This argument however hinges on Traya being able to effectively counter everything in G0-T0s powerbase. But can she? Can she take whatever G0-T0 dishes out? I feel this is what needs to be discuss, how effective will G0-T0's myriad of assassins be against Traya.

 

OFFENSIVE SCENARIOS:

 

I see a couple different things G0-T0 could do here:

 

1.) HK-50s

Obviously the hardest-hitting units in G0-T0's powerbase. We've already gone over how Traya will not be able to see this attack coming, nor will she be able to sense them through the Force or sight. The only warning she will have is a few seconds before she is shot by probably dozens of blaster bolts. Beni brought up a good point, which is that Malachor's Core is a giant hole; the HKs could drop down directly into it. Traya will most likely be alone in the chamber, making it HKs vs. Traya. With the element of surprise and Traya's lack of senses, the HKs could (theoretically) defeat her.

 

2.) Other Droids

Again, Traya will not be able to see this attack coming, seeing as they are droids. These droids, including fake G0-T0s and Remote-clones, could land on Malachor and attempt to activate the Mass Shadow Generator. They're small and also deadly, while not being affected by Malachor's darkness. A lot like the remote. The G0-T0 clones could stealth as well, avoiding any defenses or Storm Beasts. Being the brilliant droid computer that he is, G0-T0 could probably equip one of his droids with a hacker/slicer. G0-T0 obviously knew of the MSG, so this would be a key plan of attack.

 

Number 1 and 2 would probably be done at the same time.

 

3.) Gand

Firstly, the Findsmen, who G0-T0 used, were all force-sensitive and their breath-masks would protect them from gases, so they can be on Malachor. They are also plenty capable of using Stealth tech (that G0-T0 obviously has). They've also been known to be experts at technology, with several becoming weapons specialists and engineers. Obviously they won't be going for Traya, but the MSG. The MSG was pretty much unguarded, and even if it is the Gand will have stealth to hide them. Which would also allow them to get past the storm beasts. The only downside is that Traya will (apparently) be able to sense the future and that they are coming.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Warren-Stride

Edit: Also, we haven't taken Traya's fleet and the gravity well generators into account. She could just go to Nar Shaddaa and trap G0-T0 there while her fighters search for his ship.

 

DEFENSIVE SENARIOS:

 

That's like finding a needle in a hay-stack.

 

And G0-T0 could do several other things as well.

 

1.) Land his ship.... but keep it stealthed

G0-T0 could dock his yacht, but keep the stealth generator running. He doesn't even need to keep it stealthed, just land it secretly. Its presence would go undetected, seeing as this would be an Exchange dock, and Traya would search and search the sky while the Visionary is actually on the ground.

 

2.) Disappear to an Exchange Base

Similar to the last, G0-T0 could simply disappear into Nar Shaddaa's underworld. Keep his ship in orbit, but use an escape pod or something to transfer himself to the surface, avoiding Traya's fighters and gravity well. This could be done with option 3.

 

3.) Flood the Streets.... with G0-T0s (My Favorite!)

G0-T0 has many Sentry Droid Mark 1's in his powerbase, and can obviously make and/or buy more, considering he has the schematics.... they're just like him. Less advanced, but exactly identical to G0-T0 in appearance. So G0-T0 sends his decoys into the streets of Nar Shaddaa. Any one of them could be G0-T0. Would Traya fall for this ploy? Maybe not. But then, maybe G0-T0 is one of them. Having hundreds of G0-T0 droids floating around Nar Shaddaa would leave Traya with limited choices. Hunt them all down or ignore them. All the while, the real G0-T0 could be hiding on his yacht or an Exchange base. Or roaming the streets, safe if Traya doesn't bother with them.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Warren-Stride

I think ground forces are more important, and G0-T0 will have his factory locked down tight. So a ground battle is likely.

 

Well, if Malachor will corrupt his biological forces, G0-T0 would probably send the Zhug Brothers and the Ubese bounty hunters, along with other Exchange forces like the Gamorreans and the aliens of the Jekk'jekk Tar, to guard the bunker. Notice = bunker. It's well defended in of itsself, if G0-T0 fortifies it, the factory is gonna be VERY hard to destroy.

 

Also, we don't know exactly how many HKs G0-T0 has, but I imagine it's a lot, seeing as he's been producing them for years. Even if he loses the factory, he'll have more than enough HK-50s for attacks on Malachor/Traya.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Warren-Stride

Personally, I don't see how effective sitting on Malachor is going to be for Traya. Really, G0-T0 could just drop in a few droids and figure out a way to reactivate the Mass Shadow Generator. Traya's best option is to leave Malachor and either set up somewhere else or sit in one of her ships. Either that or find a way to permanently remove the MSG from the equation. I don't know how she could do that, but doing so would greatly increase her chances.

 

Either option would give her the ability to send her assassins to infiltrate Nar Shaddaa and gather intelligence for her.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Aurbere

Personally, I don't see how effective sitting on Malachor is going to be for Traya. Really, G0-T0 could just drop in a few droids and figure out a way to reactivate the Mass Shadow Generator. Traya's best option is to leave Malachor and either set up somewhere else or sit in one of her ships. Either that or find a way to permanently remove the MSG from the equation. I don't know how she could do that, but doing so would greatly increase her chances.

 

Either option would give her the ability to send her assassins to infiltrate Nar Shaddaa and gather intelligence for her.

I think that the best way to kill G0-T0 is to exhaust his powerbase and draw him out. As Warren said, finding G0-T0 is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Beniboybling

I think that the best way to kill G0-T0 is to exhaust his powerbase and draw him out. As Warren said, finding Traya is like finding a needle in a haystack.

 

She was speaking of G0-T0. Unless that was a typo.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

She was speaking of G0-T0. Unless that was a typo.

Lol, oops.

I think another scenario could be to send G0-T0's biological forces somewhere and group them together- to make Traya and her Sith believe that they are protecting the HK's. Now Traya's not stupid, but sending many troops into one place will make her curious, maybe curious to send a couple assassins. G0-T0 could effectively do this in enough places to make Traya believe he has many factories.

Aurbere, you are undoubtedly correct. Forget G0-T0 for a minute, the MSG is here and could go off at any moment. Traya would most definitely move, but where to? Beni, you mentioned Korriban, but Traya would not have the same power she has at Malachor, nor would she have the Trayus Core. Yet on Korriban she has many options with the amount of Temples and ruins. Finding her this way could be hard. But droids are created for many purposes. G0-T0 could create scout droids to investigate or simply bring in assassins with stealth and search them out.

I think we can agree that each participant in the Kaggath will take the offensive. Their assassins will search for each other, and they will both go into hiding in one way or another.

 

G0-T0 will activate the MSG, destroying Malachor V. However, Traya will have fled to a more secure location.

 

Traya's assassins will eventually infiltrate and destroy the HK Factory on Telos, since the more security there is, the easier it will be to find, but that security can at best only delay the inevitable.

 

Unless a pitched battle takes place at the HK Factory, and both sides commit more forces...

 

This is one point at which a strategic decision needs to be made. How much will each side be willing to commit to this fight? We could see all of their forces come together in a bid to wipe out the other's power base in one fell swoop.

Traya's assassins will eventually infiltrate and destroy the HK Factory on Telos, since the more security there is, the easier it will be to find, but that security can at best only delay the inevitable.

 

The HK factory had plenty of defenses, including various battle-droids, turrets, and mines. Not to mention that HK-50s will naturally be guarding the HK factory. Like, a lot of them.

 

We can see Traya's assassins fighting non-force users when they attacked the Mandalorain base on Dxun. They aren't super-advanced killer machines. The Mandalorians were able to hold them off, and undoubtably the HKs will be able to defeat them as well.

 

The HK factory won't be destroyed by assassins alone.

 

To get a glimpse of the HKs the assassins would have to go through, refer to this picture.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Warren-Stride

The HK factory had plenty of defenses, including various battle-droids, turrets, and mines. Not to mention that HK-50s will naturally be guarding the HK factory. Like, a lot of them.

 

We can see Traya's assassins fighting non-force users when they attacked the Mandalorain base on Dxun. They aren't super-advanced killer machines. The Mandalorians were able to hold them off, and undoubtably the HKs will be able to defeat them as well.

 

The HK factory won't be destroyed by assassins alone.

 

To get a glimpse of the HKs the assassins would have to go through, refer to this picture.

 

That's a good point about the assassins, but they were facing Mandalorians. So it's not like they are inept, but you are correct that they aren't super advanced killers.

 

That picture has alot of droids in them. The question is, how many of them are active and combat ready? Probably quite a few, but I doubt all of them are ready.

That picture has alot of droids in them. The question is, how many of them are active and combat ready? Probably quite a few, but I doubt all of them are ready.

 

Well okay, it's a factory, so obviously it's making droids which won't be able to fight because they're not ready yet. But that pick shows HKs that are fully assembled and ready to go. And that's not all of the factory. Also note that G0-T0 has been producing these for years. And in the cut content, HK-47 and the Exile had to fight through a ton (I don't know the exact number).

Well okay, it's a factory, so obviously it's making droids which won't be able to fight because they're not ready yet. But that pick shows HKs that are fully assembled and ready to go. And that's not all of the factory. Also note that G0-T0 has been producing these for years. And in the cut content, HK-47 and the Exile had to fight through a ton (I don't know the exact number).

 

Well, I haven't played the cut content, but as we see through out the Clone Wars, factories are well defended and well stocked with droids. So I would assume that the factory is well guarded by droids 'hot off the press'

 

But how effective are these droids, really? Remember that three of them were taken out by T3. That could just be a defficiency in their programming when it comes to destroying astromech droids, or simply because T3 is so awesome (let's face it, he is ). I am inclined to believe the latter.

 

If a battle does come to the HK factory, Traya has to win. If she fails, she has done no damage to G0-T0 and shot herself in the foot. So how much of Traya's army (small as it is) will need to be sent to destroy the factory? Quite a big portion, but if the factory is destroyed, she will have a much better chance of winning, or at the very least survive longer.

 

I think it is possible, but it will most likely deplete a good majority of her forces. She does have the Sith going for her.

But how effective are these droids, really? Remember that three of them were taken out by T3. That could just be a defficiency in their programming when it comes to destroying astromech droids, or simply because T3 is so awesome (let's face it, he is ). I am inclined to believe the latter.

 

I hate this example, because then people bash T3 to try and make their argument better. But you're right, he's freaking awesome, he's been upgraded so many times.... like really, what astromech droid has a built-in blaster? He even challenged the Sith Emporer! Then died like 2 seconds into the battle....

 

Anyways, if you want to be technical about it, the HKs used flamethrowers against him, which have never historically been super great against droids. One of the drops from that battle is also a matrix that gives a boost to droids when attacking "biologicals". So they were obviously designed to kill living things (which Traya's assassins are) rather than droids like T3.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Warren-Stride

She does have the Sith going for her.

 

How is she going to get them off Malachor? That's my question.

 

And, if she does, won't their power be far less, seeing as they aren't drawing from the dark side nexus?

Well, I haven't played the cut content, but as we see through out the Clone Wars, factories are well defended and well stocked with droids. So I would assume that the factory is well guarded by droids 'hot off the press'

 

But how effective are these droids, really?

Indeed. HK droids are not war droids, or battle droids even. They are cunning assassins, usually relying on surprise and ambush to eliminate their prey. It would probably be an even match, except that the Sith have lightsabers and force powers, and the HK droids will probably make heavy use of flamethrowers, grenades, etc.

 

If a battle does come to the HK factory, Traya has to win. If she fails, she has done no damage to G0-T0 and shot herself in the foot. So how much of Traya's army (small as it is) will need to be sent to destroy the factory? Quite a big portion, but if the factory is destroyed, she will have a much better chance of winning, or at the very least survive longer.

This is not the type of battle which can be committed to halfway, and both sides will know this. The victor would secure a significant advantage, unless their own forces were so devastated in the attempt as to be rendered combat ineffective.

 

Consider their outside assets as well. What reinforcements can be committed to the fight if necessary?

 

Can a feint be executed? Are there secondary targets that may be engaged during the fight, either to draw off enemy reinforcements or to ensure damage to the enemy's infrastructure?

I hate this example, because then people bash T3 to try and make their argument better. But you're right, he's freaking awesome, he's been upgraded so many times.... like really, what astromech droid has a built-in blaster? He even challenged the Sith Emporer! Then died like 2 seconds into the battle....

 

Anyways, if you want to be technical about it, the HKs used flamethrowers against him, which have never historically been super great against droids. One of the drops from that battle is also a matrix that gives a boost to droids when attacking "biologicals". So they were obviously designed to kill living things (which Traya's assassins are) rather than droids like T3.

 

I still don't see why T3 had to be in that fight in the first place.

 

But anyway, I see your point on the programming.

 

How is she going to get them off Malachor? That's my question.

 

And, if she does, won't their power be far less, seeing as they aren't drawing from the dark side nexus?

 

The same way she gets them on the planet I suppose. Getting off the planet seems a bit hazy. It's not like she can rip ships out of the vortex like Nihilus did. I would assume that they will get off in the same manner that Sion did. Unless he left with Nihilus.

 

Well, it's not like they are powerless off Malachor. But they are less so when away from Malachor. I wouldn't say that they are completely inept off of Malachor, just not as effective when on Malachor. I guess they would be comparable to the average Sith Warrior.

*that’s right the Mass Shadow Generator is permitted in this battle, in order to make up for a disadvantage that as a non-force sensitive G0-T0 would have difficulty overcoming - and also taking into account that in a real Kaggath the Mass Shadow Generator would be very much operational.

 

Lol, that is just OP then. I guess they're both destroyed when the planet they're on gets it.

That's a good point about the assassins, but they were facing Mandalorians. So it's not like they are inept, but you are correct that they aren't super advanced killers.

 

That picture has alot of droids in them. The question is, how many of them are active and combat ready? Probably quite a few, but I doubt all of them are ready.

Also werent those assassins suposed to get stronger against force users? i mean they were trained for that specialy. If i recall correctly from KOTOR II.

 

Well, I haven't played the cut content...

 

It makes it so oh much better

Edited February 25, 2013 by Spartanik

Also werent those assassins suposed to get stronger against force users? i mean they were trained for that specialy. If i recall correctly from KOTOR II.

 

 

 

It makes it so oh much better

 

The assassins get stronger when near Force users. However, they aren't useless. Like we saw on the Harbinger, the assassins took control of that ship. And they still have combat training, so they are capable of fighting.

How is she going to get them off Malachor? That's my question.

Well, its clearly not impossible seeing as we see Sith on Dxun and Onderon, and we see Sith assassins on Korriban. We are also aware that before the events of KOTOR II the Sith have been striking against the Jedi across the galaxy.

 

But if you mean how is she going to get the Sith out before the big boom, then good question. Foresight will play a big part in this, I reckon if Malachor is to be destroyed, Traya will see it as soon as the Kaggath begins. As soon as. And then transfer her academy to Korriban and perhaps make Malachor some kind of trap...

 

Also, what if Traya goes on full offensive? What is she leads the charge on the Telos factory. Strangely enough this makes her harder to kill because in the heat of battle she is aware and expecting attack, and stealth attacks become much harder to pull off.

However, they aren't useless. Like we saw on the Harbinger, the assassins took control of that ship.

 

In comparison, one HK-50 droid took over the entire Peragus mining facility and killed all the miners on board. Although it wasn't nessesarily personally, he took control of the droids and other defenses of the station. While keeping both the Exile and Traya sedated. HK-50's are cunning and crafty, using their envirnoment to their advantage, something I have yet to see assassins do.

In comparison, one HK-50 droid took over the entire Peragus mining facility and killed all the miners on board. Although it wasn't nessesarily personally, he took control of the droids and other defenses of the station. While keeping both the Exile and Traya sedated. HK-50's are cunning and crafty, using their envirnoment to their advantage, something I have yet to see assassins do.

Yep they are much better and effective at assassinating as well. They blend in much better, with the cover of being protocol droids for instance.

To be honest, HK-50s being able to pose as simple protocol droids seems rather stupid lol. I mean, why didn't it strike anyone as odd that a droid resembling an HK-24 assassin droid is a simple protocol droid? The last thought, I would think an HK-50 to be is a simple protocol droid.

 

Especially when HK stands for Hunter Killer...hmm...

Edited February 26, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi