Dev Post EricMusco Posted June 9, 2017 Dev Post Share Posted June 9, 2017 Hey folks, Below you will find the first set of changes that are planned for Game Update 5.3. Here is a statement from the Combat team on what their plans are for Hatred and Serenity. With the Class changes in 5.3, we wanted to address several balance issues. One Discipline that we found to be lagging behind its target DPS output was the Hatred Assassin / Serenity Shadow. We changed several skills for this Discipline to increase its DPS output. We wanted to help Hatred / Serenity shine at what it is supposed to be known for: high sustained melee damage. So we increased the damage bonuses granted by Deathmark / Force Suppression and Fulguration / Rebounding Force to boost the DoT damage for the Discipline – increasing the periodic damage it deals and its overall DPS output. We also wanted Hatred / Serenity to be better at finishing off enemy targets, so we increased the effectiveness of Inevitable Demise / Aching Mind (which helps to boost its overall DPS output as well). Finally, we wanted to make Force regeneration for Hatred / Serenity a bit more consistent and increase the Force cost efficiency of Leeching Strike / Serenity Strike, so we made some adjustments to Leeching Hunger / Serene Poise and the amount of Force restored by Fulguration / Rebounding Force to achieve these goals. This should give players of Hatred / Serenity a smoother and more reliable source of Force regeneration. In 5.3, players of Hatred / Serenity should find that their DPS output potential has increased and that their Force regeneration is a bit less random and more manageable. With that in mind, here are the exact changes currently planned for 5.3 in July (subject to change, of course): Assassin Hatred Increased Deathmark's periodic damage boost from 10% to 15%Increased Fulguration's damage bonus for Creeping Terror from 10% to 15%Fulguration restores 3 Force (down from 5) when Lightning Charge deals damageIncreased Inevitable Demise's low health damage bonus from 15% to 30%In addition to its previous effects, Leeching Hunger now restores 4 Force for each of your damaging periodic effects on a target damaged by your Leeching Strike Clarified the tooltip for Crackling Charge Shadow Serenity Increased Force Suppression's periodic damage boost from 10% to 15%Increased Rebounding Force's damage bonus for Sever Force from 10% to 15%Rebounding Force restores 3 Force (down from 5) when Force Technique deals damageIncreased Aching Mind's low health damage bonus from 15% to 30%In addition to its previous effects, Serene Poise now restores 4 Force for each of your damaging periodic effects on a target damaged by your Serenity Strike Clarified the tooltip for Force Focus Please let us know what you think of these changes! Post your thoughts below, thanks everyone. -eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 The changes look promising at first glance. Reserving this for further comments as I look over it in more detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Very impressed with the incremental increase...it seems very reasonable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Hmm, the changes are actually making me consider re-rolling a Sith Assassin in the Hatred spec... very promising outlook! Wished they did the same for Sorcerers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XhrisShan Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 It's great that you're posting your reasoning for making these changes. Great work, and please keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XhrisShan Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Wished they did the same for Sorcerers though. Madness/Balance is one of the other specs they're prioritizing changes for. The following is each Class/Discipline we are currently looking into changing. By Friday, we will begin posting in-depth threads on exactly what is happening to each Discipline. This will include whether they are being buffed or nerfed and why, along with the specific planned changes. These threads will get posted over a few weeks. Here is the current summer list: Sorc and SageMadness/Balance Edited June 9, 2017 by XhrisShan Screwed up quoting Musco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrningada Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Do you make only passive changes? Or will there be changes in utilities and skills for other classes ? merc dps is fine, it's just DcDs that are OP, same with sorc healers - their hps is fine and it is roaming mend and 3 cc escapes that make them OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAT_EPIC_GUY Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Damage buffs are nice but hatred survivability is still an issue for PvE. This spec has no AoE DR and doesn't have a lot of passive DR like deception does which makes it prone to massive damage spikes in a lot of tougher PvE content. I know this is all subject to change and nothing is final but I feel you should look into this specs defensive cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthanimus Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 The dot spread needs addressing, its too narrow, the issue is FiB/death field should spread dots (as it did) this would make it very attractive to PvPers. It fell out of favor quite a lot over the years due to FiB and death field no longer spreading dots as the sage/sorc equivalent does, then reducing the AoE of the spread, some consistency please. The increased overall mobility on classes and abilities in recent expansions means that a wider dot spread AoE is more than needed for PvP. Overall not bad changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 So I presume there won't be a chance we'll be seing Force Lightning returning to Sith Assassins in a more mobile form? I still think the ability shouldn't have been removed, instead we should have been given the choice to pick an utility that would allow Sith Assassins to cast Force Lightning while moving and have like a "slow down" effect on the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americanaussie Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Looks great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigOnXD Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 now make deathfield 30m again and it would be great:o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellhog Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 One thing I'd love is if it could be changed where other Inquisitor dot's do not use up your own Deathmarks. This would help in boss fights where a Sorc healer for example is maintaining affliction on the target. It's going to be a DPS loss to the raid group for that affliction tick to take the last deathmark over the sin's Eradicate tick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I am a bit dissapointed with the way you chose to address the Disciplines problems to be honest. I'm glad to see you aren't changing anything on the defensive front, but purely buffing the DoTs by that much could very well mean a repeat of 2.8 and 3.0 events where it just absolutely annihilated entire groups in PvP. The thing about buffing DoT damage is that it's effects are exponential the more targets are around. I do hope you account for that. I don't want to shoot down the whole thing just yet because I want to see this tested first, but these are my concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kismetization Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Damage buffs are nice but hatred survivability is still an issue for PvE. This spec has no AoE DR and doesn't have a lot of passive DR like deception does which makes it prone to massive damage spikes in a lot of tougher PvE content. I know this is all subject to change and nothing is final but I feel you should look into this specs defensive cooldowns. I agree with Mac here. Hatred needed a performance buff but survivability is still a critical issue. I hope you consider looking at ways to bring hatred's survivability in line with deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopAceOfEarth Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Damage buffs are nice but hatred survivability is still an issue for PvE. This spec has no AoE DR and doesn't have a lot of passive DR like deception does which makes it prone to massive damage spikes in a lot of tougher PvE content. I know this is all subject to change and nothing is final but I feel you should look into this specs defensive cooldowns. Speaking purely from a PvE Standpoint: Yes, a baseline 30% DR for AOE should be the minimum and not tied to the 45s AOE taunt, swap it to the same thing that infiltration/deception has its on. How about some sort of 2-3% DR per dot that is actively ticking with a cap of 1 per different ability. 4-9% mostly constant would bring it to at least the bottom of the other classes DR, as it stands you take too much damage in the spec in PvE and your heals don't line up with when you need it. Also add 2 meter to death field / force in balance so we can double press the button on revan core and don't have to place it or fall down. Edited June 9, 2017 by TopAceOfEarth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I agree with Mac here. Hatred needed a performance buff but survivability is still a critical issue. I hope you consider looking at ways to bring hatred's survivability in line with deception. There is absolutely no way that Hatred should be challenging Deception (which is currently by far the most survivable melee spec) at survivability. Like I said, Hatred should be a glass-cannon. As long as you are just taking a lot of damage and may require a certain degree of "babysitting" by the healers at key moments it's fine. Only thing is core mechanics need to be survivable, but I believe that given the Classwide defensives that is entirely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seterade Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) I main hatred assassin, I posted this suggestion in the PvP forum. Hatred assassin: "assassinate grants a 10% def buff for 6 seconds" pls... our defence need some love. Edited June 9, 2017 by Seterade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthCognusSion Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 There is absolutely no way that Hatred should be challenging Deception (which is currently by far the most survivable melee spec) at survivability. Like I said, Hatred should be a glass-cannon. As long as you are just taking a lot of damage and may require a certain degree of "babysitting" by the healers at key moments it's fine. Only thing is core mechanics need to be survivable, but I believe that given the Classwide defensives that is entirely fine. Have you tried to heal a hatred sin in say NiM Brontes burn? They take a ridiculous amount of damage. Not having AoE dr on all dps is just stupid at this point and is holding some specs back. I don't know why they haven't given it to all dps specs in some way or another at this point. They could even do it for assassins like they have the insulation utility and slap it on shapeless spirit. If you are in deception or hatred you get 30% AoE dr in addition to 30% stun dr. This way you don't break Darkness again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyrkverse Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I think it should have a permanent 30 % AoE dmg reduction like Deception but that's probably where it should end. It should not be as sturdy as Deception. Glass cannon is fine (as long as it's a true cannon) just make it reinforced glass that doesn't break by looking at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Have you tried to heal a hatred sin in say NiM Brontes burn? They take a ridiculous amount of damage. Not having AoE dr on all dps is just stupid at this point and is holding some specs back. I don't know why they haven't given it to all dps specs in some way or another at this point. They could even do it for assassins like they have the insulation utility and slap it on shapeless spirit. If you are in deception or hatred you get 30% AoE dr in addition to 30% stun dr. This way you don't break Darkness again. AoE DR is no big deal either way. We could have that. But none of this X% added Base/Rotational ability DR nonsense. But to answer your question.. no I have not tried that. Because playing Hatred on Brontes Nightmare is just plain dumb sorry to say. Nobody even did that in 2.8 when it was in a damage league of it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthCognusSion Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 AoE DR is no big deal either way. We could have that. But none of this X% added Base/Rotational ability DR nonsense. But to answer your question.. no I have not tried that. Because playing Hatred on Brontes Nightmare is just plain dumb sorry to say. Nobody even did that in 2.8 when it was in a damage league of it's own. It was an example to illustrate a point, but whatever. I'm not sure I understand why you are so against passive dr in the tree like Deception. What separates those classes is burst vs dot. I don't know where the idea that Hatred needs to be a glass cannon came from, unless it is just your personal philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josephxp Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Good the heath leeching boost should help, i expect something simillar to happen with Madness spec sorc and its jedi sage counterpart because the life drain was mediocre before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) The buffs seem too weak to make hatred viable in PvE. I dont see how these changes will put it in par with Lethality or Annihilation, not cuz the damage is lacking (probably still is) but the survivability is not there. This makes no difference at all in PvP. All in all, this is not much useful. Considering that this took 7 month I would give you guys an F. The discipline will remain not viable. Why would I play this in any game mode over Annihilation or Vengeance (lethality as well in PvE)? Edited June 9, 2017 by Ottoattack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) It was an example to illustrate a point, but whatever. I'm not sure I understand why you are so against passive dr in the tree like Deception. What separates those classes is burst vs dot. I don't know where the idea that Hatred needs to be a glass cannon came from, unless it is just your personal philosophy. Because you can't have the best of every world at the same time by the very definition of balance. And like I already said, Assassin base class and Utilities offer more than enough to survive key points in nearly every fight. It's not a bad thing that you might be forced to play Deception for one or two bosses just so you won't die. AoE reduction similar to what is already in place for other Disciplines is fine. Other than that, we don't need it. Anyone that thinks we do doesn't know how to be mindful of their own ability/cooldown usage. But by all means, push survivability buffs. I always wanted to see if I could beat my 64-0 winstreak in 3.0's soloranked preseason. Edited June 9, 2017 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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