Hey,

 

There's been many questions similar to yours, plus quite a few PMs (still reading those), asking me about the direction of the game. But, why divert resources before delivering a full operation seemed like it could be helpful to address directly.

 

Diverting suggests we only focus on Operations while ignoring the other game play systems. As many would attest to, we essentially did that the last couple years with our focus on KOTFE and KOTET. Yet, we learned a lot about content delivery and timing. We decided to leverage that into providing multi-player content on a more frequent basis, preferably every 5-6 weeks, although some content takes longer, such as Operation Boss encounters.

 

During the development of the Boss fights, I think it's prudent for us to work on other game play systems and deliver those changes instead of making everyone wait until the end of the year. That may not be the answer you were looking for, but it is the direction the team has agreed to for the foreseeable future.

 

---Keith

Making Progress :3

Psssssst, Keith.

Any news on ranked?

Hey,

 

There's been many questions similar to yours, plus quite a few PMs (still reading those), asking me about the direction of the game. But, why divert resources before delivering a full operation seemed like it could be helpful to address directly.

 

Diverting suggests we only focus on Operations while ignoring the other game play systems. As many would attest to, we essentially did that the last couple years with our focus on KOTFE and KOTET. Yet, we learned a lot about content delivery and timing. We decided to leverage that into providing multi-player content on a more frequent basis, preferably every 5-6 weeks, although some content takes longer, such as Operation Boss encounters.

 

During the development of the Boss fights, I think it's prudent for us to work on other game play systems and deliver those changes instead of making everyone wait until the end of the year. That may not be the answer you were looking for, but it is the direction the team has agreed to for the foreseeable future.

 

---Keith

Understandably, many here have gotten used to the idea that only one thing can be worked on a time. Nice to see that the message that all play styles are important and can't be left on sideline for a year+ waiting for "their turn" has arrived. I really like your approach and style thus far- I truly do. It brought me back to sub and I'm hopeful that you are really going to take the game/community to a better state.

Speaking more to the future as I realize that you taking over doesn't change the fact there was an established pipeline set prior to your new regime:

Do you envision that we are going to be getting more traditional expansions in the future (entire raid, new fps, some story, new wz, new daily area - Makab/Oricon/SOR style and purchased separately from subscription) or is the KOTFE/KOTET model (included in sub and released in pieces) the format to expect?

Hey,

 

There's been many questions similar to yours, plus quite a few PMs (still reading those), asking me about the direction of the game. But, why divert resources before delivering a full operation seemed like it could be helpful to address directly.

 

Diverting suggests we only focus on Operations while ignoring the other game play systems. As many would attest to, we essentially did that the last couple years with our focus on KOTFE and KOTET. Yet, we learned a lot about content delivery and timing. We decided to leverage that into providing multi-player content on a more frequent basis, preferably every 5-6 weeks, although some content takes longer, such as Operation Boss encounters.

 

During the development of the Boss fights, I think it's prudent for us to work on other game play systems and deliver those changes instead of making everyone wait until the end of the year. That may not be the answer you were looking for, but it is the direction the team has agreed to for the foreseeable future.

 

---Keith

Keith, as you appear to be reading the forums and with luck acting on what is said I would like to offer an alternative view to the one that you quoted.

That is World of Warcraft is succeeding not because it can be run on an old machine looking like a bad 90's cartoon, as gamers that see an MMO as something worth investing in don't then use a 14 year old machine and still pay over a subscription and additional fees on cosmetic gear. Lets face it people that aren't interested in upgrading their graphics card every 5 or so years aren't going to feel that new weapon is worth a 20 buck investment cause it will make their experience that much the nicer.

WoW is succeeding in-spite of its limited aesthetically appeal but because it offers content and lots of it. Not just raids and the content it offers appeals to the player base. Take relic weapons, from 100's level you grind out your class specific best unique (personally tailored till you got it all) weapon. No range lock boxes, not need to do any specific content though some is better than others. Playing the single solo story will get you relic power. Sure its a stupid grind but your making progress not getting to rank 300, getting a box of junk and then regrinding rank 300 for more junk!

So that aside, the idea that offering a raid boss every 3 months as it seems to be the plan seems unlikely to work. You have ignored the raid community for the last 2 years, if any are left they are either happy with the raids in the game or the primary lure is something else because if it was all about the raids as has been mentioned WoW is adding them far more consistently and would appeal to that play style far more. So adding one boss in the first 6 months of 2017 is not going to be enough to get people that have left to come back, an entire raid in WoW or one boss in ToR. The lure isn't there, the same goes for flash points and the like, you can't ignore these aspects for years then add one and expect people to be excited and give ToR another go if the new content can be completed in an evening.

So the focus on Multiple player aspects seems too little to generate sufficient interest. While perhaps more disappointingly this seems to be a move away from the last 2 years of story. Where certain people rally and cry 'You have had story for the last two years'. True, But it was an awful story. For the last 2 years we have had keeping up with the Valkorians, with our characters shoe horned into a one size fits all story that made no sense. Even if you ignore the masses of plot holes, the seemingly meaningless story arcs and the constant betrayals and lack of any real choice. Koth does the exact same thing no matter what you choose! SCORPIO is just as absent no matter what your choice. You have a story that was sadly dull about an all powerful god being that seemed to go no where and then abruptly end. Hell we had 3 missions devoted to an attack on a spire that achieved nothing. It became generic and ultimately left the player the most powerful person in the galaxy only not really cause Theron and Lana dictate every step of the way. And to top it off we learn we have been betrayed yet again! The go to move of the creative team and once again no matter what choice you make, you are the most unpopular hated tyrant in the galaxy and everyone is lining up to betray you. And that is saying something given who sat on the throne before you and loyal their followers were.

It feels that the ToR team is incredibly small, with the focus being on the Cartel Market, which week after week will get a post on whats on sale. Its mentioned it will be an op boss or some other form of content. It takes six months to do balancing changes, with balance being very far from what is being sought by all account of the post. Based solely on dps targets on a dummy completely ignoring utility, defence, self heals or every how most op bosses force melee off target for far more than 5% of the fight. While there has been a vast improvement in communication, nothing seems to have made it into the game that would attract players to give it another shot. And from the road map it seems unlikely anything will be added.

It feels that the ToR team is incredibly small, with the focus being on the Cartel Market, which week after week will get a post on whats on sale. .

I think one way for Bioware to show they are as committed to Content as they are the Cartel Market would to ONLY release a new Cartel Pack when new Content is added.

And tie that Pack aesthetically and thematically in with the new content.

All The Best

I'm sure this has been treaded on but I wanted to drop my dime on this.

 

Keith,

 

Since your arrival to the team, Personally and collectively, a lot of hope was restored that this game would return to being a functional MMO. Your statements seemed to reflect that you understood this, and I personally enjoyed your ground level gamer feel. However, subs are not returning and that community wide hope is dying out because this game still is not a functional mmo. Now I won't blame Ben for 4.0 and the Cxp failure because EA has had enough time to course correct.

 

Let me get to the core question I have Keith: why did you guys decide to divert production to other aspects of the game BEFORE you finished the new operation completely?

 

 

My commentary on the question, regardless of your response if I receive it. You seem to be a knowledgeable MMO gamer familiar enough with the landscape to understand why WoW is still going strong at over a decade. Clarifying, it's two reasons; 1) playability (you can play it on a horrible system) but more importantly 2) every content update of the game comes with at least 1 new raid experience! Until EA commits to this formula, I don't see this game being a factor in the market any longer.

 

Hopefully you read this, I'm sure it's been said but I would like a reply.

At least u got one boss. Besides, there are uprisings which are also pve.On the other side, Pvp in this gane is almost DEAD, Keith could you pls answer to pvp problems which are stated in numerous threads? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=925161

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=919522

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=925672

Pvp community becomes angry actually, thanks.

And can we pls know why there wont be any cross-server queues? It's like a great save for the game, very crucial yet you said it wont happen :/

Pvp community becomes angry actually, thanks.

 

And can we pls know why there wont be any cross-server queues? It's like a great save for the game, very crucial yet you said it wont happen :/

PvP community is ALWAYS angry - it's the same in every game.

PvP Players are angry when they die (the other guy is OP), when they win (PvP is no challenge), they are always angry - because PvP attracts that type of player.

Keith has already explained why Cross-Server Queues will not happen - it is not technically possible.

All The Best

PvP community is ALWAYS angry - it's the same in every game.

PvP Players are angry when they die (the other guy is OP), when they win (PvP is no challenge), they are always angry - because PvP attracts that type of player.

 

Keith has already explained why Cross-Server Queues will not happen - it is not technically possible.

 

All The Best

That is what always had baffled me, PVP people seem to be so... troubled at times. It seems you can never please them, like I am already thrilled I can get into a PVP match without too long of a wait! I always try to leave matches when they're done on a good note, when we lose I say "better next time" and if we win I always say "good job" or "good game". Some politeness would do wonders for the PVP people

Hey,

 

There's been many questions similar to yours, plus quite a few PMs (still reading those), asking me about the direction of the game. But, why divert resources before delivering a full operation seemed like it could be helpful to address directly.

 

Diverting suggests we only focus on Operations while ignoring the other game play systems. As many would attest to, we essentially did that the last couple years with our focus on KOTFE and KOTET. Yet, we learned a lot about content delivery and timing. We decided to leverage that into providing multi-player content on a more frequent basis, preferably every 5-6 weeks, although some content takes longer, such as Operation Boss encounters.

 

During the development of the Boss fights, I think it's prudent for us to work on other game play systems and deliver those changes instead of making everyone wait until the end of the year. That may not be the answer you were looking for, but it is the direction the team has agreed to for the foreseeable future.

 

---Keith

I actually have a follow up question to that (maybe file this under "Its hard to make everyone happy").

Based on what you said here, all work on everything essentially stopped to develop KotFE and KotET.

Now that resources are shifting to more of the multiplayer experience (and not arguing that they shouldn't), does this mean we can expect the story to be mostly ignored during this time period? And as a second follow up, if the story is going forward, how has the team taken the criticisms of the KotFE and KotET storylines being too divergent from the timeline before those expansions, and the criticism that they didn't feel like "Star Wars", and how will that impact, if at all, the story content we will be getting going forward, if story does indeed continue?

I think one way for Bioware to show they are as committed to Content as they are the Cartel Market would to ONLY release a new Cartel Pack when new Content is added.

 

And tie that Pack aesthetically and thematically in with the new content.

 

All The Best

I know why that sounds good from a player perspective, but with sub numbers dwindling, that would spell the death of this game.

Cartel Market is a MAJOR source of their income. By telling them to hold off until content is released is essentially like slashing their budget. Cartel Market is helping keep this game afloat.

That is what always had baffled me, PVP people seem to be so... troubled at times. It seems you can never please them, like I am already thrilled I can get into a PVP match without too long of a wait! I always try to leave matches when they're done on a good note, when we lose I say "better next time" and if we win I always say "good job" or "good game". Some politeness would do wonders for the PVP people

While I do agree PvPers are far more toxic to other PvPers than they should be, please don't even start on "PvPers are never pleased". Literally if they just balanced the classes more often than once every 6 months, got rid of FoTMs within a month instead of taking YEARS and just gave us Ranked and/or OWPvP rewards that aren't Cartel Reskins, most PvPers would be happy. An additional warzone and/or OWPvP map every 1.5 years would be cherry on top of the cake.

On the other hand, we've had 2 full years of story, and story players are complaining that they have to wait four months for the next story update. So let's not pretend PvPers are "hard to please", when this game's story players are the loudest, hardest to please crowd; we can literally coast on by with 0 new content as long as existing content is actually balanced.

(Can't make any comments about PvErs being impatient here though, especially the raiders. Raiders have waited 2.5 years for a new Op, and got a single boss instead, so they have every right to complain. And then there's the poor GSF community )

I know why that sounds good from a player perspective, but with sub numbers dwindling, that would spell the death of this game.

 

Cartel Market is a MAJOR source of their income. By telling them to hold off until content is released is essentially like slashing their budget. Cartel Market is helping keep this game afloat.

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Zion on this one. Not a fan of dress up barbie stuff for cash grab market, but people love that stuff. Blows my mind someone spends real money to make pretty in game. If it keeps the game afloat great, but right now it seems like it might be the only thing that is doing that.

I actually have a follow up question to that (maybe file this under "Its hard to make everyone happy").

 

Based on what you said here, all work on everything essentially stopped to develop KotFE and KotET.

 

Now that resources are shifting to more of the multiplayer experience (and not arguing that they shouldn't), does this mean we can expect the story to be mostly ignored during this time period? And as a second follow up, if the story is going forward, how has the team taken the criticisms of the KotFE and KotET storylines being too divergent from the timeline before those expansions, and the criticism that they didn't feel like "Star Wars", and how will that impact, if at all, the story content we will be getting going forward, if story does indeed continue?

As another followup to this question, is there any plan to take the storyline away from the "EVERYONE RULES THE GALAXY!" mess we have right now? There is no logical way to introduce a plausible threat into the game without writing out the entire Eternal Alliance/Empire and its Eternal Fleet, because every problem can be solved by just throwing hyperintelligent ships at it. Just look at how many "why can't I crush both the Republic and the Empire??" threads that Iokath spawned; a good story can't be written when every conflict can be won by the player pressing their "I win" button.

While I do agree PvPers are far more toxic to other PvPers than they should be, please don't even start on "PvPers are never pleased". Literally if they just balanced the classes more often than once every 6 months, got rid of FoTMs within a month instead of taking YEARS and just gave us Ranked and/or OWPvP rewards that aren't Cartel Reskins, most PvPers would be happy. An additional warzone and/or OWPvP map every 1.5 years would be cherry on top of the cake.

 

On the other hand, we've had 2 full years of story, and story players are complaining that they have to wait four months for the next story update. So let's not pretend PvPers are "hard to please", when this game's story players are the loudest, hardest to please crowd; we can literally coast on by with 0 new content as long as existing content is actually balanced.

As a mainly solo PvE player I agree - there's been much too much emphasis in just story content (and not vert good story content at that).

I've been playing MMORPGs since Vanilla WoW and I have NEVER seen a game where PvP players were not constantly complaining about something. Not once in all those years... ...except the one game that tried its hardest to separate PvP from PvE - LOTRO.

I'd love to believe that PvP players would be happy if FOTM Builds were addressed quicker - problem is that would just mean something else would become the new FOTM Build, and the PvP players would be whining about that. I know it, you know it, so let's stop pretending it would be otherwise.

All The Best

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Zion on this one. Not a fan of dress up barbie stuff for cash grab market, but people love that stuff. Blows my mind someone spends real money to make pretty in game. If it keeps the game afloat great, but right now it seems like it might be the only thing that is doing that.

Well depends on the person. I have always done that even when I played SWG. Being a girl might have something to do with that but then again it might be just the way I am. Even in school things had to match perfectly and my mom can vouch for me she had to take 4 patterns just to make me one dress because I had specific ideas what I wanted so for me doing the same thing in a game is just the type of person I am, which probably explains why I have 16 outfits in the outfit changer.

Hey,

 

There's been many questions similar to yours, plus quite a few PMs (still reading those), asking me about the direction of the game. But, why divert resources before delivering a full operation seemed like it could be helpful to address directly.

 

Diverting suggests we only focus on Operations while ignoring the other game play systems. As many would attest to, we essentially did that the last couple years with our focus on KOTFE and KOTET. Yet, we learned a lot about content delivery and timing. We decided to leverage that into providing multi-player content on a more frequent basis, preferably every 5-6 weeks, although some content takes longer, such as Operation Boss encounters.

 

During the development of the Boss fights, I think it's prudent for us to work on other game play systems and deliver those changes instead of making everyone wait until the end of the year. That may not be the answer you were looking for, but it is the direction the team has agreed to for the foreseeable future.

 

---Keith

That sounds reasonable. I think that's the best way to go.

Less Cosmetics - More Real-Content.

This way, the Cartel Market Prospects will be irrelevant compared to Bigger Profit Gains from more Subs

(i.e. Real Content = More Subs )

Doesn't defeat the fact that some Players are still Preferring SWG over SWTOR. This alone shows how much part of the Star Wars MMO Community likes those SWG's concepts - to go so far as to Play it even after it "officially" shuts down speaks volumes.

 

Same goes for Vanilla WoW Servers.

Vanilla WoW actually had a lot more traction than the SWG EMU. The reason the SWG EMU gets ignored is because it just isn't popular.

Back when Ultima Online was the first real MMO, and all those systems were new, it may have been revolutionary, but after the SWG systems got old, the game plateaued and died out.

At its peak, SWG had about 400k-500k subs. I want to say it plateaued at 550k, and then began to slowly hemorrhage players, which is why SOE freaked and did the CU and then the NGE (both bad decisions).

At its peak, I want to say SWTOR hit about 3 million subscribers, maybe 3.5. And really held onto about 2 mil for the longest time, until KotFE hit (actually, the first hit they took was a slow bleed before they finally confirmed after staff turnover no more class stories).

What that should tell anyone is that for all the very awesome systems SWG did have, it was missing the one thing that held onto people - Story. It was a contentless void in terms of making your character feel like an important star wars character.

SWTOR picked up on that and learned from the mistake. However, they made some mistakes of their own. The Voice Acting was a definite plus, but planning on infinite story for 8 classes was too ambitious - Had they planned for 8 class stories with a definitive beginning, middle and end, and paced those stories from the beginning like they paced the starter and faction planets, they likely could have sold the budget to EA given completing the game could have had a finite cost, players would have had a complete and satisfying story, and then when they eventually went more shoestring budget, they could have still added supplementary stories via daily areas, flashpoints, and the occasional operation. Also, their decision to abandon the pre-KotFE story in order to shoehorn it into a bad fit with KotFE and KotET was an epic disaster only saved by the fact that those expansions also brought the very best Quality of Life improvements to the game that it ever had in its history.

I think if anyone were to do it over, with a new SW mmo, the ideal would be to find a balance, a mix, between SWTOR and SWG.

If I were making the next Star Wars MMO?

I'd want to be BioWare, crafting it in the KOTOR universe. I'd consult with Lucasfilm to craft a narrative that is canon.

I'd reboot the story entirely, bringing it back to the original time of Revan, and play on people's expectations and even fatigue with that story, leading them down what seems like a familiar path, only to throw curve ball after curve ball to make the story new and fresh again, and I'd combine characters from the KOTOR timeline with the SWTOR timeline and introduce new characters as well - a mix of old and fresh, to create a full universe.

I'd make sure the story I told had a beginning, middle, and end. I'd have the planets and stories all laid out and planned to be paced to level 100 (nice round number). I'd have an event midway through leveling and one at the end vs the final big bad that ties all the stories together (saving on budget), with more class stories between the mid and end point.

I'd have the freemium/cartel market model from the beginning, even if players protest, because it will bring in a ton of cash for further development.

I'd find a way to bring in crafting and entertaining from SWG - I'd give them stories as well, and give miners their own open world planets to mine from, and then take that goods and craft in a similar system to SWG. Operations Bosses and Heroic Mobs would drop power ups that can go into craftable items. Cartel market may sell the skins, but the crafters would make the good that go into the skins. Entertainers would need to perform gigs at cantinas, and would give buffs to people that would be a more powerful version of SWTOR's stims.

Entertainer and Tradesman would be their own profession, with a smaller story but some repeatable content (like entertainers having a manager who sends them out for gigs to level, or a Trademan choosing to work for one of 3 or 4 mining companies.).

I'd remove flashpoints in favor of making Heroics longer (halfway between your standard heroic and flashpoint) and would keep the dialogue wheel and full voice overs.

But hey, that's just me. I digress. The point is, I think there is a balance that can be found that can bring SWG and SWTOR together, and learn from the mistakes of both.

We decided to leverage that into providing multi-player content on a more frequent basis, preferably every 5-6 weeks, although some content takes longer, such as Operation Boss encounters.

 

During the development of the Boss fights, I think it's prudent for us to work on other game play systems and deliver those changes instead of making everyone wait until the end of the year.

Hi Keith that sounds good, though while I do know it takes time I don't see any hints that you secured a budget big enough for doing more than a couple of light updates and say full new OPs fast enough.

Vanilla WoW actually had a lot more traction than the SWG EMU. The reason the SWG EMU gets ignored is because it just isn't popular..

You can't really compare a game published by THE AAA top studio and a 10+ year old game build from scratch by crowsourcing.

At its peak, SWG had about 400k-500k subs. I want to say it plateaued at 550k, and then began to slowly hemorrhage players, which is why SOE freaked and did the CU and then the NGE (both bad decisions).

$OE wanted to reach WoW numbers, issue being they had the worst communication ever (even lieing to the players many times) and not even fixing major bugs vs WoW which had from start a much more polished game and iterated to make it better

At its peak, I want to say SWTOR hit about 3 million subscribers, maybe 3.5. And really held onto about 2 mil for the longest time, until KotFE hit (actually, the first hit they took was a slow bleed before they finally confirmed after staff turnover no more class stories).

 

What that should tell anyone is that for all the very awesome systems SWG did have, it was missing the one thing that held onto people - Story. It was a contentless void in terms of making your character feel like an important star wars character.

SWG indeeded lacked the themed park content, not specifically story but quests.

SWTOR picked up on that and learned from the mistake. However, they made some mistakes of their own. The Voice Acting was a definite plus, but planning on infinite story for 8 classes was too ambitious - Had they planned for 8 class stories with a definitive beginning, middle and end, and paced those stories from the beginning like they paced the starter and faction planets, they likely could have sold the budget to EA given completing the game could have had a finite cost, players would have had a complete and satisfying story, and then when they eventually went more shoestring budget, they could have still added supplementary stories via daily areas, flashpoints, and the occasional operation.

Top issues where

• #1 Not realizing MMO players burn content 10 times fold faster then RPG players
  
• #2 Not realizing there's very few replay-ability value in V.O. story for most MMO players
  
• #3 Lack of end game content
  
• #4 Stubbornness with the we know better than the player what they want
  
• #5 Mismanagement that lead to wasted time and resources so lack of time to properly finish and polish the game
  

Also, their decision to abandon the pre-KotFE story in order to shoehorn it into a bad fit with KotFE and KotET was an epic disaster only saved by the fact that those expansions also brought the very best Quality of Life improvements to the game that it ever had in its history.

They simply had not the budget to continue all the class story and did not want to only focus on one/two of them at a time and disappoint other classes fans.

I think if anyone were to do it over, with a new SW mmo, the ideal would be to find a balance, a mix, between SWTOR and SWG.

The next very successful AAA MMO will be a themed park with sand box elements. Been advocating that for like 10 years

If I were making the next Star Wars MMO?

 

**snip**

I just want to be done once for all with Revan, the emperor and the Kardashian family. It got old 2 years ago.

You want to get rid of levels they prevent players to group easily. SWG had this right allowing everyone to group with anyone and still add a bonus to the team.

You certainly want to get the consumers profit (for those versed in economics ) and mix F2P, sub, CM and such.

SWG main issue with crafting was the uniqueness of every crafted items. It was a disaster in terms of database size and load. Though an in between system can be designed.

RP and socializers elements are indeed a must have though the cantina's buff aren't the cup of tea for everyone. Some despited having to stand and wait for the buff to be applied.

You certainly not want to remove flashpoints nor making heroics longer, they both fill 2 different niche perfectly. Does not mean you can't tweak them though.

Now to your answer your question what would be a killer SW MMO:

A mix of Dark forces + X-wing vs Tie Fighter along theme park missions/story/instances and as icing some sandbox elements.

Battlefront has some of the above but there's room for much better.

At its peak, SWG had about 400k-500k subs. I want to say it plateaued at 550k, and then began to slowly hemorrhage players, which is why SOE freaked and did the CU and then the NGE (both bad decisions).

Peaked at 300K... stable at that range for a couple years, and fell off a cliff in 2006.

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A mix of Dark forces + X-wing vs Tie Fighter along theme park missions/story/instances and as icing some sandbox elements.

Battlefront has some of the above but there's room for much better.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Open-World Please