You mean the way classes were slightly nerfed right when the new augments came out? And oddly the slight improvement new augments gave put people back to where they were before the nerf. And when enough people are in 252/258 gear, Bioware will suddenly discover that classes are slightly overperforming over their projected metrics, classes will be nerfed again, and everything somehow end up exactly the same.

I sincerely hope there will be no new class nerfs in light of the 252 and 258 gear. There is just so much negativity and criticism already that I wouldn't want to imagine what would happen if Bioware would announce they were going to do class nerfs.

Because not everyone is going to have that 252 ot 258 gear. Potential class nerfs would impact them as well.

I pointed out the power creep issue before this expansion was an actual thing, where are the "but NiM gods must require new gear!!" Crowd?

I pointed out the super grindfest not being fun for most people, just to get told grindfests were the only reason people stayed playing in content droughts.

I pointed out the stupidity in scrapping a system that took 2 years to get to work properly for an untested super grindfest that is designed to keep people playing that would in fact chase people off.

This is all exactly how i said it would be before it ever went live, and everyone was saying i was exaggerating or making much ado about nothing. Seriously, where was this uproar before it went live? Theres no chance of massive changes in the near future. Consider how long it took them to get GC to a tolerable level. Musco et al listen to only one thing - your money.

You mean the way classes were slightly nerfed right when the new augments came out? And oddly the slight improvement new augments gave put people back to where they were before the nerf. And when enough people are in 252/258 gear, Bioware will suddenly discover that classes are slightly overperforming over their projected metrics, classes will be nerfed again, and everything somehow end up exactly the same.

Based on your assumption (which I've already pointed out is flawed) that overperforming isn't the projected metric. Also what's your saying is overly-simplistic. It omits (1) how grindy the new gear is and thus a lot harder to do than getting to 248, and (2) that we're deeper into 5.0 and more nerfing is more unpopular and has less benefits from their point of view and (3) the reasons for the nerfs.

It omits (1) how grindy the new gear is and thus a lot harder to do than getting to 248.

Oh, so now suddenly there is a bigger grind than with previous content. But when I said it, you called it a delusion. But when you say it, it's fine. And you called me a hypocrite

Let your initial idea for the 5.10 gear changes go, there is no merit in buckling down in your belief that you are correct or that this is what the playerbase needs. Because it isn't, this isn't what the players want or need.

I like the 5.10 system more than GC to be honest. I dont have to grind to 300 (took like forever at the beginning), I can plan with alts what piece I want to get and I finally have some use for the UCs.

With GC I had to grind for weeks and pray to RNGesus.

Now I "only" grind 1 tuesday - for 6 weeks = in total maybe 18 hours. Now I have 3 chars (same class) on max gear.

GC took way more time

(PS: I only play healer - min-maxing is no problem there. I can Imagine that other roles have more problems though.)

They've really left very little viable pathways for people to get gear if they are not interested in doing group activity. At least with GC, I could grind heroics or play flashpoints or bring alts through the story to earn CXP for the crates, and the crates gave UCs. RNG could be overcome by disintegrating the items for UCs. It might have been slow, and far slower than other ways of gearing, but it could still be done.

With 5.10, the only way I have to get new gear is to do the weekly 10-daily mission grind on one planet. I can dissolve repeat items for UCs, but considering that each piece of 252 gear costs at least 2000 UCs, it's too expensive to be feasible. There's no other way to get the crystals, and the cost of crafting the gear - 28 CMTs per piece, mats found only in a single NiM - is also untenable.

So it becomes a situation where all one can do is walk away and not bother even trying for the 252s or 258s. I don't need it for the story content and since they've made getting the gear so arduous, I don't care to try for it even for fun.

I think its pretty safe to say that the majority of players do not dislike and/or feel the ossus gearing system is bad. There may be a few vocal players who convinced their friends that its a bad system, but the overall consensus does not indicate one feeling significantly over another.

You're stating your opinion like it's a fact.

WHY do you think you know what the overall consensus is? HOW can you know what it is?

The majority of players who don't like the system won't be on the forums or in the game complaining about it, they just won't be playing the game.

There is no real way of knowing how popular/unpopular the system is. It's all guesswork.

They've really left very little viable pathways for people to get gear if they are not interested in doing group activity. At least with GC, I could grind heroics or play flashpoints or bring alts through the story to earn CXP for the crates, and the crates gave UCs. RNG could be overcome by disintegrating the items for UCs. It might have been slow, and far slower than other ways of gearing, but it could still be done.

 

With 5.10, the only way I have to get new gear is to do the weekly 10-daily mission grind on one planet. I can dissolve repeat items for UCs, but considering that each piece of 252 gear costs at least 2000 UCs, it's too expensive to be feasible. There's no other way to get the crystals, and the cost of crafting the gear - 28 CMTs per piece, mats found only in a single NiM - is also untenable.

 

So it becomes a situation where all one can do is walk away and not bother even trying for the 252s or 258s. I don't need it for the story content and since they've made getting the gear so arduous, I don't care to try for it even for fun.

This! This is why i suggested they would reset/start new tree on GC from lvl 1 again with new tier of items and other loot dropping from the boxes. It would freshen up the game for everyone and those who do group content would still get their extra crystals from doing the current methods available. Current system just promotes you to stop playing your character after you finish the story and looking at the speed they put out the new content they should make sure everyone has something to do and gear to gain in between the content patches. We can't lose anymore players now.

You're stating your opinion like it's a fact.

What part of "i think" led you to the conclusion that I'm stating it as fact? LMFAO.

To the few people who have paid close enough attention, its obvious that this whole situation is something that has repeated itself many times over.

The initial release of anything is ALWAYS going to push the boundaries of what BW can get away with. After the initial release, usually a few months later (not necessarily because of negative feedback), they make small changes to have more inclusion and freedom to acquire the new shinies. This happened with 4.0, 5.0, and now with 5.10 gearing. Hell, you can even put me on record as stating 6.0 will have issues that people will complain about too, and by 6.3 it will be a non-issue for most players (even the most spiteful).

They put gates on gearing to force people to play different content and hope that the players horizons become more broad - FOR THE HEALTH OF THE GAME. An MMO, or more specifically a certain area of an MMO (FPs, pvp, ops, nim, gsf, etc) does not stay alive without participation. The gate is to bring participation, EVEN IF ITS TEMPORARY. After a few months, they make regeants, components and gear available more broadly. Its how MMOs have worked for decades. Its not something new, and its not something that has anything to do with the complaints of not listening to feedback. Its a longevity strategy that has been explained many times in detail over the years.

What part of "i think" led you to the conclusion that I'm stating it as fact? LMFAO.

Probably the selective reading part that filtered out the phrase “I think” in order to facilitate a knee-jerk reaction

This! This is why i suggested they would reset/start new tree on GC from lvl 1 again with new tier of items and other loot dropping from the boxes. It would freshen up the game for everyone and those who do group content would still get their extra crystals from doing the current methods available. Current system just promotes you to stop playing your character after you finish the story and looking at the speed they put out the new content they should make sure everyone has something to do and gear to gain in between the content patches. We can't lose anymore players now.

Exactly. If they had a new tree, or perhaps went to 400 or 500 GC levels or a Tier V, and allowed gear upgrades with (reasonable amount of) UCs IMHO it would have been far better than this. You've hit the nail on the head: they want people to grind until the next content drop, but they've set up a system that is just breeding boredom, frustration and people walking away.

I got my alts to Legend status with the reputation because I wanted the decos. Now that I have them I feel no real reason to keep playing the dailies/weeklies. I'm going to get my characters as strong as possible with the 248 gear and leave it there.

Most of the time I am supportive of Bioware and try to spread positivity about the game and its direction. But not today and not now. Even though I personally am not that bothered by the gear grind, I am in a minority in regards to that as the majority of the players is highly unsatisfied with the 5.10 gearing changes.

 

Therefore, I am appealing to the devs directly through this thread: don't be stubborn. Let your initial idea for the 5.10 gear changes go, there is no merit in buckling down in your belief that you are correct or that this is what the playerbase needs. Because it isn't, this isn't what the players want or need.

 

Don't presume to speak for the players, listen to them instead. Jedi Under Siege could have been a great update if it hadn't been for the gear grind you have introduced (yes I know, the bugs ruined a lot as well). You have made changes that will work detrimentally to the playerbase and therefore I beg you: put your own wants aside and please listen to the playerbase. Put aside what you want to see implemented into the game and listen to what the players are telling you they'd like to see in regards to gearing.

 

Please, don't be stubborn.

I can tell you as a casual player I find it just fine. I can get an upgrade every week, complete what's missing with the masterwork crystals. I don't see a problem there. Sure there's RNG but that is mitigated by the UCs. 3 misses and you can choose what you need.

What I find bad from a design point of view is that the galactic command system is now useless. Why introduce a paragon-style system (levels on top of max level) and then abandon it on the next patch? Very clunky, shows the lack of a consistent long-term vision for this game.

I can tell you as a casual player I find it just fine. I can get an upgrade every week, complete what's missing with the masterwork crystals. I don't see a problem there. Sure there's RNG but that is mitigated by the UCs. 3 misses and you can choose what you need.

What I find bad from a design point of view is that the galactic command system is now useless. Why introduce a paragon-style system (levels on top of max level) and then abandon it on the next patch? Very clunky, shows the lack of a consistent long-term vision for this game.

Iirc they have said that they plan to build off of the GC system with 6.0, so in the event you grind through to get 258 gear for your alts, you will likely have CR 300 by the time 6.0 hits, making it useful again for the new, and expected, grind in 6.0

Good to see so many supporters in this thread for the new gearing system.

Maybe the game will flourish and pick up steam, bringing more people to it when word gets around how fun the new gearing system is and how the game has improved particularly recently with the 5.10 patch.

Sure there's RNG but that is mitigated by the UCs. 3 misses and you can choose what you need.

A single 252 piece disintegrates into 175 unassembled components.

You can, at max, obtain two MDCs per week ONLY from unassembled components, but that will cost you 1500 unassembled components for the penalty of not waiting.

1500 divided by 175 is 8 4/7 or 8.57 Since you can't buy half a crystal that must be rounded up to 9.

Its not three misses, its NINE misses. By nine misses you will have earned enough UCs that you can convert them to two MDCs and buy the piece you are missing.

EDIT: You will of course earn CXP during the mission which awards a 252 RNG box, about three or four crates. Even if they all had gold legendary 248 pieces that would be a maximum of 40 UCs … Over 9 weekly CXP reward that will give you 360 UC, but more like 288 UC with real drop rates of 248. That might be enough to get it in EIGHT misses instead of nine. Either way, you math is completely off. And, with those 30-some crates you've opened, you have basically a non-detectable chance of seeing a 252 just from a Tier 4 command crate.

Iirc they have said that they plan to build off of the GC system with 6.0, so in the event you grind through to get 258 gear for your alts, you will likely have CR 300 by the time 6.0 hits, making it useful again for the new, and expected, grind in 6.0

This is absolutely 100% false. I hate to repeat a tired ole' trope, but, screenie/link or it didn't happen. The developers have NEVER stated their plans for Galactic Command in 6.0. They haven't even confirmed it will still exist. In fact, what Musco wrote was:

We have made no secret of the fact that we know we are due for some big itemization changes to address a variety of issues around gearing. Please keep telling us what you would like to see in the future from gearing in SWTOR. We will continue to gather feedback and as we get into the next year, we will have active conversations with you about future gearing plans.

This is absolutely 100% false. I hate to repeat a tired ole' trope, but, screenie/link or it didn't happen. The developers have NEVER stated their plans for Galactic Command in 6.0. They haven't even confirmed it will still exist. In fact, what Musco wrote was:

Im pretty sure it was said during a webcast.

I was just on test, and I can't even begin to relate to how disappointed I am with BW and the lack of vision or grasp on their audience.

So the new crystal currency wasn't enough, and we're getting a extra new type crystal for gear grind. crafting mats for 258 gear is still locked behind nim gotm, and they set up a deco vendor to eat crystals+unassembled components.

6.0 is a pipe dream. they are literally just putting minimal effort in and milking it for whats they can. Disney needs to pull the ip sooner than later.

At least fix bugs! but they are incapable of that as well.

Im pretty sure it was said during a webcast.

Again, I'm calling nerf excrement. They've never said it on any of the live streams and they never said it on the BadFeeling Buvette recently either. So, provide the link.

The reality is that they have made no reassurance that galactic command will be in 6.0. And the model introduced with Ossus/5.10, whether you love the system or hate it, clearly undermines the goals of galactic command.

I don't mind the new gearing system except for two things:

- the random drops from the Ossus solo weekly are too random. At least they should offer a vendor for trading items. Yesterday I got one of those useless "use: ..." 252 relics on my commando medic. What a disappointment. If the drops would at least be useful for the char it's being collected on, that would already make a difference

- we have too many different currencies now. One of the main reasons for the galactic command system was that "things were too difficult" for the players with crystals and whatnot. Now there are even more different currencies and it's just chaotic.

I don't mind the new gearing system except for two things:

 

- the random drops from the Ossus solo weekly are too random. At least they should offer a vendor for trading items. Yesterday I got one of those useless "use: ..." 252 relics on my commando medic. What a disappointment. If the drops would at least be useful for the char it's being collected on, that would already make a difference

If they allowed a much easier system for specific pieces, the majority of players would be completely done gearing in just a couple weeks. This is not healthy for retaining populations and participation. As it stands now, there is a way to get the specific item you want through buying the MW shards, but obviously takes a lot more effort and time, as it should.

- we have too many different currencies now. One of the main reasons for the galactic command system was that "things were too difficult" for the players with crystals and whatnot. Now there are even more different currencies and it's just chaotic.

I cant speak to the idea that one of the main reasons for GC was things being too difficult with all the regeants; i dont recalk ever hearing or reading that, but perhaps it was said at some point. However, now there is only 1 currency to worry about - masterwork shards.

I won't claim to speak for everyone who dislikes the system, but I can identify several of the problems I have, which I believe others have as well. DISCLAIMER: I am not a Master Mode Gods from the Machine -capable player nor am I a Gold tier ranked pvp'er. I am a filthy casual, occasional Vet Mode, eager to learn Master Modes, all types of content, player

 

1.) Regardless of how palatable a person may find the masterwork data crystal grind, the crafting pathway for 258 gear is absolutely not faster than the MDCs. This runs counter to the developer's stated goal of having crafting be the fastest way. Now, if you consider that an influence 50 companion will be able to craft the 258 piece in a matter of minutes, as opposed to weeks to get sufficient MDCs … well, then, you're missing the point. Its the resource material requirements, which are absolutely out of whack.

2.) This system renders Galactic Command largely useless for primary toons. It turns the crates into factories for churning out very small quantities of unassembled components. Its a grind from 1-300 that is largely pointless for your primary toons. Its definitely pointless under CR 300 for all toons. GC is still useful for alts or for other discipline sets, but its usefulness has been greatly diminished.

3.) This system shoehorns folks into doing one type of content in one location in the game at end game that isn't even the content for which the gear is designed. There is a rotating weekly for an extra MDC, but it rotates every two weeks. The rotating weekly is broken for 1 out of the 3 versions we've had over the past 6 weeks. Either way, that weekly consists of content that can be done in a few hours, and you have to go right back to that same zone everyone else is in.

4.) More importantly than the slowness of the system is its alt-unfriendliness. To gear up a single toon requires you to grind content on alts, just to earn MDCs, that will immediately go to one or two of your primary toons. The alts become very sophisticated mules for maybe a couple of your mains. All the work done on those toons does not benefit them, except through a neutered galactic command system. GC was good because at least the things you did on that character benefitted that character. Earning MDCs on toon B simply to buy a piece of gear that will immediately go to toon A, who is a completely different class, and in the process essentially setting your toon B back by WEEKS in the gear grind, is not a paradigm that is sustainable.

 

Those are my biggest objections to the system, Mr. Kennedy.

Well I would disagree in a predictable way, which is along the lines of my first post on this thread. As stated, I'm interested in operations, and I see the new gear as doing two things:

(1) Allowing the devs to squeeze out something to do from the GoTMV ops by making it NiM, and also creating a grind for people to do as well, a grind of dailies, heroics and WB's. From the point of view of pure corporate efficiency, they created something that will give people something to do.

(2) In some ways for a lot of people who are not on the elite NiM raid teams with all the timed runs under their belts, this is actually a gift for people who want those NiM ops achievements: HM/NiM players, maybe they can actually beat those apex bosses now, farm those vanity items.

I think that this is a very sly gift to people who are somewhat out of range of doing that but have always wanted to.

1) I would just say that I disagree that crafting should be the fastest way to get the gear. Why should it be? Should you be able to get the best stuff by just sitting around camping, or by showing mastery of mechanics, rotation, situational awareness, social organization - true skill and effort - it's clear what should be rewarded with the best stuff.

2) Well, it depends how you look at it, I mean if you view it like I do, that 252/8 gear is a bonus, then you're not losing anything. Your old crap and system still is useful and now you can get something extra.

3) I'll agree with you that it's a tedious grind.

4) Well I think the fundamental disagreement I have with you is how you view this: glass half empty or half full, I see half full. Unless you're a competitive ranked person, no one is forced to get 258 gear. I look at it as an opportunity, you see it as a burden.

- the random drops from the Ossus solo weekly are too random. At least they should offer a vendor for trading items. Yesterday I got one of those useless "use: ..." 252 relics on my commando medic. What a disappointment. If the drops would at least be useful for the char it's being collected on, that would already make a difference

 

- we have too many different currencies now. One of the main reasons for the galactic command system was that "things were too difficult" for the players with crystals and whatnot. Now there are even more different currencies and it's just chaotic.

Those are very valid points of critique. Especially the first one you raise, the RNG is absolutely unnecessary and I can't imagine someone to genuinely like it. When I gear up I want to be certain that the amount of work I put in will be rewarded with the gearpiece I want or need. The RNG element that has been introduced is ridiculous in my opinion, because it has absolutely no merit and actually works obtrusively in the gearing process.

As to your second point of criticism, I again absolutely agree. We once more have a wide range of currencies that - half of the time - sit completely unused in the inventory. I just don't understand why they didn't continue with Galactic Command, after it was tweaked and changed it had become a nice system of leveling. Yes, there was still an element of RNG but one that could be easily circumvented. Honestly I don't see why the 252 and 258 gear couldn't have been Tier V in Galactic Command.