survivability is always nice,

Sub 50, both classes are fine, survivability-wise.

At 50, you can go Hybrid Lightning/Corruption for Sorc. If you don't, then this is the section for you, since you're asking for good survivability.

title says it all really, looking for mainly pvp may do a little bit of pve. would like to stay alive in pvp and be a useful healer in which can support the team well. but yes survivability is always nice, thank you for your time!

Operatives are the best healers in the game. A good operative healer will out heal any mercenary or sorcerer healer. Operatives also have the best crowd control and survivability between all three of the healers (cover, stealth, sap, and flashbang being big ones). They are also extremely mobile with most of their heals being instant. At 30% health they have an instant free spammable heal as well. Basically, their tool set for healing and staying alive is way better than a sorcerer's.

Sorcerers are the second best healers in the game. This is because of their Static Barrier skill, or "bubble" as most people refer to it. It can be placed on anyone on your team, and when it breaks (if you have the Backlash talent) it stuns everyone around that person for 3 seconds. Also because sorcerers have a friendly pull which has great impact on the Huttball map (and is still very useful on other maps). That being said, sorcerers have the lowest survivability of any A/C in the game, not just out of the healer A/Cs. You do not have a defensive cool down. Meaning, you have no skill on a long cool down that will reduce or prevent damage being done to you for a set amount of time. Your heals are all casted. You have no real worthwhile instant heal accept for Unnatural Preservation which you can only use on yourself and has a 30s cool down.

So to sum up. If you want to be able to cast a lot of heals while moving, and beat most everyone in heals the majority of the time (and also have great crowd control and survivability), then operative is for you.

If you don't mind having lower survivability and being forced to cast all of your heals while standing in place, then sorcerer is for you.

Sorcerer can be fun if you enjoy this type of play style and embrace it. But you will never be able to heal like an operative as you are too restricted by having two, 3 second cast time heals. Your only instant heal is on a 30s cool down, meanwhile an operative can spam an instant heal costing no energy at 30% hp or less along with other instant heals. There really is no comparing the two. It comes down to what is more fun if you can't decide after reviewing facts like these alone.

Cheers.

First of all, I have both an operative and a sorc healer. I mostly PvP with my sorc healer but I do some pvp with the operative too, so I have a pretty good idea about the pros and cons of each class. I love both of them equally - the only healing class I do not like at all is Merc healing - but I do think you are being a bit harsh on Sorcerers.

Operatives are the best healers in the game. A good operative healer will out heal any mercenary or sorcerer healer. Operatives also have the best crowd control and survivability between all three of the healers (cover, stealth, sap, and flashbang being big ones). They are also extremely mobile with most of their heals being instant. At 30% health they have an instant free spammable heal as well. Basically, their tool set for healing and staying alive is way better than a sorcerer's.

Operatives after patch 1.3 (it was 1.3, right?) are on par with sorcerers in terms of healing output. What makes them "best healers" sometimes is that they have much more survivability and crowd control than sorcs. Therefore they survive longer -> they heal more. They are not only good healers, they can also enter and exit combat whenever they want (provided their combat stealth is off cooldown, of course) as opposed to sorcs who have to -one way or another- finish the fight they got themselves into. They also have good crowd control and yes, if the target's health is below 30% their free instaheal continues to stay up.

But there is a reason for all those things.

Sorcerers are the second best healers in the game. This is because of their Static Barrier skill, or "bubble" as most people refer to it. It can be placed on anyone on your team, and when it breaks (if you have the Backlash talent) it stuns everyone around that person for 3 seconds. Also because sorcerers have a friendly pull which has great impact on the Huttball map (and is still very useful on other maps).

First of all, when we're talking about Sorc vs Op healing we must make clear that we're talking about Pure Healing builds, not hybrids and that your opponents and allies are of equal skill and gear.

It's understandable that without one of their most important heals (Revivification - aka the Aoe Heal) that some Sorc healers choose to give up in order to get the Backlash talent and therefore up their survivability, it's unfair to say that they are healing for less than what Operatives heal for. And the Aoe heal, especially in warzones like the Voidstar could make a Sorc outheal an equally skilled Operative healer.

Also unfair: The bubble does not count as healing when you look at the numbers at the end of the warzone.

Which brings me back to your previous statement about OP healing:

At 30% health they have an instant free spammable heal as well.

Yes they do. But on the either hand, Operatives have no way of preventing damage, like Sorcs do. That's their "bubble" (which counts in the final warzone numbers, unlike the Sorc bubble) because they have no way of shielding their opponent.

But I can guarantee you that the combination of Bubbling up an ally and pulling him to you, away from the 3 other people (aka Marauders) that are beating him down, can be much, much more effective than the Operative's instaheals, that could or could not crit, could or could not outheal the damage etc.

That being said, sorcerers have the lowest survivability of any A/C in the game, not just out of the healer A/Cs. You do not have a defensive cool down. Meaning, you have no skill on a long cool down that will reduce or prevent damage being done to you for a set amount of time. Your heals are all casted. You have no real worthwhile instant heal accept for Unnatural Preservation which you can only use on yourself and has a 30s cool down.

This is all true. Except maybe that the bubble is an instacast. Maybe it's not instaheal but it does prevent damage. And preventing damage is sometimes the best - and most cost-effective - way of healing.

So to sum up. If you want to be able to cast a lot of heals while moving, and beat most everyone in heals the majority of the time (and also have great crowd control and survivability), then operative is for you.

 

If you don't mind having lower survivability and being forced to cast all of your heals while standing in place, then sorcerer is for you.

Ouch.

The way you're saying it is like saying "if you want to have fun, roll an Operative. If you want to get roflstomped and feel useless, roll an Sorc".

And it's not that way at all...

Yes, Sorcs may need a bit more pampering than Operatives but they can make a significant difference in warzones if tanks guard them and understand that they are not punching bags that can take a lot of beating without going down.

Sorcerer can be fun if you enjoy this type of play style and embrace it. But you will never be able to heal like an operative as you are too restricted by having two, 3 second cast time heals. Your only instant heal is on a 30s cool down, meanwhile an operative can spam an instant heal costing no energy at 30% hp or less along with other instant heals. There really is no comparing the two. It comes down to what is more fun if you can't decide after reviewing facts like these alone.

 

Cheers.

Sorcs are fun to play if you realize something: kiting is of the essence. People will see you in a warzone. In fact, they will seek you out because they know you can go down easier than an Operative healer and try to get you out of the way as soon as possible.

But, unlike Operatives, Sorcerers are fast. You can Force Run, Electrocute, Bubble yourself, Throw your enemies away from you and pull an ally to you to help you burn down the dps that's hurting you. If people don't realize that they need to protect their healers, no Healing class is good enough to make it on its own.

Even the free Operative instaheal below 30% HP - that Hairyzac seems to love so much - will not save you if 3 marauders are on you and you don't stun and kite them.

I would suggest you watch videos of people healing WZs as Sorcs and as Opeatives and see which play style suites you most.

I love healing on my sorcerer. I told the truth. I don't have to read anything you wrote as everything I wrote is 100% correct. So you wasted your time. Sorry. Also the bubble does count as healing at the end of a war zone.

Lol, you're just so cheery and social

And, FYI, I didn't waste my time because my post was not directed at you

So yeah...Happy New Year.

Include "social skills" and "less hostility" in your New Year resolutions, won't you?

Thanks for all this brilliant feedback i think ill go sorc as it seems to be most fun, gotta have a bit of fun havnt ya?

thank you so much for making my choice clearer and making me finally make up my mind! true life savers!

Lol, you're just so cheery and social

And, FYI, I didn't waste my time because my post was not directed at you

So yeah...Happy New Year.

Include "social skills" and "less hostility" in your New Year resolutions, won't you?

I'm a nice guy. But you quoted my entire post and tried to make it seem like I was a fool. The fact you didn't even know bubble absorbs are counted on the end scoreboard just proves you didn't really know what you were talking about at all. Next time, if you have something to say that isn't directed at me, don't quote my ENTIRE post and break it up into sections and miserably fail to pick it apart.

Happy New Year. I'll take your last sentence into consideration.

Thanks for all this brilliant feedback i think ill go sorc as it seems to be most fun, gotta have a bit of fun havnt ya?

thank you so much for making my choice clearer and making me finally make up my mind! true life savers!

It is very fun. That is why I play it as my main.

I'm a nice guy. But you quoted my entire post and tried to make it seem like I was a fool. The fact you didn't even know bubble absorbs are counted on the end scoreboard just proves you didn't really know what you were talking about at all. Next time, if you have something to say that isn't directed at me, don't quote my ENTIRE post and break it up into sections and miserably fail to pick it apart.

 

Happy New Year. I'll take your last sentence into consideration.

Not that I really think this whole thing is worth my time, but whatever...

So, I'm confused. Didn't you say you wouldn't even read my post? How do you know I made you look like a fool?

You are probably right about the bubbles - that's what I had heard and I repeated it without looking into it a bit more - so thanks for catching my mistake and correcting it. Twice. Because apparently once is not enough. But yeah, "good guy".

Also, the reason I quoted your entire post (and believe me, I will never quote you again on anything, you can relax and keep your posts all to yourself) is that simply you presented things in a very bad light for sorcerers. You could've actually skipped the whole thing and just said "go operative" because your whole post seems to be about bashing sorc healers, even though you claim to have a main sorc healer.

A few examples:

Best/Second best healers in the game -> your opinion

You are comparing a Pure Medic tree to a hybrid Lightning/Corruption tree and keep saying that Ops will heal for more. That is unfair, no matter how you look at it.

When you say to someone "At 30% health they have an instant free spammable heal" but not inform them that you don't get to shield them like a sorcerer healer can, then that's being biased towards operative healers.

You said that they have better survivability - and they do - but made no mention of the fact that a sorc healer can move around the map quite faster than an op healer.

So, to sum up, I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to make you look like a fool. Believe me, you'd know it if I were.

I was merely trying to present the other side of the coin because I found that you were bashing sorc healers hard and that's OK, but when explaining how healing is to a new player who is asking for information, that's just wrong. If you had read my post before insulting me you would've known that I agree with you on most of the things you said (hence my original reply to the thread) but you took it to the extreme.

Do take my last sentence into consideration. I'd like to think that my post found you at a moment that you were angry with something entirely unrelated to this post and that you just took your frustration out here, because there is nothing in my post that would make you look like a fool except maybe your insulting reply to it.

If on the other hand you think you are the only one who can judge a class or that your posts in a public forum are immune to criticism...well... I don't really care

To interrupt the pissing contest a bit, I feel like I should point out bubble only stuns if you spec 17 points into lightning, which means you need to give up revivafication...

Carry on, carry on.

Hrhm...

I play mainly heal sorc at 50 and have and op that's about level 38. So I'm mainly familiar with sorc. The things I notice that haven't been mentioned are the general issues present at level 50 pvp.

Big things that irritates me as a sorc healer:

1. You are far more targeted than any other healer because people target both healers and sorcs as a class in general. They are seen as easy kills in comparison to other classes and get a lot of attention.

2. If you even think about perching somewhere even remotely strategic in huttball you'll be focused down thanks to that pull.

3. Casting revivification vs competent players is pretty freaking hard. That's the heal everyone wants to interuppt.

4. The burst of other classes is not even cute at level 50. When folks stack on you the pressure is rough making the idea of an escape seem like an unparalleled ability.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but as a long time sorc healer I think I'm going for a level 50 OP for now. Being able to re-position yourself every two minutes is valuable.

Also as a final comment. When running with a tank as a sorc under pressure you cannot spare heals to your teammates, mainly cause they are cast heals and your hot has a cooldown. Ops can easily drop hots on surrounding dps as they fight to keep both themselves and their tank alive. Which inflates their numbers over time. Energy management is also a lot more effective.

I'd say the big con's to OPs lay in utility. Ops are a true healing class and when I play one I miss the table turning abilitys I have on my sorc. As an OP you can keep everyone up but don't expect to do anything game changing on a regular basis. xD

Not that I really think this whole thing is worth my time, but whatever...

 

So, I'm confused. Didn't you say you wouldn't even read my post? How do you know I made you look like a fool?

You are probably right about the bubbles - that's what I had heard and I repeated it without looking into it a bit more - so thanks for catching my mistake and correcting it. Twice. Because apparently once is not enough. But yeah, "good guy".

 

Also, the reason I quoted your entire post (and believe me, I will never quote you again on anything, you can relax and keep your posts all to yourself) is that simply you presented things in a very bad light for sorcerers. You could've actually skipped the whole thing and just said "go operative" because your whole post seems to be about bashing sorc healers, even though you claim to have a main sorc healer.

 

A few examples:

Best/Second best healers in the game -> your opinion

You are comparing a Pure Medic tree to a hybrid Lightning/Corruption tree and keep saying that Ops will heal for more. That is unfair, no matter how you look at it.

When you say to someone "At 30% health they have an instant free spammable heal" but not inform them that you don't get to shield them like a sorcerer healer can, then that's being biased towards operative healers.

You said that they have better survivability - and they do - but made no mention of the fact that a sorc healer can move around the map quite faster than an op healer.

 

So, to sum up, I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to make you look like a fool. Believe me, you'd know it if I were.

I was merely trying to present the other side of the coin because I found that you were bashing sorc healers hard and that's OK, but when explaining how healing is to a new player who is asking for information, that's just wrong. If you had read my post before insulting me you would've known that I agree with you on most of the things you said (hence my original reply to the thread) but you took it to the extreme.

 

Do take my last sentence into consideration. I'd like to think that my post found you at a moment that you were angry with something entirely unrelated to this post and that you just took your frustration out here, because there is nothing in my post that would make you look like a fool except maybe your insulting reply to it.

 

If on the other hand you think you are the only one who can judge a class or that your posts in a public forum are immune to criticism...well... I don't really care

There is a difference between being immune to criticism and having a clueless person lecture you about your own class that I have played since beta. I'm kind of done here, but if you want to lecture everyone in this other thread (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=581052) who all wholeheartedly agree with me, give it a shot!

Disclaimer* I have both a Smuggler healer and a Sorc. Both are extremely strong in PVP if played well, however, the sorc is forced into a hybrid bubble blind spec. (We all know it will be nerfed and the team support it provides will be removed and so will a healing sorcs spot on a rated warzone team. ((Of course, this is all pending and based off a dev post which stated that they are toying with the bubble blind to be applied to the caster only.... instead of just fixing the resolve the blind provides: which is the real issue)).

A full heal spec'd (Aoe Puddle) sorc provides no team support and a severe lack of mobility (easily focused since the root break on sprint is easily countered). << These two issues right here and the severe lack of a defensive CD have been repeated in the Class Feedback thread for Sorcs since that thread was created. ALSO: I say no team support with the puddle because the puddle can be countered by dropping an AOE where the puddle is...thus...negating it completely.

On to the topic at hand: Operative healers are superior because of two simple facts:

1) Being able to heal on the move will always outweigh a healer that has to stop and cast. You can have probe (hot) up on 4 people and you're almost guaranteed to always have a free heal that hits from 1700 to 4k crit ready to go, while you're moving. (the same that Dark heal hits for... but no cast bar) This leads into a whole lot of ways for you to spring free of pesky melee or buys time to LoS the ranged. Depending how well your team is coordinated, operative healers are much, much harder to lock down and kill. (Not to mention the entirely too long stun of Flashbang)

2) The Vanish. A combat and target drop when you're being focused by ranged primarily/melee secondary and have nothing to LoS with is an absolute clutch ability to have. A lot of ranged can be tricked into thinking that the healer either died or ran away. Not to mention that when you vanish if the people targeting you were spam happy they will auto target someone else. Precious seconds of not being shot is enough to get the healer back to full and into the fight again.

BONUS PERKS: Kolto Injection is on a shorter cast time and hits harder then Dark Infusion. Operatives can get their energy back by channeling a heal (even though it's not much, it's still out going healing) and have an instant energy kick back for oh**** moments... Sorcs have to murder themselves for replenishment of force or wait to drop combat. (which operatives can also do by vanishing) Lastly: Flashbang. Depending on trinkets /dots / or AOE on whom you've blinded, you can effectively take them out of the fight for 8 seconds. That's a lifetime to top yourself and someone else off.

EDIT* I also wanted to add that I'm really hoping that the "class balance" that was spoken of for Makeb takes a serious look at the issues in the Sorc Class Feedback thread. I'm both excited, terrified and ready to be let down by the Bioware Development Team, but here's to being optimistic?

very in depth response! thank you so much i may just level then both and not worry about the time it takes thank you all so much for the positive and useful information, i will put good to use to this!

If you have the time...right on!