dipstik Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 Darth_Dreselus: the numbers i gave were for shadows, VG and juggs get nothing from extra endurance... other than a buff. dont have numbers yet for 2.4 stuff. if u want to help i need a few things. the light armor rating provided by hands and chest, as well as the heavy, and start posting some logs of the new HMs. i want armor ratings pre stance buffs, so turn off your stance. u might eb able to get the value hovering over the item, and it might change when u put the item on. basically the hand, feet, belt and bracer will have the low value, while head, chest and legs will have the high, so total, pre buff will be: 3*high+4*low. for previous tiers i got: Level light heavy 69 2894 5466 72 2999 5666 75 3107 5869 extrapolating i expect: Level light heavy 78 3213 6070.26 i also need the new stats on both the commendation 78 gear and the stuff from tokens. how much endurance/mainstat for armorings enduance/mainstat/secondary for mods endurance/secondary/tertiary for enhancements lastly, i want info for all the new tanking relics, and the new healy relic (which will become useless for shadows in 2.5) once i have all this is can dive in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzberry Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Below are the stats relating to Juggernaut gear: Armor in major slots: 1103 Armor in minor slots: 689 Guardian 34 Armoring: 99 Endurance / 94 Strength Elusive Mod 34: 82 Strength / 62 Endurance / 69 Defense Elusive Mod 34B: 69 Strength / 88 Endurance / 55 Defense Resilient Mod 34: 82 Strength / 62 Endurance / 69 Absorb Resilient Mod 34B: 69 Strength / 88 Endurance / 55 Absorb Vigilant 34: 94 Endurance / 88 Shield / 22 Defense Steadfast 34: 94 Endurance / 88 Shield / 22 Absorb Bastion 34: 76 Endurance / 94 Shield / 39 Defense Bulwark 34: 76 Endurance / 94 Shield / 39 Absorb Dread Forged Relic of the Shrouded Crusader: 115 Endurance / 39 Power / Use: 320 Shield and Absorb for 20s Dread Forged Relic of the Fortunate Redoubt: 115 Endurance / 39 Defense / Proc: Incoming attacks have a 30% chance to grant 625 Defense for 6s. Cooldown: 20s Dread Forged Relic of Shield Amplification: 115 Endurance / 39 Power / Proc: Shielding an incoming attack grants 625 Absorb rating for 6s. Cooldown: 20s Dread Forged Relic of Imperiling Serenity: 115 Endurance / 39 Power / Use: 490 Defense for 20s Dread Forged Relic of Reactive Warding: 115 Endurance / 39 Power / Proc: Incoming attacks have a 30% chance to grant an Absorb Shield that protects the user from 1360 damage for 6s. Cooldown: 40s New relic is in bold. Note the internal cooldown is 40s, not 20s like the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzberry Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Assassin armor: Major slot: 526 armor Minor slot: 329 armor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 great work! ill get started on some 2.4 builds first thing i noticed.: 4*329+3*526=2894, same as 69 gear... ask mr robot shows light hands as 341 armor rating. something is fishy. heavy came out to 6065, which is close to my extrapolated guess of 6070. so i can work on their numbers first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 using budget of 2606 plus 70 from stim gives 2676 budget, where 940 is shield. i used 2.5 info for shadows (doesnt change weights, but i wanted to see where those changes would put them): SNV shadow jugg VG d 586 1053 781 s 940 940 1130 a 1150 683 765 pre armor squish 0.4965 0.6267 0.5921 post armor squish 0.2513 0.3086 0.2668 post heals@6k (2.5) 1508 1729 1601 spike 0.0375 0.0391 0.03358 relic data for snv: shadow: weighted relic base diff =proc dmg def proc 0.2460 0.2344 0.2501 0.0052 6170 abs proc 0.2471 0.2355 0.2513 0.0041 7875 shd use 0.2483 0.2334 0.2513 0.0030 10882 use def 0.2491 0.2383 0.2513 0.0022 14982 proc dmg 32.38095238 jugg: weighted relic base diff =proc dmg def proc 0.3037 0.2927 0.3075 0.0050 6526 abs proc 0.3047 0.2937 0.3086 0.0039 8329 shd use 0.3062 0.2938 0.3086 0.0025 13070 use def 0.3066 0.2964 0.3086 0.0020 15846 dmg proc 32.38095238 VG: weighted relic base diff =proc dmg def proc 0.2622 0.2519 0.2658 0.0046 6986 abs proc 0.2632 0.2529 0.2668 0.0036 8916 shd use 0.2641 0.2505 0.2668 0.0027 11891 use def 0.2649 0.2553 0.2668 0.0019 16964 dmg proc 32.3810 looks like def proc and new damage absorb proc are BiS, unless damage is around 8k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzberry Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Oh, I moused over an Arkanian item on the vendor by accident when I gave the light armor values. Whoops Apparently the new 78 armorings are adaptive, so I'm not sure what the value actually is; it just shows me the heavy rating for my character. An Assassin will need to provide them for you. Re: the Relics. Did you calculate both the Abs proc and the new damage absorb proc? I'm not sure which is which in the list you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzberry Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Oh, pulling out Jaesa lets me see the light values. Cool. Major slot: 584 Minor slot: 365 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 3212 for light it looks like... i think i used 3210 in these calcs, wont change much. i will change for 2.4 thread prolly, after i figure out the gear on AMR./.. if they update. ever sicne 1.7 or whatever, its been an open project, but there are bugs here and there i think, so i dont trust all attribute calcs 100%. i should prolly start filing bug reports, or learn how to code to submit fixes. anyway... the new relic is calced on the bottom row for each spec... where is says 32 point whatever. i calced the dps required for each other relic to do better than the new proc. i just call it dmg proc not to confuse with abs proc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THoK-Zeus Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 For the Relics: While the Healing Relic should still be better number wise, the new absorb relic has two advantages: Practically no "overhealing" and pre-damage migation. As long as there's no nim df/dp with big increased tank damage it will be bis with fortunate redoubt in my opinion. From a quick look over my logs for the new hardmodes, damage on tanks seems to be about the same range as nim sv/tfb. Notable exception: first boss in df is over 6k dps on tanks as there's practically no raid damage and its a 100% static boss fight (and the Boss is 100% m/r except for the i/e dot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzberry Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Thok, how did you determine 6k dtps on Nefra? Going through my logs, I never really broke 2k dtps over the duration of the fight. Or are you specifically looking at worst-case burst dtps with no mitigation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THoK-Zeus Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Thok, how did you determine 6k dtps on Nefra? Going through my logs, I never really broke 2k dtps over the duration of the fight. Or are you specifically looking at worst-case burst dtps with no mitigation? I did count back the 2k dtps from my log to the orginal value the Boss actually would have dealt to me when i would have had zero migation. In current stat sin tanks migate ~72% of the m/r damage (actually i just took the value out of my tfb nim calculation ) so 2k dtps from the log are over 6k dtps if you don't migate anything. These non migation values are important for example for all the different relic calculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzberry Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Ahhhh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah, I'm seeing roughly 5900-6100 dtps now when I run that calculation. One thing I haven't really been able to figure out is how do you determine if an attack is M/R vs F/T? When I look at Torparse and Parsec, they really only break stuff down into incoming damage type (Kinetic, Energy, Internal and Elemental) but they don't specify which type of attack it was (which is presumably a limitation of the combat logging). The only somewhat reliable way I could really tell the difference was seeing which attacks I could sometimes avoid. Is there an easier method? Edited October 3, 2013 by Razzberry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THoK-Zeus Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Ahhhh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah, I'm seeing roughly 5900-6100 dtps now when I run that calculation. One thing I haven't really been able to figure out is how do you determine if an attack is M/R vs F/T? When I look at Torparse and Parsec, they really only break stuff down into incoming damage type (Kinetic, Energy, Internal and Elemental) but they don't specify which type of attack it was (which is presumably a limitation of the combat logging). The only somewhat reliable way I could really tell the difference was seeing which attacks I could sometimes avoid. Is there an easier method? No, there's no easier method (atleast i don't know another one) and therefore you need a large number of logs to be sure that you can determine the right attack type. In the parsec thread i posted alll the different attack types of the whole tfb nim Operation (they should be more or less correct). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzberry Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I put up a new thread so we can start collecting data about the new Ops as well: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6808927#post6808927 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 here are updated numbers and tfb info. i ended up using 1600 absorb for force scream/blade barrier. i assumed 280 power from augments, 1830 force power from main and offhand and multiplied by 1.05 to get 2215, ansd armorings and mods give 984+1128 mainstat, with 11% buff to mainstat gives 2788 mainstat. this gives bonus healing of 767, which gives barrier of 1591 every 12 seconds. i rounded up to 1600. this is for 2.5 shadows, although the mitigation allocation is for current 78 gear. still need damage weights for DF,DP HM. SNV: D weapon 0.7793 D force 0.207 D internal 0.0137 shadow jugg VG d 586 1053 781 s 940 940 1130 a 1150 683 765 pre armor squish 0.4965 0.6267 0.5921 post armor squish 0.2513 0.3086 0.2620 post heals@6k (2.5) 1508 1623 1572 spike 0.03754 0.03913 0.03253 TFB D weapon 0.575044534 D force 0.342310329 D internal 0.082645137 shadow jugg VG d 70 741 140 s 1179 940 1469 a 1427 995 1066 pre armor squish 0.49021 0.61311 0.57304 post armor squish 0.29405 0.35194 0.30527 post heals@6k (2.5) 1764 1978 1832 spike 0.04170 0.04431 0.04231 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Here's an updated everything. i forgot the armor rating for VG on SnV first time around, and this has updated light armor info and force scream barrier info: SNV: D weapon 0.7793 D force 0.207 D internal 0.0137 shadow jugg VG d 586 1114 781 s 940 940 1130 a 1150 622 765 pre armor squish 0.4965 0.5935 0.5921 post armor squish 0.2513 0.2928 0.2620 post heals@6k (2.5) 1508 1623 1572 spike 0.03754 0.0424 0.03253 SnV Relic info: shadow: weighted relic base diff =proc dmg def proc 0.2460 0.2344 0.2501 0.0052 6170 abs proc 0.2471 0.2355 0.2513 0.0041 7875 shd use 0.2483 0.2334 0.2513 0.0030 10882 use def 0.2491 0.2383 0.2513 0.0022 14982 proc dmg 32.38095238 jugg: weighted relic base diff def proc 0.3037 0.2927 0.3075 0.0050 6526 abs proc 0.3047 0.2937 0.3086 0.0039 8329 shd use 0.3062 0.2938 0.3086 0.0025 13070 use def 0.3066 0.2964 0.3086 0.0020 15846 dmg proc 32.38095238 VG: weighted relic base diff =proc dmg def proc 0.2575 0.2474 0.2610 0.0045 7119 abs proc 0.2585 0.2484 0.2620 0.0036 9085 shd use 0.2594 0.2460 0.2620 0.0027 12116 use def 0.2602 0.2508 0.2620 0.0019 17285 dmg proc 32.3810 ----------------------------------------- TFB D weapon 0.575044534 D force 0.342310329 D internal 0.082645137 shadow jugg VG d 70 784 140 s 1179 940 1469 a 1427 952 1066 pre armor squish 0.49021 0.61311 0.57304 post armor squish 0.29405 0.35194 0.30527 post heals@6k (2.5) 1764 1978 1832 spike 0.04170 0.04431 0.04231 TFB relic info: shadows: weighted relic base diff def proc 0.2893 0.2788 0.2930 0.0047 6826 abs proc 0.2901 0.2791 0.2940 0.0039 8285 shd use 0.2912 0.2767 0.2940 0.0029 11213 use def 0.2921 0.2823 0.2940 0.0020 16574 proc dmg 32.38095238 jugg: weighted relic base diff def proc 0.3478 0.3385 0.3510 0.0042 7743 abs proc 0.3487 0.3394 0.3519 0.0033 9882 shd use 0.3495 0.3376 0.3519 0.0024 13558 use def 0.3502 0.3416 0.3519 0.0017 18801 proc dmg 32.38095238 VG: weighted relic base diff =proc dmg def proc 0.3009 0.2913 0.3043 0.0044 7413 abs proc 0.3018 0.2921 0.3053 0.0034 9460 shd use 0.3027 0.2900 0.3053 0.0025 12748 use def 0.3035 0.2945 0.3053 0.0018 17998 proc dmg 32.3810 Edited October 6, 2013 by dipstik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzberry Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I tossed up a new thread to see if we can figure out the new damage ratios: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6808910 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzberry Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Dipstik, just to clarify, in your initial post when you wrote that Juggernauts gain 3.13E-5*dps mitigation per second per point of mitigation, that was Damage Taken per Second, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipstik Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 Dipstik, just to clarify, in your initial post when you wrote that Juggernauts gain 3.13E-5*dps mitigation per second per point of mitigation, that was Damage Taken per Second, right? yeah, pre-mitigation snv hm weighted damage. guess i should find those weights for tfb and df and dp and find a optimization point or soemthing... the slope should be differnt in 78 you get less per point. that was the average slope between 2000 and 2600 i think. should use 2400 to 2800 average in next batch of numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel_Guy Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Are there any comments vs. the new reactive warding relic pvp version? I noticed it has a 20+ static absorption rating while the dread forged one does not. Dread forged relic of Reactive Warding: 115 endurance 39 power Incoming attacks have a 30% chance to grant and Absorb shield that protects the user from 1360 damage for 6 seconds. This effect can only trigger once every 40 seconds. Vs. Conqueror Relic of Reactive Warding 83 endurance 109 expertise 20 absorption The effect is the same, but it shields for 1012 every 40 seconds. Oddly enough the higher pvp tier (Obroan) version goes back to static power +21 and 88 endurance, but the same 1360 absorption shield as the PVE version. The only reason I point this out is because the Defense proc was considered BIS because of its static defense rating in addition to the proc of the relic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THoK-Zeus Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) @Rebel_Guy: Did a quick calculation and it would just become viable when tanks would get more then ~8k dps. So it's not valuable for current Content, but the difference is not that big actually. Edited October 4, 2013 by THoK-Zeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kordi Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The numbers in 1-t post is relevant for the current version, with 78 lvl gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THoK-Zeus Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The numbers in 1-t post is relevant for the current version, with 78 lvl gear? No, there's not enough data so far to determine current attack type percentages. From a very general looking over my data the values of force/tech e/k will be slightly higher then on sv hm, so absorb and shield rating might be slighty more viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_REDRUM_ Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I thought the stat budget would a bit higher. Mod = 69*9 = 621 Enhancement = (94+39)*7 = 931 Implant/Earpiece = (94+110)*3 = 612 Augment 32*14 = 448 Stim = 70 Total = 2682 Total + Def Proc Relic = 2721 Do I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 No, there's not enough data so far to determine current attack type percentages. From a very general looking over my data the values of force/tech e/k will be slightly higher then on sv hm, so absorb and shield rating might be slighty more viable. It seems to vary based on Op (again, and unfortunately). DP seems to have a lot more F/T than DF, while DF looks depressingly like SV in a lot of ways (e.g. Nefra). So, as a rough estimate, I've been dithering between the TfB and SV stat allocations. Ultimately, I think we'll still be stuck with two separate gear sets. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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