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Hardmode "manners"


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Depends on my patience at the time, I don't mind the odd trash pull or clearing a mob I wouldn't usually however new player do need to be aware of their surroundings and what they're doing. It's all well being new to content but that doesn't give you an excuse for not being careful.

 

Earlier for example in LI HM it took us 15 minutes just to get to the shaclaw because someone kept running through mobs despite being given guidance on the route to take only to find once we got to LR-5 the tank who said "he knew what he was doing" didn't seem to know where his interrupts were.

 

I'm all for helping and explaining to others to a degree but some people can't seem to get through content without their hand being held the entire way, question is did they really earn the comms by being carried unnecessarily?

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Proper manners would be the following:

 

Questions to ask:

 

1: speed run or full clear?

2: skip dialogue or playing for story?

3: fully geared or needing something?

 

If a group or player doesn't know the speed runs and want to do a full clear, kindly bow out or just play it.

If a group or a player doesn't want to skip the story, kindly bow out of the group or just play it.

If a group or a player isn't fully geared, it's not cool to need **** for your companion.

 

If you ask, communicate and decide as a majority group. That's how it is and at least people understand without the ******** attitude.

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the group is as strongest as its weakest link so therefore the group must be acoustomed to it. and if people run the flashpoints because its a waste of time, then why run them? do something else instead of making other players' game more rough

 

The problem is that if the weakest link is a DPS it can easily be replaced in a few seconds.

 

When I tank a FP HM I ask at the start if it's anyones first time and if they want to watch the story.

The people who do not answer there have no right to watch the storys and I will not explain the bosses to them.

 

When a player accidently adds a group I have no problem with it but if he adds repeatedly from just not being capable to follow me I will initiate a vote kick.

(If you get stuck it's a whole other thing. I sometimes get stuck in the most ridicoulos things. I have never kicked somebody for getting stuck and through that add mobs.)

 

The reason nr. 1 for me to kick people is: People not knowing their role.

A DPS who repeatedly pulls groups is a kicked DPS for me. (1st time: Tell him not to do it again. 2nd time: kick)

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Depends on my patience at the time, I don't mind the odd trash pull or clearing a mob I wouldn't usually however new player do need to be aware of their surroundings and what they're doing. It's all well being new to content but that doesn't give you an excuse for not being careful.

 

Earlier for example in LI HM it took us 15 minutes just to get to the shaclaw because someone kept running through mobs despite being given guidance on the route to take only to find once we got to LR-5 the tank who said "he knew what he was doing" didn't seem to know where his interrupts were.

 

I'm all for helping and explaining to others to a degree but some people can't seem to get through content without their hand being held the entire way, question is did they really earn the comms by being carried unnecessarily?

 

As for my accidental pull case, i was doing the droid mentor one (im sorry i cant remember the name) and there are some tents people like to hop over. i fell of the second one tryin to jump to the third. so i went around the corner and there was a droid right there hidden and 2 others got into the fight when he noticed me.

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I'd group with ya if I could OP just to cheer ya up :D. I'd think you'd enjoy the comic relief and jest I do whenever I'm in a group.

 

But in all seriousness, I hate people with elitist attitudes and absolutely no patience. Sadly, it's something to be expected if you queue :(.

 

sounds good! shoot me a message sometime <3

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The problem is that if the weakest link is a DPS it can easily be replaced in a few seconds.

 

When I tank a FP HM I ask at the start if it's anyones first time and if they want to watch the story.

The people who do not answer there have no right to watch the storys and I will not explain the bosses to them.

 

When a player accidently adds a group I have no problem with it but if he adds repeatedly from just not being capable to follow me I will initiate a vote kick.

(If you get stuck it's a whole other thing. I sometimes get stuck in the most ridicoulos things. I have never kicked somebody for getting stuck and through that add mobs.)

 

The reason nr. 1 for me to kick people is: People not knowing their role.

A DPS who repeatedly pulls groups is a kicked DPS for me. (1st time: Tell him not to do it again. 2nd time: kick)

 

yeah i got stuck twice, and pulled a group once. so as to why i get kicked for it, idk.

 

and i know my role well, i usually follow the tank. i never pull a group unless its by accident.

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If it's my first time in any given HM, I tell the group right at the start. I know my class and my rotations, but not the specific boss fights. Taking this approach I've never had any problems and someone in the group has always been happy to stop and explain the fights in advance - which saves on the wipes.

 

Secondly, I won't do a HM if I've not done it SM.

 

That said, in the various groups I've enjoyed, everyone has made a rogue pull at some point or another and the group simply turns around, clears it and then gets back on with it, probably trying to skip as much trash as possible. There's rarely an issue with this - everyone makes the odd mistake.

 

Of course I'm on a different server (Progenitor). The more I read in these forums, the more I start to feel that mine is perhaps a more considerate community than some.

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I've had really mixed experiences using GF for HM FP's.

 

I've had people pretty much Insta-kick me without explanation but i've also had frank but friendly chats with my team mates about what isnt working, why and what I need to do to improve.

 

I think the best thing that we can do is find a like-minded guild. That way, you get to know the people you're running with and you can decide amongst yourselves how each run should go regarding story skipping, mob skipping etc.

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yeah i got stuck twice, and pulled a group once. so as to why i get kicked for it, idk.

 

and i know my role well, i usually follow the tank. i never pull a group unless its by accident.

 

I forgot to add one thing.

Communication is key, someone who adds and after the mobs are dead, just writes nothing gets a vote kick from me as well. A small sry is enough for me but something has to be there.

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So this is a bit of a rant:

 

(SHORT VERSION AT BOTTOM)

 

Today i spent a total of 5 hours waiting for flashpoint groups to join and do hard mode stuff.

 

I managed to get into 9 Flashpoint groups and it seems to me i find the few people that should not play games.

 

they are:

A: inconsiderate

B: Ignorant

C: Uncooperative

D: Whiny

 

Now i will describe one story which drew the line for me:

 

I joined a flashpoint group which seemed to be going pretty smooth, but no one seemed to talk and i just got a feeling of awkwardness and tension.

 

they skipped by alot of enemies without telling me which threw me off a bit because ive always tackled every enemy in the way. but it didnt matter much because i was far enough back to react to this. I got caught up on a cliff and they just kept going. Now isnt it common courtesy to help group-mates out?

 

so after getting un-stuck, i rushed to catch up, and i managed to accidently cause an attack on myself and i ran towards my group for help. a person in the group right away said "dont run towards us" now... isnt the whole point of a team effort to help each-other out? so i decided to dis-regard what they were saying and run towards them for help.

 

to shorten, we ended up dying and respawning back to the start. not too far from where we died. two group mates immediately trashed my actions saying "they should force people to play these before doing hardmode". that irked me a bit and i felt bad. another thing that ticked me off, is that no matter what, i like to enjoy the convo-cinematics and i will listen to the characters talk. during this, one anxious groupmate kept spamming "SPACEBAR! HIT THE F****** SPACEBAR!". And after the convo said "they should just remove story stuff from hard mode... saves on time to rush through". pretty ignorant and self-serving, huh?

 

and to finish, i accidentally pulled 3-4 very easy (like 3000 hp) droids over and got yelled at for pulling enemies to them because i needed help. then after that fight, i was voted to be kicked out.

 

 

 

 

 

So since i hit 50 for the first time yesterday, i have attempted to do hard mode flashpoints and never completed one because i keep finding these types of people who are insanely competitive. i have gotten kicked every single time because of things i have no control over. and so what if i want to listen to a convo? im interested and the people can wait like one minute. not that bad.

 

 

SHORT VERSION:

 

Im tired of how stuck-up people are during hard-mode flashpoints. worrying about for fast to get through a convo, or about accidentally pulling a few enemies to the group for help. and i get kicked for all these dumb reasons

 

 

So what im saying here is, do you agree with this arrogant play-style? or do you think there should be more co-operative-ness (i know thats not a word) in these hard-mode flashpoints?

 

i can honestly say i'd like to think people are nicer than this but im about to give up on humanity over this

 

So, basically, you didn't keep up with the group. You then face pulled several packs of mobs, then, because you think your time to be worth more than the 3 others in the group, you sat through every conversation, even though you too have seen them several times. Who's being a) inconsiderate and c) uncooperative now?

 

You also have d) covered by starting this thread.

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So this is a bit of a rant:

 

(SHORT VERSION AT BOTTOM)

 

Today i spent a total of 5 hours waiting for flashpoint groups to join and do hard mode stuff.

 

I managed to get into 9 Flashpoint groups and it seems to me i find the few people that should not play games.

 

they are:

A: inconsiderate

B: Ignorant

C: Uncooperative

D: Whiny

 

Now i will describe one story which drew the line for me:

 

I joined a flashpoint group which seemed to be going pretty smooth, but no one seemed to talk and i just got a feeling of awkwardness and tension.

 

they skipped by alot of enemies without telling me which threw me off a bit because ive always tackled every enemy in the way. but it didnt matter much because i was far enough back to react to this. I got caught up on a cliff and they just kept going. Now isnt it common courtesy to help group-mates out?

 

so after getting un-stuck, i rushed to catch up, and i managed to accidently cause an attack on myself and i ran towards my group for help. a person in the group right away said "dont run towards us" now... isnt the whole point of a team effort to help each-other out? so i decided to dis-regard what they were saying and run towards them for help.

 

to shorten, we ended up dying and respawning back to the start. not too far from where we died. two group mates immediately trashed my actions saying "they should force people to play these before doing hardmode". that irked me a bit and i felt bad. another thing that ticked me off, is that no matter what, i like to enjoy the convo-cinematics and i will listen to the characters talk. during this, one anxious groupmate kept spamming "SPACEBAR! HIT THE F****** SPACEBAR!". And after the convo said "they should just remove story stuff from hard mode... saves on time to rush through". pretty ignorant and self-serving, huh?

 

and to finish, i accidentally pulled 3-4 very easy (like 3000 hp) droids over and got yelled at for pulling enemies to them because i needed help. then after that fight, i was voted to be kicked out.

 

 

 

 

 

So since i hit 50 for the first time yesterday, i have attempted to do hard mode flashpoints and never completed one because i keep finding these types of people who are insanely competitive. i have gotten kicked every single time because of things i have no control over. and so what if i want to listen to a convo? im interested and the people can wait like one minute. not that bad.

 

 

SHORT VERSION:

 

Im tired of how stuck-up people are during hard-mode flashpoints. worrying about for fast to get through a convo, or about accidentally pulling a few enemies to the group for help. and i get kicked for all these dumb reasons

 

 

So what im saying here is, do you agree with this arrogant play-style? or do you think there should be more co-operative-ness (i know thats not a word) in these hard-mode flashpoints?

 

i can honestly say i'd like to think people are nicer than this but im about to give up on humanity over this

 

I admit I myself am getting unreasonably angry when people make pulls by mistake. I try to control myself and not lash out for the first few mistakes but after a while it really gets to you. Any player in the group should learn to follow the tank, attack weakest first, do not break cc's and if the mentioned run is speed should not pull unnecessary mobs or bosses. The worst part is those who tell you that they know encounters but have no clue whatsoever about them. I have had players refuse to use their knockbacks in Darth Malgus because it's a "cheap tactic" and that the intended play should be to knock him back by only using bombs. It can drive you insane. If someone wants to kill X boss, kill bonus boss or watch the story just saying that you want to do as such up front does wonders. I don't mind those that don't skip conversations except in Esseles where they are overused and really makes a big difference. I also don't think it's your fault at all that you got stuck, it happens every so often and I totally sympathize with you on that if someone accidentally pulled a mob heck, 10 mobs, due to being stuck and we wiped I wouldn't mind at all, **** happens. It is refusal to cooperate, refusal to learn and refusal to communicate that ruins flashpoint experience for me.

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w t f? How unpractical can someone get?

 

Wiped once because of that ridiculousness, had to run back and use several bombs with the other guy in the group to get it done. He was badly positioned at start but it was salvageable if this guy wasn't so stuck up with his "no knockbacking mobs down ledges" policy. Obviously ignored after the fp ended.

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If you get vote kicked more than once you should ask yourself what your doing wrong. If you get kicked from every group in a day you should get someone to tell you what your doing wrong. If more than 3 random people tell you your doing everything wrong and you still think everyone else is the ***hole you should quit. You won't enjoy it and everyone else will not enjoy being around you.
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I will admit to my fair share of HM elitism and exasperation with newbies: I tell people to spacebar rather than watching cutscenes, facepalm when someone pulls a skippable trashpack, and prefer speedruns to full clears, sometimes bailing out if I don't feel like doing them and the rest of the group does (I generally play tanks or healers, so this nets me a number of enemies amongst the DPS queueing crowd). I've even been known to /kick people that don't use the proper rotation for their spec (like DPS Shadows using Telekinetic Throw) or are using an explicitly PvP spec in PvE (like the hybrid tank spec for Shadows queuing as either DPS or tank) and, if they don't get kicked, bailing out myself because it perturbs me to be around idiots (I'll generally try to correct them by telling them that they're doing it wrong for numerous reasons that I explicitly point out, but, if they insist on being bullheaded about it because "they read about it online" when I know, for a fact, that the only place they could have read about it was somewhere that had no clue what they were talking about or they misread it or whatever, I've got no problem putting them on ignore and going about my way).

 

However...

 

If someone says that the *beginning* of an HM flashpoint that they don't know what they're doing or respond the affirmative to my start-of-flashpoint query of, "Do we all know what we're doing here?", I'm not going to bail on them just because they're fresh. I will explain the skip path and show them in painstaking detail what they should be doing. I will explain all of the boss fights and, if needed, the proper kill order.

 

If someone tells me that they need instruction *after* they have pulled something that could have been skipped or died on a boss because they screwed up a mechanic or whatever else I could get irate about, I'm going to get irate about it.

 

As a new player in a game where a vast majority of players have already done all of the content such that they could do it in their sleep, it's *your* responsibility to point out that you don't know what you're doing. Very few groups are going to kick you just because you don't know what you're doing in an HM FP (unless it's HM LI and you're both inexperienced *and* under or marginally geared); most will actually attempt to teach you because it's faster than simply finding someone new. This doesn't mean that they're beholden to it just because you're new or that your newness excuses any errors *before* you tell them you're new. Expecting experienced players to patiently teach anyone and everyone they come across on the off chance that they might be new is simply outrageous. A vast majority of players will know exactly how to skip all of the trash packs in HM T5 and how to run the ice path in BoI.

 

Asking for forgiveness is *not* easier than asking for permission. People might get a bit irksome when they learn that they're stuck with a newbie but they're going to get a lot more pissed when the newbie tries to pass themselves off as a proficient player and ends up causing the lot of them more work because the newbie didn't want to admit that they didn't know what they were doing.

 

This same mentality applies to watching the cut scenes: if you want to watch them, tell people *at the start* that you plan on watching them. If people are prepared to sit there waiting and they know who they're waiting on, they're much less likely to get pissed off about it. Of course, if it's Esseles and everyone else wants to just get it over with because you can just see the story by taking 10 minutes of your time to solo it and the cutscenes end up doubling the time it takes to finish the rutting place, it's not really conducive to group happiness to ignore everyone else.

 

The best advice that anyone can possibly give you is to tell people about your lack of experience and/or desire to watch the cutscenes right from the start *especially* if you're asked, that way, people don't expect anything that they're not getting and they know *right away* that they should be teaching/helping you so as to avoid screw ups. If you don't tell anyone about your lack of experience or desire to watch the story, don't get indignant just because you couldn't see what to do close enough or because you haven't seen this story before and they were screaming at you to hurry up; you're causing more work for them and *aren't* the average player explicitly because you're new.

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thing is anyone is fully capable of taking some initiative and learning the basics of the fight /fp before ever stepping foot in it, if u feel u need the help.

 

people telling you to do SM fp's are morons, no one runs SM FP's for anything above red reaper, cept maybe FE for the hk piece

 

BUT there are plenty of videos out there and walkthrough's that will give u a basic understanding of the fights so you are better prepared going into it.

 

 

your experience you posted is meh I guess, personally I wouldnt of vote kicked u for agro'ing mob packs, but I do think you're the one being inconsiderate and selfish by complaining that people are getting mad at you for not skipping the cutscenes. Most people have done the FP's so many times they can probably recite all the conversations verbatim, I know I can.

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The one thing I try (not always successfully, but I do try) is to be friendly to other people while in a pug.

 

I used to be a new player and was terrible during my first attempts at HM FPs. I had the good luck to group with some patient players that helped me out, explained mechanics, game me tips and answered questions. It was this experience that got me out of my "single player" shell in SW:TOR.

 

Because of these people, I've tried to pay it forward and be kind to others as well.

 

It seems to me that it has paid off, as most of the pug runs I do generally go well.

 

Also, I've had many groups where the other players are happy and chatty, do a little RP in the group chat window during the FP and basically have a good time.

 

@DSpectre I hope you run into some groups like this as you go forwards doing end-game content, because in my personal opinion, it is the most fun you could have in this game.

 

/2cents

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Oh, forgot to add this. You admitted that you wiped the group due to you pulling trash that everyone else skipped.
The grouped wiped, because they were not a group. Sorry in a HMFP I want the people that accidentally pulled to run to me. They get to me, they will live and the mob they pulled will die. Someone pulls by accident I am running towards them. They better be hitting defensive cooldowns and running towards me. I do this dps or healer, only difference with my healer I bring up the rear so any inadvertent pull is in front of me, on dps I stick right behind the tank unless someone says they are new, then I will be right in front of them waiting when needed for them to catch up.

 

Mobs in HM FP are a joke outside a few in LI HM and Koan, so someone pulling one and running up the group is no big deal, provided the group is more interest in killing stuff than typing insult at whoever accidentally pulled.

Edited by mikebevo
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I have both good and bad experience in groups. Though I've never used the group finder because of my most recent bad experiences.

 

I was in a group going for the HK pieces. At the beginning of the FP I clearly stated I haven't run either FP ever. I stated so because I view that as the common courtesy to everyone else so then they know I have no clue and hopefully have at least a sliver more patience with me. Now one player was great. He (or she) told us to follow him /her and then to wait before starting the one fight. Explained completely what to do. All was good. Apologized for any mistakes I made along the way. All was fine. We were doing Foundry in Hard mode. Got to the Revan fight, and another player who also stated they'd never run the FP ended up swearing at me. I was swore at for not healing him/her with a move that has a 5 minute cool down and was just used to revive another member of the group. After that this player wouldn't stop with the elitist type attitude. The other person however seen what we were doing wrong and instructed us on how to correct it. We did, and ended up finishing the FP with ease after that.

 

I've had other negative experiences. But this one was the reminder for why I just don't bother trying to do Flashpoints and heroics. Yes, I am willing to look up videos to see how to do things, and I do try my best while in group play & am willing to listen to advice or polite instruction for improvement or correction. But I don't play the game to be subjected to the arrogant attitudes and abuse. My solution is to bypass the heroics and flashpoints.

Edited by AngelDarkchylde
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If you're getting kicked from multiple groups it's time to look at what you're doing to piss off so many people instead of blaming everybody else. There's definitely no shortage of jerks in this game, but the vast majority of people are willing to help or at least put up with a newer player who hasn't done the content before if they state so beforehand. If you say nothing people will assume you know how to skip trash/bosses and will spacebar through convo's because that's how 95% of hm fp's go.
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i did not read all 5 pages but here's my 2c...

 

Communication is key.

 

- If you are new to an instance (be it you ran SM a lot and it's your first HM, or you've never done the instance at all), you NEED to communicate that to your group. As a player who has done every HM FP at least a dozen times (as tank, healer, and DPS) I have seen it all. But what annoys me is when someone is new and does not inform the group.

 

- if you are an experienced veteran just there for the comms, do not assume everyone else is like you. Please specify that you would like to do a speed run and space bar through the conversation clips. On the flipside if you REALLY want to watch the clips specify that too. EITHER WAY, majority rules, if the group decides to watch the clips do not spam SPACEBAR NAU, and if the group decides to skip do not slow everyone else down, please space bar. If you cannot abide by the majority, please leave the group or asked to be kicked. It is really annoying when a consensus is supposed to have been reached and the lone dissenter does his own thing out of spite.

 

Basically, if you are dead set to do FPs a certain way, let your wishes be known. 90% of the time the rest of the group is more than willing to oblige. If the group falls into the 10%, then either accept what the group decides or please leave the group.

 

-

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So this is a bit of a rant:

 

(SHORT VERSION AT BOTTOM)

 

Today i spent a total of 5 hours waiting for flashpoint groups to join and do hard mode stuff.

 

I managed to get into 9 Flashpoint groups and it seems to me i find the few people that should not play games.

 

they are:

A: inconsiderate

B: Ignorant

C: Uncooperative

D: Whiny

 

Now i will describe one story which drew the line for me:

 

I joined a flashpoint group which seemed to be going pretty smooth, but no one seemed to talk and i just got a feeling of awkwardness and tension.

 

they skipped by alot of enemies without telling me which threw me off a bit because ive always tackled every enemy in the way. but it didnt matter much because i was far enough back to react to this. I got caught up on a cliff and they just kept going. Now isnt it common courtesy to help group-mates out?

 

so after getting un-stuck, i rushed to catch up, and i managed to accidently cause an attack on myself and i ran towards my group for help. a person in the group right away said "dont run towards us" now... isnt the whole point of a team effort to help each-other out? so i decided to dis-regard what they were saying and run towards them for help.

 

to shorten, we ended up dying and respawning back to the start. not too far from where we died. two group mates immediately trashed my actions saying "they should force people to play these before doing hardmode". that irked me a bit and i felt bad. another thing that ticked me off, is that no matter what, i like to enjoy the convo-cinematics and i will listen to the characters talk. during this, one anxious groupmate kept spamming "SPACEBAR! HIT THE F****** SPACEBAR!". And after the convo said "they should just remove story stuff from hard mode... saves on time to rush through". pretty ignorant and self-serving, huh?

 

and to finish, i accidentally pulled 3-4 very easy (like 3000 hp) droids over and got yelled at for pulling enemies to them because i needed help. then after that fight, i was voted to be kicked out.

 

 

 

 

 

So since i hit 50 for the first time yesterday, i have attempted to do hard mode flashpoints and never completed one because i keep finding these types of people who are insanely competitive. i have gotten kicked every single time because of things i have no control over. and so what if i want to listen to a convo? im interested and the people can wait like one minute. not that bad.

 

 

SHORT VERSION:

 

Im tired of how stuck-up people are during hard-mode flashpoints. worrying about for fast to get through a convo, or about accidentally pulling a few enemies to the group for help. and i get kicked for all these dumb reasons

 

 

So what im saying here is, do you agree with this arrogant play-style? or do you think there should be more co-operative-ness (i know thats not a word) in these hard-mode flashpoints?

 

i can honestly say i'd like to think people are nicer than this but im about to give up on humanity over this

 

At any point prior to starting the Hard Mode did you inform the group you were completely new to the FP? If you did not you are partly at fault.

 

Furthermore if you like the cutscenes thats great. I fully support your decision to watch them... IN STORY MODE! These are Hard Mode FPs. people are there for gear, BH comms, or both. They have watched these cutscenes 10,000 times and have no desire to watch them over, and over, and over again just because you "like" them.

Edited by Brittaany_Banks
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SHORT VERSION:

 

Im tired of how stuck-up people are during hard-mode flashpoints. worrying about for fast to get through a convo, or about accidentally pulling a few enemies to the group for help. and i get kicked for all these dumb reasons

 

 

So what im saying here is, do you agree with this arrogant play-style? or do you think there should be more co-operative-ness (i know thats not a word) in these hard-mode flashpoints?

 

i can honestly say i'd like to think people are nicer than this but im about to give up on humanity over this

Hold on a sec. Honestly, it sounds like you (without meaning to) put yourself in a bad position that caused the group a lot of grief. Maybe they overreacted, were rude, who knows. I can't tell cause I wasn't there, however, do yourself a favor and run these fps in SM. You'll learn the fps, watching the cutscenes will be more tolerated, and you'll pick up some gear to bolster that hp. THEN move on to HMs.

 

And please, let your group know you're new and don't know the fps when you start. Most people are decent about showing you how it all goes if you let them know up front.

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Ahhhh the skipping of HM fp's saga. I couldnt care less if someone wants to read the dialogue, I simply spacebar and wait for them to catch up. These days people worry about such insignificant stuff....but anywhos in regards to rude people in fp's I role a healer for my main and I can assure you that you wouldn't be left behind if you were trying to get through while I was grouped with you.

 

Oh and I wish forum names revealed peeps ingame names so I could addignore the elitist pr*cks in this thread lol. Looks to me like game is very srs bsns for them.......

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