- Are you seriously that naive to believe that?

 

In its prime, with over 200 servers, SWTOR was estimated to have 350k concurrent users (with ~2 million subscribers total). Source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01...current-users/

 

Guild Wars 2 on the other hand has 460k according to Arena Net themselves: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/g...he-first-year/

 

Try and convince me now how "populations are similar". Please tell me how SWTOR's current population comes even close to that of GW2, when it could not match its concurrent players in its prime?

It matters NOT what each of these two MMOs were in their "prime" at launch. What matters is what their sustained stable active populations are. This is a completely pointless attempt on your part.

Active player populations are in fact similar today for the two MMOs, with SWTOR being higher actually if you count all active players, not just subs. See, you conveniently neglected to include the non-sub player based in SWTOR, which is at least as large as the sub base, and probably higher to be honest.

Sorry but you're talking out your backside. The guy just gave you facts, so you should kinda learn to accept them

No, what he gave was 2 year old spin, tuned to his particular agenda.

It matters NOT what each of these two MMOs were in their "prime" at launch. What matters is what their sustained stable active populations are. This is a completely pointless attempt on your part.

 

Active player populations are in fact similar today for the two MMOs, with SWTOR being higher actually if you count all active players, not just subs. See, you conveniently neglected to include the non-sub player based in SWTOR, which is at least as large as the sub base, and probably higher to be honest.

Didn't you have like 48 trillion posts back in the "prime" explaining to everyone who didn't ask how it was good and normal to lose 80% of the playerbase in less time than it takes to watch a Peter Jackson movie?

Didn't you have like 48 trillion posts back in the "prime" explaining to everyone who didn't ask how it was good and normal to lose 80% of the playerbase in less time than it takes to watch a Peter Jackson movie?

What is your point?

It IS in fact normal for a new MMO to loose north of 70% of it's active player base early after launch (launch+6-months). Most MMOs in fact are unable to even establish a stable run-rate in the first year. It's pretty normal unfortunately, and it more about the change in player tastes in gaming then anything else. And GW2 has been just as susceptible to the phenomena as any other modern launch.

What matters is active player base over the long term.. and for that you need to be looking at an MMO 1, 2, 3, n years after launch. And what matters with facts is when comparing a sub-hybrid, a sub only, or a buy-2-play MMO in terms of active playerbase numbers. Of course the companies are interested in revenue per active player as well.

What is your point?

 

It IS in fact normal for a new MMO to loose north of 70% of it's active player base early after launch (launch+6-months). Most MMOs in fact are unable to even establish a stable run-rate in the first year. It's pretty normal unfortunately, and it more about the change in player tastes in gaming then anything else. And GW2 has been just as susceptible to the phenomena as any other modern launch.

 

What matters is active player base over the long term.. and for that you need to be looking at an MMO 1, 2, 3, n years after launch. And what matters with facts is when comparing a sub-hybrid, a sub only, or a buy-2-play MMO in terms of active playerbase numbers. Of course the companies are interested in revenue per active player as well.

Cute.

And would u call this MMO stabilizing? NO. It's losing subs. Read the most recent EA quarterly report.

Cute.

 

And would u call this MMO stabilizing? NO. It's losing subs. Read the most recent EA quarterly report.

Cute.

And would u call this MMO financially successful today? YES. It's gaining profits. Read the most recent EA quarterly report.

You are both cute to a point. Raport maybe is saying that game is profiting but it's also saying but subs are dropping if I remember correctly. It was also said more than once (and even by BW) that most money spent on CM is by subs. Sooo... subs dropping is also bad for CM and it's about time they include that vision in their plans.

But when the game changes its model then relying on subs alone for profitability is wrong hence why subs dropping and CM costs rising makes perfect sense. It is just denial of fact to say with the game's model changing that subs dropping equals bad. They have a hybrid system now.

What is your point?

 

It IS in fact normal for a new MMO to loose north of 70% of it's active player base early after launch (launch+6-months). Most MMOs in fact are unable to even establish a stable run-rate in the first year. It's pretty normal unfortunately, and it more about the change in player tastes in gaming then anything else. And GW2 has been just as susceptible to the phenomena as any other modern launch.

 

What matters is active player base over the long term.. and for that you need to be looking at an MMO 1, 2, 3, n years after launch. And what matters with facts is when comparing a sub-hybrid, a sub only, or a buy-2-play MMO in terms of active playerbase numbers. Of course the companies are interested in revenue per active player as well.

No it is not normal to lose 70+% of your subscribers in short order. Well, technically it would be true, but then most MMO's tank. So yes, it is normal to lose most of your customers IF you compare to all the other failed MMO's. If you compare to the successful ones, it is not normal, it is disastrous. Most MMO's that see those sorts of collapses go back to the drawing board.

And again... No. It is not the player's fault for not liking the games we are given. It is the fault of the GAMES. How is this so difficult to understand?

No it is not normal to lose 70+% of your subscribers in short order. Well, technically it would be true, but then most MMO's tank. So yes, it is normal to lose most of your customers IF you compare to all the other failed MMO's. If you compare to the successful ones, it is not normal, it is disastrous. Most MMO's that see those sorts of collapses go back to the drawing board.

 

And again... No. It is not the player's fault for not liking the games we are given. It is the fault of the GAMES. How is this so difficult to understand?

The only successful MMO is Eve because it is the only one that has increased subscriber numbers over time. Even WoW has lost subscribers over time from its peak. So yes, in today's market condition of MMOs, losing subscribers is the norm. A successful MMO in today's market is one that maintains profitability despite that fact. So far, very few current MMOs are not profitable.

As for your last statement, you are only half correct. In all reality, it is neither the player's fault nor the game's fault that a player does not like a game. Fun and enjoyment are subjective terms, therefore just because a game is unliked by a player does not inherently mean the game is bad or "unfun", nor does it mean that there is something wrong with that player because he cannot enjoy that game. It simply means that the game is not suited to the type of experience the player enjoys. There is nothing wrong with that. Vanilla ice cream is the most popular flavor of ice cream. I do not particularly like vanilla ice cream. That doesn't mean someone has to be at fault because I do not like vanilla ice cream - that's just life.

The only successful MMO is Eve because it is the only one that has increased subscriber numbers over time. Even WoW has lost subscribers over time from its peak. So yes, in today's market condition of MMOs, losing subscribers is the norm. A successful MMO in today's market is one that maintains profitability despite that fact. So far, very few current MMOs are not profitable.

 

As for your last statement, you are only half correct. In all reality, it is neither the player's fault nor the game's fault that a player does not like a game. Fun and enjoyment are subjective terms, therefore just because a game is unliked by a player does not inherently mean the game is bad or "unfun", nor does it mean that there is something wrong with that player because he cannot enjoy that game. It simply means that the game is not suited to the type of experience the player enjoys. There is nothing wrong with that. Vanilla ice cream is the most popular flavor of ice cream. I do not particularly like vanilla ice cream. That doesn't mean someone has to be at fault because I do not like vanilla ice cream - that's just life.

Financial success of an MMO has much to do with its cost. A $20 million MMO can be far more "successful" than a $200 million one with far less people. Much like movies. John Carter can make hundreds of million$ and be a flop, and Mad Max can make tens of million$ and be one the most profitable ever made.

In the corporate world though, it's all about projections and growth. If you expect to make $20 million per month and you are only making $10 million, you will be a giant failure and your entire team will be fired for "failing". Then new people will be brought in, and if they can turn that $10 million into $10.5 million, they will be hailed as geniuses and promoted.