Pretty sure with this one trick pony, every single thing is a lag/latency issue... and I mean "everything".

 

Lets not even mention the Smuggler Video in the OP etc... nope, all just a bit of lag

The kolto injection one?

The initial one takes a second before it heals, which does look like server-client latency problems. The ones after that work fine...

Right up until it stops working at all.

A very interesting bug. One key thing to notice is that while it IS triggering the GCD, it is NOT consuming any resources. The ability isn't being delayed, it's simply not firing at ALL. It's not even being activated. The client is simulating activating it, but it's not actually activating.

A disconnection could cause that, but two things in the vid make it clear that he's not disconnected: whatever the heck resources that is that smugglers use, it keeps going back up even after it stops working. If he was disconned, it would've frozen. That guy in the distance by the flashpoint console wouldn't be moving around either.

So yes, I'd say there's probably some kind of bug with kolto injection...What causes it I haven't the faintest.

The only non-bug idea I have for that is that it has something to do with the fact he's at full HP already. The concept of 'overhealing' comes to mind, but I have no reason to believe it anything remotely close to applies in this game, nor have I ever heard of any MMO ever doing anything like that.

Just to rule out something of the sort though, it would probably be prudent to attempt to duplicate this while healing a damaged target. Just to rule out one possible variable.

WoW on release, in 2004, did not have a gameplay-breaking issue like this.

 

Blame the Beta testers for testing the "story" instead of actual gameplay.

I was a beta tester... and I made a post about this EXACT *********** THING OVER 3 MONTHS AGO.

The kolto injection one?

 

The initial one takes a second before it heals, which does look like server-client latency problems. The ones after that work fine...

 

Right up until it stops working at all.

 

A very interesting bug. One key thing to notice is that while it IS triggering the GCD, it is NOT consuming any resources. The ability isn't being delayed, it's simply not firing at ALL. It's not even being activated. The client is simulating activating it, but it's not actually activating.

 

A disconnection could cause that, but two things in the vid make it clear that he's not disconnected: whatever the heck resources that is that smugglers use, it keeps going back up even after it stops working. If he was disconned, it would've frozen. That guy in the distance by the flashpoint console wouldn't be moving around either.

 

So yes, I'd say there's probably some kind of bug with kolto injection...What causes it I haven't the faintest.

 

The only non-bug idea I have for that is that it has something to do with the fact he's at full HP already. The concept of 'overhealing' comes to mind, but I have no reason to believe it anything remotely close to applies in this game, nor have I ever heard of any MMO ever doing anything like that.

 

Just to rule out something of the sort though, it would probably be prudent to attempt to duplicate this while healing a damaged target. Just to rule out one possible variable.

That isn't a Smuggler... man, what is wrong with you? Also, ok "assuming" I was referring to this IA Video. No, its not just an "interesting bug" but its a result of the overall shoddy coding. Also, there is still about .2-.5 delay before the castbar/animation bugs out, this video showcases: Responsiveness Delay (.2-.5) and Bugs AS WELL as, the terrible UI itself...

It showcases GCD issues, Animation Issues, Responsiveness Issues and lack of UI Response. All in one nice video...

Anyways, no, not talking about the IA Video... I said Smuggler. :|

Let's not forget the game isn't even a month old.

Anyone who played WoW when it first came out and is actually honest with themselves can tell you how that game was in virtual shambles. Warlocks were hardly playable and Blizzard was constantly refunding days of game time due to downtime just to list a couple of things. Before anyone becomes overly critical, first try to comprehend the complexity of what is going on underneath it all, then try to realize that nothing is perfect.

They've done many many many more things right than WoW and other MMOs did on release, and you haven't given them sufficient time to fix what is needed if you're already hating on the game.

Let's not forget the game isn't even a month old.

 

Anyone who played WoW when it first came out and is actually honest with themselves can tell you how that game was in virtual shambles. Warlocks were hardly playable and Blizzard was constantly refunding days of game time due to downtime just to list a couple of things. Before anyone becomes overly critical, first try to comprehend the complexity of what is going on underneath it all, then try to realize that nothing is perfect.

 

They've done many many many more things right than WoW and other MMOs did on release, and you haven't given them sufficient time to fix what is needed if you're already hating on the game.

It was not in shambles. It was overloaded, and they didn't have any idea their game would be nearly as popular as it was.

The game controlled like a dream from the very beginning. Highly responsive, great feedback, and just plain fun. Server crashes and other technical problems Warcraft had at launch had nothing to do with the game being poorly made, and everything to do with how immensely popular it ended up being right out of the gate. NOBODY saw it coming.

 

Don't know if this has been posted, but here it is.

That's a client-server synchronization issue, caused at least in part by network latency, especially variability in the latency.

You'll notice that twice he mounts successfully, and once he doesn't even get the mount to appear. Every other time, the castbar pops back up with 'cancelled': this is the server overriding the client's estimation that you should be mounted.

Being able to duplicate it that reliably, however, does suggest some sort of problem that's exacerbating the timing discrepancy beyond just simple network latency.

As I said in the other thread. There could some delay between when the client starts the castbar and when it sends the message, a problem in the netcode for example. It could be taking the server a significant amount of time to start the timer...which frankly could just be caused by high load. Either would increase the discrepancy beyond any latency variation and make this much easier to do.

It could also just simply be that the timers on the client and the server are mismatched: It wouldn't have to be by much. 10 milliseconds or so would be more than enough. This could be a software issue, with one or the other set not quite properly. It could be a compiler issue, with some random thing is causing the timers to not work quite the same way. It could be a hardware issue: if the client's system is measuring a second to be a shorter period of time than the server is (which could be a problem with either box, or possibly even just manufacturing variations...but simple variations shouldn't make THAT much of a difference), it would also make this easier to do.

Let's not forget the game isn't even a month old.

 

Anyone who played WoW when it first came out and is actually honest with themselves can tell you how that game was in virtual shambles. Warlocks were hardly playable and Blizzard was constantly refunding days of game time due to downtime just to list a couple of things. Before anyone becomes overly critical, first try to comprehend the complexity of what is going on underneath it all, then try to realize that nothing is perfect.

 

They've done many many many more things right than WoW and other MMOs did on release, and you haven't given them sufficient time to fix what is needed if you're already hating on the game.

1) It doesn't matter if this game is out for 1 week or 1 year... we're talking core mechanics

2) WoW had a TERRIBLE Launch -- Irrelevant, it had NONE of these issues... I was there.

3) I love the game in itself, "many, many, many more things right than WoW" <--- Irrelevant

4) Haven't given them enough time to fix? Good, keeping pressure on them is a good thing.

That isn't a Smuggler... man, what is wrong with you? Also, ok "assuming" I was referring to this IA Video. No, its not just an "interesting bug" but its a result of the overall shoddy coding. Also, there is still about .2-.5 delay before the castbar/animation bugs out, this video showcases: Responsiveness Delay (.2-.5) and Bugs AS WELL as, the terrible UI itself...

 

It showcases GCD issues, Animation Issues, Responsiveness Issues and lack of UI Response. All in one nice video...

 

Anyways, no, not talking about the IA Video... I said Smuggler. :|

I should really probably flag this.

Anyway.

How the heck am I supposed to know which 'the smuggler video' is? I was assuming you were talking about one of the ones I hadn't mentioned, not that silly 7 second one where he switches targets that shows only a slight delay caused by the action queue and everything working perfectly otherwise.

As for the IA... I don't see any GCD issues, minimal responsiveness issues (there is a hitch at the end of the castbar before the heal appears, likely the same sync problem that's causing the mount thing), no responsiveness issues, or 'lack of UI response'(isn't that the same as responsiveness?)

Every time he hits an ability, the castbar pops up immediately, the GCD starts immediately and runs the correct length of time. Each activation takes only one click. The healing is applied roughly at the appropriate time, though there is an ungainly hitch after the castbar reaches the end.

Even after kolto injection stops working, the UI is absolutely perfectly responsive.

The animations however...lag behind what's actually happening with the abilities rather badly and ends up turning into a muddled mess. This does not, however, have any effect on the ability itself: it still goes off correctly, even when the animation is way, way off. Right up until it stops going off at all.

Seriously, other than the obvious, what is the problem here? It's really starting to sound like you just don't like the way the UI is designed.

NO, EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS POST IS WRONG

 

1) It doesn't matter if this game is out for 1 week or 1 year... we're talking core mechanics

 

2) WoW had a TERRIBLE Launch -- Irrelevant, it had NONE of these issues... I was there.

 

3) I love the game in itself, "many, many, many more things right than WoW" <--- Irrelevant

 

4) Haven't given them enough time to fix? Good, keeping pressure on them is a good thing.

Comparing the game to WoW is completely relevant considering ALL THREE of your quotes are comparing it to WoW. Calling it Irrelevant is only going to make a developer/mod/admin/whoever reading your posts think you're an idiot and overly critical ******e who doesn't understand the code that goes into a massive project like this.

I don't disagree with you in the fact that what you're talking about is definitely an issue. I think you're quite correct. But to be unforgiving and not give credit where it's due is only going to hurt your push. Yes, push, but you have no right to say "you can't compare it to WoW when talking about what they did RIGHT" but then cite three people who do nothing BUT compare it to WoW. There's a massive flaw in that logic, which WILL cause the people who MATTER to not listen and disregard your efforts. Again, I don't disagree that it needs to be fixed.

After roughly 3000 posts on this issue still no further comment from BioWare, except that meager comment? RLY?

I dont think we are griping here, these are legit issues that need adressing by them.

After roughly 3000 posts on this issue still no further comment from BioWare, except that meager comment? RLY?

 

I dont think we are griping here, these are legit issues that need adressing by them.

Valid or not, people are being disrespectful *****. No Bioware person should feel the need to justify wasting time responding to something they've already said they're working on. If you think it's simple, go make an MMO yourself. Then come back and talk.

Valid or not, people are being disrespectful *****. No Bioware person should feel the need to justify wasting time responding to something they've already said they're working on. If you think it's simple, go make an MMO yourself. Then come back and talk.

Yeah, like i said if you have any MMO experience or any skill you should be able to adapt to this until it's fixed. Everyone has this problem so you're not at a terrible disadvantage, they said they'd fix it soon adapt till then.

I should really probably flag this.

 

 

Every time he hits an ability, the castbar pops up immediately, the GCD starts immediately and runs the correct length of time. Each activation takes only one click. The healing is applied roughly at the appropriate time, though there is an ungainly hitch after the castbar reaches the end.

...

 

Seriously, other than the obvious, what is the problem here? It's really starting to sound like you just don't like the way the UI is designed.

It's the "roughly at the appropriate time" thats the issue. Frankly speaking, warcraft on a verizon aircard and 300ms of latency feels more responsive than this game. As a 'for instance' I can still interrupt <1.5 second casts in warcraft on my aircard and yet struggle to catch slow casted heals in this game with an interrupt on a <100ms cable modem.

I tend to be frantic on the interrupts (as many PVP players tend to be) as I was probably in the middle of something else when I spot the heal. What usually happens is my avatar shakes his hand like he's trying to get it off and if I'm lucky it MIGHT land before the heal does.

At the end of the day this is a video game and it should be able to respond at least partially to "twitch" gameplay. I shouldn't be forced to stare at my action bars to watch the GCD timer to determine that its safe to hit an ability. It's bad enough I have to stare at a 2 inch section of my screen to watch for procs.

A game like Old Republic SHOULD feel very fluid. The avatar on screen should feel like an extension of myself in the game world. Right now there is this sense of detachment as I realize that my abilities average ~10% failure rate of going off when I want them to.

Comparing the game to WoW is completely relevant considering ALL THREE of your quotes are comparing it to WoW. Calling it Irrelevant is only going to make a developer/mod/admin/whoever reading your posts think you're an idiot and overly critical ******e who doesn't understand the code that goes into a massive project like this.

 

I don't disagree with you in the fact that what you're talking about is definitely an issue. I think you're quite correct. But to be unforgiving and not give credit where it's due is only going to hurt your push. Yes, push, but you have no right to say "you can't compare it to WoW when talking about what they did RIGHT" but then cite three people who do nothing BUT compare it to WoW. There's a massive flaw in that logic, which WILL cause the people who MATTER to not listen and disregard your efforts. Again, I don't disagree that it needs to be fixed.

Of course compare to WoW... but all those comparisons are irrelevant...

Who cares if WoW crashed when it launched? is this thread about Launces? or about Responsiveness? WoW's responsiveness on Launch was the same as it is now (to a large degree).

And this is where you fail, it is not just a slight delay caused by ACTION QUEUE... there is no ACTION QUEUE (its 0.0)... this is SIMPLY CAUSE BY THE NEED FOR THE PREVIOUS ABILITY TO COMPLETE.

 

 

Sir, how are you this dense? Why are you? What horse do you have in this race? What is the point of enjoying to be so plainly wrong... why is it you refuse to acknowledge what has been made fact over the course of thousands of replies and discussion?

 

How can anyone take you serious anymore? You just keep parroting the EXACT same crap for every issue...

 

 

You so far, over 4 threads are one of the foremost Bioware Champions that we've had. Congratulations for what its worth.

How can you be so close-minded and ignorant? how can you be so safe in your assumptions that you aren't willing to consider any alternate viewpoint at all?

Are you so insecure that you HAVE to be right? Or do you just want to tear something down to make yourself feel big? Seriously...

The Bioware post as quoted by your OP says EXACTLY the same thing I am, more or less. That there's a lot of different issues here and lumping them together as generic 'responsiveness' problems is making it harder to figure out what's actually wrong in each case.

Also, I looked at the smuggler vid again. I found I'd been misinterpreting one frame, which led me to believe it was the action queue problem. Re-analysis clearly suggests that it is in fact on 0.0.

Unfortunately for you, the re-analysis also reveals that second ability firing approximately one frame after his second click, the first click managed after the GCD ended (the first click was early). The initial acceptance occurs before any of charged bolt's four projectiles are in the air. The resource pull occurs shortly after the second of the four projectiles is fired.

The second ability is activated before the first animation really starts, and is accepted and responded to by the server about halfway through it.

I'm preparing a screenshot I'll edit into the post when I get it done.

Valid or not, people are being disrespectful *****. No Bioware person should feel the need to justify wasting time responding to something they've already said they're working on. If you think it's simple, go make an MMO yourself. Then come back and talk.

Excuse me? Where am I being disrespectfull?

And secondly, no I can't build am MMO, but If I feel my car has a problem I go to the shop to ask about how they can fix that problem or even if they consider it a problem. Without the complete set of skills to build a car myself. Your statement is moot.

Yeah, like i said if you have any MMO experience or any skill you should be able to adapt to this until it's fixed. Everyone has this problem so you're not at a terrible disadvantage, they said they'd fix it soon adapt till then.

Its not the fact that there is a advantage or disadvantage. I personally don't like the way it plays right now. That directly correlates to me wanting to extend my subscription or not.

Excuse me? Where am I being disrespectfull?

And secondly, no I can't build am MMO, but If I feel my car has a problem I go to the shop to ask about how they can fix that problem or even if they consider it a problem. Without the complete set of skills to build a car myself. Your statement is moot.

 

 

 

Its not the fact that there is a advantage or disadvantage. I personally don't like the way it plays right now. That directly correlates to me wanting to extend my subscription or not.

Meh, they said they'd fix it soon so im going to give them time and at first it was terrible and annoying, you can get used to it and hold out till they fix it.

Characters need to feel a little more fluid when walking and jumping. Take the Night Elf female from WoW and compare it to a Human Female in TOR. When jumping in TOR it looks and feels stiff and unnatural, when jumping in WoW the animations and the way the character moves compliment the jump.

Character responsiveness is not that bad, but there's always room for improvement.

Characters need to feel a little more fluid when walking and jumping. Take the Night Elf female from WoW and compare it to a Human Female in TOR. When jumping in TOR it looks and feels stiff and unnatural, when jumping in WoW the animations and the way the character moves compliment the jump.

 

Character responsiveness is not that bad, but there's always room for improvement.

Wow you're way off, this thread has nothing to do with jumping...or running those are perfectly fine. It's about the character abilities firing on animation finish rather then cast finish.

That's a client-server synchronization issue, caused at least in part by network latency, especially variability in the latency.

 

You'll notice that twice he mounts successfully, and once he doesn't even get the mount to appear. Every other time, the castbar pops back up with 'cancelled': this is the server overriding the client's estimation that you should be mounted.

 

Being able to duplicate it that reliably, however, does suggest some sort of problem that's exacerbating the timing discrepancy beyond just simple network latency.

 

As I said in the other thread. There could some delay between when the client starts the castbar and when it sends the message, a problem in the netcode for example. It could be taking the server a significant amount of time to start the timer...which frankly could just be caused by high load. Either would increase the discrepancy beyond any latency variation and make this much easier to do.

 

It could also just simply be that the timers on the client and the server are mismatched: It wouldn't have to be by much. 10 milliseconds or so would be more than enough. This could be a software issue, with one or the other set not quite properly. It could be a compiler issue, with some random thing is causing the timers to not work quite the same way. It could be a hardware issue: if the client's system is measuring a second to be a shorter period of time than the server is (which could be a problem with either box, or possibly even just manufacturing variations...but simple variations shouldn't make THAT much of a difference), it would also make this easier to do.

Heh. You are babbling of things you obviously know nothing about. You are just an attention seeker imo but you are doing your job right. You have completely derailed the thread and we are talking about things that have nothing to do with this issue.

Look at statements like this:

It could be a hardware issue: if the client's system is measuring a second to be a shorter period of time than the server is (which could be a problem with either box, or possibly even just manufacturing variations

Hehe do you even know what are you writing? Lol.

It is ridiculous how some players claim they do not have the problem. They obviously do, but don't even notice it.

A few hundred hours logged now, and nope. I do not.

I think at least half of these people are whining about the character animation, and GCD.

Other than that...I can only guess what they are going on about. . Anything I have ever pressed happens immideatly.

A few hundred hours logged now, and nope. I do not.

 

I think at least half of these people are whining about the character animation, and GCD.

Other than that.... Anything I have ever pressed happens immideatly.

The issue is that the animation goes off instantly, but the damage does not happen instantly. People do not notice this because they are either unskilled, new to MMO's, or even don't pay attention to things like that. Weather you notice or not, it is there.

A few hundred hours logged now, and nope. I do not.

 

I think at least half of these people are whining about the character animation, and GCD.

Other than that...I can only guess what they are going on about. . Anything I have ever pressed happens immideatly.

I see. You are searching the "missing link".