the quest reward xp is only half of what your earning by doing htem. The heroic content xp is per kill is higher then normal quest xp per kill. Normaly doing 1 heroic +4 and doing hte bonuses will yeild you close to a full level.

 

The XP is great, so great that if you were actually doing all heroic 4s by killing your way in, you'd have to end up skipping entire planets at some point to not out level them assuming you've no interest in doing quests that yield no xp.

 

So again, what's the point to do content that, if you did it all, would force you to skip a planet later? I guess you can do ONLY heroic + story + major quest, but what do you gain out of it? It's not really any faster than doing normal quests, and the gear reward is negligible (heroic 4 oranges are usually worse than plain blues of same level).

Rofl, Heroic 4s are one of the reasons this game leveling system doesn't blow balls..

 

I lvled up with 2 other friends (we always had a pug healer with us and it was usually the same guy) and we flew to 50 very quickly because we only did the Class quests on whatever Planet we were on, and the Heroics, i mean we skipped a STUPID amount of quests, Hell I'm still finding places i've not been on my 3rd Character i'm lvling... all because of Heroic 4's, If you group up in this game, they're honestly the fastest XP in the game, and the best way to lvl period.

 

This is one of the few games that actually did it right on lvling, You can solo if ya want, and you have some nice solo content, but if you group, it's faster and you get rewarded for doing it.

I think, you all confused what purpose [Heroic] missions really serve.

 

- It is not part of planet story

- It is not part of class story

- It can be skipped without decrementing to your experience

= You aren't required to do them in any way or form

 

+ It giving fun alternative to players completing content in group

+ It provide one of a kind orange gear as reward or planet commendations in ample quantities, so you can feast yourself at commendation vendor

+ It sometimes giving you unique loot from inside heroic NPCs, like orange bracers/belts (I look at you, Taris)

= Right alternative to solo questing or just bonus activity with right rewards for right kind of people.

 

At level 50 you also have few daily heroics, and all of them giving you just that - bonus. Be it purple mod or armoring, or one of a kind orange gear for your companions, or commendations in ample quantities, so you can feast yourself at commendation vendor... see the trend here now? Guess no one have problem finding group for level 50 dailies, right?

 

 

TLDR: It is bonus - you can do it and get above average rewards, or you can skip it easily.

 

P.S. I've completed almost all [Heroic] missions on every planet, and never I met problem finding group for them. Even while at average planet population is 15-20 on my server.

 

In fact I have had bigger problem finding group for Ancient Probe droid on Hoth, then for any of Hoth bonus series heroics.

 

 

15-20 people on a planet is a lot I hardly ever see more then 3-4 people on a planet.

Rofl, Heroic 4s are one of the reasons this game leveling system doesn't blow balls..

 

I lvled up with 2 other friends (we always had a pug healer with us and it was usually the same guy) and we flew to 50 very quickly because we only did the Class quests on whatever Planet we were on, and the Heroics, i mean we skipped a STUPID amount of quests, Hell I'm still finding places i've not been on my 3rd Character i'm lvling... all because of Heroic 4's, If you group up in this game, they're honestly the fastest XP in the game, and the best way to lvl period.

 

This is one of the few games that actually did it right on lvling, You can solo if ya want, and you have some nice solo content, but if you group, it's faster and you get rewarded for doing it.

 

Most people that play this game have no friend who also play and since most planets are empty it is very hard to find a group.

Guys, you can kill one mob and leave the Heroic, enter again, kill second one, and do that over and over again. Nice when doing it solo.

I totally agree with this. When I was questing i simply do each mission once but after finishing Alderaan i am already lvl 36.5, 4.5 levels over the planet.

 

I would say the ideal set up for mission is that after doing all the missions on a planet you can ALMOST get enough exp to fill that 4 level gap.

 

Again, i understand people have different play styles, but still, why put things there if they are meant to be skipped.

 

The XP is great, so great that if you were actually doing all heroic 4s by killing your way in, you'd have to end up skipping entire planets at some point to not out level them assuming you've no interest in doing quests that yield no xp.

 

So again, what's the point to do content that, if you did it all, would force you to skip a planet later? I guess you can do ONLY heroic + story + major quest, but what do you gain out of it? It's not really any faster than doing normal quests, and the gear reward is negligible (heroic 4 oranges are usually worse than plain blues of same level).

Also, one of my major complains regarding Heroic missions is that some of them are put at the dead last part of the planet mission chain while most the players are already moving on the next planet.

 

The whole bonus series idea is kinda waste, especially the heroic missions in them.

Again, i understand people have different play styles, but still, why put things there if they are meant to be skipped.

 

Why do people assume that if they don't want to do the mission, that it's meant to be skipped? The guy above spelled it out pretty clearly: it's extra content. It doesn't hurt you if you skip it but it rewards you if you do it when it's level appropriate.

 

How dumb do people have to be to complain that soloing a Hoth H4 at 50 doesn't give good loot?

 

The only problem with completing them is that there are too many low population servers, but that has nothing to do with Heroic 4s in and of themselves.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Aeryl

Very interesting topic, I think.

 

For my guild there isn't any use to do the Heroic 4s. It was in the beginning when everything was brand new. But after that, there isn't any use and it's too much work to get a good group going, since a perfect group is needed. And at lvl 50 one does the flashpoints instead.

 

I agree with the idea of making more Heroic 2+ (but not too many!!) and then have one heroic 4 per planet that has an unique story or something, like a mini flashpoint.

That said,

ALL Heroic 2's should be soloable with your companion AT LEVEL (depending on class this currently isn't always true).

 

Meh. That's not very "heroic". That's just questing in a phased area, and we have plenty of those already. There should be some challenge!

 

 

Heroic 4's should be doable with just 2 people with their companions, this isn't true either for all of them. Although as mentioned some are able to be done solo.

 

My gf and I do that already. Good communication between the two players is key. Even then it's not always a steamroll through the place.

 

 

Posters upthread said it best: grouping-to-level just isn't viable for most players, and the planets are deserted now that the rush is done. I agree that there should be more Heroic 2+ and not as many Heroic 4's, or at least move the 4's to earlier in the planetary quest hubs. Little reason to do them when you're leaving the planet, extra content or otherwise.

Well, a more precise wording might be: The current set up is discouraging people who want to do these missions.?

 

Bioware should set up the missions in a way that encourages people to experience it. That's why we have mission hubs, bread crumb missions etc. I do think they could do a better job though.

 

Why do people assume that if they don't want to do the mission, that it's meant to be skipped? The guy above spelled it out pretty clearly: it's extra content. It doesn't hurt you if you skip it but it rewards you if you do it when it's level appropriate.

 

How dumb do people have to be to complain that soloing a Hoth H4 at 50 doesn't give good loot?

 

The only problem with completing them is that there are too many low population servers, but that has nothing to do with Heroic 4s in and of themselves.

Yeah. I already made a thread about this, got pretty much the same responses. Let's sum up the arguments real quick.

 

1. Heroics are extra content. No one's making you do them. Well, SWTOR is a video game. No one's making me play it. But I do, because I want to.

 

2. Heroics are not meant to be done solo. No duh, Sherlock. The whole argument is that it can take a miracle of God and an act of Congress to get a group together to knock out a 15-20 minute quest that makes you choose between mod gear, a box, or commendations.

 

3. They're not hard if you have a tank and healer. Again, no duh. There is no content outside of a Flashpoint or Operation that can't be knocked out by a tank/healer duo. Try that with two DPS at the appropriate level, doesn't work so well. And this is coming from a guy that plays all three specs.

 

4. Use companions. I learned on my very first origin world that companions can and always should be considered base-line retarded, no matter how well you think you've configured them. Mako is good for eye-candy, Slicing, and helping out against the class-story elites. Not soloing a Heroic and keeping me alive when a combo Strong/Elites are kicking the tar out of me, even with her and mine CCs. And this is, again, coming from someone who rolled a tank.

 

5. Socialize and make friends. I don't know what kind of friends you have, but if I told mine to drop everything they were doing and fly halfway across the galaxy to help me knock out an optional Heroic, I wouldn't have friends for very long. Or a guild, for that matter. Hell, people lose their minds just when I spam General asking for one single random guy in the same area with the same quest.

 

No where in any of those is one thing properly explaining why 4-man Heroics are a needed and loved thing in this game. They're here, they're annoying as hell, they don't reward anything near making the effort worth it. They need to be either made easier to manage (bumped down to 2-mans, make less of them, etc), or need to be made worth the effort (better rewards, mandatory to complete planet side-quest saga, hide datacrons in them, etc.)

You forgot one powerful arguement: Re-roll in a high-population server!

 

Yeah. I already made a thread about this, got pretty much the same responses. Let's sum up the arguments real quick.

 

1. Heroics are extra content. No one's making you do them. Well, SWTOR is a video game. No one's making me play it. But I do, because I want to.

 

2. Heroics are not meant to be done solo. No duh, Sherlock. The whole argument is that it can take a miracle of God and an act of Congress to get a group together to knock out a 15-20 minute quest that makes you choose between mod gear, a box, or commendations.

 

3. They're not hard if you have a tank and healer. Again, no duh. There is no content outside of a Flashpoint or Operation that can't be knocked out by a tank/healer duo. Try that with two DPS at the appropriate level, doesn't work so well. And this is coming from a guy that plays all three specs.

 

4. Use companions. I learned on my very first origin world that companions can and always should be considered base-line retarded, no matter how well you think you've configured them. Mako is good for eye-candy, Slicing, and helping out against the class-story elites. Not soloing a Heroic and keeping me alive when a combo Strong/Elites are kicking the tar out of me, even with her and mine CCs. And this is, again, coming from someone who rolled a tank.

 

5. Socialize and make friends. I don't know what kind of friends you have, but if I told mine to drop everything they were doing and fly halfway across the galaxy to help me knock out an optional Heroic, I wouldn't have friends for very long. Or a guild, for that matter. Hell, people lose their minds just when I spam General asking for one single random guy in the same area with the same quest.

 

No where in any of those is one thing properly explaining why 4-man Heroics are a needed and loved thing in this game. They're here, they're annoying as hell, they don't reward anything near making the effort worth it. They need to be either made easier to manage (bumped down to 2-mans, make less of them, etc), or need to be made worth the effort (better rewards, mandatory to complete planet side-quest saga, hide datacrons in them, etc.)

I am not against Heroic 4s, but I am against them being EVERYONE in one planet and outnumbering Heroic 2s.

 

Your per-planet population gets up to 4? Hot dog! What server are you on?

 

Anyway, the only problem with Heroics is that we can't do them. Not with a pickup group anyway. Nobody to pick up.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Felioats

You forgot one powerful arguement: Re-roll in a high-population server!

 

That's an argument?

You forgot one powerful arguement: Re-roll in a high-population server!

 

Which is a terrible terrible terrible argument.

Which is a terrible terrible terrible argument.

 

Why?

 

Server merge *may* be coming, or it may be a transfer option, , but to expect it NOW just because you want it is not very intelligent. So re-rolling on a new server is about the only option you currently have.

 

And that suggestion is FAR more viable than coming to the forums and complaining about it. It is perfectly reasonable to ask for the merge/transfer option, and the devs have even said they are working on it, so give them time. I would guess that it is a "non-trivial task". And is even more complicated by the Legacy stuff. If you don't like it, then leave.

Why?

 

Server merge *may* be coming, or it may be a transfer option, , but to expect it NOW just because you want it is not very intelligent. So re-rolling on a new server is about the only option you currently have.

 

And that suggestion is FAR more viable than coming to the forums and complaining about it. It is perfectly reasonable to ask for the merge/transfer option, and the devs have even said they are working on it, so give them time. I would guess that it is a "non-trivial task". And is even more complicated by the Legacy stuff. If you don't like it, then leave.

 

Yeah...I play on a high-population server. Server population is not the problem with Heroics. So that's why it's a terrible argument.

The problem with Heroic 4s and why nobody does them is because there are TOO MANY of them on one planet to the point where people like myself just skips them to keep the pace of my planet/class story level.

I hate questing. It is utterly boring. Even in this game, and especially once you did the non-class quests on both empire and republic. In "that other game" the times I have to quest are the most boring times. Now, I do like PvP in SWTOR (not very much in "that other game" esp not whilst lvling). So I tend to do WZ, FP, or H2/H4 (H2 I can usually solo). Less H4 would mean less content for me. You see, non-class quests are almost always same. And class-quest too if you reroll to same class.

 

People do Heroic 2s in groups because it is easier to group. Two tanks can group together and one can bring a DPS companion and the other can bring a healing companion. However, for a Heroic 4, you have to spam chat to find 2 DPS, 1 Healer and 1 Tank. And it is always hard to find that 1 healer. So imagine trying to do this 4-5 times on one planet!

On a planet you can still quest. Once group full you need to gather together. You also have emergency fleet pass (and if you got authenticator you got 1k credits fleet pass with 1 hr CD; recommended!!).

 

Having leveled a char as healer from 1-50 I can safely say I tried my best to get in groups but 1) I like challenge instead of faceroll. This means I try to be not overgeared/overlvled and we may wipe; it is hard to find a group of mature people. Often I get ADHD kiddies who want "fast group spacebar lolol" instead of a group of mature, relaxed but good players who communicate when required (e.g. "my first time here" or "how do I tank this boss" or "I will mark don't pull yet"). Actually, it was hard to get a group past l30, and I really tried.

 

I believe around l40 people just do WZ and use "PvP" gear from there, especially on low pop realms. I did not now this on my first character (which I lvled up as healer from 1-50, and did NOT do much PvP on) so around l30-35 there was not much for me to do but quest (solo, as healer, goes slooowwww).

 

Give us dual spec and people will more likely have a DPS and healer spec. DPS spec to level. One possible problem with that is the healer may not be used to healing.

Which is a terrible terrible terrible argument.

It isn't. It depends.

 

I see it as a long term investment. Let me tell you my circumstances.

 

I rolled a jedi sage healer at a random realm, started to make friends on start, joined a big guild and GM was AFK. Started a small guild with a number of old guildies. Realm was pretty much dead after december though. My sage got to l47, completed class quest (in many l40 gear, companion starting gear, so it was tough). There was nothing for me to do (as I dislike questing and did not do PvP in WZ; there was not much WZ anyway, and the republic is terrible at PvP on this realm). I took a break of 1-2 months. When I came back, I was still bored with my character. My realm was still dead. I did not know what to do.

 

I saw a movie about imperial agent storyline and was hooked. I rerolled to a realm where I knew was high pop, and where I knew a friend was playing. I have never played with him since he plays very casual and I did not knew his nicknames until after a few weeks. So then I started, I started making friends on realm, did lots of WZ (the reps are again not very good but we usually get Huttball) and now I am l50 in a guild which cleared all on HM. Casual players, good atmosphere, alive and active.

 

Eventually I got my sage to l50 too, and joined a casual guild doing raiding, but there is still not much WZ and the realm is pretty much dead. It doesn't surprise me I am often the only healer in WZ (healers never get MVP vote). From my observation in WoW almost dead realms become more dead while active realms stay active. I don't think my sage has a long life to live, sadly...

There are actually a lot you can solo, as long as you dont have to fight Champions or more than 2 Elites at a time.

 

Stealth, CC's and Dieing a lot help.

 

And yes, since you can buy most of the gear from vendors, they too dam hard and very pointless.

 

If you are Playing a Juggernaut or a Guardian don't even try.

 

Heroic 4

 

Obviously you can't solo them at level.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Jrea

There are actually a lot you can solo, as long as you dont have to fight Champions or more than 2 Elites at a time.

 

Stealth, CC's and Dieing a lot help.

 

And yes, since you can buy most of the gear from vendors, they too dam hard and very pointless.

 

If you are Playing a Juggernaut or a Guardian don't even try.

 

look at the dates of the previous posts before replying to threads?

I've been experimenting with various characters to see if I can beat the various Heroic 4s around the world, partly just to see if there's anything interesting in the story and partly because I'm bored. I've come to the conclusion that some heroic 4s are absolutely impossible to solo at even level or even while they still give XP. You can be clever about stuff that requires you hitting switches or killing just a large number of mobs, but there's always some Heroic 4 that features like a guy with boss immunity and 3 elite friends that you cannot possibly solo unless you're 10 levels higher than the enemy.

 

Now people will say they're Heroic 4s, they're not meant to be soloed, and that's fine, but people pretty much never group up in this game to do anything. Besides, when you do beat them, the reward is usually something uninteresting like a random orange item with blue/green mix of parts, or 3 commendations. You won't get anything that makes you feel powerful even compared to just doing crew skills, and crew skills are weak right now. You get something like 2X worth of XP, except leveling is trivial in this game. Basically Heroic 4s only make sense if you know at least one other guys who likes to kill hordes of elites that are actually sort of challenging instead of just level up to 50 through normal quests and/or PvP. I mean, it's not like being able to duo a Heroic 4 teaches you any meaningful skill in the end game (well it actually does but if you can learn from that you're already set).

 

The Heroic 2s, on the other hand, are actually pretty well thought out. You can usually solo them if you really know what you're doing or you can grab some help, and it's not even clear if the Heroic 4s give better loot than the Heroic 2s.

 

There should be at most one Heroic 4 per planet, and Heroic 4s should give twice the reward compared to a Heroic 2 so that there might actually be a reason to try to find some other people to do them.

 

Some of them (the Nar Shaddaa and Tatooine ones) are easily soloed at just 3-4 levels above and will still be green. But most of them require 5 levels extra to solo. Obviously EoT is a joke as a chimpanzee in Columi can solo EoT.

like you just solo Necro a 9 month old thread...

ughhhh Edited December 5, 2012 by VigDiath