What I got from this dev update:

Implementing 4v4s. Check.

Removing 8v8 team ranked. Check.

The read between the lines: warzones (8 man v 8 man) are now the sideshow, all focus is on arenas.

Did we not learn our lesson from WoW? The 4v4 format of arenas inherently will favor a select few classes over all others, and we'll have the same 3 or 4 team compositions (if that) in all high level matches with no variation. Been maining X class? Good luck finding a team, your class brings nothing to the table!

In other words, the towel's been thrown in. Who cares about balance? GG, ranged DPS (especially on that Tatooine map), it's all about the mobile melee classes now. Team Deathmatch is fun and all, but to focus only on TDM's cheap thrill for competitive play is just... bleh.

Ordinarily, I'd adopt a wait-and-see approach. But BioWare, you've already told us the intent. 4v4 ranked solo and team. I thought you guys would've taken notes from WoW's failure. I guess not. :<

ALEX! I have a couple more PvP suggestions!

- If you guys ever make Kashyyyk playable, please add a PvP arena down in the Shadowlands! That would be epic!

- Also, Malastare has great potential for a new open world PvP planet! With Swoop Racing events and Pazaak!

All I can say is this.

Do not balance the game based on Arena performance. Even one balance pass that effects PVE that has to do with Arenas will probably not be received very well.

Remember, WoW made this mistake and paid the consequences. DO NOT make the same mistakes if you want to avoid the negative chorus that is likely to follow any such changes.

Arena imbalance should remain untouched.

I thought of another good question:

If I read it correctly, Arenas are being included in the "Regular" queue, and not an option. Lets say people end up disliking Arenas, but still love objective based warzones.

What happens when someone quits an Arena, given the population of the team itself is now of total importance instead of objectives? Does the match stall, or are we going to be seeing 4v3 and 4v2 matches?

If there is backfill - if someone backfills into a round, do they count as a "man standing"?

(Background: People quit huttball as they queue in like crazy on BC. I can see the same happening for arenas, even if by a different crowd.)

Hi Alex,

Some interesting and positive changes here, but like others two things concern me:

1) No separation in queues between 4v4 and 8v8. It's bad enough that we can't currently choose which WZ we want to do, forcing people into a completely different style of play would be a bit of a deterrent to queue for some.

2) Completely removing 8v8 ranked. Even if it's not really popular, why not just leave it for the people who do like it? What is the negative impact of leaving them in? I don't think the pvp population will increase by removing content.

I do hope that cross server queuing for warzones is still being considered. These changes may be a band-aid for increasing participation and queue pops, but ultimately I think cross-server is going to help a lot more.

Not the way I read this. Solo Que arena's will (supposedly) be balanced by the matchmaking system by role. The role is determined magically by your spec. There is no hard information here about how this works. Time to hit the PTS on Friday

 

If your grouped 4 man gets a ranked pop, they could face solo qued groups, but the roles will be balanced by the matchmaking system.

For ranked correct, re-read what I said. If I q up with 4 people for regs....

In other words, the towel's been thrown in.

The towel was thrown in a long time ago, when Gabe jacked up PvP to no end.

Arena imbalance should remain untouched.

It will be touched on. Because it's the new Ranked system with rating and everything, after eliminating the ranked 8v8. They have to cater to the arena balance concerns because they've dug themselves the hole already. If they don't the competitive players will complain legitimately about lack of attention to balance because it's rated.

I am pretty excited about the new stuff. I can also understand why some people don't like losing a part of the game they really liked. I really hoped for a new wz map or 2 by now though. I think new maps would bring more excitement and players. The ranked queues would also benefit from the new crop of players that it would bring. New map ideas would be endless ... like a "search and rescue" type where 1 team guards an NPC and the 2nd team has to try to extract them to a safe zone. Just thinking out loud, but more maps would be HUGE for the pvp community.

peace!

Arena imbalance should remain untouched.

Nothing says solid development like implementing a new feature and not balancing it because it has nothing to do with PvE.

I'd like to think even this game won't do that, but I've been proven wrong before.

now that there will be a separate solo / group queue for arenas, will there be a separate solo / group queue for the others as well?

a concern i have: so objective-based warzones seem really ideal for ranked play, as it requires a lot of coordination and communication among teammates.

i can understand that 8v8s weren't popping that often and 4v4s will pop a lot more often, it's just a bit backwards in my mind. random deathmatch requires much less coordination and communication than objective-based warzones.

so with that in mind, will there be 4v4 objective-based warzones for ranked? could that even work?

YAY new huttball.... hopefully it's not a 4v4? i don't really see it working.

2.4 was suppose to improve PvP but at the cost of removing another PvP element.......

"...not enough people played them." invalid excuse for removing 8v8 ranked. Does it hurt to keep them both?

Nothing says solid development like implementing a new feature and not balancing it because it has nothing to do with PvE.

 

I'd like to think even this game won't do that, but I've been proven wrong before.

And balancing arena usually ruins the actual main feature of the game -- PvE. WoW has proven this to great extent. I just hope, somehow, BW can use that knowledge to not crash and burn.

2.4 was suppose to improve PvP but at the cost of removing another PvP element.......

"...not enough people played them." invalid excuse for removing 8v8 ranked. Does it hurt to keep them both?

It's really an logically bankrupt thought process.

Problem: people are upset that rated ques do not pop often enough.

Solution: cause rated ques to pop even less (ie., never)

Clearly the "solution" does nothing whatsoever to alleviate the problem. In fact it is backwards. Rather than ameliorating people's anger and disappointment, it makes them considerably greater.

More on this at a later time, we've got something special planned

You ignored the first part of my question asking about ladders. I hope what you have planned is slated for the PTS this weekend to encourage community involvement.

I'm probably unsubbing if rated 8v8 is taken out, that is the sole reason I play this game.

Yea, it seems their intention is to slowly remove the minority from the game. Bioware looks at PvP as a minor part of the game and they are slowly kicking out the PvPers out of the game it seems.

8v8 Warzones for non-ranked aren't going anywhere.

Alex, can we please get a separate queue for for Objective oriented WZs and Arenas? Not all of us want to be forced into deathmatches during our PVP time. There are also some of us who have a very sour taste in our mouth from our Arena experiences from The Big Blue.

I have 3 questions:

1. Since pvp is now being focused on 4v4 arenas, will class balance be based around 4v4s instead of 8v8s as it previously was?

2. Are there any plans to have arena tournaments?

3. Are there any plans to bring 8v8 ranked back for a Huttball tournament when the new Huttball map is released? (this would be awesome, huttball is hands-down the best ranked map)

Happy to have a PVP update and expansion, but a little on the fence. If listing whats been said over the last few months to be happening... it may be a little small.

3-4 new arena 4m maps solo/ranked

Arena content in general

new pvp gear

loss of rated 8m

pvp wise other then maybe some balancing to classes that really seems to be it. As a streamer it is exciting to be able to have smaller teams for ranked pvp. It will make it much easier to make a team and will make more teams since the current pvpers will not be on 1 team of 8 but split to 2 teams on 4. Loosing content or ability thought doesn't sound fair. its not the current pvp communities fault that more people are not flocking to the content. No offense but maybe a new look at the content and wider array to what can be done pvp wise is best (such as not taking out content 8m ranked) why not make a solo 8m ranked queue but only for players at certain level of gear. for example must be full partisan geared to queue or gear rating minimum.

A server wide stat tracker that all can see would be cool. go to a computer on the fleet and see the top ranked players in their particular roles. Healing, DPS, Prot, Objective, and top over all players. And also a restartable lvl system for the pvp season. Bronze, silver, and gold brackets where players need to play and win to get to the next bracket. This could be then used to make a push into the MLG and WCS world and start forming competitive teams. the teams can then stream and have their viewers track their personal/team pvp status for that server or game wide. People in the 40-50 thousands watch WCS and MLG tournaments. People also in the hundreds of thousands watch PVP content on things like twitch everyday. Can't think of a better commercial then having world wide viewed tournaments (PVE CONTENT WILL NEVER BRING THIS. You will never see a tournament on who's team can finish an S&V the fastest.) It is certainly an enjoyable experience to watch a competition of skill and start to have true gladiators who can be tracked. With PVP you never know who will win when it is a good competition. With a wider tournament/streaming community the server pops/monthly subscription totals and length of stay will surely raise.

When you look at console games often they are story mode with a year long PVP expansion then they come out with a new game updated story and year long PVP expansion. People often spend all day on those games just playing the multi-player PVP. SWToR has possibly one of the largest story mode content out of all MMO's... So since PVP is not happening to the point where 8m rated WZ is no longer needed is disconcerting.

These are just my humble opinions and in no way feel they may be the only views or even the correct views but it is what comes to mind when thinking of the new pvp patch. I appreciate though the pvp department at SWToR Bioware for creating what is coming up in the future patch and with my lack of knowledge assume that even what is made so far was a large undertaking. Just hope that pvp will continue to grow and expand in the ToRverse.

Thanks for reading

Yâñg Bagginz

:csw_r2d2:Twitch.tv/YangBagginzCast

"EA is the biggest gaming company for pvp since they PWN at making sports games. SWToR definitely has the ability to be the front leader in the MMO world for pvp. Blizzard SC2 just got kicked out of MLG and with a lull in the wow tourny pvp scene it could be the perfect time to strike and do what blizzard has failed on the majority of their games. Balanced PVP (SC2 & WoW to name a few)"

The towel was thrown in a long time ago, when Gabe jacked up PvP to no end.

Sadly I have to agree here. If there is one person I point to that helped make the PvP experience MUCH worse it's Gabe. Sorry buddy, you've failed the game and community and it's pretty clear you don't have a lot of PvP experience and should have never had the position you were assigned.

It will be touched on. Because it's the new Ranked system with rating and everything, after eliminating the ranked 8v8. They have to cater to the arena balance concerns because they've dug themselves the hole already. If they don't the competitive players will complain legitimately about lack of attention to balance because it's rated.

Well, I hope your wrong. Doing so would be a huge mistake IMO...we have already seen a very obvious example of three truths when it comes to Arena and balance.

1) It is almost impossible to balance for Arena play. Imbalance will ALWAYS exist no matter how many changes are made UNLESS it uses a separate set of stats that can be balanced on their own.

2) Any changes based on Arena imbalance are usually viewed and received as absolutely toxic by the gaming community.

3) A constant chain of Arena-induced balance changes will cause almost never-ending gameplay changes for classes that will cause players to lose any grasp on how to play their class.

Nothing says solid development like implementing a new feature and not balancing it because it has nothing to do with PvE.

 

I'd like to think even this game won't do that, but I've been proven wrong before.

Balancing Arena in other games in the past has proven disastrous for the game and it's population. The best example of this is WoW. It would be a huge mistake to even make one balance change based on Arena performance IMO.

Any imbalance discovered based on Arena performance MUST REMAIN UNTOUCHED IMO.