Is it just me, or has the movement towards having SGRAs in SWTOR lost steam?

 

Flirts in Makeb were a nice start, to be sure, but they ARE only a small beginning. I’d like the developers to tell us their plans… for example, when are they targeting to have fully-fledged SGRAs for both males and females?

 

Time to let them know that just because we’ve been quiet doesn’t mean that we’re not still expecting them to come through!

It's lost steam because many of us are burnt out. Personally I don't think we're ever going to see more than herosexual female flirts and some male only flirts. It appears to be the nature of the Austin beast. I find that hugely disappointing, and I think the consequence is that I'm only here because there's nothing better at the moment. But DA3 is on its way, can't wait to play that.

I think they only added these flirts so they can say they're not homophobic and have something to point to. If they had any real interest in doing this then it would have been in at launch, we've been at this discussion since the beginning of the SWTOR forums, it's not like they had no clue. We had to be really loud to get the Makeb flirts, and I think that's the best that this Austin will ever do. They're just not capable. It's such a stark contrast to hear these game developpers talk about story and then hear the DA team or David Gaider talk about story and inclusion.

What I'd really like to see is essentially a real BioWare game. Howcome my femAgent can't flirt with Watcher, even though it clearly looks like they got something going on. Of course this would require a rewrite of the class story, and that's not likely to happen. I don't know how much the current companions are in the class content, they certainly are class bound. I don't see them changing it. They just don't care. If you care, you make it happen, then there's no excuses.

As for new companions. I'd like to see them, but I'm also not sure if they're willing to do that. I wonder also how many companions this engine can handle. I notice that when I load HK, it takes much longer than any other companion. I wonder if this has something to do with coding and loading this content.

They're also not likely to put a companion in the legacy just on its own. It'd come with story content, like Treek with Czerka and HK with Section X. If they do go for an SGRA human or near-human species it'll likely be a herosexual female, who looks like she just had a baby, like most other female characters, judging by the size of her breasts (I can't stand to have Ensign Temple with me, that girl must be in pain the entire day, you can't have breasts that large and not have a constant backache). (And on another note, why do all female character walk like they need surgery on their hips, knees and joints, I've never in my life seen women move this awkward in RL, outside of sexist comedy shows).

As for the devs not talking. I think it's two-fold. Everything they talk about gets burned down on the forums. I do hope they also get in-game sometimes, general is mostly positive about new things coming. And also, I think they don't really know where they're going. I think SGR flirts are an after-thought at this point, that gets put in at the last moment. I think they have no road map as to improve the situation or balance romance out for genders and sexual diverse people.

Treek is just ridiculous, ridiculous enough that I'm not taking it as an insult that they're putting her in first before any full fledged SGRAs. I am certainly not going to be unlocking her - there's really no point. She doesn't do anything that other companions don't do, and despite the fact that there are several non-near human companions, when was the last time you saw Bowdaar, Broonmark, Yuun, or Skadge running around regularly? Or heck, Blizz! When was the last time you saw someone seriously using Blizz as a companion?

 

She might be popular the week of her release, but I am not sure she'll last. HK-51 didn't. I hardly ever see him, even when I'm on Harbinger.

 

ObOT: SGRAs need to be implemented, even handedly across both factions and genders, and sooner rather than later.

Depends on the class. Khem and Fess aren't human or romancable, and they're popular picks for Consulars and Inquisitors.

Starting companions seem to be popular to use, possibly because they're the starting companion (with the exception seeming to be T7), then it tends to look like Damage or Healing Companions. In game, I think people tend to use the companion that helps their gameplay more than who they're romancing.

Unless there's a lot of interest in m/m with Doc for instance, which is doubtful that it's a lot, and goes back to "Damage dealer with Healing Companion equals less downtime."

It's lost steam because many of us are burnt out. Personally I don't think we're ever going to see more than herosexual female flirts and some male only flirts. It appears to be the nature of the Austin beast. I find that hugely disappointing, and I think the consequence is that I'm only here because there's nothing better at the moment. But DA3 is on its way, can't wait to play that.

I think they only added these flirts so they can say they're not homophobic and have something to point to. If they had any real interest in doing this then it would have been in at launch, we've been at this discussion since the beginning of the SWTOR forums, it's not like they had no clue. We had to be really loud to get the Makeb flirts, and I think that's the best that this Austin will ever do. They're just not capable. It's such a stark contrast to hear these game developpers talk about story and then hear the DA team or David Gaider talk about story and inclusion.

 

What I'd really like to see is essentially a real BioWare game. Howcome my femAgent can't flirt with Watcher, even though it clearly looks like they got something going on. Of course this would require a rewrite of the class story, and that's not likely to happen. I don't know how much the current companions are in the class content, they certainly are class bound. I don't see them changing it. They just don't care. If you care, you make it happen, then there's no excuses.

 

As for new companions. I'd like to see them, but I'm also not sure if they're willing to do that. I wonder also how many companions this engine can handle. I notice that when I load HK, it takes much longer than any other companion. I wonder if this has something to do with coding and loading this content.

They're also not likely to put a companion in the legacy just on its own. It'd come with story content, like Treek with Czerka and HK with Section X. If they do go for an SGRA human or near-human species it'll likely be a herosexual female, who looks like she just had a baby, like most other female characters, judging by the size of her breasts (I can't stand to have Ensign Temple with me, that girl must be in pain the entire day, you can't have breasts that large and not have a constant backache). (And on another note, why do all female character walk like they need surgery on their hips, knees and joints, I've never in my life seen women move this awkward in RL, outside of sexist comedy shows).

 

As for the devs not talking. I think it's two-fold. Everything they talk about gets burned down on the forums. I do hope they also get in-game sometimes, general is mostly positive about new things coming. And also, I think they don't really know where they're going. I think SGR flirts are an after-thought at this point, that gets put in at the last moment. I think they have no road map as to improve the situation or balance romance out for genders and sexual diverse people.

I kept wondering why my Agent couldn't flirt with Hunter. I'm running through the story, it's bad enough I don't get a lot of flirt options to begin with (because I hear MaleAgents get plenty), but Hunter is right there this whole time, and I never get an option.

I kept wondering why my Agent couldn't flirt with Hunter. I'm running through the story, it's bad enough I don't get a lot of flirt options to begin with (because I hear MaleAgents get plenty), but Hunter is right there this whole time, and I never get an option.

Hunter is the closest thing we get to a transgender character in the game. I'm pretty sure she's supposed to be straight, and any flirt-vibes you get out of her with a female agent, whether she's in her male disguise or as her female self, is probably unintentional/a problem with editing dialogue. Been a long time since I've played through that part though.

Yes. I thought Hunter is cool. And I would love for Hunter to be a companion.

Yes. I thought Hunter is cool. And I would love for Hunter to be a companion.

 

with a Male and Female stance

Hunter as a companion?

That's... that's madness.

Do you have any idea what that would do to the Agent?

I can't even imagine the mind****ery involved. And the other things I can't mention here.

Edit: @Piestrator -

Hunter is the closest thing we get to a transgender character in the game. I'm pretty sure she's supposed to be straight, and any flirt-vibes you get out of her with a female agent, whether she's in her male disguise or as her female self, is probably unintentional/a problem with editing dialogue. Been a long time since I've played through that part though.

TBH, the entire thing was ruined at the and with the

option at the end.

TBH, the entire thing was ruined at the and with the

"It's a girl! Now [Kiss Her]!"

option at the end.

Now that the news is out about Treek, I can honestly say I don't want them to ever try and bring SGRA companions in through the CM or Collections, EVER!

Bioware shouldn't even consider adding SGRA's for companions - current or new - to the Cartel Market until such point as an equal amount of options to the existing romances are made and brought to live.

And considering they will never have a ratio where non-straight-male based romances are equal to straight male romances, we can expect to never see SGRA companions on the Cartel Market. Hopefully.

Bioware shouldn't even consider adding SGRA's for companions - current or new - to the Cartel Market until such point as an equal amount of options to the existing romances are made and brought to live.

 

And considering they will never have a ratio where non-straight-male based romances are equal to straight male romances, we can expect to never see SGRA companions on the Cartel Market. Hopefully.

Anything that could possibly be considered as vanity content will go up for a steep price. Though really, one could compliment the developers for their balls, charging 21 dollars for a companion is something special. And I think it rules out any companions coming to the game for free for the rest of this game's life cycle.

Now I hear the voices of people saying that "they worked for this", it seems rather curious to me that you work for your entertainment. Perhaps though the media can learn from this, make people work before they can watch part of a television episode or movie.

The fact of the matter remains though, you don't just not need to work to be heterosexual in this game, we all get it shoved down our throats, and the rest of the humans in our galaxy need to "work for it" or pay up.

I don't see how they can release new companions or SGRA companions without charging for it, with the precendent they created now. And tbh, I think this is marking the end of the line for me. Though you never know, perhaps now that EA has said they embrace microtransactions they'll also make us pay in DA3.

Oh goodie, Bioware: Austin masking inherent homophobia behind a paywall by making it so that all new companions are on the Cartel Market. What an innovation.

Little wonder they haven't given us any new information on SGRA's, if this is the path they're taking.

Oh goodie, Bioware: Austin masking inherent homophobia behind a paywall by making it so that all new companions are on the Cartel Market. What an innovation.

 

Little wonder they haven't given us any new information on SGRA's, if this is the path they're taking.

That is if SGRA companions are on the wall of crazy. In which case I guess we should consider ourselves lucky.

I don't buy the 'homophobia' accusation. Paywalled or otherwise.

I will be Devil's Advocate here (never mind that it's my actual opinion): I think the Cartel Market is the way to go for SGRA companions.

Why? Simple - it neatly avoids the issue of tender eyeballs. "ZOMG I don't even want to have to avoid a [Flirt] option!" This way, they never have to deal with a same-gender romance companion.

I'm not interested in why they simply can't avoid a [Flirt] option, but I'm tired of their bellyaching about it. If the SGRA companions are in the Cartel Market, they have to make a conscious choice to get it - and at that point, they lose all rights to complain, and the rest of us are justified in telling them to shut up. Because at that stage, it isn't game content you can't avoid - it's all buried behind a nice Cartel Market wall.

I don't buy the 'homophobia' accusation. Paywalled or otherwise.

 

I will be Devil's Advocate here (never mind that it's my actual opinion): I think the Cartel Market is the way to go for SGRA companions.

 

Why? Simple - it neatly avoids the issue of tender eyeballs. "ZOMG I don't even want to have to avoid a [Flirt] option!" This way, they never have to deal with a same-gender romance companion.

 

I'm not interested in why they simply can't avoid a [Flirt] option, but I'm tired of their bellyaching about it. If the SGRA companions are in the Cartel Market, they have to make a conscious choice to get it - and at that point, they lose all rights to complain, and the rest of us are justified in telling them to shut up. Because at that stage, it isn't game content you can't avoid - it's all buried behind a nice Cartel Market wall.

Interesting.

Put in that light it's kind of like a complicated SGR toggle.

Wow, you guys are talking like it's a done deal.

I honestly think they won't do it.

Interesting.

 

Put in that light it's kind of like a complicated SGR toggle.

 

Yeah. If any gay or lesbian player complained about having to be forced to look at/take straight [Flirt]s because they exist, the amount of backlash from the "oh em gee, gays" crowd would be greater than our so-called 'intolerant' community. (Oh em gee! You can't be intolerant of my intolerance! That makes you just as bad as the racists/homophobes/misogynists you hate! Don't tell me to accept people's differences! You're being intolerant of my beliefs!)

And yeah, Bioware: Austin might not be explicitly calling the LGBT community and players bad names or saying they shouldn't be playing SWTOR, but by not giving them equal content on the grounds of... actually literally nothing (because costs did not hinder them from making all the [Flirt]able women in Makeb bisexual or hinder the amount of women straight male characters get to [Flirt] with and romance), it's a form of passive discrimination, which is in a way far more insidious and damaging, as it's not something you can really point out to a lot of people, because Bioware: Austin can just dress it up in the clothes of "reasonable action", by saying that 99.99% of their player base is Straight White Cis Men and they're just looking out for the majority.

Because we all know that Straight White Cis Men are greatly under-represented in games, films, advertising, television, books, newspapers....

Wow, you guys are talking like it's a done deal.

 

I honestly think they won't do it.

yep, i'm pretty confident they won't. which is really shameful for the company -- especially after taking all that credit in the media for embracing openly gay characters in-game, then turning around and doing nothing.... just a really ugly, shameful, and underhanded move on their part.

The problem is that they've created a situation now that they cannot really come back from. So what if they create a new SGRA companion. If they don't put it in the CM then they make it something for high level characters only, which I think would be a shame, I didn't even do Makeb on any character but my main, and I'm not alone in this. Apart from that, if they don't add high requirements people are going to complain that "they put in the work" and the rest did not. People are going to say that it is inequal to give SGRA companions away while Treek and HK are not given away with spending CC or spending lots of in-game time and credits. And you cannot blame them for reasoning this, because BW has been rewarding that sentiment. (Doesn't take away the fact that these groups would be wrong, because heterosexual companions are given away, they require no work whatsoever).

But what this also does, is that it reinforces my sentiments expressed a few posts back, that I don't think they have a roadmap for SGRA. This is yet another thing that hasn't been thought through. If they had a roadmap for bringing SGRA companions into the game, then Treek would have been part of a companion roadmap. And it looks more like the way Treek is released, and the pricing attached to the character, that there is no larger strategy, but the focus is on making more money more quickly, while not upsetting a group of hardcore anti-CM players too much.

Of course I could be wrong. Perhaps there's different teams in Austin that don't communicate, and randomly push things out, without any kind of management or strategy team whatsoever, and one team most certainly is very silently working very hard to bring SGR(A) content into the game, but they work in a cave somewhere, cut off from the rest of the world, until the moment they are done.

yep, i'm pretty confident they won't. which is really shameful for the company -- especially after taking all that credit in the media for embracing openly gay characters in-game, then turning around and doing nothing.... just a really ugly, shameful, and underhanded move on their part.

Sorry, should have quoted for context. I meant that I don't think they'll put SGR or SGRA companions and related mission chains in the Cartel Market. (Or if they do, there'll be some non-CM method of unlocking them, hopefully a bit easier than 40 legacy and 1 million credits.)

I think it's just a matter of time before they do add full SGRAs.

(I seem to be in an optimistic mood today, I'll come back and be pessimistic next week. )

(I seem to be in an optimistic mood today, I'll come back and be pessimistic next week. )

Someone has to *pats*

But unfortunately, Fabiyun's reasoning is pretty sound. Those who complain about "minority" representation always turn a blind eye to their own and if(and this is a big IF a the moment) Bioware do add SGRA's for current or new companions, not via the Cartel Market, everyone who would be decrying that move would also magically forget all the current romancable companions that you do no "work" for.

Because they don't see broad and appropriate representation as additions to what they have, but rather something that detracts from their toys. It's like the old cookie analogy.

Someone has to *pats*

 

But unfortunately, Fabiyun's reasoning is pretty sound. Those who complain about "minority" representation always turn a blind eye to their own and if(and this is a big IF a the moment) Bioware do add SGRA's for current or new companions, not via the Cartel Market, everyone who would be decrying that move would also magically forget all the current romancable companions that you do no "work" for.

 

Because they don't see broad and appropriate representation as additions to what they have, but rather something that detracts from their toys. It's like the old cookie analogy.

Yea that's pretty much why I'm concerned with this move. I was brave enough to post in General, and the first hater is already in. I'm going to grab some cookies, and bite back (because Feminism).

Hello Ms. Woods,

 

Considering that players are required to do extra work for Treek (whether it be paying real money or making 1 million credits in-game), will players then also be required to do extra work (paying real money or in excess of 1 million credits) to have access to same-gender romances with current or future companions?

 

Is this why HK and Treek are on the Cartel Market?

 

I know you won't answer this because it's about "The Gay" and you aren't allowed to talk about "The Gay", but yourself and your team should consider that this question needs to be answered soon, because frankly, it's really starting to look as if Bioware is planning to make pro-SGRA players pay extra for content that already exists for straight players/characters. And, I'll be honest, that's just not *********** fair.

 

Hey Tatile,

 

There is no set "template" for future companions. HK, Treek, and any future companions, SGRA or otherwise, are taken on a case by case basis.

Oh no I'm mean.

No you're not. But it's another non-answer. It doesn't tell us anything. She doesn't even confirm or deny if there will be SGRA companions. Let alone if they will have a price or not.

I said that I don't hold out much optimism given current trends for both new content and how SGRs were handled in Makeb.