There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

 

First of all, lets do a breakdown of the flashfire/sting and the other scout side by side.

 

Shield Regen Rate-

Sting/Flashfire: 74.8

Novadive/Blackbolt: 104.0

 

Max Shield Capacity-

1040 for each

 

Max Hull-

Sting/Flashfire: 1026

Novadive/Blackbolt: 950

 

Engine Power Capacity-

Sting/Flashfire: 100

Novadive/Blackbolt: 108

 

Engine Regen Rate-

Sting/Flashfire: 5.4/sec

Novadive/Blackbolt: 5.0/sec

 

Sensor detection is 2k higher in the Novadive/Blackbolt at 19.5k without buffs from abilities or companions. The Flashfire/Sting only can boost theirs through companions.

 

Evasion-

This is the tricky one. Stock with no abilities slotted all of them are 10%. With the abilities slotted they come with, the Flashfire/Sting has 25% without using cooldowns, and the Novadive/Blackbolt has 14%. Both however, have access to all the passive buffs, and can therefore be the same.

 

So in reality, if you think the 76 hull damage and the .4 engine regen rate make it meaner, tougher, etc...go ahead and keep thinking that. The things you EARNED by saving up the 5000 req for are the clusters and the quads. A fair trade off, considering you paid a premium out of the gate before you could even upgrade them.

 

Now, as for pilots of other ships that want Blaster Overcharge and Distortion Shield nerfed, and essentially nerfing all scout pilots who use those abilities, let me ask you this:

 

Do you have abilities that raise your accuracy?

Do you have abilities that grant damage reduction?

Can you plan a build that will help to negate the bonuses of scouts?

 

Answer to all three is most definitely yes. So if scouts are such a problem, why doesn't anyone want to plan a build for them? I'll tell you why. Because you found what you think is the optimal cookie cutter build for highest possible damage and you don't want to make the hard choice of utility vs maximum DPS.

 

Learn your class.

Play.

Take notes...and we'll revisit this in a few months time when there are more players AND ALL THE SHIPS ARE ACTUALLY IN THE GAME. Another thing most of you don't take into consideration is we aren't playing with a full deck here. There is at least one other ship that still isn't in game, maybe two, if the bomber isn't the cloaker.

 

HOW IN YOUR RIGHT DAMN MIND CAN YOU BALANCE A GAME WITHOUT ALL THE INFORMATION????

You can't. So stop trying.

Quoted for truth. This player knows what they is talking about. No ship is over powered. Notice how everyone complains about every ship being OP (Strikers less so, but still there are complaints)? Means its pretty balanced.

It all comes down to outfitting your ship to how you fly, and learning to play that style to the best of your ability. There will always be better pilots. There will always be lucky pilots. Situational awareness, team communication, and knowing your role are VITAL to being a good pilot. If you have at the very least those three things covered, you are already a decent pilot and have an advantage over the maxed upgraded of any ship.

Hey ill will totally agree with you that you should be able to equip any blaster or missile you want on any ship, I think that is a great idea. [/Quote] Why bother. Just eliminate all differences and have one generic fighter. May the best pilot win.

Yes thats sarcasm, just like the comment about the guns. The game needs different ship types with their own advantages and disadvantages.

 

However a scout ship is never a superiority fighter, its a scout. [/Quote] And you want a Strike Fighter to be a superority fighter. The Intentions behind the Scout design are clear. The ship is build for dogfights and is supposed to engage and defeat Strike Fighters in Close combat. There is nothing wrong with a Scout defeating a Strike Fighter in a dogfight or a Strike Fighter dieing on eating a pod rocket at 1000m. Its your mistake if you bring a gun to a knife fight. Scouts are close in Superority Fighters, Strike Fighters arent.

 

That means its weak and easily destroyed. If it wasn't there would never be a need for anything else. Their sole defense lies in there speed and maneuverability. Having your ship do all your dodging for you so that you can go head to head against a heavily armored and more heavily armed ship so you can win is dumb. [/Quote] There a weak and can easily be destroyed. Dont you get it? Their hull strenghth is far less and their shields are much weaker. Scouts can be oneshotted by Gunships!! The couple of percentage points on evasion (exactly 1% if we are talking about the Pike Strike Fighter) helps a bit but overall they are the easiest ship to kill in the entire game. Which they are supposed to be. What they are not supposed to be is not having no survivability at all.

Furthermore, i doubt you have tried the Scout at all. Its total BS to Claim that evasion 'does all your dodging for you'. It does. Some of time. Other times not. You never know what will happen, you cant rely on 30% rng and have to fly accordingly.

 

I guess the real issue is that they should have classified scouts as superiority fighters and not as a scout class. Please show me anywhere else where a scout anything is nothing but cannon fodder for more heavily armed and armored anything, in a head to head fight. I will happily agree with you then.

Come on, just watch Star Wars, Lighter vessels blow bigger stuff up all the time. Its the nature of the universe.

 

Where are these mythical strikers that can one-shot a scout?

Yeah i wanted to write gunship.

 

Strikers are also not tanks. [/Quote] Yes, i was using sarcasm. Its the same like ************ about Scouts being hard to hit.

Hey ill will totally agree with you that you should be able to equip any blaster or missile you want on any ship, I think that is a great idea. However a scout ship is never a superiority fighter, its a scout. That means its weak and easily destroyed. If it wasn't there would never be a need for anything else. Their sole defense lies in there speed and maneuverability. Having your ship do all your dodging for you so that you can go head to head against a heavily armored and more heavily armed ship so you can win is dumb.

 

I guess the real issue is that they should have classified scouts as superiority fighters and not as a scout class. Please show me anywhere else where a scout anything is nothing but cannon fodder for more heavily armed and armored anything, in a head to head fight. I will happily agree with you then.

The Jedi fighters are scout like ships....

I actually see your point. Funny thing is I don't even take the evasion when I fly the scout ships. But, this is a game and you have to realize that balancing issues and mechanics can't be based on the movies.

I mean, if you want to go with the examples from the movies for balancing, I'm assuming next all strike pilots will want to be able to down a Death Star by himself with his proton torpedoes, and gunships should be good for crashing on the surface of it right?

Seriously, the only thing I'm trying to avoid is something like what happened to Mercs and Operatives In 1.2. Bioware has a bad habit of listening to knee jerk reactions when it comes to balancing. The track record in the past was they always go overboard in both directions.

I enjoy this game. I have two years invested in it. I'd like it to last another couple at least. All I'm asking is play this current build for a few weeks before we start swinging the word nerf around like that angry little Japanese girl in Kill Bill was swinging those balls around.

Why bother. Just eliminate all differences and have one generic fighter. May the best pilot win.

Yes thats sarcasm, just like the comment about the guns. The game needs different ship types with their own advantages and disadvantages.

Hey man, wanna play some Combat on my Atari 2600?

LOL you really crack me up. You really just don't understand what scout means. Its all good though, the nerf stick will happen as it always does. When strikes are the FOM you will be complaining when people what them nerfed and so on with every other FOM that happens. Enjoy them while they last. There are plenty of real space fighter games that got it right and don't use dumb ground based mechanics, to eliminate player pilot skill.

LoL you don't understand that a true "scout" has zero place in a dominion map where all your objective can be found on your minimap. Under your design no one would ever play a scout because there would be zero purpose to bring one. You also have no frigging clue what a superiority fighter is either, and probably just heard that term somewhere and decided it applied.

Flashfires are niche ships they are designed for close in dogfighting and close in dogfighting only. Strikes do everything but don't excel in any one area, and at the same time don't have any major weaknesses.

You picked a strike so your going to have to live with the fact that niche ships are going to be better that their niche than you are.

Like really you might as well be arguing that vanguards are supposed to be as great a ranged dps as they are a melee dps. And be a better dps than everyone else on top of that.

The Jedi fighters are scout like ships....

 

I actually see your point. Funny thing is I don't even take the evasion when I fly the scout ships. But, this is a game and you have to realize that balancing issues and mechanics can't be based on the movies.

 

I mean, if you want to go with the examples from the movies for balancing, I'm assuming next all strike pilots will want to be able to down a Death Star by himself with his proton torpedoes, and gunships should be good for crashing on the surface of it right?

 

Seriously, the only thing I'm trying to avoid is something like what happened to Mercs and Operatives In 1.2. Bioware has a bad habit of listening to knee jerk reactions when it comes to balancing. The track record in the past was they always go overboard in both directions.

 

I enjoy this game. I have two years invested in it. I'd like it to last another couple at least. All I'm asking is play this current build for a few weeks before we start swinging the word nerf around like that angry little Japanese girl in Kill Bill was swinging those balls around.

Hmmm well I don't remember saying I wanted it to be like the movies. I just want scout ships to be scout ships, and this idea that they are some super fighter that can dodge blaster fire, when flying straight into that blaster fire, is just dumb. You fly straight into incoming fire in a paper ship your going to get destroyed, its just fact. However in this game scout ships win head to head fights against heavier armed, armored, and shielded ships. The only reason it happens is because of the game mechanics that are used. Scouts ships are recon/hit and run ships, fighters are head to head dogfighters, and this gunship sniper thing is just insane. Instead of developing a good space fighter mode into swtor, all that happened was they put a different skin on ground pvp mechanics. The nerfs will come, they always do and nothing will change that fact.

Uhm no, the striker is not supposed to be a superiority fighter, like the name says primarily a strike or multirole plattform.

If you compare its design philosophy to todays fighter aircraft its the classic multirole fighter, strike fighter, fighter bomber or whatever you want o call it, capable of performing pretty much every mission without specialising too much on anything.

A true Superority Fighter is a far more specalizied tool. While design analogies only go so far and lines are blurred in the real world, a superority fighter optimized for stealth, speed, maneuverability for a tradeoff in firepower and protection.

Thats the scout in swtor. Its supposed to be the dominant dogfighter. You can use it for other stuff but it will barely useable. Strike fighters on the other hand are supposed to suck at everything. Its the tradeoff for being able to do every mission with them. Maximize your strength to exploit your enemies weaknesses

Hum, assuming we accept that Strike Fighters are not meant to be Space Superiority, you are certainly wrong in saying that the Strike Fighters are suppossed to suck at everything. That's just a silly thing to say. If multi-role fighters sucked at everything, then they're not multi-role! The point of a multi-role fighter is to be GOOD at everything, just not as good as a fighter specialized for that role.

That said, I personally don't see how Strike fighters are somehow meant to be multirole in the current implementation. In fact that claim sounds more like a convenient way to excuse Strike Fighters being less effective than Scouts or Gunships.

What, precisely, are these "multiple roles" do Strike fighters accomplish right now?

Gunships are meant to be specialized sniping platforms that kill stuff from long range. Scouts are fast and maneuverable fighters with increased sensors, and pay for this with less survivability and ostensibly less inherent firepower and a focus on close range.

So what roles are these? If you boil it down, Gunships Kill Stuff from long range, while Scouts Kill Stuff from short range (and also fulfill the scout/recon role through their systems and sensors, and the interceptor role with their speed). So what do Strikes do?

The answer is this: the role of Strike Fighters is Kill Stuff too, the difference is they can be equipped to do so from a wider variety of ranges, from short to medium (and long range, with proton torpedos), They also have higher hull and shields, but pay for this with lower speed and maneuverability.

But the fact remains that regardless of their name, their ACTUAL purpose is STILL to kill other fighters. They are NOT "multi-role" fighters that combine the capabilities of bombers and interceptors and dogfighters, or anything of the sort. Their goal is still to kill the ships the other players fly.

And that makes them Space Superiority fighters too. They just have a different focus than the Scouts. They're equipped to handle a wider range of situations with more and generally longer-ranged weaponry, but that doesn't mean they should somehow be less able to Kill Stuff than scouts. They just do it differently.

So sure, in a close in dogfight, the Scout should generally have the upper hand (at least the Flashfire should, as the Novadive is more specialized for scouting), but outside of such a situation Strikes should in turn have the upper hand (such as engagements at a longer range). Just like Gunships should have the upper hand at long range.

My ultimate point is this: do not go around making blanket statements that Scouts should be able to kill stuff better that Strike Fighters because they're "space superiority", and that it's therefore OK for them to dominate in kills or the likes (especially since you can just as well classify the Strike Fighters as "space superiority" fighters... heck that's precisely what the X-wing is classified at, on which the Strikes are modeled). In the end ALL roles (to date, that is, bombers might have a support role instead) are meant to Kill Other Players, they just do it in different ways.

If a role somehow becomes dominant and more effective than others, that is NOT a normal situation, but rather a mark of imbalance and should be fixed. Strikes SHOULD be doing just as well as Scouts at killing other fighters, they just should be doing it differently.

Whether that is the case for Scouts, I don't really know. Personally I'm having tremendous success in my Pike and Star Guard, regularly topping my matches, so I'd say the jury is still out on that. But for the love of all that is holy, let's avoid any silly claims that Scouts should be better than Strikes because Strikes are fighter bombers or anything of the sort, as that has NO bearing on the current reality in the game. Both can lay claim to "space superiority", they just do it through different methods and in different "envelopes".

Thank you.

LoL you don't understand that a true "scout" has zero place in a dominion map where all your objective can be found on your minimap. Under your design no one would ever play a scout because there would be zero purpose to bring one. You also have no frigging clue what a superiority fighter is either, and probably just heard that term somewhere and decided it applied.

 

Flashfires are niche ships they are designed for close in dogfighting and close in dogfighting only. Strikes do everything but don't excel in any one area, and at the same time don't have any major weaknesses.

 

You picked a strike so your going to have to live with the fact that niche ships are going to be better that their niche than you are.

 

Like really you might as well be arguing that vanguards are supposed to be as great a ranged dps as they are a melee dps. And be a better dps than everyone else on top of that.

Well lets see. Since a scouts actual job is to relay information on enemy strength and position, and to provide hit and run attacks against weakened enemies and TO NOT fly straight into enemy fire since they have no armor or shield strength to do that. They do have a practical role in a domination map. Why you all want to use a scout ship as though its a fighter is beyond me. What I cannot wait to see is what your all going to do when the Nerf Hammer drops and you actually have to rely on skill to stay alive. I also like how you assume I use a strike fighter, simply because I agree with someone who admittedly does. However to set you straight I use scouts ships, I like speed and maneuverability. I just find GSF boring, there is no challenge. I prefer my opponents to have real skill.

Well lets see. Since a scouts actual job is to relay information on enemy strength and position, and to provide hit and run attacks against weakened enemies and TO NOT fly straight into enemy fire since they have no armor or shield strength to do that. They do have a practical role in a domination map. Why you all want to use a scout ship as though its a fighter is beyond me. What I cannot wait to see is what your all going to do when the Nerf Hammer drops and you actually have to rely on skill to stay alive. I also like how you assume I use a strike fighter, simply because I agree with someone who admittedly does. However to set you straight I use scouts ships, I like speed and maneuverability. I just find GSF boring, there is no challenge. I prefer my opponents to have real skill.

So your telling me flashfires are supposed to be weak wimpy things that only exist to sit back and watch strike fighters have the fun?

And no they don't have a practical role thanks to the grapevine known as communication range, a true "scout" serves no purpose beyond the first minute of a match.

However to set you straight I use scouts ships, I like speed and maneuverability. I just find GSF boring, there is no challenge. I prefer my opponents to have real skill.

Arguing about something you don't even play? Priceless.

So your telling me flashfires are supposed to be weak wimpy things that only exist to sit back and watch strike fighters have the fun?

 

And no they don't have a practical role thanks to the grapevide known as communication range, a true "scout" serves no purpose beyond the first minute of a match.

well if that is what your doing, then your using your ship wrong. A true scout ship has plenty of use through out and entire match. hit and run tactics are a scouts bread and butter. Using a scout to fly directly into enemy fire is not the correct use of a scout ship. However that is the most common use of them currently because of the evasion/accuracy mechanics currently in use for GSF. If your using your speed and maneuverability to stay out of your enemies cross-hairs and still harass them with your rocket and blaster fire, then you are using your scout correctly. Relying on the evasion/accuracy mechanics so you don't have to learn to stay out of your enemies cross-hairs, is using a scout incorrectly.

Relying on the evasion/accuracy mechanics so you don't have to learn to stay out of your enemies cross-hairs, is using a scout incorrectly.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I've focused my scout on damage, speed and pursuit...if someone has me targeted, I'm likely dead. Perhaps you're just missing your shots instead?

well if that is what your doing, then your using your ship wrong. A true scout ship has plenty of use through out and entire match. hit and run tactics are a scouts bread and butter. Using a scout to fly directly into enemy fire is not the correct use of a scout ship. However that is the most common use of them currently because of the evasion/accuracy mechanics currently in use for GSF. If your using your speed and maneuverability to stay out of your enemies cross-hairs and still harass them with your rocket and blaster fire, then you are using your scout correctly.

You making assumtions on how I play? LoL

No kidding I don't go head to head, a flashfire will get roasted head to head with a Strike. And a Novadrive gets roasted head-to-head with anything. You dogfight period. There is no such thing as harassing when every one has regenerating shields.

You strafed my strike that's nice but I just regenerate all my shields and am as good as new. What did your harassment accomplish? nothing

Relying on the evasion/accuracy mechanics so you don't have to learn to stay out of your enemies cross-hairs, is using a scout incorrectly.

You realize that without evades a Quad Cannon armed strike fighter would only have to keep a scout in their crosshairs for 2.5 seconds to take the Scout from 100% shields and hull to dead? And that's without popping any kind of companion ability or secondary weapon.

LoL you don't understand that a true "scout" has zero place in a dominion map where all your objective can be found on your minimap. Under your design no one would ever play a scout because there would be zero purpose to bring one. You also have no frigging clue what a superiority fighter is either, and probably just heard that term somewhere and decided it applied.

 

Flashfires are niche ships they are designed for close in dogfighting and close in dogfighting only. Strikes do everything but don't excel in any one area, and at the same time don't have any major weaknesses.

 

You picked a strike so your going to have to live with the fact that niche ships are going to be better that their niche than you are.

 

Like really you might as well be arguing that vanguards are supposed to be as great a ranged dps as they are a melee dps. And be a better dps than everyone else on top of that.

Yea, scouts in this game are more like 'light fighters' than true scouts...Zoom is right, the true definition of a scout would have no purpose in GSF

Ok lets light up some terminology here.

Fighter Bomber or Assault fighter:

Is a high speed small load out fighter designed to attack stationary targets. It also incorporates abilities that allow it to act offensively in fighter to fighter combat but is not optimized for this role. A fighter bomber uses speed, small profile, stealth or active defensive systems such as jammers for it's defense. A fighter bomber does not rely on armor(or shields) for survivability. Also they are runners and climbers, but not built for turning. examples include.

- F-16 Falcon

- F/A-18 Hornet

- A-Wing (This one is my opinion, A-wings have Jammers and suffer as a turning craft)

Air/Space Superiority Fighter:

A fighter that allows statistical control of an region, Air/Space Superiority means that enemy fighter activities are suppressed enough to perform other mission goals. An air/space superiority fighter has less thrust and climb, but incorporates higher turn rate. They also incorporate a heavy design allowing for more weaponry and armor(shields). examples include.

- F-15 Eagle

- F-14 tomcat

- F-22 Raptor

- X-Wing fighter

- Tie Defender

- Missile Boat*

Recon Craft:

Sensors, jammers, counter recon, flight endurance(range not armor)

Knife Fighter:

extreme close combat, ability to get in close.

Slashing attack:

Fighter performs high speed pass, dealing moderate damage while receiving little or no damage. Does not refer to head to head fights.

Head to head:

I'm thrusting your way your thrusting my way, I'm shooting at you and you're returning the favor. Described as the most effective and most dangerous form of combat. The key to winning one is accuracy, the key to surviving one is dodging(jinking and juking).

Snub fighter:

As far as I'm able to determine it describes any single pilot fighter that is mostly cockpit and engines and does not describe an actual role. Scouts and Strikers alike I believe are both Snub fighters.

You making assumtions on how I play? LoL

No kidding I don't go head to head, a flashfire will get roasted head to head with a Strike. And a Novadrive gets roasted head-to-head with anything. You dogfight period. There is no such thing as harassing when every one has regenerating shields.

You strafed my strike that's nice but I just regenerate all my shields and am as good as new. What did your harassment accomplish? nothing

 

 

You realize that without evades a Quad Cannon armed strike fighter would only have to keep a scout in their crosshairs for 2.5 seconds to take the Scout from 100% shields and hull to dead? And that's without popping any kind of companion ability or secondary weapon.

And if a pilot knows how to not fly in a straight line for more than 1 second this is less likely to happen and if it does then they screwed up and should get shot down. Just like occurs with strikers and gunships, you screw up flying and you die they don't get a "boost shield power to 50,000 points for 3 seconds" ability to make them literally unkillable (and that is at it's most basic what evasion stat + abilities does for scouts, it gives them invulnerability for a short time so they can't be killed even if they made a serious screw up). From what I've observed playing both strikers and scouts is that flying in a straight line scouts are far more difficult to get hits on than strikers because the evasion stat compensates them for sloppy flying. It has nothing to do with player skill and everything to do with evasion RNG dodges giving scout pilots the room to fly sloppy.

Seriously in EVERY Star Wars starfighter game I've played before this scout class ships relied on player skill to do the dodging (but, just like the scouts here, you had all the speed and maneuverability you could possibly require to do this) and if you learned how to fly your ship you could survive just fine. The evasion mechanic (which has no place in a twitch based game mode) rewards players for not flying scout ships properly by significantly lessening (or with the right combo of abilities, temporarily removing) any repercussions for being sloppy.

What you're arguing is that players shouldn't have to invest time learning how to fly their ship and should have RNG dodges do the work for them. Rather than give them RNG just buff their shields and armor a bit, same result of improving their survival rate but now makes scouts dependent on pilot ability, not RNG dodges, just like in strikers/gunships.

EDIT:

Ok lets light up some terminology here.

 

Fighter Bomber or Assault fighter:

Is a high speed small load out fighter designed to attack stationary targets. It also incorporates abilities that allow it to act offensively in fighter to fighter combat but is not optimized for this role. A fighter bomber uses speed, small profile, stealth or active defensive systems such as jammers for it's defense. A fighter bomber does not rely on armor(or shields) for survivability. Also they are runners and climbers, but not built for turning. examples include.

 

- F-16 Falcon

- F/A-18 Hornet

- A-Wing (This one is my opinion, A-wings have Jammers and suffer as a turning craft)

The A-Wing is classed as an interceptor. Namely designed to hunt down other starfighters, albeit not in the space superiority fighter role. Also useful for quick hit and run strikes. The scout's anti-gunship abilities in GSF pretty much define what interceptor is.

In Star Wars B-Wings and Y-Wings are the classic fighter-bombers.

Air/Space Superiority Fighter:

A fighter that allows statistical control of an region, Air/Space Superiority means that enemy fighter activities are suppressed enough to perform other mission goals. An air/space superiority fighter has less thrust and climb, but incorporates higher turn rate. They also incorporate a heavy design allowing for more weaponry and armor(shields). examples include.

- F-15 Eagle

- F-14 tomcat

- F-22 Raptor

- X-Wing fighter

- Tie Defender

- Missile Boat*

In this I agree, the X-Wing is the classic example of a space superiority fighter. The striker class is essentially modeled on this (and it's description indicates this intent for them to be space superiority since the description says there is no finer dogfighter in the galaxy).

To my understanding Star Wars breaks it down into three types: fighter-bombers, interceptors, and space superiority fighters.

Currently we don't really have fighter-bombers (the Pike, upgrade Striker) could be argued as a fighter-bomber but they're really more of a multi-role class and that's how their described. I expect the bombers (that have yet to be in game) will be the ones that fill this role.

Clearly from the similarity of scout stats to A-Wings, their ability to hunt gunships, and ability to perform hit and run they're meant to be interceptors.

I'm not trying to pick an argument with you and I appreciate that you took the time to break it down for us. I just wanted to give my two cents on A-Wings. Hopefully no hard feelings that we disagree on their classification.

Gavin, you make some really good points about evasion/accuracy in all these threads.

I think the one thing that's probably OP (and I'm guessing will get eventually nerfed in some way) is the distortion field. My guess is they'll probably nerf the amount of evasion or increase the CD to 1:00 or :45 seconds. I think 30 seconds may be a bit too short.

However, on the other hand, without evasion they would need to adjust the hit boxes. My blackbolt shouldn't have the same hitbox as a GS, but I don't notice any difference as it is now. So without evasion to make up for the lack of hitbox differences, I don't know if removing it all together is the right answer either. To make up for this, I'd be okay with scouts having *a little more* evasion than is available to the other ship types because of their smaller frames.

Gavin I expected people to feel different about the A-Wing. My definitions are not SW specific but more universal. hence A-Wing actually fits my Fighter Bomber description.

However A-Wing does not equal Tie Interceptor. Which is the classic Example of an Interceptor in SW, though because of it's lack of shields, The Tie Advanced is probably a better example.

In fact the A-Wing has been defined as "the A-Wing Assault craft" and is known to have inferior turning to the X-Wing.

Notice that I did not attach GSF roles to any definition(except Snub Fighter).

Gavin, you make some really good points about evasion/accuracy in all these threads.

Thanks!

I think the one thing that's probably OP (and I'm guessing will get eventually nerfed in some way) is the distortion field. My guess is they'll probably nerf the amount of evasion or increase the CD to 1:00 or :45 seconds. I think 30 seconds may be a bit too short.

Personally I think it should be something that causes you to drop from targeting computer read outs regardless of whether you have them on your targeting computer (so when multiple fighters are on you the abity drops you from all their computers), no longer have the red box around you (that show where enemies are in the area, making it harder to visually track you), and keep the missile lock breaking ability. Basically make it a sensor/radar jammer rather than flat out evasion stat booster. IMO that would be balanced as it would give pilots better chances of survival by making it more difficult for enemies to keep them in their sights while still requiring player skill to succeed in dodging enemy fire/escaping.

However, on the other hand, without evasion they would need to adjust the hit boxes. My blackbolt shouldn't have the same hitbox as a GS, but I don't notice any difference as it is now. So without evasion to make up for the lack of hitbox differences, I don't know if removing it all together is the right answer either. To make up for this, I'd be okay with scouts having *a little more* evasion than is available to the other ship types because of their smaller frames.

That's an interesting observation and I wasn't aware of that. Assuming that the game engine doesn't allow them to adjust hit boxes to be proper I could understand using evasion to compensate.

I have mixed feelings of having components/abilities that boost it further though if it's there to compensate for hitbox design and think it would be better for them to boost stats that require player skill to utilize. For example give light armor a reduction in engine power cost, further increase in speed and/or boost to turning (balanced to not be OP when combined with the turning thruster component). Such adjustments would give players even greater ability to dodge enemy fire but would require pilots learning how to maximize this potential.

However, on the other hand, without evasion they would need to adjust the hit boxes. My blackbolt shouldn't have the same hitbox as a GS, but I don't notice any difference as it is now. So without evasion to make up for the lack of hitbox differences, I don't know if removing it all together is the right answer either. To make up for this, I'd be okay with scouts having *a little more* evasion than is available to the other ship types because of their smaller frames.

This is the primary reason the evasion mechanic exists, and one most people miss in the general debates about evasion. It's illustrated in the fact that as each ship gets bigger, it's base evasion decreases. (Scouts = 10%, Strikes = 5%, Gunships = 0%)

There's nothing wrong with base evasion as a stat on a ship, the only real question comes in how much additional evasion stacking should be allowed through gearing and crew. It may be that distortion field eventually needs a nerf, although I think how much of a nerf is exaggerated a bit. It does grant scouts a brief period of protection, but it is pretty brief. It's useless, for example, when attacked without warning, and only provides marginal protection in dogfighting since it does nothing against missiles, and can only cover 3 seconds of blaster fire.

The A-Wing is classed as an interceptor. Namely designed to hunt down other starfighters, albeit not in the space superiority fighter role. Also useful for quick hit and run strikes. The scout's anti-gunship abilities in GSF pretty much define what interceptor is.

 

In Star Wars B-Wings and Y-Wings are the classic fighter-bombers.

 

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In this I agree, the X-Wing is the classic example of a space superiority fighter. The striker class is essentially modeled on this (and it's description indicates this intent for them to be space superiority since the description says there is no finer dogfighter in the galaxy).

 

To my understanding Star Wars breaks it down into three types: fighter-bombers, interceptors, and space superiority fighters.

 

Currently we don't really have fighter-bombers (the Pike, upgrade Striker) could be argued as a fighter-bomber but they're really more of a multi-role class and that's how their described. I expect the bombers (that have yet to be in game) will be the ones that fill this role.

 

Clearly from the similarity of scout stats to A-Wings, their ability to hunt gunships, and ability to perform hit and run they're meant to be interceptors.

Well said, and fits my perception perfectly.

And really, the one thing that makes Strike Fighters potentially "multi-role" is their ability to mount Proton Torpedoes, which may eventually be truly useful for objectives (for example, if we need to blow up hardened objectives in a future game mode... turrets really don't count, they go down easily to anything). And even then, Protorps are still very useful in the space superiority role, as long range missiles.

In any case, I think it's wrong to state that scouts should be better at killing fighters than Strike Fighters, because Strikes are "multi-role". Right now everyone's role is to kill enemy fighters, and all should be able to do so equally in their own way.

Scouts should be deadly in close up dogfights, Gunships in long-range slugging matches, and Strikes be kings of the medium range. Though, granted, that's simplifying things greatly. But either way, no one role should be the best role for shooting down enemy fighters (at least as the game stands now. Once l we get more roles involved ,with even more specialized and game-altering purposes, things might be different).

I'll agree it does seem kind of devalued.

 

Question, do you take it? Do you take either the static DR bonus or the ability that grants it?

I haven't yet touched armour on my Striker yet. It's not my main ship, and I'm sticking to shield and weapon upgrades at the moment.

on the "strikes have more firepower then Scouts when the CD is not up." statement.

THis is wrong with a capital W. the only weapons a Strike can get a scout cant is Heavy lasers and Ion Lasers.

Heavy lasers do the least dps of any of the weapon but have the longest range sacrifices a lot by having poor tracking accuracy and firing arc.

Ion cannons only work on the portion of your ship that can easily be replenished and require knife fighting closeness that the Scout prefers with the worse maneuverability in the strike, getting into this range for a Strike against a good scout Pilot would be suicide.

But for 12 out of 40 seconds (about 1/3 the time) the Scout (who's damage potential is= normally) now has 50%(more then 30% increase rate of fire 10% increase crit and 10% increase damage) more damage so on average a scout can dish out around 16% more damage per second then a Strike class can.

All-in-all a scout class has more speed, Maneuverability, and overall firepower/dps then a Strike equal survivability (sacrificing armor and shields for Evasion ends up equaling them out) and Less range.

Balanced or no, you decide but this is where it is. Sacrifice Range for Speed, Maneuverability, and Firepower.

Superiority fighter

An air superiority fighter is a type of fighter aircraft designed for entering and seizing control of enemy airspace as a means of establishing complete dominance of one side's air forces over the other side's (air supremacy). Air superiority fighters are designed to effectively engage enemy fighters, more than other types of aircraft. They are usually more expensive and procured in smaller numbers than multirole fighters.

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That sounds nothing at all like a strike fighter but sounds a awful lot like a flashfire.

However after poking around a bit I found that what is termed as a "heavy fighter" seems to fit the strikes perfectly

A heavy fighter is a fighter aircraft designed to carry heavier weapons or operate at longer ranges. To achieve acceptable performance, most heavy fighters were twin-engined, and many had multi-place crews.

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