If anyone has tanked in WoW they should kind of understand where I'm coming from here. For those that don't, in WoW each of the bosses were 3 levels higher than the player, and at 3 levels above NPC's had the ability to land a Crushing Blow (Crit) on players, in order to prevent this the Tanks had to get their Defense chance to 8% (the Crit chance of NPC's were 5% + 1% per level).

 

I'm probably only bothered by this because I was killed by a stray crit in TFB tonight (10k crit from Operator IX), but shouldn't there be a talent that reduces the chance of tanks getting crit by NPCs to make them uncrittable, or is it simply not too big of an issue to the player base?

 

I feel it would make things a bit easier on the healers and make damage more consistent, but I'm not about to quit the game because of this.

Bosses in PvE don't have a crit chance in SWToR. At least according to every combat log I've seen...

 

Usually a huge hit like that is either intentional (and on a slow swing timer) or a mechanic you are missing.

That is indeed a mechanic. Operator IX will randomly attack someone with Disinfection after the Black Obtuse phase if someone has run through a wrong circle (even after it has been deactivated). Be glad that it hit you, it usually one-shots a non-tank with around 19k (and it mostly targets a non-tank). Disinfection is also his normal attack on the tank but does a lot less damage (can often be dodged).

 

^ HM

 

On SM I'm not sure how much of an issue it is but could be the same with less damage.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Darth_Dreselus

It appears you're right. When the number flew up on the screen it looked like a crit, when it was Disinfection hitting me three times, once for 2k which was shielded, and twice for 4.9k.

 

And going through the logs it seems I've never been crit either. Disregard this, though I do wish their Floating numbers didn't make grouped hits look like crits...

To the best of my knowledge, bosses have zero crit chance. It's hard to tell though, since a halfway-decent tank isn't going to allow a boss to hit a non-tank for any substantial period of time, and any crit chance that a boss *might* have is completely washed off the table by a tank's shield chance. So technically, we don't really know boss crit chance, we just have educated guesses. All we know for certain is that if bosses can crit, it would need to be at a vanishingly low chance (otherwise we would see it in the logs in the form of deflated shield chance).

any crit chance that a boss *might* have is completely washed off the table by a tank's shield chance.

 

Crit chance takes absolute priority on the 2nd roll of the 2 roll system (Crit>Shield>Hit). *Any* crit chance would show up in logs, which is why we know that it doesn't show up.

Bosses in PvE don't have a crit chance in SWToR. At least according to every combat log I've seen...

 

Usually a huge hit like that is either intentional (and on a slow swing timer) or a mechanic you are missing.

 

We had our shadow tank crit for 39k on bonethrasher, there is no way a boss would hit a player that hard.

We had our shadow tank crit for 39k on bonethrasher, there is no way a boss would hit a player that hard.

 

I would love to see that parse...

That happens all the time. It appears to happen if you are right at the start of his cleave or if you have the debuff from being pounded.

That happens all the time. It appears to happen if you are right at the start of his cleave or if you have the debuff from being pounded.

 

Actually, it happens only if you have the pounded debuff. I've seen hits that large myself, and it wasn't a crit.

 

There are some boss abilities that hit very, very hard without being crits. For example, getting hit by Kephess with the Touch debuff will insta-nuke you, failing to cleanse Doom will hit you for 25 million (also non-crit). Bosses have some very, very high damage abilities, even without critting.

Crit chance takes absolute priority on the 2nd roll of the 2 roll system (Crit>Shield>Hit). *Any* crit chance would show up in logs, which is why we know that it doesn't show up.

 

I have yet to see an actual expression for the two-roll system. Obviously, that sort of thing is important for both accuracy/defense and crit/shield. Do you have the math for that on-hand?

I have yet to see an actual expression for the two-roll system. Obviously, that sort of thing is important for both accuracy/defense and crit/shield. Do you have the math for that on-hand?

 

It is explained in words here: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-364.html

 

Any formula that calculates mitigation will follow the two-roll system, although typically ignoring the crit chance exception. I have never seen a crit in any PvE boss encounter - I *have* seen crits on trash however. In PvP, it's rare for anyone to be wearing a shield, and attacks that can be shielded are relatively rare, and shield rating won't be stacked high even if they are wearing a shield, so it only comes into play when someone has an elevated crit chance. E.g. recklessness, laze target, towering rage. I believe the crits on trash are because of these special abilities.

I checked to see how the crit > shield > hit priority order had been determined for the second combat roll. Apparently it was a Georg Zoller post in the beta forums.

 

Long gone but you can find the quote here and here. I found it via Taugrim's blog.

 

Combat Results:

 

We use a two-roll system for determining combat results.

 

First is a hit roll, accuracy versus defense, and if the attacker misses then no damage occurs. If the attacker rolled poorly enough to miss even discounting the target's defense then a "Miss" result occurs. If he misses because of the defense then the result varies based on the attack type, the cover state of the target, and the target's equipped weapons. All the possible results - Dodge, Parry, Deflect, Resist, Cover - are mathematically the same, but they can trigger different effects and are visualized in different ways.

 

If the attacker hits, then a second roll is made with the crit chance of the attacker versus the shield chance of the target. If a Crit or a Shield occurs then the damage is adjusted up or down (based on Surge/Absorb), and then it goes through to the armor and damage resistance. A critical can never be shielded, and an attacker with a high enough crit chance can push the target's shield chance off the table. It shouldn't be possible to get your passive crit chance high enough to start pushing off the target's shield chance, but there are short-duration buffs that push these chances high enough to come into conflict.

 

On Diminishing Returns:

 

All of the percentage-based "ratings" on gear have diminishing returns. The design intent is that all tanks will want a mix of Shield, Absorb and Defense ratings, with the "perfect" ratios varied by spec and play style.

Edited October 29, 2012 by _gideon

Oh I'm very familiar with the English explanations of the two-roll system in TOR, I simply have yet to see an actual, verified formal expression which takes it into account.