Well, for those that don't know, there was an author by the name of Karen Traviss who came into Star Wars a while back. She had a personal obsession with Mandalorians and an agenda to make them the best thing since Lucas invented the lightsaber.

 

She made them better fighters pound for pound than Jedi.

She made them have weapons and armor that the Jedi couldn't match.

She gave them the best starfighters in Star Wars.

She pretty much Mary Sue'd the entire Mandalorian culture.

 

Thankfully... For the franchise... The Mandalorians, in canon, have been returned to what they should have been thanks to FotJ.

 

1. She made them better fighters pound for pound than Jedi.

 

In the series Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi we saw numerous clashes between Jedi and Mandalorians. The Mandos always had a numerical advantage and the Mandos always suffered losses. While we saw dozens of Mandalorian deaths we saw a grand total of one Jedi death despite numerous attempts and ambushes. The one Jedi death was an untrained, unarmed, Jedi apprentice who was all of fifteen years old. This categorically reduced the claims of Mandos down to being just that... Claims.

 

2. She made them have weapons and armor that the Jedi couldn't match.

 

Not only did we see lightsabers easily go around Beskar in FotJ, by aiming for the less armored joints and such, but we also saw them go through Beskar after several whacks. This is good because it makes Mando Iron decent but no longer nigh indestructible and a couple of whacks with a lightsaber still means a dead Mando.

 

However to sweeten the pot we were shown that Jedi can use the Force to shatter Beskar. (Shown by Jacen Solo and Luke Skywalker in Troy Denning's part of LotF) but they can also use techniques to pass right through it as was shown by an unarmed Barv in the ambush the Mandalorians sprang on them in another installment of Denning's run on LotF.)

 

3. They had the best Starfighters.

 

In FotJ it was revealed that the Republic now has fighters that are pound for pound better than the new Mando ships. As stated in the novel they were able " to go head to head with them and come out on top."

 

The Mando culture in Star Wars is now back to where it should be. They are not on par with Jedi or Sith but are the best of the best when it comes to mercenaries. They fetch top credits and they perform admirably. They are guns for hire that are more than worth hiring when one needs it.

 

All in all with the final nail in the coffin we once again have Star Wars back to the normal status quo!

Yeh the Fandalorian movement got smacked down and kicked a few times by Lucas anyway, this was only a matter of time before everything she did to them became irrelevant in the larger star wars universe.

 

Mandalorians didn't need to be OP and ridiculous, it just makes them seem unrealistic and hollow, the Jedi have always beaten them and the Sith have always manipulated them, they are an awesome addition to the Star Wars universe, they don't have to beat everyone and be better than everyone, they are great simply because of who they are, not how powerful.

Yeh the Fandalorian movement got smacked down and kicked a few times by Lucas anyway, this was only a matter of time before everything she did to them became irrelevant in the larger star wars universe.

 

Mandalorians didn't need to be OP and ridiculous, it just makes them seem unrealistic and hollow, the Jedi have always beaten them and the Sith have always manipulated them, they are an awesome addition to the Star Wars universe, they don't have to beat everyone and be better than everyone, they are great simply because of who they are, not how powerful.

 

Amen to that.

Yeh the Fandalorian movement got smacked down and kicked a few times by Lucas anyway, this was only a matter of time before everything she did to them became irrelevant in the larger star wars universe.

 

Mandalorians didn't need to be OP and ridiculous, it just makes them seem unrealistic and hollow, the Jedi have always beaten them and the Sith have always manipulated them, they are an awesome addition to the Star Wars universe, they don't have to beat everyone and be better than everyone, they are great simply because of who they are, not how powerful.

 

Agreed.

 

I like Mandalorians. I really hated what they were turned into. Now that they are back where they should be I feel like I can like Mandalorians again.

 

When you see a current, restored Mandalorian, fight toe to toe and nearly beat, or actually defeat, a Jedi it is awesome. That Mandalorian fought against incredible odds, faced an enemy who had every advantage, and through determination won. It is a great story.

 

It is what makes any story where a non-Sensitive beating a Force User actually rewarding. You have a normal guy, with no special powers, taking on a stronger force who has every advantage. When they win, or almost win, it is justified.

 

When you see a Mary Sue Mando beat a Jedi (Still very rare) it doesn't evoke the same feeling. It is kind of like a class in SWTOR beating a Jedi. It isn't an accomplishment.

 

It literally is:

 

"Okay, so you beat an enemy that you are equal in every way to, if not better than them in every way... That isn't impressive."

 

You really can't brag about beating someone that you were superior to in every conceivable way. It is like a Mary Sue Mando saying: "Oh yeah silly Jedi I beat you! I had armor that you couldn't cut through, weapons you couldn't defend against, special training that made me immune to all of your senses, and I had superior martial prowess on top of it all! I had every advantage over you and I won the fight!"

 

It is kind of expected.

Agreed.

 

I like Mandalorians. I really hated what they were turned into. Now that they are back where they should be I feel like I can like Mandalorians again.

 

When you see a current, restored Mandalorian, fight toe to toe and nearly beat, or actually defeat, a Jedi it is awesome. That Mandalorian fought against incredible odds, faced an enemy who had every advantage, and through determination won. It is a great story.

 

It is what makes any story where a non-Sensitive beating a Force User actually rewarding. You have a normal guy, with no special powers, taking on a stronger force who has every advantage. When they win, or almost win, it is justified.

 

When you see a Mary Sue Mando beat a Jedi (Still very rare) it doesn't evoke the same feeling. It is kind of like a class in SWTOR beating a Jedi. It isn't an accomplishment.

 

It literally is:

 

"Okay, so you beat an enemy that you are equal in every way to, if not better than them in every way... That isn't impressive."

 

You really can't brag about beating someone that you were superior to in every conceivable way. It is like a Mary Sue Mando saying: "Oh yeah silly Jedi I beat you! I had armor that you couldn't cut through, weapons you couldn't defend against, special training that made me immune to all of your senses, and I had superior martial prowess on top of it all! I had every advantage over you and I won the fight!"

 

It is kind of expected.

 

Precisely, I have loved Commander Jace Malcom ever since putting two(three?) Sith Marauders on their ### and then charging at a Sith Lord like he's nothing, then charging at the same guy that just kicked his ### again, going for a KO punch and detonating a Concussion Grenade in his face.

 

To quote Jenkins and Dr. Chakwas "That was awesome!"

 

Whenever I saw Traviss' Mandalorians doing anything of the sort I just /Yawn /Close.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who saw Travis's handeling on the Mando's as a little too pandering.

I mean...It's only natural that Boba Fett was the one who could train Jayna on how to defeat her Sith Lord brother, right? I mean, come on.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who saw Travis's handeling on the Mando's as a little too pandering.

I mean...It's only natural that Boba Fett was the one who could train Jayna on how to defeat her Sith Lord brother, right? I mean, come on.

 

Yeh, because in Traviss' world Sith=Jedi.

 

When the canon has shown us that Sith lords can take far more grievous injuries and sustain a stronger offence than the Jedi can simply because they call upon the unnatural side of the Force.

Yeh, because in Traviss' world Sith=Jedi.

 

When the canon has shown us that Sith lords can take far more grievous injuries and sustain a stronger offence than the Jedi can simply because they call upon the unnatural side of the Force.

 

I would say that is attributed to their use of anger and other base emotions to amplify themselves in battle. Who DOESN'T feel like they could rip phone books in half when royally pissed?

 

But anyway...Maybe Travis wanted to take the Jedi down a peg, but just wounded up committing the cardinal sin of writing- the Mary Sue Corallary enacted.

I would say that is attributed to their use of anger and other base emotions to amplify themselves in battle. Who DOESN'T feel like they could rip phone books in half when royally pissed?

 

But anyway...Maybe Travis wanted to take the Jedi down a peg, but just wounded up committing the cardinal sin of writing- the Mary Sue Corallary enacted.

 

The problem is that the Jedi never really needed to be taken down a peg. They're pretty much the punching bag of the Star Wars Galaxy as far as how often some form of genocide is committed against them or how disturbingly often some of their brightest stars go to the Dark Side.

The problem is that the Jedi never really needed to be taken down a peg. They're pretty much the punching bag of the Star Wars Galaxy as far as how often some form of genocide is committed against them or how disturbingly often some of their brightest stars go to the Dark Side.

 

We live in an age where more than half of people would vie to be the bad guys if given the chance in video games. You're surprised an author decided to take the piss out of the boy scouts of Star Wars in lieu of the morally ambiguous bucketheads?

I still prefer The Taung Mandos tbh rather then what it is today, it made the group as a whole more unique. But since its now just "follow this code and do this, yada yada be a mandalorian" its just become another standard group that anyone could join. I got no problem with today's mandalorians, but I just feel The Taung got the short end of the stick.

The problem is that the Jedi never really needed to be taken down a peg. They're pretty much the punching bag of the Star Wars Galaxy as far as how often some form of genocide is committed against them or how disturbingly often some of their brightest stars go to the Dark Side.

 

The Jedi sorely needed to be taken down a peg. they were becoming unstoppable godlike mary sues, wich ruins tenson and is IMO really stupid, when writers started takeing Vaders "The power to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the power of the force" shpeel litteraly is when the EU started going down hill.

 

Of corse instead of doing the right thing and writing the jedi realisticly in her novels Travis took the easy (wrong) way out and dicided to crate a facton that was even more rediculously mary sueish.

 

Non force users that are capable of going toe to toe with jedi and coming out on top should be specal and rare. Its what made charecters like General Grevious, Boba Fett, and Admiral Thrawn so awsome and memorable.

Edited March 25, 2012 by TheBentOne

The Jedi sorely needed to be taken down a peg. they were becoming unstoppable godlike mary sues, wich ruins tenson and is IMO really stupid, when writers started takeing Vaders "The power to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the power of the force" shpeel litteraly is when the EU started going down hill. .

 

But thats true, the force is more powerful then that. You can't limit something, that could do pretty much anything.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

To be quite honest, I wish Boba Died at The Sarlaac....

 

 

The Mando's should have ended at the Mando Wars. And should have stayed as small Merc and BH groups across the galaxy. Instead of having a G-canonically Dead Man making all of them unite and becoming Leader...

 

 

I like the idea of small Mando Groups instead of a Civilization and Army. IDK why..

But thats true, the force is more powerful then that. You can't limit something, that could do pretty much anything.

 

Yea. but being more powerful than the ability to destroy a planet is different than actually being able to destroy a planet with the force, if that was the case vader wouldve just reached out and crushed aldaraan with his bare hands.

 

the force may be more powerful but its also more subtile. things like being able levatate objects, controling the people that fire the giant lazors and cutting off a political rival mid speech by closing his windpipe are more useful and powerful than having a giant death machine blasting planets willy nilly.

 

at least that how i always saw it.

Edited March 25, 2012 by TheBentOne

To be quite honest, I wish Boba Died at The Sarlaac....

 

 

The Mando's should have ended at the Mando Wars. And should have stayed as small Merc and BH groups across the galaxy. Instead of having a G-canonically Dead Man making all of them unite and becoming Leader...

 

 

I like the idea of small Mando Groups instead of a Civilization and Army. IDK why..

 

Maintains that vagabond ****** imagery. But I guess groups grow and sometimes you need to establish a place to say hello and goodbye too.

Yea. but being more powerful than the ability to destroy a planet is different than actually being able to destroy a planet with the force, if that was the case vader wouldve just reached out and crushed aldaraan with his bare hands.

 

the force may be more powerful but its also more subtile. things like being able levatate objects, controling the people that fire the giant lazors and cutting off a political rival mid speech by closing his windpipe are more useful and powerful than having a giant death machine blasting planets willy nilly.

 

at least that how i always saw it.

 

Vader wasn't strong enough to do that, because of his injures. If he had reached his full potential, then no doubt he would be able by himself to destroy a planet in using the force given enough knowledge of the force. Palpatine could rip holes in the space-time continuum, pretty sure he could also destroy a planet with the force if he really wanted to.

 

Knowledge and training is the key here.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

Vader wasn't strong enough to do that, because of his injures. If he had reached his full potential, then no doubt he would be able by himself to destroy a planet in using the force given enough knowledge of the force. Palpatine could rip holes in the space-time continuum, pretty sure he could also destroy a planet with the force if he really wanted to.

 

Knowledge and training is the key here.

 

Im not saying its non canon. im saying its stupid.

Edited March 25, 2012 by TheBentOne

Im not saying its non cannon. im saying its stupid.

 

Its 1 n, canon.

Its 1 n, canon.

 

fixed my post

Edited March 25, 2012 by TheBentOne

 

the force may be more powerful but its also more subtile. things like being able levatate objects, controling the people that fire the giant lazors and cutting off a political rival mid speech by closing his windpipe are more useful and powerful than having a giant death machine blasting planets willy nilly.

 

at least that how i always saw it.

 

Size Matters not.

Size Matters not.

 

That's what she said.

Well, for those that don't know, there was an author by the name of Karen Traviss who came into Star Wars a while back. She had a personal obsession with Mandalorians and an agenda to make them the best thing since Lucas invented the lightsaber.

 

She made them better fighters pound for pound than Jedi.

She made them have weapons and armor that the Jedi couldn't match.

She gave them the best starfighters in Star Wars.

She pretty much Mary Sue'd the entire Mandalorian culture.

 

Thankfully... For the franchise... The Mandalorians, in canon, have been returned to what they should have been thanks to FotJ.

 

1. She made them better fighters pound for pound than Jedi.

 

In the series Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi we saw numerous clashes between Jedi and Mandalorians. The Mandos always had a numerical advantage and the Mandos always suffered losses. While we saw dozens of Mandalorian deaths we saw a grand total of one Jedi death despite numerous attempts and ambushes. The one Jedi death was an untrained, unarmed, Jedi apprentice who was all of fifteen years old. This categorically reduced the claims of Mandos down to being just that... Claims.

 

2. She made them have weapons and armor that the Jedi couldn't match.

 

Not only did we see lightsabers easily go around Beskar in FotJ, by aiming for the less armored joints and such, but we also saw them go through Beskar after several whacks. This is good because it makes Mando Iron decent but no longer nigh indestructible and a couple of whacks with a lightsaber still means a dead Mando.

 

However to sweeten the pot we were shown that Jedi can use the Force to shatter Beskar. (Shown by Jacen Solo and Luke Skywalker in Troy Denning's part of LotF) but they can also use techniques to pass right through it as was shown by an unarmed Barv in the ambush the Mandalorians sprang on them in another installment of Denning's run on LotF.)

 

3. They had the best Starfighters.

 

In FotJ it was revealed that the Republic now has fighters that are pound for pound better than the new Mando ships. As stated in the novel they were able " to go head to head with them and come out on top."

 

The Mando culture in Star Wars is now back to where it should be. They are not on par with Jedi or Sith but are the best of the best when it comes to mercenaries. They fetch top credits and they perform admirably. They are guns for hire that are more than worth hiring when one needs it.

 

All in all with the final nail in the coffin we once again have Star Wars back to the normal status quo!

Walsh is back. Us Mandalorian supporters are doomed.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Mirdthestrill

Walsh is back. Us Mandalorian supporters are doomed.

 

There's a difference between supporting Mandalorians and supporting Karen Traviss' idiocy. Don't group me in with the rest of you.

There's a difference between supporting Mandalorians and supporting Karen Traviss' idiocy. Don't group me in with the rest of you.

 

Yeh, I'm with Aximand.