So. I have 2 battlemaster pieces+mainhand+jewelery, and my highest damage is

Detonator 3000-3500 crit, 1700 noncrit

incendiary 800 hit +300 dot (damn low)

Railshot 1500 and 3000 crit

627 expertise

And how kill anyone with so low damage? Yes, i have top damage in board, but i didn't see any results when i try killing guys.. And Rail shot can easy do deflect or covered, and i really think about back to arsenal build..

P.S. when i see operative stab me 4k-4k-4k damage combo, my soul is burning

I have found the pyrotech to be pyrofail. As far as i am concerned it is a complete joke. I average about 35 kills per game as TM spammer specc. and have no fun at all. Being a ranged nuke is boring imho, its like playing a boomkin all over again. Either pick no mobility or sissy dmg. Merc pvp is broken save for bodyguards.

Are kills all that matter in WZ's??

Besides, both Arsenal and Pyro can be very good in PvP. I'm specifically an advocate of Pyro PvP over Arsenal as I prefer the mobility and survivability it has. I've found damage to be quite strong as a Pyro as well, sometimes my burst as Pyro can equal or even surpass that of Arsenal.

Damage is fine. Not as strong as Sorcs, but fine nonetheless.

I find that I can do good damage as a Pyro. However, the strength of the class is really more subtle, at least when your're focusing on WZ objectives. For instance, the DOTs are great for preventing takeover of objectives, and we have some good ones. Staying with the ball carrier in Huttball and blowing enemies off the ramps with the jet pack is another good trick. My favorite is to electro dart the guy in the fire trap.

Knockbacks are done better by Arsenal spec and the DoT's can be easily cleansed as unlike PT's you can't overload their cleanses with more DoTs then they can handle. You have two... one of which is not even reliable(CGC).

love pyro playstyle but, it is completely inferior to arsenal in pvp. you get way more utility, survival, and burst as arsenal. the "mobility" and sustained damage that pyro players tout is overrated and not very useful at all.

pyro is not the "pvp" spec, arsenal is.

If you have trouble PvP'ing as pyro, you're doing it wrong. Period. Sorry, but that's the truth of it.

Either that or your definition of PvP is just blowing up whatever red text is in sight and going for random 1v1s.

its not a matter of "doing it wrong"... the spec is just lacking compared to arsenal which is so much more effective in pvp.

pyro is a pretty brainless spec to play and it's fun to run around tab dotting people while spamming instants so i see why people like it...

i even like it, it's just straight up inferior to a spec with an extra and more effective knockback, significantly more burst for less heat, and better survivability through better talent options.

I have found Pyro to be a blast to play as a merc. It's so much more dynamic than Arsenal, especially in Voidstar and Civil War. I love dotting up anybody trying to attack doors and turrets. I've also found certain classes much easier to attack as well since they can't run from my dots and/or cleanse them.

It does take a different mind set than Arsenal and it's better to use certain abilities in order and/or to proc other abilities.

I usually do my abilities in this order (using Rapid Shots when needed to keep heat manageable):

1. Incendiary Missile
   
2. Thermal Detonator
   
3. Rail Shot
   
4. Unload (followed by Power Shot if it doesn't proc Rail Shot again)
   

I also use Fusion missile on targets who are lower on health and in groups.

I'd say keep at it and try different stuff. I've done both specs for many hours of pvp and Pyrotech is far from useless.

its not a matter of "doing it wrong"... the spec is just lacking compared to arsenal which is so much more effective in pvp.

 

pyro is a pretty brainless spec to play and it's fun to run around tab dotting people while spamming instants so i see why people like it...

 

i even like it, it's just straight up inferior to a spec with an extra and more effective knockback, significantly more burst for less heat, and better survivability through better talent options.

Brainless spec? Compared to arsenal? Is that a joke? Tabbing and dotting is just about the least effective way to play the spec unless you're just about dead and need to get dots on people trying to take an objective. Otherwise, like I said, you're doing it wrong. The spec isn't lacking, your understanding of the spec and how to use it properly is.

And as for saying arsenal has more survivability? That's the icing on your fail cake.

I have found Pyro to be a blast to play as a merc. It's so much more dynamic than Arsenal, especially in Voidstar and Civil War. I love dotting up anybody trying to attack doors and turrets. I've also found certain classes much easier to attack as well since they can't run from my dots and/or cleanse them.

 

It does take a different mind set than Arsenal and it's better to use certain abilities in order and/or to proc other abilities.

 

I usually do my abilities in this order (using Rapid Shots when needed to keep heat manageable):

 

1. Incendiary Missile
   
2. Thermal Detonator
   
3. Rail Shot
   
4. Unload (followed by Power Shot if it doesn't proc Rail Shot again)
   

 

I also use Fusion missile on targets who are lower on health and in groups.

 

I'd say keep at it and try different stuff. I've done both specs for many hours of pvp and Pyrotech is far from useless.

^This

Pyro is great and anyone that disagrees in favor of Arsenal is fooling themselves. That little combo above can drop someone just as quick as any other class if you're smart about it. Some people might be turned off by the ramp up time, but I find it very satisfying. For example:

You spot a Sage on an upper level during a hutball match, shooting rocks at people and hurting your team. You throw IM on, and they ignore you. You throw TD on and they still ignore you. They only notice once that detonates and after you shoot an insta-cast fusion missle at them, and by then, they're done. I can only imagine the look of surprise on that kid's face.

Pyro is a thinking man's playstyle and if it's too hard for you, maybe you should try something easier, like minecraft.

I recently converted over from a "PvP" spec Arsenal to Pyro. I was very apprehensive but I made the switch to see if the grass was greener. I can say that I love it so much more. Geared Sorcs and Marauders can still beast on me but not at all as easy as when I was Arsenal. The interrupts/stuns/etc really effected the whole tracer missile thing. I can block caps a lot easier. My average damage has gone up significantly (and all single target for the most part).

In some instances Arsenal is way better, like if you are up on a catwalk in Huttball with a zerg group below you and you can just Tracer Missile/Heatseeker Missile away.

I don't exactly know what to chalk it up to but I feel a lot better in PvP. In PvE I think Arsenal is better, just my personal opinion with my playstyle.

My personal pet peeve is PvPers that do WZs and worry about total damage/kills. Reminder folks, there are objectives. Assuming the Op is talking about Illum pvp and moving on...

Keep in mind that just because you see lower numbers does not mean that you are doing less damage, especially with a DoT class. You want to see a lot of little numbers and mix in 2.5k here and there.

Agree. I play for objectives always so if my AVERAGE damage/kills/etc is higher then I know the spec is suiting me better all around.

My personal pet peeve is PvPers that do WZs and worry about total damage/kills. Reminder folks, there are objectives. Assuming the Op is talking about Illum pvp and moving on...

 

Keep in mind that just because you see lower numbers does not mean that you are doing less damage, especially with a DoT class. You want to see a lot of little numbers and mix in 2.5k here and there.

My merc is only 34, but I've experienced similar issues... Mainly because pyro spec is great for putting pressure on healers so that others can mop up the rest of the enemy team. Dots + decent burst mean that they have no choice but to spam on themselves, leaving their former targets vulnerable to your teammates.

Not getting kills doesn't mean you're bad. Not topping damage doesn't mean you're bad. The pyromerc is set up to be one of the best hit and run ranged dpsers in the game. Play to your strengths and you'll help your team win. We're far more effective on the move, harrying key members of the opposition with our instants and knockback than we are as catwalk turrets.

I guess you really have to understand your role in warzones to really shine. Your role is to break the enemy. You dont care about 1 vs 1 fights, you don't really care about running the ball (unless you have a clear path), thats what the speedsters and tank builds are for and you lack the CC breaks to carry it though the enemy. Not saying that you cant in some situations but its not the primary goal. You care about protecting the runners, making the healers focus on healing themselves instead of the party and clearing the way. I have never approached a 500k damage or a 60+ kill game as an arsenal but as a pyrotech very doable.

Your burst is better as a pyro than it is as an arsenal. We have a three second span tha we can do like 5-12k damage (high end is assuming crits) with Incend > Thermal > powershot x2 > Rail shot. Follow up with unload and a possible railshot again and you can take down almost anything but good healing spec players and heavy tanks.

People think that you are incend missile everyone that moves and thats just not true. If you are, your overheated by missile 3 and rapid shooting for about 8 seconds.

I guess you really have to understand your role in warzones to really shine. Your role is to break the enemy. You dont care about 1 vs 1 fights, you don't really care about running the ball (unless you have a clear path), thats what the speedsters and tank builds are for and you lack the CC breaks to carry it though the enemy. Not saying that you cant in some situations but its not the primary goal. You care about protecting the runners, making the healers focus on healing themselves instead of the party and clearing the way. I have never approached a 500k damage or a 60+ kill game as an arsenal but as a pyrotech very doable.

 

Your burst is better as a pyro than it is as an arsenal. We have a three second span tha we can do like 5-12k damage (high end is assuming crits) with Incend > Thermal > powershot x2 > Rail shot. Follow up with unload and a possible railshot again and you can take down almost anything but good healing spec players and heavy tanks.

 

People think that you are incend missile everyone that moves and thats just not true. If you are, your overheated by missile 3 and rapid shooting for about 8 seconds.

see there is where i am confused, tm(2500)HS(3500)unload(5000)rail(2000) is 13k damage in 3 seconds, and my numbers are a bit conservative... how do you figure pryo burst is better?

i been trying to understand this bursting flamer thing for a while now... fyi yes 1.5 seconds til the tm goes off but from first point of damage 3 seconds and fyi over 8k of it hits within .5 seconds putting them on their heels and trying to figure out how to get away.

see there is where i am confused, tm(2500)HS(3500)unload(5000)rail(2000) is 13k damage in 3 seconds, and my numbers are a bit conservative... how do you figure pryo burst is better?

 

i been trying to understand this bursting flamer thing for a while now... fyi yes 1.5 seconds til the tm goes off but from first point of damage 3 seconds and fyi over 8k of it hits within .5 seconds putting them on their heels and trying to figure out how to get away.

I don't think i am understanding the above. The unload portion takes 3 seconds and there is a little down time between the instant casts and the abilities (like .25 to .5 sec to raise your arm and fire).

Here is how pyro Damage breaks down. I took this from another one of my posts:

if you use the rotation of Incend missile > thermal . Powershot > Powershot > Railshot you will get excellent burst: look below at the approx Second for this rotation (not taking into account relic bonuses or adrenals (and based on my gear setup (all champion with some battlemaster 4 or 5 pieces) all eliminator with these being mostly averages with high end being crits and no crits on the incend missile ticks.

EDIT: To better show spacing:

seconds..........0.............1.................2 ...........3.............4............5........... ............6

incend............800............................400........................400..................... ...........400

thermal..............................(thrown)..... .......................................2-3.5k

Powershot......................................... .....................1-2k

powershot .................................................. ............................................1-2k

railshot .................................................. .................................................. .....1.5-3.2k

You get the damage i speak of in the 3.5-6 second range. The fist couple ticks of Incend missile isn't important simply because the damage in inconsequential when they are at 100%. It gets increasingly more valuable as they approach 30%. If they are in the open, then unload on to pretty much finish them off.

They also have 5sec to line of sight you (during tracer and unload due to the inability of you to move in that time) while pyro's are only stationary 3 sec (for the 2 unloads). In theory, if you can land all of these then you are close/on par but in practice once most players get hit by the tracer, they LoS asap and its alot harder to land that rotation consistently; especially if your starting from range. I could then go into interrupts and how you all arsenals are more likely to get hit by them to disrupt your rotation (and messing up your unload really destroys your burst).

So to summarize, in theory, with the numbers you presented, you can, but in practice and my experience, i don't think you have to consistency to land the entire rotation on an enemy the same way the pyrotech does. I think being able to land that incend and thermal det while running up close to the target is the big difference maker.

You make a good point though.

I don't think i am understanding the above. The unload portion takes 3 seconds and there is a little down time between the instant casts and the abilities (like .25 to .5 sec to raise your arm and fire).

 

Here is how pyro Damage breaks down. I took this from another one of my posts:

 

if you use the rotation of Incend missile > thermal . Powershot > Powershot > Railshot you will get excellent burst: look below at the approx Second for this rotation (not taking into account relic bonuses or adrenals (and based on my gear setup (all champion with some battlemaster 4 or 5 pieces) all eliminator with these being mostly averages with high end being crits and no crits on the incend missile ticks.

 

EDIT: To better show spacing:

 

seconds..........0.............1.................2 ...........3.............4............5........... ............6

incend............800............................400........................400..................... ...........400

thermal..............................(thrown)..... .......................................2-3.5k

Powershot......................................... .....................1-2k

powershot .................................................. ............................................1-2k

railshot .................................................. .................................................. .....1.5-3.2k

 

You get the damage i speak of in the 3.5-6 second range. The fist couple ticks of Incend missile isn't important simply because the damage in inconsequential when they are at 100%. It gets increasingly more valuable as they approach 30%. If they are in the open, then unload on to pretty much finish them off.

 

They also have 5sec to line of sight you (during tracer and unload due to the inability of you to move in that time) while pyro's are only stationary 3 sec (for the 2 unloads). In theory, if you can land all of these then you are close/on par but in practice once most players get hit by the tracer, they LoS asap and its alot harder to land that rotation consistently; especially if your starting from range. I could then go into interrupts and how you all arsenals are more likely to get hit by them to disrupt your rotation (and messing up your unload really destroys your burst).

 

So to summarize, in theory, with the numbers you presented, you can, but in practice and my experience, i don't think you have to consistency to land the entire rotation on an enemy the same way the pyrotech does. I think being able to land that incend and thermal det while running up close to the target is the big difference maker.

 

You make a good point though.

so i dont have time for the graph but if you cast TM, a soon as it goes off you cast HS, as soon as it goes off you hit unload (no GCD on unload so those three go off almost instantly) the TM/HS/unload FIRST HIT all hit at the same time, that is time = zero... 3 second cast on unload followed by an instant cast rail shot ... 3.1 seconds all the damage is done.... as for consistancy, interrupt/knockback will stop it but otherwise i can crank that combo out at will

*edit yes of course i can be los'ed but honestly, reaction times put into play, almost nobody los's within 3 seconds of the first hit, most people dont even realise they are my target until the second tick of unload. I also know better than to attack someone set up to LOS me with that rotation, when i decide to run with that combo it hits fully 80-90% of the time, but i actually pay attention to the surroundings unlike some. */edit