Jump to content

Let the Jedi use his light saber


LuciferinDNA

Recommended Posts

True, gunsliger lacking in self heal. I suggest go and make a thread about it if its frustrating you and you think that it disturbs the lore of SW till you play the class.

 

You mentioning Scoundrel,

So I have a lvl 50 scoundrel I like it so much, from the reason that he can use a bunch of skills and can handle almost all situation:

Can heal self like no other class, can snake and even HIPS! Most mobil class. Greatest and strongest aoe skill, can involve in close combat fight till if he lacking in resistance a bit, he can use free insta heal after every even whip attack. He has aoe stun and its the longest stun in game. He has ranged dps, melee dps and heal tree (very playful what is a good point in an mmo, )) And if it needed he goes to cover and has incredible great long range ability bar (a new skill bar!!! I like this one the most , )) He can use two 30m range grenade and both aoe and in very short cool-down . Ah and did I mentioned, that all of his long range, short range, aoe, heal... and all super wide ability bar is supported by his main atribute? : )

Only one assumption... could it be, that this are the reasons way they don't qq'ing?

By the way, do you see any one QQ'ing here? I made a suggestion, a suggestion what is strange that almost no one mentioning (ok in game chat I saw a lot of jokes, that Sage/Sorc has no light saber, they have a walking stick , ))

And don't misunderstood me its not a qq for better dmg, I have good dmg with my Sage (of course everything could be better , )) I just ask for a change, what all classes has and I can go further, this change won't be game breaking, but if it stays like that its simply SW lore breaking.

 

I think there is a... language barrier making this 'discussion' more difficult to have, because you keep misunderstanding what others are saying. I did not suggest gunslinger lacking a self-heat was a nuisance or needed thing, I stated that to point out a flaw in your argument that everyone has a self-heal in one way or another and thus the sage having one is just par for the course.

 

And yes, you are QQing as you continue to whine about not being able to use melee abilities - which would overpower the class - when it's clearly pointed out why you CANNOT have what you are asking for without seriously, and completely, rebalancing the entire class - not to mention angering people who chose sage so that they could be a ranged DPS rather than a melee one. Whether your INTENTION is to get additional damage or not, what you are suggesting WOULD result in that end.

 

Comparing the sage DPS tree to ALL of the scoundrel trees and skills is NOT an even comparison. The scoundrels who roll melee are almost completely melee (unless they are a hybrid or respec, which is a whole nother ballgame). Other melee classes also have a few ranged attacks (just as the sage already has melee attacks) so your argument yet again falls completely flat.

 

Simplest answer is STILL, roll an assassin/shadow if you want to use your lightsaber as a consular/inquisitor, because you are NOT going to get a melee buff on the sage/sorc for a myriad of reasons. Your suggestion to just have it be viable 'for fun' only results in a higher damage output from sages (because those 'for fun' attacks can still be used in 'for serious' ways). Again, whether that's your intention or not, it is what it would result in without completely redoing the class from the ground up for balance issues.

 

By the way, I PLAY a sage and my questing partner and I regularly joke that her lightsaber is actually a flashlight that she just uses to blind people. We also celebrate when I get a chance to actually hit something with it. We are well aware that the sage carrying a lightsaber is for show; neither of us has a problem with that and if we did, I'd re-roll as a shadow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 105
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

As a shadow I ask why?

When people spam fleet and ask shadow or sage - I say sage. Why use the saber other than for deflection? Sage is a jedi /wizard class. As the otherside of the spectrum I wish I could cause ruin from affar. But I am perfectly happy being melee, so why do you not want to be ranged? OP with your post about boosting saber damage by using the willpower modifier it would make the class some what unbalanced. The other consular AC doesn't have skills that boost their willpower- the ones in the skill tree I am refering too. Also their willpower is significantly lower than yours, to trade they use higher base weapon damage to offset the difference.

If there was a re-ajustment to add this , it might make the sage require a major class overhaul. The low armour raiting is unusable for melee, the inspiration for the class was palpatine. Who always fought from afar. You do know that shadow has 1/5 or 1/6th of your mana? Why should you get their best asset when they don't get yours?

So why do I prefer sage then? It was a pain to be married to a healer pet leveling till 50. I enjoy the sages versitility more as I lvl one.

 

Nonsense. A sorc has what two abilities, thrash and sabre strike, no talents to increase the damage or crit chance of them either. It would not make them OP in any way, because sorcs/sages don't want to be in melee range, but it at least means they can do a hit or two if rooted etc before trying to escape, because competent melee will interrupt their casts.

 

As for the damage, it's meh, and only sorcs/sages are the advanced class that don't benefit from main stat to weapon damage.

 

As a shadow you benefit not only from willpower but strength to a lesser degree too, so tell me how that is fair? I'd also point out, since you seem oblivious to many things about reality in this game, that sorc/sage dps is the lowest there is, even with 6% to willpower. So before making your unfounded suggestions that "oh noes, sages will become so uber", you might want to try looking at the facts.

 

But since you want to quote lore, how about the fact that Jedi/Sith are trained to use lightsabres, so your point about Palpatine is moot, but you know he seemed pretty capable with his sabre when fighitng Yoda in case you forgot. In ToR sabres are basically glorified glowing stat-sticks for sages/sorcs... awesome, and there isn't one good reason why this should be so (and you haven't posted cogent argument as to why it shouldn't change).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there is a... language barrier making this 'discussion' more difficult to have, because you keep misunderstanding what others are saying. I did not suggest gunslinger lacking a self-heat was a nuisance or needed thing, I stated that to point out a flaw in your argument that everyone has a self-heal in one way or another and thus the sage having one is just par for the course.

 

And yes, you are QQing as you continue to whine about not being able to use melee abilities - which would overpower the class - when it's clearly pointed out why you CANNOT have what you are asking for without seriously, and completely, rebalancing the entire class - not to mention angering people who chose sage so that they could be a ranged DPS rather than a melee one. Whether your INTENTION is to get additional damage or not, what you are suggesting WOULD result in that end.

 

Comparing the sage DPS tree to ALL of the scoundrel trees and skills is NOT an even comparison. The scoundrels who roll melee are almost completely melee (unless they are a hybrid or respec, which is a whole nother ballgame). Other melee classes also have a few ranged attacks (just as the sage already has melee attacks) so your argument yet again falls completely flat.

 

Simplest answer is STILL, roll an assassin/shadow if you want to use your lightsaber as a consular/inquisitor, because you are NOT going to get a melee buff on the sage/sorc for a myriad of reasons. Your suggestion to just have it be viable 'for fun' only results in a higher damage output from sages (because those 'for fun' attacks can still be used in 'for serious' ways). Again, whether that's your intention or not, it is what it would result in without completely redoing the class from the ground up for balance issues.

 

By the way, I PLAY a sage and my questing partner and I regularly joke that her lightsaber is actually a flashlight that she just uses to blind people. We also celebrate when I get a chance to actually hit something with it. We are well aware that the sage carrying a lightsaber is for show; neither of us has a problem with that and if we did, I'd re-roll as a shadow.

 

What utter rot. You seem to be oblivious that whether the other advanced classes are range or melee, they will get mainstat bonus to ALL their attacks. If they are ranged they get their bonus on melee and vice/versa. Sorcs/Sages do not, and if you think just because they get willpower to melee attacks it would make them OP and require rebalancing, then you are clueless about Sages and Sorcs and class balance in general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there is a... language barrier making this 'discussion' more difficult to have, because you keep misunderstanding what others are saying. I did not suggest gunslinger lacking a self-heat was a nuisance or needed thing, I stated that to point out a flaw in your argument that everyone has a self-heal in one way or another and thus the sage having one is just par for the course.

 

And yes, you are QQing as you continue to whine about not being able to use melee abilities - which would overpower the class - when it's clearly pointed out why you CANNOT have what you are asking for without seriously, and completely, rebalancing the entire class - not to mention angering people who chose sage so that they could be a ranged DPS rather than a melee one. Whether your INTENTION is to get additional damage or not, what you are suggesting WOULD result in that end.

 

Comparing the sage DPS tree to ALL of the scoundrel trees and skills is NOT an even comparison. The scoundrels who roll melee are almost completely melee (unless they are a hybrid or respec, which is a whole nother ballgame). Other melee classes also have a few ranged attacks (just as the sage already has melee attacks) so your argument yet again falls completely flat.

 

Simplest answer is STILL, roll an assassin/shadow if you want to use your lightsaber as a consular/inquisitor, because you are NOT going to get a melee buff on the sage/sorc for a myriad of reasons. Your suggestion to just have it be viable 'for fun' only results in a higher damage output from sages (because those 'for fun' attacks can still be used in 'for serious' ways). Again, whether that's your intention or not, it is what it would result in without completely redoing the class from the ground up for balance issues.

 

By the way, I PLAY a sage and my questing partner and I regularly joke that her lightsaber is actually a flashlight that she just uses to blind people. We also celebrate when I get a chance to actually hit something with it. We are well aware that the sage carrying a lightsaber is for show; neither of us has a problem with that and if we did, I'd re-roll as a shadow.

 

QQing and whine in my eyes is not the same as to make a suggestion and with logical reasoning standing next to it.

If you play a sage, you should know well, that even if TK would be disturbed, even then its better to cast it for the first-second ticks + force regen + presence of mind + even tidal force (if we talk about dps), then land a double strike what channels for 2 sec even if Sage/Sorce would get the willpower bonus when it has zero support from the skill tree. Its impossible to compare this things! : )

 

I will talk about pvp this time, because its clear like sky that even with my suggestion if a Sage/Sorc would go for melee in OPs, HM FP's the question from the team " What the hell are you doing? You root our healer non stop! " would be reasonable.

So in player vs player situation if any class in the game cannot handle a melee attack from a Sage/Sorc with risen bonus melee dmg by there willpower, then the whole game should be rebalanced. But from the ground. But I think all of us could agree that this assumption is nonsense , )

 

You mentioned, that you have a Sage, ok I believe it , ) But one thing is sure, your Sage is not lvl 50 and till I'm sure, that you never wanna use your Sage like a main char, its pointless persuading you with any logical reason coz you are simply lobby against this AD class : )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I asked my bro to give me the stats of his Sorcerer (who have a little more gear than my Shadow) in order to do a comparaison between my Shadow's melee Bonus and his, if he would have his Willpower working like any other classes :

 

Sorcerer : (Full BM + WH MainHand/OffHand/Gloves/Boots)

  • Willpower : 1417
  • Power : 284
  • Weapon : 324 - 486

Melee bonus : 672.72 - 834.72 (hypotetical)

 

Shadow : (Full BM + WH MainHand/OffHand - Recruit#2 implants)

  • Willpower : 1313
  • Power : 248
  • Weapon : 389 - 584

Melee bonus : 708.64 - 903.64

 

Melee bonuses are calculated with only Cons/Inq buff giving +5% to Willpower. We can see that a Sorcerer with 9%-bonus to Willpower will always be unable to outperform a Shadow in the melee department.

Edited by Altheran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My End build!

Sage max bonus damage!

 

I'll add it should be willpower AND Forcepower.

 

This, first build, is an end build I'm experimenting with for one of my characters. If I added the Force and will damage together it is a bonus of +780 damage. My base melee would be 166.1 so that would be +946.1 total bonus damage. I would have 1298.9-1476.35 damage per swing raw. No more bonuses than this either. That is a 1.5 attack base for a basic swing of 860-984.23 DPS. That is not a lot. The second basic attack wouldn't be much more than that. it would be comparable with the other lowest attacks you use. And only usable with melee range. We do not have range gapping ability spells beside force run. so it is only for close range or when you are out of Force. It would only be logical in my mind to add it instead of maintaining a useless set of basic attacks. Of which we are like the only class that to be stuck without... so what gives?

 

I'm not the highest dps but this would scale with other damage and not overtake your spells.

 

Me(Sorc):

ECM = effective crit multiplier = Crit chance in % form 0.xx X multiplier in % 0.xx.

 

Base Melee: 336 - 505 Energy damage.

 

Strength (147) +29.4

Power (560) +128.8

Bonus +5%

Total: +166.1

Willpower (2166.7) +433.3

Force Power (1346) +309.6

bonus +5%

Total: +780.0

 

New bonus: +946.1 approximately (+1173.7 bonus damage if you go buy the "max sage damage bonus" build.)

 

Weapon damage 1298.9 - 1476.35 (1387.63 average damage)

 

my current weapon damage is 436-589.

 

Mind you the max, basically, conceivable, crit bonus is like +40%. That is for spells, not melee. And that is at 50% crit and 80% multiplier and it sacrifices huge amounts of other stats to get! Particularly Power. If the max damage bonus build's melee stats could take all surge in the tertiary skills and get 80% multiplier it would be a bonus of 0.1217 x 0.8 = 0.09736 effective multiplier. Or Plus 10%. So the crit DPS addition would never be very high on a sage. Unless you went strength to specialize and then well there's nothing to complain about. The first build I'm actually working on would have 17% spell ECM/ 9.4% melee ecm effective multiplier to DPS. 22%spell ecm/ 12.33% melee ecm if I switched some accuracy or alacrity for 120 surge rating(66.68 multiplier)

 

Sage Weapon attacks:

 

Double Strike:

Instant

Cost: 25 force

Range: 4m

 

Currently does 367-443 weapon damage twice.

 

That is 85% min damage on first and 75% of my max damage for the high end. You do two of those. Carry that logic and you get:

 

1096.4-1107.3 damage times two hits.

 

Saber Strike:

Instant

Range: 4m

 

438-593 damage over 3 attacks. Just over my current weapon damage. Making it basically the weapon damage over 3 hits. (1387.63/3 = 462.5, 1518.07/3 = 506 @ 9.4% ecm, 1558.72/3 = 519.57 @ 12.33% ecm)

 

The attacks do take time to carry out and losing range or me taking various actions can stop them...

 

These are also instant spells meaning the DPS is actually 2/3's of the noted damage. so the 2200 raw damage is 1466.67dps! and this is a max geared character despite the lower power from the build. Adding crit will only raise that a bit(9.4% for 1604.54 DPS or 12.33% for 1647.5 DPS for double strike!), basically giving you sword swings that do not lower your DPS below your lowest attacks. What it is meant to do.

 

Edit: FYI At that first builds stats. TK throw should do a base of 1k per hit. That is more than 1k per second as it is a 3 second hit split in 4 hits. So my spell attack would be 1333 dps base. Add crit and alacrity for 1793.55 DPS(1870.2 with 22% ECM = effective crit multiplier). That is more than the Double strike DPS in both cases.

 

That is not overpowering especially since we will not use it as much being ranged. but we do need it at various times and it's more than a bit unfair we cannot use our basic attacks, when needed or desired!

 

The other reason is just sheer variation. Having the ability to use those once in a while just because we feel like it and not getting yelled at would be very nice.I know I get very tired of casting my rotation and would love t use them. Having them not lower my DPS, or not by very much, would be spectacular for my sanity, if anything else.

 

** I also had the idea to add a small 0.5% force regen(1.5% per swing) to the Saber Strike via skills or just given at some lv. And a slow down for Double Strike that is 10 seconds and stacks maybe x times and adds to the stack for each hit(2x per attack) for +10% slowdown per stack. Could be 5 possibly so you can get away or help in melee like you do with telekinetic throw if you want, and to help get away unlike TK throw since Tk throw goes away instantly and this would last 10 seconds. But those are just ideas.

 

BTW the Sage has really really really really cool looking sword swings!! 8D For those people looking for Asoka's backwards holding swing, the sage does it! Although he does not hold it like that after he's done.

 

So in conclusion:

 

If Sage/Sorc will be able to use there willpower(Edit: I'm adding "AND Forcepower") bonus for melee dmg bonus (like all classes do with there main attribute and class roll pair (force-melee, ranged-tech) the 2 base melee skills what he would be able to use will never bring better dmg outcome compared to there main skills.

It would do just one thing, make this two melee ability viable and using it for fun.

This is all its about.

If you have more specific questions and you still confused please take your time and ask : )

Edited by Aital
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll add it should be willpower AND Forcepower.

No. Clearly no. Just Willpower. Forcepower isn't meant to boost melee damage whatever the Advanced class is.

Force Power is a stat on weapon-type items so that Force abilities improve in the same line as melee abilities because weapons bear damage bonus. The same goes for Tech Power, for non-force users.

Edited by Altheran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

that really doesn't matter. It's a stat. without it the melee swing will not be on par. And the Jedi can use their force powers to aid in melee combat. they can do it in many ways. I've seen this over and over in game design and fiction.

 

The sage trains that side so he can use forcepower to enhance his sword melee abilities instead of using brute force. That is traditional Jedi skills.... Sorry that is how the fiction has traditionally gone.

Edited by Aital
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll keep it simple : Sages mustn't be on par with Shadows for melee abilities. For each class, there is advanced class that is better than the other at using weapon damage, for IA it is Sniper, for Trooper it is Commando, for Knight it is Sentinels, and for Consular it is Shadow.

 

Shadows don't use Force Power for their melee abilities, so Sages mustn't either. If they surpass Sages it is only because they use a double-bladed lightsaber which give more weapon damage.

Force Power is a stat meant to give almost as much damage bonus as regular weapon (classic lightsaber) to Force, if you apply the stat to melee, it's like giving the equivalent of two weapons as melee bonus, but a double-bladed lightsaber doesn't give twice the bonus, but only 30% or so. It's clear that if Sages would get benefits from Force Power to their melee abilities, Sage would outperform Shadows in melee.

 

A ranged class better at melee than a melee class ? It's non-sense.

Edited by Altheran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mouseover Willpower as Sage. It buffs all damage, including melee, including melee critical chance. Just like Strength improves Knight's Force powers.

 

When I do it on my Sorc, it doesn't. Only Force is said to be buffed.

Edited by Altheran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I do it on my Sorc, it doesn't. Only Force is said to be buffed.

Logged on my Sage and............ you're correct. What the frak...... Tried removing Willpower gear and it does indeed not affect my weapon damage.

 

So yes, in this case, I definitely support this thread. Sages have too few lightsaber skills to become overpowered as a result of WP increasing melee damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll keep it simple : Sages mustn't be on par with Shadows for melee abilities. For each class, there is advanced class that is better than the other at using weapon damage, for IA it is Sniper, for Trooper it is Commando, for Knight it is Sentinels, and for Consular it is Shadow.

 

First off even with will bonus to melee damage, they wouldn't surpass shadows and secondly you clearly are unaware of how advanced classes work and their relation to bonus damages.

 

Shadows don't use Force Power for their melee abilities, so Sages mustn't either.

 

*sigh* Sages don't, and adding willpower to melee damage, still wouldn't change that.

 

If they surpass Sages it is only because they use a double-bladed lightsaber which give more weapon damage.

Force Power is a stat meant to give almost as much damage bonus as regular weapon (classic lightsaber) to Force, if you apply the stat to melee, it's like giving the equivalent of two weapons as melee bonus, but a double-bladed lightsaber doesn't give twice the bonus, but only 30% or so. It's clear that if Sages would get benefits from Force Power to their melee abilities, Sage would outperform Shadows in melee.

 

A ranged class better at melee than a melee class ? It's non-sense.

 

Force power does NOTHING for melee damage. Plain Power does, not force power. And plain power even gives sages bonus melee damage.

 

Here's the bit you clearly seem confused about. Adding Willpower for Sages, buffs Force Power, does nothing for melee. For Shadows, they also get the same bonus to Force power, but they get their Will and a bonus for Str added on to their melee damage. Adding Willpower to melee damage is not the same as adding Force Power to melee damage.. You really, really need to understand this, because all I can see is it seems to fly over your head and you are making comments based on ignorance.

 

Willpower - is a buff for force for all inquisitors/consulars, but for shadows/sins it gives them melee bonus damage. It should really be changed so sorcs/sages benefit too.

Force power - only affects force abilities. Force bonus damage, is a combination of Willpower, power and buffs (such as inquisitor/warrior). This is the same for all inquisitors/consulars.

Power affects all attacks (melee and force)

 

And by the way they'd get the same bonus damage if they used a normal lightsabre instead of double-bladed with the same mods, only thing is it would prevent some abilities working, but not change their bonuses at all.

Edited by Chemic_al
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My gosh ! Chemic_al, you've just done a friendly fire !

 

Read again what I posted, what said the previous poster, what I quoted before, get an idea of the discussion with Aital, you'll see that I was responding to him who want Willpower and Force Power to buff melee, I tried to explain him why he was wrong, and you'll see that my point had sense.

 

And by the way you're wrong about this :

And by the way they'd get the same bonus damage if they used a normal lightsabre instead of double-bladed with the same mods, only thing is it would prevent some abilities working, but not change their bonuses at all.

 

War Hero Lightsaber weapon damage : 324 - 486

War Hero Double-bladed Lightsaber weapon damage : 389 - 584

 

 

And so you're wrong saying :

First off even with will bonus to melee damage, they wouldn't surpass shadows and secondly you clearly are unaware of how advanced classes work and their relation to bonus damages.

Because when I said :

For each class, there is advanced class that is better than the other at using weapon damage, for IA it is Sniper, for Trooper it is Commando, for Knight it is Sentinels, and for Consular it is Shadow.

I only listed advanced class who have either :

- A weapon bearing higher weapon damage (Cannon, Sniper Rifle, Double-bladed Lightsaber)

- Dual weapons which does additionnal damage comparing to the regular attack when wielding only one weapon

 

 

I won't list all the parts you misread or didn't understand I was saying to this guy he was spouting non-sense because he put Force Power in the way.

Reading is the key.

Edited by Altheran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, quite, my apologies re weapons, you know I always thought it was the hilt/barrel that governed the weapon damage, but oh my this just makes no sense at all given that all the dps WH offhands have 649 force/tech power.

 

But this is just means there's even less reason to deny sorc/sages willpower to melee damage.

Edited by Chemic_al
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But this is just means there's even less reason to deny sorc/sages willpower to melee damage.

 

I agree at 100%, with the difference between regular Lightsabers and double-bladed ones, removing Willpower to melee is an unnecessary move from BioWare (as well as not making any sense).

Edited by Altheran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My point was that Even giving forcepower did nothing but bring double strike to the lv of an unbuffed disturbance approximately. Just adding willpower would not be enough. I doubt even with forcepower added it would surpass shadows in melee damage. Sage basic strikes are too basic and don't have bonuses. They would still only be 1500 dps at most. And that is for the 25force double strike. The saber strike would be far less.

 

Edit: Wait, I think I know one discrepancy in this argument. My willpower forcepower is not using either for crit. So yea if willpower was added to crit bonus also that would probably be good. Though that would still only be a small increase.

 

Forcepower plus willpower using crit by my first estimate would still only be a 5% increase from my last numbers. It still wouldn't be that large of an increase. It goes from 12% to 17% ECM/crit modifier.

 

Lets see:

Double Strike with forcepower and willpower. Willpower adding to crit.

1100x2=2200/3=1466.67x1.1734(*0.34x0.51)= 1721dps. Edit: 1100x2=2200/3=1466.67x1.1623=1704.68DPS So 1700dps with a main attack of 2k dps.

 

Double Strike Willpower with no Forcepower. willpower adding to crit.

621.1 bonus damage

973.1 - 1151.35 Weapon damage

Estimate:

796.5 - 863.5 = 830 average damage.

 

830x2=1660x1.5=1106.67x1.1734=1298.56dps Edit: 1106.67x1.1623=1286.28DPS

 

I think that is still a little low. but you can decide.

 

Edit: BTW I'm using 34% crit for weapon damage. That is probably a bit to high. so the damage will be lower to each by a bit potentially. My actually crit for weapons via my given setup would be 31.82 total. so subtract a small percentage of damage Also removing the defence and replacing with power would only increase the base damage to +75 and the WZ mods would increast another +25. That increases it to about 1800 or so. But increases the spells more.

 

Telekinetic Throw:

1000x4=4000/3=1333.33x1.15(alacrity)=1533.33x1.2023(effective crit mod for spells)=1843.56DPSx1.06(damage bonus)=1954.13DPS

 

FYI I did the crit bonus for spells wrong earlier. I forgot disturbance and telekinetic throw have a +6% to crit chance. and I forgot their 6% to damage.

 

Disturbance:

I estimate from the current ration to average damage of disturbance my layout from before will have disturbance with a base 1541.86 damage per hit.

1541.86/1.5=1028x1.15(alacrity)=1182.1x1.06(bonus damage)=1253x1.2023(ecm)=1506.43x1.2(proc bonus)= 1807.73DPS

 

Edit: I forgot the procted version doesn't use alacrity. So 1807.73/1.15=1572.15DPS

 

Project:

Estimated damage per hit base = 1822.67 damage

 

1822.67/1.5=1215x1.1717(lower ecm of other spells)=1423.6x1.225(proc effective dps bonus)=1743.9x1.06(damage bonus)=1848.54DPS

 

And my disturbance isn't even fully using all the bonus spells. I have a hybrid also neither of these spells are as strong as they could be.

 

As you can see, without forcepower there is no chance of getting them close to the other damge for them to be viable. If you had pure tree on top of this it would be even worse per spell. You need forcepower added to even get close to DPS viability.

Edited by Aital
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My point was that Even giving forcepower did nothing but bring double strike to the lv of an unbuffed disturbance approximately. Just adding willpower would not be enough. I doubt even with forcepower added it would surpass shadows in melee damage. Sage basic strikes are too basic and don't have bonuses. They would still only be 1500 dps at most. And that is for the 25force double strike. The saber strike would be far less.

 

Edit: Wait, I think I know one discrepancy in this argument. My willpower forcepower is not using either for crit. So yea if willpower was added to crit bonus also that would probably be good. Though that would still only be a small increase.

 

Forcepower plus willpower using crit by my first estimate would still only be a 5% increase from my last numbers. It still wouldn't be that large of an increase. It goes from 12% to 17% ECM/crit modifier.

 

Lets see:

Double Strike with forcepower and willpower. Willpower adding to crit.

1100x2=2200/3=1466.67x1.1734(*0.34x0.51)= 1721dps.

 

Double Strike Willpower with no Forcepower. willpower adding to crit.

621.1 bonus damage

973.1 - 1151.35 Weapon damage

Estimate:

796.5 - 863.5 = 830 average damage.

 

830x2=1660x1.5=1106.67x1.1734=1298.56dps

 

I think that is still a little low. but you can decide.

 

Edit: BTW I'm using 34% crit for weapon damage. That is probably a bit to high. so the damage will be lower to each by a bit potentially. My actually crit for weapons via my given setup would be 31.82 total. so subtract a small percentage of damage Also removing the defence and replacing with power would only increase the base damage to +75 and the WZ mods would increast another +25. That increases it to about 1800 or so. But increases the spells more.

 

Telekinetic Throw:

1000x4=4000/3=1333.33x1.15(alacrity)=1533.33x1.2023(effective crit mod for spells)=1843.56DPSx1.06(damage bonus)=1954.13DPS

 

FYI I did the crit bonus for spells wrong earlier. I forgot disturbance and telekinetic throw have a +6% to crit chance. and I forgot their 6% to damage.

 

Disturbance:

I estimate from the current ration to average damage of disturbance my layout from before will have disturbance with a base 1541.86 damage per hit.

1541.86/1.5=1028x1.15(alacrity)=1182.1x1.06(bonus damage)=1253x1.2023(ecm)=1506.43x1.2(proc bonus)= 1807.73DPS

 

Edit: I forgot the procted version doesn't use alacrity. So 1807.73/1.15=1572.15DPS

 

Project:

Estimated damage per hit base = 1822.67 damage

 

1822.67/1.5=1215x1.1717(lower ecm of other spells)=1423.6x1.225(proc effective dps bonus)=1743.9x1.06(damage bonus)=1848.54DPS

 

And my disturbance isn't even fully using all the bonus spells. I have a hybrid also neither of these spells are as strong as they could be.

 

As you can see, without forcepower there is no chance of getting them close to the other damge for them to be viable. If you had pure tree on top of this it would be even worse per spell. You need forcepower added to even get close to DPS viability.

 

It could be THE dream of all Sage/Sorc to make there melee attack viable. - I wish, that it would come true, but I doubt , )

 

My base suggestion was a bit modest then your point of view, I just suggested to make that light saber hit happen and I didn't even dreamed to make it viable.

To implant willpower like a melee modifier to Sage/Sorc's panel would be a 30 minutes of scripting and its 100% sure, that it never would disturb the game balance.

To make there melee hit viable and to let it work some how with there main rotation would be more complex work, brainstorming from the devs side and a great debate from the player base. But I support it! : )

 

I can imagine it only in one way, if the melee hit would hit like truck - a risk vs reward situation.

risk - like the Sage/Sorc droops his distance and run into melee range

And if he makes a move like that, there should be a reward as well - this time its a strong melee hit.

 

Let the force be with the brave developer who touch this project : )

 

But I still say, that for the first step - willpower to melee mod. like all classes use there main attribute.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone know the given reason they removed it or never put it on?

 

No idea.

Side note, if they never put it on, it would be hard for us to know why, unless we would have been part of the developpement team...

Edited by Altheran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No idea.

Side note, if they never put it on, it would be hard for us to know why, unless we would have been part of the developpement team...

 

I would suggest it's because sorcs and sages don't use accuracy, so whilst that's not an issue early levels, it certainly would be in higher levels. You'd basically miss far too much for it to be useful most of the time.

 

But even taking that into account, still no reason not to give willpower to damage.

Edited by Chemic_al
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really see what the issue is here. If you wanted to use a lightsaber, you could have used a jedi knight. But you chose the force power type jedi. After that, you had another choice between sage, and shadow. Shadow uses both lightsaber and force. You simply choose the wrong AC for the type of play you would have liked. You chose the only 1 of the 4 types of jedi that doesn't use ls.

 

As much as I'd like to agree with you, i just can't. There is no way it could be done without re-balancing every class.

Just because you would still stay ranged, doesn't mean someone else couldn't find away to make it OP in pvp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the idea of no lightsaber on a Jedi. There are other Jedi and Sith for those that like Lightsabers. It's usually all books, games and movies cover are glowbat wielding Jedi and Sith. It's nice to have an option to do something else for once.

 

Let it be, but then the light saber should be removed totally from the characters hand, and lets say she/he should carry a floating crystal or even nothing : p But this time our Jedi (sage/sorc) opens every even action by pulling out his light saber, what he can't use. This option is simply confusing , )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really see what the issue is here. If you wanted to use a lightsaber, you could have used a jedi knight. But you chose the force power type jedi. After that, you had another choice between sage, and shadow. Shadow uses both lightsaber and force. You simply choose the wrong AC for the type of play you would have liked. You chose the only 1 of the 4 types of jedi that doesn't use ls.

 

As much as I'd like to agree with you, i just can't. There is no way it could be done without re-balancing every class.

Just because you would still stay ranged, doesn't mean someone else couldn't find away to make it OP in pvp.

 

Like a consular, I have a lvl 50 shadow as well, so its not about "I'm lazy to re-roll.."

Please, make me an example, how can in be OP from any aspect of the game? In pvp it would be simply non viable, till the AD has no support skill for its melee attacks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...