'm assuming this in response to the insta-CC range nerf as opposed to the uber heal buffs + disrupt?

Yes and no. Sure you're squishy, but you have forcespeed, you miss and they don't fall off, just turn around and run away, you'll get some distance before they leap/shoot you, and if you get hook shot, well that's tough cookies. What i mean to say is that it's so easy to do it in a relatively safe manner with the 360 degree push than with the 120, shoot the cloaked variety can easily kill 2-4 people and book it in this manner, the 120 makes it so you need more precision to get this desired affect, you need to position yourself better. And there by make it a less viable tactic, since it's kinda cheesy.

Yeah, I hear you. Another valid tactic would be...*gasp* actually use a bit of backpedaling (yeah, that thing that "experts" say to not use) to get the mobs that surrounds you get in front of you (or at least in the 120 cone) and use it. Of course, this change, along with the nerf range of electrocute, is an UNNECESSARY CHANGE THAT NOBODY ASKED TO (I haven't read about it even in the PvP forums I've never seen anyone complain about these two skills on sorcs...in fact, it seems that nobody wants sorcs unless they heal on PvP), so this is why I would got mad.

Seriously, I would trade that "moderate" free heal (wich no one of us knows how much it heals) and the force speed "buff" for my old overlap and electrocute any day of the week.

While most of the mercenary changes are welcomed, the last one in particular I can't see being very useful in a PvP or PvE setting

•New Bodyguard/Combat Medic skill, Peacekeeper/Frontline Medic: While protected by your own Kolto Shell/Trauma Probe, firing Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot at an enemy triggers your Kolto Shell/Trauma Probe to heal you on a separate 3-second rate limit

It's true that most players will immediately focus a healer if they see one and since thats the case (and we do have kolto shell/trauma prove on ourselves), don't you think we'd be better off casting a heal on ourselves?

Assuming we're geared properly;

Any heal + koltoshell/trauma probe charge > 2 Kolto shell/trauma probe heals

Not to mention Rapid shot/hammer shot won't even make a dent in a player with a decent amount of expertise. This also brings up the fact that if it is a skill, we'd have to give up something good/required by our advanced class for something that sounds good on paper, but just isn't as good or required (kind of like powered insulators)

Now with that being said, I would suggest going back to the drawing board on that one, and perhaps consider something that mercenary community has been begging for.

Ideas include

• Bodyguard- Jumps to the target and redirects incoming damage onto yourself by a %. This ability is highly situational (would be good in both PvE and PvP), would make an excellent cooldown and fits well within the bodyguard archetype
  
• Rapid shots- Can be used on yourself. This should be self explanatory but we should be able to cast this on ourselves. If we're getting focused down and are receiving no guard, extra heals, it's just a matter of time before we either overheat or are defeated. We should have something to fall back on when heat just won't let us cast anything else
  
• Armoured Heat Suit- Increases maximum heat by 5/10.
   
  Just a few ideas that I think warrants a look at it.
   
  Otherwise, great changes as far as mercenaries go
   
  

In my experience, Force Speed without a root or stun is not enough to escape with gap closers being as they are. You don't run far enough to avoid the leap.

Yea the problem is you do not get out of range of GOD MODE Sentinel/Marauder so once again they will be unstoppable in PVP. I have no problem with the damage it is the insane number of God Mode moves they have.

Hello bio so far I have read the 1.4 dev update and I seen some good changes but the resolve part I don't get it well to stop having a person to be immune to stuns and then score a point in hutt ball ok. But will be a problem on the game overall pvp.

For example on our server theirs some people who don't care about doing the Warzone to win they just go and kill other players to get commendations for damage so by reducing the resolve will promote more people to stun lock a player till that player is died. In other words some people will use a warzone as a deathmatch than doing the objectives to win the warzone. This will also be a nightmare for healers once a healer is marked they become the highest target with this new resolve change well that will get each player stun locking a healer till dead meaning no way for a healer to get out of stun after the healer uses for a sorcerer uses Unbreakable Will to break a stun then they can't break that anymore for 2m. Already healers are getting stun locked by other players anyways once the healer gets marked in other words the resolve is not making a healer immune to the stuns till the healer is died. With this change will promote more deathmatchs on every Warzone making the victim more angry and stop playing the game altogether because he or she can't get out of the stun lock and dies.

So far ya guys to a good job to the game just some changes can be questionable and some player will get angry by the change and stop playing the game resulting on losing players.

Edit

Wanted to add after thinking a bit.

Now redoing the resolve because of most scores on Hutt ball ok then it should be this way when a player has the ball will have a resolve reduced debuff making that player acceptable to more stuns rather than redoing Resolve on everybody in a warzone.