Ya that was one of the times it was stated I am pretty sure it was not the last as Vergere and Lumiya also discussed it in length when considering him as a potential for a sith.

I think he was the only non-Skywalker/Solo to be considered as a potential Sith Lord.

I think he was the only non-Skywalker/Solo to be considered as a potential Sith Lord.

yep they actually have that on the Wiki and does speak to his Raw power his telekinetic feats and invention of the Shadow bomb aren't small either honestly and of course he was an accomplished pilot and saber duelist.

yep they actually have that on the Wiki and does speak to his Raw power his telekinetic feats and invention of the Shadow bomb aren't small either honestly and of course he was an accomplished pilot and saber duelist.

Yeah, it seems Kyp's strength lies more in telekinetic abilities (throwing a freighter). He does have a great deal of raw power, though.

Hmmm, it would indicate that Kyp possessed a similar level of power to Jacen prior to turning to the dark side. I think for now I'll place him as #8.

EDIT: I also think Windu should take #9 or #10. Not sure how he matches up to Plagueis but I'd say he's superior to Gethzerion who only managed to overcome ROTJ-Luke.

And didn't Aurbere mention something about him becoming more susceptible to Force lightning?

Hmmm, it would indicate that Kyp possessed a similar level of power to Jacen prior to turning to the dark side. I think for now I'll place him as #8.

 

EDIT: I also think Windu should take #9 or #10. Not sure how he matches up to Plagueis but I'd say he's superior to Gethzerion who only managed to overcome ROTJ-Luke.

 

And didn't Aurbere mention something about him becoming more susceptible to Force lightning?

That is true his encounter with sidious's lightning weakened his body considerably to it for a very long time but I still don't know that Rebellion Era Luke is quite getting the recognition he deserves if I had to put Windu and Rebellion Luke against each other I would actually lean in Luke's favor I believe I have stated that once before as I believe Luke the superior duelist and at that time would have been close enough in force knowledge and power to make it a pure saber fight. I am just unsure but do to unsureness I actually am wanting to agree with you and give Plagues the number 9 spot and windu the number 10 baring information about Jaina if Jaina comes out like I think she will again every one will be knocked down one peg.

Edit: I am also still thinking about Cade since he has shown quite possibly the greatest application of Control in history. Dark transfer of which he was the only one to ever innately learn it and it appears the only known practitioners come from his era.

#8 - Mace Windu

#9 - Count Dooku

#10 - Revan

That's my tought on how the list sould be finished. I don't have much time now to debate, but later I'll try to elaborate on my choices.

I think the final spots should be:

8. Jaina Solo

9. Kyp Durron

10. Mace Windu/Darth Plagueis

Jaina is pending information from Rayla, should she have any, though I concur that Jaina should be number 8. Kyp Durron's mastery of the basic applications of the Force, and pure raw power make him a shoe-in for number 9, bordering on 8. And Mace Windu, I feel, is more powerful than Plagueis, though only slightly. Which is why I placed them evenly at number 10, pending debate.

I think the final spots should be:

 

8. Jaina Solo

9. Kyp Durron

10. Mace Windu/Darth Plagueis

 

i agree with this but i think mace is more powerfull then plageis.

I think the final spots should be:

 

8. Jaina Solo

9. Kyp Durron

10. Mace Windu/Darth Plagueis

I agree with you Aurbere, Kyp Durron should make to the list. So, in my list, he takes #9.

Mace Windu vs Plagueis is a tough one to call. In terms of Force abilities none seems superior to the other...

But I think we should focus on #8 and I'd give that to Kyp, Jaina's Alter abilities just don't match up to his and I see no reason why she would choose to neglect them, being the 'Sword of the Jedi'. I only believe Jaina was passed up over Kyp because she was wiser, rather than more powerful.

I don't know much about Kyp, but he doesn't seem Grand Master material.

Mace Windu vs Plagueis is a tough one to call. In terms of Force abilities none seems superior to the other...

 

But I think we should focus on #8 and I'd give that to Kyp, Jaina's Alter abilities just don't match up to his and I see no reason why she would choose to neglect them, being the 'Sword of the Jedi'. I only believe Jaina was passed up over Kyp because she was wiser, rather than more powerful.

 

I don't know much about Kyp, but he doesn't seem Grand Master material.

Ya that I knew he was very clearly more powerful then the 2 that were chosen during Luke's exile in he is a Mavrick and you want the Mavrick on the council to give another view point and bring more reason to the Jedi but you don't let the Mavrick lead its just to dangerous and to much at stake.

Jaina is more powerful than Kyp, in my opinion. And I think people are giving opinions about her without bothering to research her powers. She used instinctive telekinesis from a very young age to help escape the Sith Reborn with her brother. She used force lightning as a very young Jedi during the Yuuzahn Vong war. She is one of the greatest pilots in the history of the galaxy thanks mostly to her force ability. She is fantastic at force healing and can use the force to clear toxins from her body. She can erase and alter memories. She learned Jedi Battle Meld and used it extensively, even training the ability to other Jedi. She was very adept at Jedi Mind Trick and force cloaking abilities. She was also excellent at Beast Control. She is solid at telekinesis, although probably not on the level of Kyp.

Her lightsaber skills are second only to her uncle. People are not giving her enough credit for defeating Caedus. In their first dual, she suffered a head wound but severed his arm, causing a draw. Luke was not really helping her. He was merely using the force to deceive Caedus into believing Jaina was Luke, to keep him from leaving. When she defeated him in their last dual, she was able to use her force cloaking power to surprise him and stab him in the stomach at the beginning of the battle. She later sliced his achiles tendon, which basically sealed his fate. He shut off his lightsaber right as she landed the killing blow to reach out to Tenel Ka. Anyway you slice it, she defeated her brother one-on-one. Any handicaps he had in the fight were caused by her (severed arm, stomach wound, leg wound). And his decision to accept his fate and reach out to Tenel Ka was only after she had worn him down to the point that he had no chance of survival. She has defeated groups of skilled warriors by herself, including Mandalorians and Sith. In declaring her Sword of the Jedi, Luke declares her to be the bravest Jedi ever.

I don't think she gets enough credit for her skill with a lightsaber. This is, after all, the bread and butter of any Jedi or Sith, and most battles come down to the lightsaber in the end. Her defensive force powers are such that she can negate the grand force displays people seem to think are the end-all, allowing her to defeat them with her blade. Honestly, she is one of the top five lightsaber duelists ever. That takes a tremendous amount of force power. I think people underestimate her because of her era and because they get blinded by the "grand displays" so-to-speak. I honestly put her right up with her brother based one what she has done.

Jaina is more powerful than Kyp, in my opinion. And I think people are giving opinions about her without bothering to research her powers. She used instinctive telekinesis from a very young age to help escape the Sith Reborn with her brother. She used force lightning as a very young Jedi during the Yuuzahn Vong war. She is one of the greatest pilots in the history of the galaxy thanks mostly to her force ability. She is fantastic at force healing and can use the force to clear toxins from her body. She can erase and alter memories. She learned Jedi Battle Meld and used it extensively, even training the ability to other Jedi. She was very adept at Jedi Mind Trick and force cloaking abilities. She was also excellent at Beast Control. She is solid at telekinesis, although probably not on the level of Kyp.

My main concern is that despite being a warrior, i.e. tailored towards offense, her mastery over Alter is lacking. Instead she seems more proficient in the more basic Control and Sense abilities of which she is far from unchallenged in skill.

With only one arm and one good leg, Caedus could no longer prevent his death. Even though he could have ended the duel with a draw, he would have died anyway, so Caedus stopped fighting, disengaging his lightsaber and reached out in the Force, giving his life to warn Tenel Ka.

So... yes, she only defeated him because he gave up the fight. As I said, Caedus is clearly more powerful than Jaina, so we cannot assume that she should make to the list just because he did.

How is her alter power lacking? She is proficient in both telekinesis and lightning. Using starships as projectiles and conjuring massive force storms is not the only way to show force power. Her lightsaber and piloting skill alone show a tremendous level of power on par with that sort of display. Comparing her to Kreia is a joke. Her lightsaber skill alone would massacre Kreia.

So... yes, she only defeated him because he gave up the fight. As I said, Caedus is clearly more powerful than Jaina, so we cannot assume that she should make to the list just because he did.

So you bolded one phrase, but completely ignored the words right before and right after...

With only one arm and one good leg, Caedus could no longer prevent his death. Even though he could have ended the duel with a draw, he would have died anyway, so Caedus stopped fighting, disengaging his lightsaber and reached out in the Force, giving his life to warn Tenel Ka.

Jaina defeated him. At best, he could have drawn with her, killing them both.

Kyp Durron though is more than just proficient, he's exceptional. And while Kreia is clearly outclassed in terms of lightsaber combat she has shown an aptitude for beast control, and impressive displays of Force healing, cloak and the ability to erase the minds of others. All I'm saying is that these feats are far from original, and she does not surpass others in their perfomance. Plagueis' abilities in Control and Sense also arguably outrank hers, as he could manipulate life itself.

If Kreia had Jaina's lightsaber ability, she would be on the list no question. She doesn't. That's the point. And Jaina would murder Plagueis. Her lightsaber abilities are in another league. It is arguable that she is as good with a lightsaber as Sideous ever was and may be second ever to Luke in lightsaber combat. She was so good in her first dual with Caedus that Caedus thought he was fighting his uncle. Honestly, since when did being a powerful Jedi mean lightning hands and throwing freighters with your mind? Jaina is almost the epitome of what a Jedi should be. She uses alter abilities when needed but not to show off. She is more than proficient in telekinesis and can use force lighting. She has many other advanced abilities such as beast control, and her beast control is better than Kreia's. She has controlled several large beasts at once. Her healing abilities are also well beyond Kreia's. Her lightsaber abilities alone classify her as one of the strongest force users ever. She is the second-best lightsaber practitioner in the greatest era of lightsaber combat. And she has resisted the dark side in a way that Kyp Durron and her brother could not.

It's sort of like we are arguing baseball, and all you want to talk about are home runs. Sammy Sosa hit more home runs than Ted Williams, but Ted Williams was a better baseball player.

I think that everyone here is ignoring one key factor, and it is a biggie in the Kyp vs. Jaina: Moral fortitude. Kyp loses big time there, actually succumbing to the dark side and destroying several worlds. Jaina on the other hand, had the Moral strength to kill her own brother after he turned.

To be fair, dark side power is power. This isn't about moral fortitude. But her resistance to the dark side is further proof of her force power insomuch as it takes great connection with the light and great control to resist the dark side when you come into contact with it like she has. Her ability to control herself has kept her from making the sort of mistakes that got her brother killed and kept her alive and put her on top in countless encounters with some of the most powerful force users in the post-ROTJ era, including Caedus, who is already on this list.

So... yes, she only defeated him because he gave up the fight. As I said, Caedus is clearly more powerful than Jaina, so we cannot assume that she should make to the list just because he did.

Also, I didn't say she was more powerful than her brother. I said she is right up there with her brother. And she did defeat him, however you want to couch it.

Also, there are sooooo many people you have left off the table: Revan, Bastila, Bane, Starkiller, Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, The Hero of Tython, Maul, The Guardian of Forever, Quigon, Aayla Secura... The list goes on and on.

Starkiller is Galen Marek. He is on the list. Revan has been discussed but his feats that we have seen don't put him up there with the others on this list. Close perhaps, but not quite. Bastilla wasn't that exceptional. She had battle meditation but was otherwise nowhere near as powerful as Revan or others of the era. Exar Kun has been mentioned at length and is in the discussion. Naga Sadow has discussed, but there is little content to go by that would put them on this list. Similarly, Marka Ragnos is one of my favorite characters, but we have no content where he was actually alive, which makes it hard to know how powerful he really was, although I believe there is a quote somewhere saying he is "among the most powerful Jedi and Sith ever." Perhaps when more has been written about that era, we can add them to the list. The Hero of Tython is equally difficult to evaluate because his/her story isn't even settled yet. Maul was simply not powerful enough to come close to a Top 10 list. Same with Qui-gon and Aayla Secura. Not even sure what to say about the Guardian of Forever. You're talking about the monster in a couple of the comic books? Destroyed by Luke and friends in 0 ABY? Hardly belongs on a list like this.

Starkiller is Galen Marek. He is on the list. Revan has been discussed but his feats that we have seen don't put him up there with the others on this list. Close perhaps, but not quite. Bastilla wasn't that exceptional. She had battle meditation but was otherwise nowhere near as powerful as Revan or others of the era. Exar Kun has been mentioned at length and is in the discussion. Naga Sadow has discussed, but there is little content to go by that would put them on this list. Similarly, Marka Ragnos is one of my favorite characters, but we have no content where he was actually alive, which makes it hard to know how powerful he really was, although I believe there is a quote somewhere saying he is "among the most powerful Jedi and Sith ever." Perhaps when more has been written about that era, we can add them to the list. The Hero of Tython is equally difficult to evaluate because his/her story isn't even settled yet. Maul was simply not powerful enough to come close to a Top 10 list. Same with Qui-gon and Aayla Secura. Not even sure what to say about the Guardian of Forever. You're talking about the monster in a couple of the comic books? Destroyed by Luke and friends in 0 ABY? Hardly belongs on a list like this.

See the issue with things like "one of the most powerful jedi/sith ever" is its not really talking top 10 its talking of the Millions possibly Billions maybe even Trillions of Jedi/sith over the millennia he was probably in the top 100 and when you talk about millions and billions making top 100 is really impressive.

If Kreia had Jaina's lightsaber ability, she would be on the list no question. She doesn't. That's the point. And Jaina would murder Plagueis. Her lightsaber abilities are in another league. It is arguable that she is as good with a lightsaber as Sideous ever was and may be second ever to Luke in lightsaber combat. She was so good in her first dual with Caedus that Caedus thought he was fighting his uncle. Honestly, since when did being a powerful Jedi mean lightning hands and throwing freighters with your mind? Jaina is almost the epitome of what a Jedi should be. She uses alter abilities when needed but not to show off. She is more than proficient in telekinesis and can use force lighting. She has many other advanced abilities such as beast control, and her beast control is better than Kreia's. She has controlled several large beasts at once. Her healing abilities are also well beyond Kreia's. Her lightsaber abilities alone classify her as one of the strongest force users ever. She is the second-best lightsaber practitioner in the greatest era of lightsaber combat. And she has resisted the dark side in a way that Kyp Durron and her brother could not.

 

It's sort of like we are arguing baseball, and all you want to talk about are home runs. Sammy Sosa hit more home runs than Ted Williams, but Ted Williams was a better baseball player.

General Grievous alone is evidence of this, despite having no Force ability to speak of he is capable of wielding lightsabers in a highly proficient manner making him able to take on some of the greatest duelists of his age and win. So while it certainly should be take into account, it is secondary to displays of the Force.

And I can't comment on Jaina's use of Force healing, but Kreia has brought people back from the brink of death. I don't think Jaina has accomplished that.

And finally we should remember that not being an exceptionally skilled lightsaber duelist does not infer lesser abilities to a superior combatant. The Sith Emperor for example is immensely powerful and yet his skill with the lightsaber is lacking to say the least.

EDIT: I get that Jaina is very much the Jedi Knight who favors a lightsaber over flashy powers. But that hasn't stopped the likes of Mace Windu from bringing their strength in the Force to bear.