10% of the time, Sage DPS are top DPS ALL of the time.

 

Sort of, not really.

 

OK, let's ignore half of the fights, this totally works.

 

A picture journey:

http://s3.mmoguildsites.com/s3/gallery_images/588450/original.png?1370010986 My Boy Elidhu, all up top and stuff

http://s3.mmoguildsites.com/s3/gallery_images/588447/original.png?1370010976 Elidhu again probably unleashing an AOE like hell on top of all 3 council members to inflate numbers!

http://s3.mmoguildsites.com/s3/gallery_images/588449/original.png?1370010983 The only one with sages on top, yours truly. Obviously I just stood in the middle killing adds.

http://s3.mmoguildsites.com/s3/gallery_images/588448/original.png?1370010979 That is me under the 8 snipers and gunslingers - and they said balance spec had no burst!

http://s3.mmoguildsites.com/s3/gallery_images/588446/original.png?1370010973 Boom, yeah that's right, me under 9 gunslingers/snipers - second most viable class trophy!

http://s3.mmoguildsites.com/s3/gallery_images/588445/original.png?1370010965 Me above Fenrir because he is a noob (is that calling out? please don't ban me).

 

Fights I don't consider worth comparison:

TFB in TFB - I like to fall asleep when im kiting spit

All the fights in S+V besides cartel warlords and operations chief - because it doesn't prove my point. Wait, what was my point? (But seriously, I don't think Syrak/Olok are worth comparing because it is more about just keeping your DPS high at all times rather unnecessarily - Dash/Titan/Thrasher sages are just way below for some reason - personally I always click for dash, no ideas on titan, trasher not sure either but I'll include these in analysis below).

 

OK, serious analysis from torparse:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgCWcFAbOaZwdEpkVjVLNm1NeTRDSDh4Zkd1YnFtclE&usp=sharing

 

Summary:

This doesn't actually prove anything, I'm not really sure why I went through this exercise.

 

Note to bioware: You shouldn't really infer anything from this (except maybe slingers are OP, but you knew that already).

/golfclap

(except maybe slingers are OP, but you knew that already).

I'm going to pull the old "vanilla wow rogue" excuse... My class isn't op, the good players all just rolled gunslingers and snipers!

 

http://s3.mmoguildsites.com/s3/gallery_images/588445/original.png?1370010965 Me above Fenrir because he is a noob (is that calling out? please don't ban me).

Thanks, saving this image for future use

Edited May 31, 2013 by namesaretough

meh ... I still top my meters Nibbon ... tell those snipers and marauders to stop cheating with Orbital strike and quad power procs (fixed now). Hard to compete with orbital strike when there are 10 adds and we can only hit 5 of them at a time. I find the easiest way to beat my sniper ally is to extricate him when he goes to cast orbital strike.

Thanks, saving this image for future use

 

Don't forget the operator IX one too, technically I top everyone on that one ;p

 

meh ... I still top my meters Nibbon ... tell those snipers and marauders to stop cheating with Orbital strike and quad power procs (fixed now). Hard to compete with orbital strike when there are 10 adds and we can only hit 5 of them at a time. I find the easiest way to beat my sniper ally is to extricate him when he goes to cast orbital strike.

 

Excellent idea, thanks for the suggestion.

 

Being serious here though, if you want to draw a conclusion - I do think sages ARE actually viable. I agree, there are great players playing slingers - their numbers are inflated by their AoE, a bit. However, I think I am playing at the peak of my class and can't really touch my two best slingers on most fights. My highest DPS sentinel is usually ahead of me as well. I certainly hold my own and am happy with where sages are at.

Don't forget the operator IX one too, technically I top everyone on that one ;p

 

 

But that means you beat me, which means I never want to see it again

Is there actually this overwhelming opinion that sages/sorcs aren't viable, by the way? I keep hearing this about different classes and I'm always surprised by it. I hear sages aren't viable (clearly not true, look at all the sages in groups clearing content and ranking high on torparse), vanguards aren't viable (we have 2 vanguards, they can keep up with our gunslingers on fights without lots of AOE/chances to double dot), scoundrels aren't viable (left over from 1.x, I suppose), guardians aren't viable (again, there are a lot clearing content, ranking high on fights, etc), shadows aren't viable (probably because of their low dummy numbers, although they gain the most in a live fight)... I just don't get it.

I was with you until I saw shadows... YOU CRAZY!?!

We've already determined you're still living in 1.7, just retire.

Is there actually this overwhelming opinion that sages/sorcs aren't viable, by the way? I keep hearing this about different classes and I'm always surprised by it. I hear sages aren't viable (clearly not true, look at all the sages in groups clearing content and ranking high on torparse), vanguards aren't viable (we have 2 vanguards, they can keep up with our gunslingers on fights without lots of AOE/chances to double dot), scoundrels aren't viable (left over from 1.x, I suppose), guardians aren't viable (again, there are a lot clearing content, ranking high on fights, etc), shadows aren't viable (probably because of their low dummy numbers, although they gain the most in a live fight)... I just don't get it.

 

Is that a real question? Yeah I like sage dps in my raid but I wouldn't take more than two. I also like at least two sage healers, so that's a lot of sages. Viable.

We've already determined you're still living in 1.7, just retire.

 

You cut me deep.

Is that a real question? Yeah I like sage dps in my raid but I wouldn't take more than two. I also like at least two sage healers, so that's a lot of sages. Viable.

 

If you had 4 or 5 sage dps who matched your numbers on every fight, would you bench all but one (+you makes 2) of them because of their class?

If you had 4 or 5 sage dps who matched your numbers on every fight, would you bench all but one (+you makes 2) of them because of their class?

 

Depends on how many gunslingers I have :-)

 

Plus a couple sentinels, at least, so I can cycle them in and boost finals numbers.

http://s3.mmoguildsites.com/s3/gallery_images/588445/original.png?1370010965 Me above Fenrir because he is a noob (is that calling out? please don't ban me).

 

 

I am going to have to start stacking sentinels in my group

 

 

I'm going to pull the old "vanilla wow rogue" excuse... My class isn't op, the good players all just rolled gunslingers and snipers!

 

+1

 

I was with you until I saw shadows... YOU CRAZY!?!

 

Old Troll is Old, no?

Is that a real question? Yeah I like sage dps in my raid but I wouldn't take more than two. I also like at least two sage healers, so that's a lot of sages. Viable.

 

I agree with this as the more balance/madness specs you have (sage/shadow/sorcerer/assassin) the lower each ones dps becomes. This happens because of how Force in Balance and Deathfield stacks work with other classes DoT's.

 

The more Madness/Balance specs you have the more Mind Crush or Crushing Darkness steals the stacks from your other DoTs. MC/CD are the weakest damage per hit DoTs we have and they are the ones that tick most often, once per second. If you have 2 Madness/Balance specs in your raid the FiB/DF stacks will be gone within an average of 5-6 seconds. This would leave both players with ~10 seconds of unmodified DoT damage.

 

This problem is a lot worse with 3+ in the raid. It is also a lot worse if you have a TK/Lightning Sorc in the group stealing stacks with their lower damage DoTs. Sure MC/CD damage would be extra high, but our overall damage becomes lower.

Please delete thread they can't know we're fine more buffs plz.

 

 

EDIT: Why is 16HM kephess dps so low? Weird

 

 

Also to all of you sorc/sages that only beat me after using the derp relics :p:p:p:p:p:p

Edited May 31, 2013 by JDotter