So we begin ops next week as a guild and I have been hearing conflicting things. My guild leader is insisting on 2 tanks for our 8 man but I have been hearing 8 man only needs one. I'm not quite sure what to do as he wants me to gear as a tank MS and DPS OS even though I am the "offtank".

 

Any of you experienced players have any advice? If there are 2 tanks needed on some fights and not others should I play a hybrid tank/dps spec? Should I off tank in dps spec with tank gear or tank spec with dps gear for fights I don't tank?

So we begin ops next week as a guild and I have been hearing conflicting things. My guild leader is insisting on 2 tanks for our 8 man but I have been hearing 8 man only needs one. I'm not quite sure what to do as he wants me to gear as a tank MS and DPS OS even though I am the "offtank".

 

Any of you experienced players have any advice? If there are 2 tanks needed on some fights and not others should I play a hybrid tank/dps spec? Should I off tank in dps spec with tank gear or tank spec with dps gear for fights I don't tank?

 

 

i think it all depends on the fight too. sometimes you'll need 1 tank in each group only. sometimes you'll need a main tank and off tank for the adds. it all depends on the fight.

You only need 1 tank for any 8-man stuff currently.

1 tank for all of the fights.

 

a second tank for nightmare Jarg and Sorno depending on gear and the classes you have, may help and make the fight easy mode. Although normal and hard don't do enough damage to warrant it.

 

so out of the 30 "different" fights 1 fight might have a second tank be useful.

 

Its the same for 16 man also.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Eroex

Guess first thing to say is pretty well know all fights are DPS race. So more tanks less DPS.

 

You need 1 MT but you do need someone that can take aggro and stay alive for a bit a couple of places.

 

1. Turret Breaks on EV

2. Puzzle EV

3. 2 Bounty Hunters Palace

4. Droid with Fire Palace

 

We are thinking of using a 2nd tank on Soa HM to have him break lighting balls.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Rejectoo

I would still take 2 tanks and here's why: some fights have adds that might hit your 1 tank hard enough early on (first time through/pre-geared) that healers get behind. Other fights divide your group up into your 2 4 man teams - you'll want a healer and someone that CAN tank in each group. Finally, hardmode operations will require 2 full tanks and you'll want them geared from normal mode to be useful in hard. The dps loss from taking a second tank really won't matter much in normal mode, but the geared tank gained by doing so will be necessary for further progression. So while that second tank may not feel very tank like for most encounters on normal mode, he certainly will be needed in hard. If your guild has absolutely no intrest in hardmode operations, by all means, take/gear 1 tank.

You need 1 MT but you do need someone that can take aggro and stay alive for a bit a couple of places.

 

1. Turret Breaks on EV

2. Puzzle EV

3. 2 Bounty Hunters Palace

4. Droid with Fire Palace

 

We are thinking of using a 2nd tank on Soa HM to have him break lighting balls.

 

This ^^^, though we often run two tank operations because we ended up with more tanks than we really need for the 8 person content but we're still running some people through the HM FPs. Bioware did not do a good job here seeing how class progression was going to work out. This could be dealt with by:

 

1) Changing the operations to legitimately need two tanks (traditional MMO approach).

2) Make respeccing less of a chore so that we can store a build even if we have to pay to switch between them.

3) Make dual spec part of the game.

We are thinking of using a 2nd tank on Soa HM to have him break lighting balls.

 

There is zero reason to do so, the DPS loss isn't worth it at all.

 

In P3 avoid the balls while the boss is damageable, after hes immune, break the lightning balls with the people targeted, then get back on the mind traps.

 

~10k damage to each person is easily healable

 

1. Turret Breaks on EV

2. Puzzle EV

3. 2 Bounty Hunters Palace

4. Droid with Fire Palace

 

1. not needed

2. not needed just kite them

3. only on nightmare (maybe)

4. not needed easily healable the boss doesn't do enough damage to the tank to warrant it.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Eroex

We were doing EV this past weekend and the puzzle fight was much more difficult than it was previously with the update. Even with CCing, with mid to bad luck you will have 4-5 bugs attacking your party by the fourth round and the incoming damage is insane so not sure how you would pull this off with no 2nd tank especially in nightmare mode.

We were doing EV this past weekend and the puzzle fight was much more difficult than it was previously with the update. Even with CCing, with mid to bad luck you will have 4-5 bugs attacking your party by the fourth round and the incoming damage is insane so not sure how you would pull this off with no 2nd tank especially in nightmare mode.

 

How are people having problems with the puzzle boss?

 

DPS kite them, them stun them, slow them, taunt kite them with a powertech, assassin, or juggernaut DPS.

 

i assume you are talking about the aklays because if you are having problems with the 10k life guys that's a DPS "learn to push their buttons" situation

 

Also the colors are set, just google what direction to turn them. You should know what direction and how many times, before the start of the fight for each row.

 

Im pretty sure this is the order

 

Blue, Green, Red, Purple, White, Yellow

 

so if its on red and you need blue you turn it, twice to the left. If its on white and you need green you turn it 3 times ether direction.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Eroex

i think it all depends on the fight too. sometimes you'll need 1 tank in each group only. sometimes you'll need a main tank and off tank for the adds. it all depends on the fight.

 

Rofl? I love how this guy, who obviously doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, gives this vague, useless answer. Then the guy right after him completely (and correctly) contradicts him.

1. not needed

2. not needed just kite them

3. only on nightmare (maybe)

4. not needed easily healable the boss doesn't do enough damage to the tank to warrant it.

 

I didn't read his post as saying you needed a second tank, just that it useful to have someone who wouldn't instantly splatter be able and ready to grab aggro for a few seconds.

I didn't read his post as saying you needed a second tank, just that it useful to have someone who wouldn't instantly splatter be able and ready to grab aggro for a few seconds.

 

I read it that way also, any one can do the task, it doesnt matter if its a powertech or a sniper, healer or DPS. Every class has a defensive cooldown, even then nothing in those fights do enough damage that it should matter that much.

Well I'm not sure what one of the guys in here was talking about not needing a 2nd person that can hold aggro and take some hits...

 

My guild has cleared 5/5 KP Nightmare and we are currently 4/5 EV Nightmare. We run 1 MT and we have a DPS Powertech. Most fights only need 1 tank, but currently the fights in the game where it is advisable to have 2 tanks (or our setup with 1 real tank and 1 tank-type class in a DPS spec) are...

 

Jarg and Sorno Nightmare

- I don't know if I would even try this without 2 tanks.

 

EV Puzzle

- Probably doable without 2 tanks, but it makes it a heck of a lot easier.

 

G4-B3

- If you have a lot of ranged dps and can afford to put both of your healers on the ground, then you may be able to do this with one tank. But, healing becomes unmanageable at a 10 stack of armor debuff single healing the bottom, which is how my guild does it (I heal the bottom).

You could do 8m Ops w/ only 1 tank. No doubt.

 

But we do it w/ 2 tanks. One is just designated a off-tank and helps w/ all the little things having 2 tanks makes easier (as listed in this thread). For us, having an off-tank has helped significantly more than extra dps.

Edited January 30, 2012 by DefMike

Its true that everyone has a defense skill, but having someone with a taunt and decent survivability is what I was getting at. Not only are there specific pieces that are much easier with this setup (and the DPS drop is minimal to non-existent) but there are lots of bugs that can put everyone's time at risk.

There is zero reason to do so, the DPS loss isn't worth it at all.

 

In P3 avoid the balls while the boss is damageable, after hes immune, break the lightning balls with the people targeted, then get back on the mind traps.

 

~10k damage to each person is easily healable

 

 

 

1. not needed

2. not needed just kite them

3. only on nightmare (maybe)

4. not needed easily healable the boss doesn't do enough damage to the tank to warrant it.

 

There is zero Combat logs to even begin to make such a statement, and i personally think all the easy kills we raiders are getting are going to be nerfed i suspect bioware using alot more spike damage then enrage timers in the near future

Well I currently play a vanguard and have fallen in love with assault spec. So maybe I can see if I can dps and switch to ion cell if needed on some fights. Edited January 30, 2012 by Arngrim

There is zero Combat logs to even begin to make such a statement, and i personally think all the easy kills we raiders are getting are going to be nerfed i suspect bioware using alot more spike damage then enrage timers in the near future

 

How so?

 

My healers and tank tell me that the damage is easily healable. Tanks clearly do far less DPS than DPS do if they did about the same they wouldn't lose aggro and wouldn't need modifiers on their tanking abilities. Probably wouldn't need DPS players for that matter.

 

 

So why do I need a combat log to know that my tank isn't in danger and know that Tanks do far less damage than DPS? Even in Tionese, Columi, and worse gear we had no issues.

 

Maybe my healers are that good but I doubt that is the case(they are good but better than every one on the planet? no). I think the content is that easy.

 

I guess you could indeed make the fight harder on yourself for no reason and do it with a second tank, I didn't say you cant do the fight because you wont have the DPS to do it with a second tank.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Eroex

There is zero Combat logs to even begin to make such a statement, and i personally think all the easy kills we raiders are getting are going to be nerfed i suspect bioware using alot more spike damage then enrage timers in the near future

 

Statement: You don't need combat logs to read a 4.5k and a 5.5k above your head, or look at your bar and go "o hey! I lost 10k hp by sprinting through the ball (provided you're not bad and only took a single tick). Also 10k dmg on people is easily healed through, especially in phase 3.

 

Disagreement: You have no idea what Bioware is going to do from now on. Enrage timers are simple, cheap, and people don't complain too much about them existing, just "blah blah enrage timer too short werez meh fre epix!"

 

Mockery: Now that I think about it, I think bioware could find a way to bug an enrage timer out.

You guys know you can't taunt balls anymore right?.... lol....

There is zero reason to do so, the DPS loss isn't worth it at all.

 

In P3 avoid the balls while the boss is damageable, after hes immune, break the lightning balls with the people targeted, then get back on the mind traps.

 

~10k damage to each person is easily healable

 

 

Eroex

 

In the 2nd phase we had like 5 balls up at one time seems like. This was making a lot of healing work on the healers and lots of damage the tank idea came in has me being a Shadow could force speed around and I could take the damage having 22k HP vs a DPS or healer. The only part of Soa that is a DPS race is the final phase with the pylons being a shadow that phase is well with in my finisher 30%

 

Has for that list it was not an advocate for a 2nd tank it was just saying that it is good to have someone that can take some damage and taunt.

 

The reason the robot needs a few secs is the armor debuff gets high it needs to drop off before tank can get back on them normally with a stack of 8 on me a trooper dps will taught and take the aggro for the 6 to 8 secs for the debuff to go off then I taunt it back.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Rejectoo

Well I'm not sure what one of the guys in here was talking about not needing a 2nd person that can hold aggro and take some hits...

 

My guild has cleared 5/5 KP Nightmare and we are currently 4/5 EV Nightmare. We run 1 MT and we have a DPS Powertech. Most fights only need 1 tank, but currently the fights in the game where it is advisable to have 2 tanks (or our setup with 1 real tank and 1 tank-type class in a DPS spec) are...

 

Jarg and Sorno Nightmare

- I don't know if I would even try this without 2 tanks.

 

EV Puzzle

- Probably doable without 2 tanks, but it makes it a heck of a lot easier.

 

G4-B3

- If you have a lot of ranged dps and can afford to put both of your healers on the ground, then you may be able to do this with one tank. But, healing becomes unmanageable at a 10 stack of armor debuff single healing the bottom, which is how my guild does it (I heal the bottom).

 

We're a melee heavy group and we only use one tank and two healers on G4-B3. On both 8M Nightmare and 16M Hardmode we have a Mercenary Healer stay on the tank full time and one (or two in 16M) healers focus on the raid.

 

Also, if you have a healer stand on the center balcony right at the edge they can reach almost every player.

 

We haven't even used a second tank for the bounty hunters in KP either, in fact, the only time we even have someone else with threat is if the tank gets mind trapped on Soa, we have a jugg or Powertech dps taunt till he's out.

Eroex

 

In the 2nd phase we had like 5 balls up at one time seems like. This was making a lot of healing work on the healers and lots of damage the tank idea came in has me being a Shadow could force speed around and I could take the damage having 22k HP vs a DPS or healer. The only part of Soa that is a DPS race is the final phase with the pylons being a shadow that phase is well with in my finisher 30%

 

Has for that list it was not an advocate for a 2nd tank it was just saying that it is good to have someone that can take some damage and taunt.

 

The reason the robot needs a few secs is the armor debuff gets high it needs to drop off before tank can get back on them normally with a stack of 8 on me a trooper dps will taught and take the aggro for the 6 to 8 secs for the debuff to go off then I taunt it back.

 

Well that the problem you were having, you had 5 lighting balls up at the same time, lol

 

Pop the lighting balls as they come out, they have pretty long cooldown before the next set comes out. What I read there is you need a second tank to cover your poor play and strategy? Alliteratively you are trying to justify your unneeded raid spot... and I hate people like that. The tank damage in the fight isn't that high ether. So your healers should easily be able to keep the tank up as well as the lighting orb damage.

 

Here's a hint (have people spec biochem or use regular medpacks if they aren't)

 

 

Also even with 100% reduction on armor the robot boss doesn't hit hard enough for the damage to matter. we solo tanked it on nightmare mode and our healers were concerned with it before, I said, "lets give it a shot and I'll respec if I need to", we finished the fight and the healers were like "that was it?". So no you don't need a second tank or someone to take the aggro for a second. If you want to waste your time with that, fine be my guest.

 

Just use the left and right vents, ignore the middle save/stack all your cooldowns for the part where the boss takes extra damage. That boss is a 1 shot joke.

 

Have 3 DPS set up the boss for that part, don't even have the 3 DPS move unless its for the part where you burn him down. The armor debuff vent is the most important. The boss should be under the damage debuff vent just long enough to get the damage buff off him them moved back to the other vent.

We're a melee heavy group and we only use one tank and two healers on G4-B3. On both 8M Nightmare and 16M Hardmode we have a Mercenary Healer stay on the tank full time and one (or two in 16M) healers focus on the raid.

 

Also, if you have a healer stand on the center balcony right at the edge they can reach almost every player.

 

We haven't even used a second tank for the bounty hunters in KP either, in fact, the only time we even have someone else with threat is if the tank gets mind trapped on Soa, we have a jugg or Powertech dps taunt till he's out.

 

This man speaks the truth