These would have been helpful to say yesterday. As it is, the post yesterday created confusion because it offered no timeline, but then immediately began discussing UI changes in 1.2, which made a lot of people tie the two together and think "oh, no more changes to the UI until 1.2 in March."

How did it create confusion? Do people forget what separate paragraph mean anymore? He said

Hey everyone, thank you to all of you who gave constructive feedback here. We've closed the poll as we feel we have a good indication of your opinions. As I said previously, changes will be made to the global cooldown and we'll bring you more information when we have a solid timeline to share.

That was PARAGRAPH number one. Now in PARAGRAPH number two.

Possibly more than any part of the game, UI is a very subjective topic, so we understand the varied opinions expressed here. The long-term aim for The Old Republic is to give players flexibility in their UI choices and the changes coming for Game Update 1.2 will allow for more of that.

If anyone took that as it being March til the UI is fixed more is just looking for something to poke at.

Last but not least; add-ons are still under discussion, but there's no current timeline for when that functionality might be implemented. While add-ons would give a lot more potential options (assuming a robust add-on community), there will still always be many people who want to use the game's default UI (new players, for example!). Therefore it's important for us to ensure the UI that we have works well, hence our ongoing development and expansion of UI options.

I think you can safely assume a robust add-on community, given the number of WOW players who moved from there, and I agree that the default UI should be functionable and suitable to play out of the box - so improvements in 1.2 will be very much welcome. I certainly look forward to what features will be instore. On that topic do you have any juicy info you could leek as to what is in store?

Don't be too surprised, however, if the resulting feedback from the UI changes is not a huge amount different from what you have now. The expectation of the players far outweighs what I think is realistically likely to be changed. I'm not trying to be overly negative, I just feel that any "default UI" in this day and age will be found wanting. Of course I would be very happy to be proved wrong on this

subjective.

 

a LOT of people had the ilum bug, hardly any people suffer from the oh so serious health issues.

Poll says otherwise. Either way, BW could have reverted the UI earlier today when they brought down the servers to patch Ilum, yet they chose not to. Why they didn't do that until they can provide a better UI - and now that they've admitted the new UI is not working as intended, is beyond comprehension and just a big FU to everybody affected by the constant flashing in ones peripheral vision resulting in headaches.

I dont mind the new UI, but there is a fundamental problem with it.

When all the skills flash white at the end of the GCD, i cant see any of my skill icons for a fraction of time. It doesnt stop me from playing the game, but it hurts my response time.

If that final flashing could go away, i'd be totally fine with it.

I love this game, but the new UI has to go. I disliked the last change they made but this is worse. So far the system at launch was the best so far.

The constant forced UI changes are really annoying. It takes time to adjust to these changes everytime they do them.

Since we now have seen three different versions, would it be so difficult to allow an option in the menu to choose between the three?

How did it create confusion? Do people forget what separate paragraph mean anymore? He said

Before you flame someone, make sure you also have a good understanding of what you are flaming about. If I write one paragraph about the benefits of eating carrots, then a second paragraph about the benefits of eating carrots, the two are clearly linked together. I'm not talking about carrots from a different dimension. Similarly, paragraph 1 about the UI, paragraph 2 about the UI, any literate person will assume they are linked.

So now approaching 3 days of being unable to play a game I paid for.

First, this GCD change should have never been implemented. Bioware you either need to get better testers or yell at them to actually do their jobs.

Second, to anybody with a brain it was obvious the new GCD would be an issue mere hours after the patch was released. Yet Bioware did nothing, even creating a pointless poll.

Are you guys really that clueless?

Third rather than address an issue which makes the game unplayable for some (a minority, but nonetheless the game is completely unplayable to them) Bioware's dev team focuses on the Ilum bug which doesn't prevent people from playing the game!

Well done bioware, you have proven to me how completely incompetent you are. Let's just hope the poeple involved in this **** up aren't touching Mass Effect 3.

I like the change in principle. I think it could look nice if properly implemented.

It doesn't look good on the GCD, but I think it's great for normal cooldowns.

It shouldn't flash for the GCD, and it shouldn't 'grey out' for the GCD. I imagine it's mostly the constant flashing that is making people ill, not the animation during the GCD. So remove the flash (but maybe keep an option to have normal CDs flash when they come back up). Only grey out abilities that are on CD, out of range, or can't be activated (i.e.- rail shot with no dot on the target).

I think only greying out abilities that are on actual CD, out of range, or can't be activated would be the nice.

Overall, I like the aesthetic of the new effect when things are on CD. I think the flash could be nice for some people (like myself), but only as an option and only on abilities coming off of CD (not off of the GCD). Having your whole bar flash every 1.5 seconds is obnoxious, but having one ability flash when it comes off CD is fine.

All of these things make people play the way the want to play. Until all of the above and more is an option in the default UI people will not be satisfied. So I ask you, whats quicker - making all this happen or opening up the UI to the addon community?

/\ This. Nothing allows for community participation like giving them the tools to mod the UI. Just look at all the older, non-MMO games out there that allow for modding; people still play them because of their robust modding communities. Look at the current smartphone boom and how third party app development is related to it. No developer is ever going to have the resources to build all these tools and still have enough left over to develop content. Why not open it up and leave it to the community to assist?

It might be a matter of opinion but I REALLY can´t understand how some people "like" the new UI.

It´s horrendous . An UI should be clean, helpful and with as few animations as possible since it´s supposed to be the main interaction between the game and the user.

Are you guys serious when you tell me you like white borders on every fricking ability when you use just one ability.

Can you tell me you like having every f***** ability greyed out when you use a single ability and every f***** thing flashes just by using one ability?

I mean, seriously either you are on acids or that should be unbearable for most if not all normal persons.

Never once in my 10+ year mmo experience have I experienced an UI that looks like a f**** flash ad from early 90's internet pages.

If it was about originality I would give it a straight 10 since I never saw anything like that, but usabilty it´s 0.

I feel like saying at this point "This is madness!! no, this is Bioware".

and I´m saying this cause I alway loved BW and always have been a great supporter but this is going too far already when you have a team of designers/developers that are putting s*** like this out there.

Poll says otherwise. Either way, BW could have reverted the UI earlier today when they brought down the servers to patch Ilum, yet they chose not to. Why they didn't do that until they can provide a better UI - and now that they've admitted the new UI is not working as intended, is beyond comprehension and just a big FU to everybody affected by the constant flashing in ones peripheral vision resulting in headaches.

No, the polls says the majority of people don't like it. Not everyone that doesn't like it has physical side effects from it.

My main issue was with the nausea and headaches.

I've isolated the cause of that to the pulse/flash at the end of the GCD cycle and having both side bars up and full of abilities.

After two days of frustration and throwing my teddy into the corner I decided to put core abilities into the bottom bars and remove the side bars. Also, with consideration and no longer having to try and focus on the full height of the side bars I lowered my point of focus from the shoulder/head region of my avatar to their legs/feet (the bottom third of the screen)

These two simple steps removed the ill effects completely for me, of course biology being as varied as it is YMMV.

With the ill effects of playing removed I got to actually spend some time appraising the change.

It just seems like a high contrast version of went before. The dark shadow, the thicker white line, the white overlay just seem to me an enhanced more intense version.

Only the pulse/flash seems to be a new addition.

Resource management and the build up/ depletion of rage is handled by its own tracker. A line of orange segments its easy to see and tell whether you should have an ability ready from this. Certainly from going onto my 40th level Marauder i've not noticed any difference in my ability to tell when an ability will be available or not, if anything I hate to admit that it is clearer.

Ideally I would like to see both a high contrast GCD/ low contrast GCD option.

Removal of the GCD pulse/flash.

Maybe the option when the UI customisation is released to have all four bars at the bottom of the screen.

It's the flashing, yeah. I don't look at the hotbars, I keep my eyes on the action. Meaning my peripheral vision is constantly picking up flashing hotbars every 1.5 seconds from left, right and bottom parts of my monitor. As a melee character all hotbars flash nonstop during combat, every 1.5 seconds. If you google it up, you'll find that constant flashing in ones peripheral vision is a health issue and can result in headaches, seizures and in rare cases, even the loss of sight.

What I don't get is how people are not affected by the new UI. Either people don't use their abilities nonstop (fair enough regarding some classes) or they have the mother of all tunnel visions and no peripheral vision.

Here is the video of my gameplay and the new UI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZulDrYZ4CY0

Please look at it in full HD while you take a step back from the monitor and stare at the middle of the screen, as in, on-going action. Tell me you don't see constant blue lights flashing every 1.5 seconds from both left, right and bottom parts of your monitor. If that's the case then I'm afraid you have no peripheral vision. To make things worse, turn off the lights, while not ideal, it is a wellknown fact many enjoy playing in dark environments, be it their bedroom or private office. And as a final word, The Civil War is a pretty bright environment/warzone, the flashing effect is ten times worse in, say, dark instances.

And that's even not mentioning the hideous design that is the constant GCD flashing blue every 1.5 seconds over mostly blue icons (if Republic). Or the fact that melee characters never get to the point of having their icons lit at all during combat as the icons just stay greyed out.

It's the flashing, yeah. I don't look at the hotbars, I keep my eyes on the action. Meaning my peripheral vision is constantly picking up flashing hotbars every 1.5 seconds from left, right and bottom parts of my monitor. As a melee character all hotbars flash nonstop during combat, every 1.5 seconds. If you google it up, you'll find that constant flashing in ones peripheral vision is a health issue and can result in headaches, seizures and in rare cases, even the loss of sight.

What I don't get is how people are not affected by the new UI. Either people don't use their abilities nonstop (fair enough regarding some classes) or they have the mother of all tunnel visions and no peripheral vision.

I have two words that explain it: psychosomatic illness.

No, the polls says the majority of people don't like it. Not everyone that doesn't like it has physical side effects from it.

It's been beat to death. The poll didn't have an option for I hate it because it makes me physically ill. Nor did it have an option for it's OK but needs tweaking. They're going to do what they're going to do. They're not going to tell us when it's going to be done until they're ready, if then, and they're not even going to acknowledge that their UI change created MMORPG history by being the first MMO to actually make a large number of healthy individuals sick.

I have two words that explain it: psychosomatic illness.

and you sir are an ***

I have two words that explain it: psychosomatic illness.

So if people aren't negatively effected in a physical sense by the new UI they have a mental illness? Give me a break.

So if people aren't negatively effected in a physical sense by the new UI they have a mental illness? Give me a break.

I believe the guy was implying that if you are getting headaches that it is just all in your head.

and you sir are an ***

No need to be rude.

Also, the term "large number" is relative, and in the case of your previous post, I believe, miss used.

So if people aren't negatively effected in a physical sense by the new UI they have a mental illness? Give me a break.

That's the opposite of what I was implying.

Let me further clarify that I am not saying it is imposable that the new UI could give some people headaches. More that if in the case of the person I quoted, who had researched the subject heavily, it was more likely the cause.

subjective.

 

a LOT of people had the ilum bug, hardly any people suffer from the oh so serious health issues.

I haven't even made it to Ilum yet, I don't even really know what it is..... so that problem shouldn't be fixed. But I am suffering from headaches from this UI, so it should be fixed.

See how self-centered we all are when a problem doesn't effect us? Why don't you go lurk around in the Ilum bug thread (oh wait, its been fixed now right??) instead of staying here belittling people.

No need to be rude.

You just told people who have dizziness and headaches from flashing at the edge of their vision that they are basically imagining symptoms. That was rude.

No need to be rude.

Your comment was also rude guy. Unless you are a doctor you shouldn't be telling people they're crazy.

If you are offering free medical advice I'm sure tons of people would love to ask you questions.

I think you can safely assume a robust add-on community, given the number of WOW players who moved from there, and I agree that the default UI should be functionable and suitable to play out of the box - so improvements in 1.2 will be very much welcome. I certainly look forward to what features will be instore. On that topic do you have any juicy info you could leek as to what is in store?

 

Don't be too surprised, however, if the resulting feedback from the UI changes is not a huge amount different from what you have now. The expectation of the players far outweighs what I think is realistically likely to be changed. I'm not trying to be overly negative, I just feel that any "default UI" in this day and age will be found wanting. Of course I would be very happy to be proved wrong on this

This.

To stephens point about addons being under discussion:

MMO UI's are a very different HCI problem than single player games. Yes, you need a minimally functional UI. But every player needs to visualize data differently. I need to visualize and organize my operative in a similar way to my assassin, not because they are particularly similar, but because one is my main, the other is an alt.

What data do I need to visualize? Well check out the most popular addons on curse to get an idea. Recount, DBM, atlasloot, Omen, Bartender, Playerscore, Auctioneer, Gatherer.

Recount and Omen are basically tools to visualize the combat log. It's really inexcusable that I need to use 3rd party tools to get this information at all, but if you want to design encounters to put pressure on DPS to make enrage timers, burst timers etc. well then you need to give us a means to understand dps, threat, what just killed that guy, etc. Right now you're relying on the fact that your mechanics are a carbon copy of WoW, and the vast majority of us played those mechanics for years and know them inside and out. But that is a fundamentally flawed premise to base your HCI on moving forward.

Atlasloot is more like in game torhead. I really shouldn't need to go to a website, ever not even swtor.com to get information I need in game. Patch notes? Should be in game. Loot tables? Should be in game. Maps of every zone I can look around so I can figure where I'm supposed to go. Should be in game.

Omen- essentially the same thing as recount.

Bartender. This is what you're doing. But what if I want 7 action bars and not 4? How about 8?

Playerscore: Always a load of controversy, but it is useful. The most important information you can tell me is what gear is good for me. And you don't. Playerscore says that. It also says it about other people, and whether or not they bothered to read information that should be provided in game, but is actually on sithwarrior.com. This solves a problem for some people, but not everyone, and is a detriment to some. This is going to all come together in a sec....

Auctioneer. Auctioneer is actually more complex than most people need. But the AH interface in WoW is too basic, (in tor it's too non functional, so this isn't really the same thing, until you can make searches, filters and sorts work properly a mod isn't going to be able to save it). It's a tool of layered sophistication for people who just want to list 15 flasks, I'm sorry, stims, without 50 mouse clicks (accessibility!) and it's a tool to assess the 40 day moving average of columi earpieces with augment slots. Or something like that.

After that the list is much less general. Pretty much everyone needs some component of the visualization provided by those mods. Everyone needs omen, recount and by extension playerscore, however you want to manage that. Everyone needs some basic GTN/AH stuff.

Where Mods get *really* interesting is when you get past those. Grid and Clique? Vuhdo? Healbot? I'm not a healer so I don't profess to be an expert here, but those completely change how you heal. And each one is basically its own problem. Different people have different requirements and you're not going to meet them all.

There is a huge collection of UI skins, spell flashes for each class, DKP mods for people who want to keep loot fair, and not this random burstyness it currently is.

Frankly the people who make mods as a community understand HCI design better than whomever you hired to make your UI. And they always will, because in proper user centred design, with 1.7 million players, you have 1.7 million different ways you want data visualized for you. And your tools right now can't even animate a cooldown in a way 60% of the playerbase likes (which doesn't make it bad, unpopular to 60% does not mean it's bad, just not suitable for everyone). This a losing battle. Sony lost this battle in what, 2002 with EQ. That you're still fighting just makes you look out of touch with reality.

That's the opposite of what I was implying.

 

Let me further clarify that I am not saying it is imposable that the new UI could give some people headaches. More that if in the case of the person I quoted, who had researched the subject heavily, it was more likely the cause.

You have zero basis to claim that it is more likely people are imagining their headaches than actually having them.

No need to be rude.

 

Also, the term "large number" is relative, and in the case of your previous post, I believe, miss used.

With 1.7 million accounts you can easily have a large number of folks suffering from physical illness as a result of this poorly thought out UI change without it being a large percentage. Or do you not understand something that simple?