Still dont get it? Trolling? No... Obervations and simple math...yes. Ask yourself why BW buffed expertise if it really was on par with PvE gear? Are your seriously suggesting wearing recuit gear is better than wearing Rakata? I'll say it again expertise ONLY increases bonus damage/healing. What goes into your bonus damage? Ta-da..... MAIN STAT/POW/FORCE/TECH.

 

Do you want 16% increase on 600 bonus damage or 700 bonus damage? That does not even account for contributions of main stat to crit rating. As I said before, mitigation is even more muted, and healing is a joke. I also would guess you don't have any PvE gear to even compare it, so... I am using real stats to compare this you are just talking out of ur azz.... With the buff given in 1.2 it is on par with PvE stuff tier for tier.

 

Not how it works. As I said missinformed.

 

Its about top end damage. Not your bonus damage, its a bonus to your damage when its all added together.

 

Say you deal 5000 damage in PvE gear and the opponent in PvP gear deals 4000 damage.

 

You have 0 expertise, he has 17% worth of damage increase and 14% DR.

 

5000 x 86% = 4300

4000 x 117% = 4680

 

So even if you manage to deal much higher damage in PvE gear, here in my example its 20% higher before adding in expertise (lowest possible expertise really) , you still deal less vs someone in just recruit gear.

 

Then the gap gets even larger between BM and no expertise (no matter what PvE gear you wear). The current recruit gear is on par with champion gear, statwise its in between centurion and champion gear, but in expertise its higher than champion with about 2% units. And even pre 1.2 centurion geared players used to wreck rakata geared players in PvP. Now expertise makes an even larger difference, so I dont see how rakata suddenly became better than it was vs centurion gear in PvP pre 1.2. Or do you think that blue automatically = bad?

 

Current recruit rating is higher than any full modded level 50 entry gear. Same with its weapon, much higher damage than a modded weapon with level 50 epic mods.

 

Level 50 daily armoring/barrel/hilt = 126 rating.

Recruit gear = 128 rating.

 

Also as your last statement imples. Feel free to go up against a BM geared player in Rakata thinking they are "on par" for PvP purposes.

Edited May 10, 2012 by SneakyErvin

Not how it works. As I said missinformed.

 

Its about top end damage. Not your bonus damage, its a bonus to your damage when its all added together.

 

Say you deal 5000 damage in PvE gear and the opponent in PvP gear deals 4000 damage.

 

You have 0 expertise, he has 17% worth of damage increase and 14% DR.

 

5000 x 86% = 4300

4000 x 117% = 4680

 

380HP on a crit attack????? Makes a huge difference..... ONCE AGAIN... NUMBERS OUT OF UR AZZ!!! AND THIS IS A BEST CASE SCENARIO. Exactly how much crit and end did you give up to get those numbers?

 

 

I think you're missing something about how important expertise is now. I have wrecked people in rakata in nothing but recruit gear. Its like beating a tied up goat. BW has even said that the recruit set is better for pvp than any pve gear.

 

No.. You are missing it. Georg is the Lead on this game, but I HIGHLY doubt he has a clear understanding of how the mathematics impact this game. I saw what he said... I laughed at it.Yeah, maybe there is some great magical formula that works in the background that gives expertise an advantage, but coming from a player that has almost EVERY tier of PvP & PvE equipment, expertise NOW makes it on par with PvE.

 

You don't understand exponential decay. The "BUFF" was slightly changing a multiplier to the log function and adding EXP to the mod and enh slots on BM and higher/adding more EXP to Cent gear(called recruit now), BUT EXPONENTIAL DECAY IS STILL THERE POST 1.2. The more you stack the less it benefits (i.e. In 1.2, 450EXP= 10%, but 900EXP= 18% (instead of 20%; for example))

 

Here are the charts and equations and are damn close to universally accepted by the community.

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/

You need to understand damage is governed by:

1. BW Controlled Base Damage.

2. Player Controlled Bonus Damage (EXPERTISE ONLY AFFECTS THIS).

More questions:

Q: Since the EXP difference between Recruit and BM is small, why is it such a noticeable difference when you are in a WZ?

A: Better main/sec stats (I.E. in the GRAND scheme of things main/sec stats DO matter in PvP).

 

Q: Does -6MAIN = +69EXP(1.71%)

A: Questionable at best... and this is a conservative number.

 

Q: What is the full set trade off from Recruit gear to PvE L49/50 epics?

A:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/79e226c3-f042-441d-818a-5fb24469272d

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/ddd72a49-1498-414c-83b1-fdaccb8effa2

 

Here is a side by side to make it easier…

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/

Notice….18.2% added to a 519 Damage Bonus= 614HP(less than 100HP difference), but I have a 1620HP advantage. You are negating 15% of my damage of 490.7…. Again, less than a 100HP difference. Please notice my 12%(!) advantage in surge. On a crit attack, I just outpaced your vaunted mitigation. AND this comparison assumes I don’t use equal tiered relics on the PvE toon(Champ/Columi are really on the same tier). I have looked at the equations over, and over, and over again even IF expertise affected tool tip ratings (which I have never been able to prove mathematically), we still are talking about drops in the bucket on a tier to tier basis. Overall the change in expertise was to boost a VERY deflated PvP stat to begin with. I screamed to the high heavens that expertise need to be buff because of the above reasons and people said I was crazy. Then BW buffed it. So……… the math I used, in conjunction with my in game observations (on self healing in open world PvP!), and BW actions in 1.2 has shown me that I was right:

 

If a Rakata player is losing to you in recruit gear, then they blow and you are SUPA LEET... Plain and simple. Do you have Rakata pieces? I STILL would guess the answer in no....... Conversely, I have 6 Rakata pieces, all the BM pieces, 3WH, and a shiz ton of columi/champ/cent stuff. Hell, I even bought a freaking RECRUIT implant last night just to give you REAL numbers on the trade off with my crit crafted implant (all on my previous post). Tried it all in PVP; pre and post 1.2. I sit at ~700EXP. I do just fine and laugh at overpowered marauders in the recruit gear(13k) while I am spiking them down in my "weak" PvE gear and underpowered class(at 18K HP). I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink...

380HP on a crit attack????? Makes a huge difference..... ONCE AGAIN... NUMBERS OUT OF UR AZZ!!! AND THIS IS A BEST CASE SCENARIO. Exactly how much crit and end did you give up to get those numbers?

 

 

 

 

No.. You are missing it. Georg is the Lead on this game, but I HIGHLY doubt he has a clear understanding of how the mathematics impact this game. I saw what he said... I laughed at it.Yeah, maybe there is some great magical formula that works in the background that gives expertise an advantage, but coming from a player that has almost EVERY tier of PvP & PvE equipment, expertise NOW makes it on par with PvE.

 

You don't understand exponential decay. The "BUFF" was slightly changing a multiplier to the log function and adding EXP to the mod and enh slots on BM and higher/adding more EXP to Cent gear(called recruit now), BUT EXPONENTIAL DECAY IS STILL THERE POST 1.2. The more you stack the less it benefits (i.e. In 1.2, 450EXP= 10%, but 900EXP= 18% (instead of 20%; for example))

 

Here are the charts and equations and are damn close to universally accepted by the community.

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/

You need to understand damage is governed by:

1. BW Controlled Base Damage.

2. Player Controlled Bonus Damage (EXPERTISE ONLY AFFECTS THIS).

More questions:

Q: Since the EXP difference between Recruit and BM is small, why is it such a noticeable difference when you are in a WZ?

A: Better main/sec stats (I.E. in the GRAND scheme of things main/sec stats DO matter in PvP).

 

Q: Does -6MAIN = +69EXP(1.71%)

A: Questionable at best... and this is a conservative number.

 

Q: What is the full set trade off from Recruit gear to PvE L49/50 epics?

A:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/79e226c3-f042-441d-818a-5fb24469272d

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/ddd72a49-1498-414c-83b1-fdaccb8effa2

 

Here is a side by side to make it easier…

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/

Notice….18.2% added to a 519 Damage Bonus= 614HP(less than 100HP difference), but I have a 1620HP advantage. You are negating 15% of my damage of 490.7…. Again, less than a 100HP difference. Please notice my 12%(!) advantage in surge. On a crit attack, I just outpaced your vaunted mitigation. AND this comparison assumes I don’t use equal tiered relics on the PvE toon(Champ/Columi are really on the same tier). I have looked at the equations over, and over, and over again even IF expertise affected tool tip ratings (which I have never been able to prove mathematically), we still are talking about drops in the bucket on a tier to tier basis. Overall the change in expertise was to boost a VERY deflated PvP stat to begin with. I screamed to the high heavens that expertise need to be buff because of the above reasons and people said I was crazy. Then BW buffed it. So……… the math I used, in conjunction with my in game observations (on self healing in open world PvP!), and BW actions in 1.2 has shown me that I was right:

 

If a Rakata player is losing to you in recruit gear, then they blow and you are SUPA LEET... Plain and simple. Do you have Rakata pieces? I STILL would guess the answer in no....... Conversely, I have 6 Rakata pieces, all the BM pieces, 3WH, and a shiz ton of columi/champ/cent stuff. Hell, I even bought a freaking RECRUIT implant last night just to give you REAL numbers on the trade off with my crit crafted implant (all on my previous post). Tried it all in PVP; pre and post 1.2. I sit at ~700EXP. I do just fine and laugh at overpowered marauders in the recruit gear(13k) while I am spiking them down in my "weak" PvE gear and underpowered class(at 18K HP). I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink...

 

You're struggling to compare yourself to someone in Recruit gear..

 

RECRUIT GEAR

 

If you only fight people in recruit gear, I want to play on your server...However using Rakata at any point in combat is bloody moronic, because the higher the PvP gears, the more it outpaces rakata.

 

Someone in BM or higher gear is going to hit you harder then someone in Recruit.. that is the simple fact of it.

Would you insist the coach let you play your next football, soccer, baseball, etc ... game if you weren't wearing your cletes? "But coach, I couldn't afford my cletes. I should still be able to play!!"

 

Nope. It hurts the team, and you.

 

When I hit 50 on my BH. I tried getting into a HM Kaon group. The leader inspected me and apologized that he would not let me in the group since my gear was underpar and they would not be able to finish with me in the group. He suggested I do my dailies and run HM BT, BP, etc to gear up.

 

I got it. Understood. I wouldn't want me in there either if I were to be the cause of failure.

 

The same should apply to PVP. If you are going to be a detriment to your team. Why join? It's common sense.

 

To all of those screaming "You were 50 once....let them play." Yeah, you're right. I was 50 once and I geared up so I could actually compete and contribute towards winning.

Just make it free so people have no excuse for queueing with 0 expertise and 12k hp.

Recruit Gear is simply a business decision.

 

You can assume you, as a newbie 50, means your team is going to start in a disadvantageous position.

 

If you wear full Recruit gear, your team is slightly less disadvantaged than before. This means you'll win slightly more often, so you'll gear up slightly faster. You being stronger also makes it more likely you'll hit the 8 necessary medals, so even if you lose the game you're still going to get better rewards and cut down the gearing up time.

 

So is 300K a worthy investment to cut down some time for gearing? Well it depends on how good you think you are. If you believe your team is doomed so you'll just lose your way to BM gear while getting 3 mdals a game, then you don't need it. If you've more self-esteem than that, you can certainly make an argument for either way.

i seen a level 50 come in to a warzone last night iwth 10k hp. we all told the eprson to leave and go get the recruit gear. this persons reasponse was "why? i am poor, besides i am not causing you to lose" this person had 0 kills 15 deaths.

 

the point is this excuse about not having credits is a joke. the reason these people do this is they are LAZY POSs. they hit 50 and decided they were not going to do anymore quest. GO OUT AND DO SOME QUEST FOR AN HOUR OR SO AND YOU WILL HAVE PLENTY OF CREDITS. you make 500k for doing the Corellia quest.

 

stop using excuses for your LAZY aditudes and go out and earn some credits.

 

there should be a requirment to have recruit gear for entering warzones at 50.

i seen a level 50 come in to a warzone last night iwth 10k hp. we all told the eprson to leave and go get the recruit gear. this persons reasponse was "why? i am poor, besides i am not causing you to lose" this person had 0 kills 15 deaths.

.

 

As a side note, do you know how hard it is to die 15 times in a WZ? When I ran my alt Sorc and still thought I was on my tank so I charged into melee range of anyone I saw, I still only died 12 times. I died 15 times on a game where I was camped by the enemy at spawn in Voidstar where I pretty much died the moment I jumped down. I'm actually curious what's the record for the most number of deaths in a WZ.

Q: Since the EXP difference between Recruit and BM is small, why is it such a noticeable difference when you are in a WZ?

A: Better main/sec stats (I.E. in the GRAND scheme of things main/sec stats DO matter in PvP).

 

You forgot RATING, that is a HUGE part of disparity between gear. Also, BM/WH provides a SET BONUS recruit does not. Also, Expertise has a very Different Hard/soft cap then most other stats (that secret formula you were babbling about is in front of you nose).

edit: oh and Pre 1.2 you werent sitting at 700 EXP

Edited May 10, 2012 by Krayshawn

Would you insist the coach let you play your next football, soccer, baseball, etc ... game if you weren't wearing your cletes? "But coach, I couldn't afford my cletes. I should still be able to play!!"

 

Nope. It hurts the team, and you.

 

When I hit 50 on my BH. I tried getting into a HM Kaon group. The leader inspected me and apologized that he would not let me in the group since my gear was underpar and they would not be able to finish with me in the group. He suggested I do my dailies and run HM BT, BP, etc to gear up.

 

I got it. Understood. I wouldn't want me in there either if I were to be the cause of failure.

 

The same should apply to PVP. If you are going to be a detriment to your team. Why join? It's common sense.

 

To all of those screaming "You were 50 once....let them play." Yeah, you're right. I was 50 once and I geared up so I could actually compete and contribute towards winning.

 

I like your analogy, it's true.

Also, Now people should have NO problem being geared (for pvp) at new 50. PvP (while your better then everyone else) Pre-50; i recommend 47-50 ( come on, your going to spend your time at 50 pvping anyway) get maxed coms, maxed valor. Now you have two options. You can basically either buy Full BM at 50 or a WH piece.

I asked in another thread about combat dummies & expertise. If a PvP dummy demonstrated the importance of expertise (recruit gear) over other stats, that might make it more obvious to the skeptics.

 

Also, does expertise apply in dueling? If yes, you could help educate someone by doing a very controlled duel e.g. standing still and methodically taking turns. You could do one duel with the PvE gear and one with recruit and observe the difference in damage done/taken.

 

Can anyone confirm or refute the idea that expertise applies in duels and/or open world PvP?

You're struggling to compare yourself to someone in Recruit gear..

 

RECRUIT GEAR

 

If you only fight people in recruit gear, I want to play on your server...However using Rakata at any point in combat is bloody moronic, because the higher the PvP gears, the more it outpaces rakata.

 

Someone in BM or higher gear is going to hit you harder then someone in Recruit.. that is the simple fact of it.

 

Yes it is pretty simple, you said it... "someone in BM will hit you harder than recruit" even though the EXP percentage difference is 4%.

4 effin%, so why do BM hit SO much harder that Recruits? Because the main/secs are higher......... Main & secs are SIGNFICANTLY HIGHER on PvE gear tier for tier......... so you can outpace expertise gains.

 

 

I'm not comparing myself to someone in recruit. It is recruit to lvl 49/50 epics, BM to rakata, WH to Campaign, and everything else in the middle. How else can I explain "tier for tier"? Here I'll try again...

 

Should I wear Rakata or WH? WH is better in some cases, not in others (due to some secondary tradeoffs).

Should I wear Rakata or BM? Umm.... it really dont matter, they are pretty close in most cases (shown in my last post although at the recruit v. lvl49/50 level).

Should I wear Rakata or Recruit? Ummmm...... what?

 

 

Do I have to do an askmrrobot for BM V Rakata too?

Edited May 10, 2012 by L-RANDLE

These types of threads are funny.

 

I come into it thinking "Okay, this request isn't too unreasonable. They have gear requirements in WoW for queuing for dungeons/raids, they can pull it off in this game, especially with how easy it is to obtain recruit gear. I'd think that most people would feel the same way."

 

Wrong. lol.

 

I don't think there will ever be a single topic everyone will agree on, yet people keep arguing their points as if they'll magically make everyone see things the way they do. I guess those people just like to argue for arguement's sake.

 

Either way: DOWN WITH THE JERKS QUEUING WITH 0 EXPERTISE!!

As a side note, do you know how hard it is to die 15 times in a WZ? When I ran my alt Sorc and still thought I was on my tank so I charged into melee range of anyone I saw, I still only died 12 times. I died 15 times on a game where I was camped by the enemy at spawn in Voidstar where I pretty much died the moment I jumped down. I'm actually curious what's the record for the most number of deaths in a WZ.

 

don't get me wrong the guy was trying but with 10k you are 2 shots dead. the person would die and run right back into the fight and die again. it was funny to watch him do it, cause he was really trying hard for the most deaths. oh ya this was a sage with 10k. you can imagine what we were seeing.

You forgot RATING, that is a HUGE part of disparity between gear. Also, BM/WH provides a SET BONUS recruit does not. Also, Expertise has a very Different Hard/soft cap then most other stats (that secret formula you were babbling about is in front of you nose).

edit: oh and Pre 1.2 you werent sitting at 700 EXP

 

2 rating points per piece means exactly what? MAX 32 armor rating? 2400 or 2432.... Real game changing there...

Yes, I was not at 700.... BY CHOICE!!!!! Basically after 1.2, I swapped out my mods and enhan for the PvP equiv. It was free +50 EXP per piece for raiders and I didn't nerf ANYTHING..... And guess what.... I bought 7 pairs on BM gloves. Can you explain why I did that?

380HP on a crit attack????? Makes a huge difference..... ONCE AGAIN... NUMBERS OUT OF UR AZZ!!! AND THIS IS A BEST CASE SCENARIO. Exactly how much crit and end did you give up to get those numbers?

 

 

 

 

No.. You are missing it. Georg is the Lead on this game, but I HIGHLY doubt he has a clear understanding of how the mathematics impact this game. I saw what he said... I laughed at it.Yeah, maybe there is some great magical formula that works in the background that gives expertise an advantage, but coming from a player that has almost EVERY tier of PvP & PvE equipment, expertise NOW makes it on par with PvE.

 

You don't understand exponential decay. The "BUFF" was slightly changing a multiplier to the log function and adding EXP to the mod and enh slots on BM and higher/adding more EXP to Cent gear(called recruit now), BUT EXPONENTIAL DECAY IS STILL THERE POST 1.2. The more you stack the less it benefits (i.e. In 1.2, 450EXP= 10%, but 900EXP= 18% (instead of 20%; for example))

 

Here are the charts and equations and are damn close to universally accepted by the community.

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/

You need to understand damage is governed by:

1. BW Controlled Base Damage.

2. Player Controlled Bonus Damage (EXPERTISE ONLY AFFECTS THIS).

More questions:

Q: Since the EXP difference between Recruit and BM is small, why is it such a noticeable difference when you are in a WZ?

A: Better main/sec stats (I.E. in the GRAND scheme of things main/sec stats DO matter in PvP).

 

Q: Does -6MAIN = +69EXP(1.71%)

A: Questionable at best... and this is a conservative number.

 

Q: What is the full set trade off from Recruit gear to PvE L49/50 epics?

A:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/79e226c3-f042-441d-818a-5fb24469272d

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/ddd72a49-1498-414c-83b1-fdaccb8effa2

 

Here is a side by side to make it easier…

http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/

Notice….18.2% added to a 519 Damage Bonus= 614HP(less than 100HP difference), but I have a 1620HP advantage. You are negating 15% of my damage of 490.7…. Again, less than a 100HP difference. Please notice my 12%(!) advantage in surge. On a crit attack, I just outpaced your vaunted mitigation. AND this comparison assumes I don’t use equal tiered relics on the PvE toon(Champ/Columi are really on the same tier). I have looked at the equations over, and over, and over again even IF expertise affected tool tip ratings (which I have never been able to prove mathematically), we still are talking about drops in the bucket on a tier to tier basis. Overall the change in expertise was to boost a VERY deflated PvP stat to begin with. I screamed to the high heavens that expertise need to be buff because of the above reasons and people said I was crazy. Then BW buffed it. So……… the math I used, in conjunction with my in game observations (on self healing in open world PvP!), and BW actions in 1.2 has shown me that I was right:

 

If a Rakata player is losing to you in recruit gear, then they blow and you are SUPA LEET... Plain and simple. Do you have Rakata pieces? I STILL would guess the answer in no....... Conversely, I have 6 Rakata pieces, all the BM pieces, 3WH, and a shiz ton of columi/champ/cent stuff. Hell, I even bought a freaking RECRUIT implant last night just to give you REAL numbers on the trade off with my crit crafted implant (all on my previous post). Tried it all in PVP; pre and post 1.2. I sit at ~700EXP. I do just fine and laugh at overpowered marauders in the recruit gear(13k) while I am spiking them down in my "weak" PvE gear and underpowered class(at 18K HP). I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink...

 

Where do you get the idea that expertise only effects bonus damage? It is stated nowhere. It buffs damage done while in a pvp situation, it doesnt increase your damage bonus stat. Same with the damage reduction, its not something that effects your bonus damage, it effects total damage.

 

Even in the graph they clearly state expertise is the way to go after 1.2, because it has that much of an impact. Pre 1.2 is a whole different story.

 

But gaining a flat 18% bonus to your damage dealt is alot, just like take x% less damage aswell.

don't get me wrong the guy was trying but with 10k you are 2 shots dead. the person would die and run right back into the fight and die again. it was funny to watch him do it, cause he was really trying hard for the most deaths. oh ya this was a sage with 10k. you can imagine what we were seeing.

 

Yeah, I was just pointing out you got to be very determined to die 15 times. Just being bad won't get you 15 deaths.

don't get me wrong the guy was trying but with 10k you are 2 shots dead. the person would die and run right back into the fight and die again. it was funny to watch him do it, cause he was really trying hard for the most deaths. oh ya this was a sage with 10k. you can imagine what we were seeing.

 

This reminds me of when i was on my alt, there was a level 11 sage who kept charging my 41 jug, the whole game he came after me (it was VS, pretty long game). He tried, and failed terribly, i never saw him use one force attack, all saber... lol.

I asked in another thread about combat dummies & expertise. If a PvP dummy demonstrated the importance of expertise (recruit gear) over other stats, that might make it more obvious to the skeptics.

 

Also, does expertise apply in dueling? If yes, you could help educate someone by doing a very controlled duel e.g. standing still and methodically taking turns. You could do one duel with the PvE gear and one with recruit and observe the difference in damage done/taken.

 

Can anyone confirm or refute the idea that expertise applies in duels and/or open world PvP?

 

Expertise says increases damage done to players and I'm not sure why we have a reason to believe that won't affect duels/open world PvP. I mean, anything's possible, but there's just no reason to believe otherwise without proof on the contrary.

 

The PvP dummy does not appear to actually take Expertise into account. On my WH characer with 1260 Expertise, I use FL and get that it does like 20% less damage than its tooltip with. However, I switch to an alt and with 0 Expertise and it still looks like I do 20% less damage than tooltip on the same dummy. i can't quite prove it yet because my alt's attack have a range of damage so I haven't worked out all the ranges, but it should be pretty trivial for anyone with a SI alt with 0 expertise to verify.

It's also disrespectful to think that people who don't buy the recruit gear are actually trying to hurt their teammates... I'm not going to lie, when I hit 50 I had barely 80k left after buying my skills for my rotation... Recruit gear is pretty expensive for a freshly hit 50. And keep in mind even if you waited 30 minutes to an hour to days, that person has waited JUST AS LONG AS YOU, and not only that, you were in the exact same boat as he or she was.

 

Agreed. This thread is one of the reasons I hate PvP, all the elitist rubbish.

Where do you get the idea that expertise only effects bonus damage? It is stated nowhere. It buffs damage done while in a pvp situation, it doesnt increase your damage bonus stat. Same with the damage reduction, its not something that effects your bonus damage, it effects total damage.

I swear man.... Don't you think I know this? Also please tell me where is says it affects 'total damage", it says "PvP Damage Boost" , that could mean either or, and I said even if that were the case where TOTAL was increased your example showed crit increase of 380HP!!!! I have tested it on Ilum have you?

 

Even in the graph they clearly state expertise is the way to go after 1.2, because it has that much of an impact. Pre 1.2 is a whole different story.

This was shown PRIOR to the release of 1.2. the equation still holds true, but the "advice" is not based on ANY comparision. I just gave you one...

 

Do I really need to do a askmrrobot AGAIN? You want a Rakata v. Recruit? Rakata v BM? Tell me.

Edited May 10, 2012 by L-RANDLE

Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.

I love PvP but if you want to make this suggestion you have to make it also that you can't enter a raid wearing any gear with expertise. Fair is fair.

Expertise says increases damage done to players and I'm not sure why we have a reason to believe that won't affect duels/open world PvP. I mean, anything's possible, but there's just no reason to believe otherwise without proof on the contrary.

 

I don't know one way or another. Like you, I see a variety of possibilities. Having expertise affect duels / open world PVP seems the most reasonable but I want concrete data confirming this. I don't have a level 50 yet so I can't do a comparison of recruit gear vs PvE year.

 

I hope to hit 50 this weekend and get my recruit gear. At that point, if others have not reported on the topic of using duels to theorycraft expertise I will report.

 

Regards,

--jfc

I don't know one way or another. Like you, I see a variety of possibilities. Having expertise affect duels / open world PVP seems the most reasonable but I want concrete data confirming this. I don't have a level 50 yet so I can't do a comparison of recruit gear vs PvE year.

 

I hope to hit 50 this weekend and get my recruit gear. At that point, if others have not reported on the topic of using duels to theorycraft expertise I will report.

 

Regards,

--jfc

 

Here is some REAL numbers I did prior to 1.2.

[EDIT] http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=388132&page=4

Read note # 32 & #33

Edited May 10, 2012 by L-RANDLE

I swear man.... Don't you think I know this? Also please tell me where is says it affects 'total damage", it says "PvP Damage Boost" , that could mean either or, and I said even if that were the case where TOTAL was increased your example showed crit increase of 380HP!!!! I have tested it on Ilum have you?

 

This was shown PRIOR to the release of 1.2. the equation still holds true, but the "advice" is not based on ANY comparision. I just gave you one...

 

Do I really need to do a askmrrobot AGAIN? You want a Rakata v. Recruit? Rakata v BM? Tell me.

 

It doesnt matter what you try to prove with your deluded ideas. A pure 18% damage boost is better than a few secondary stats (the thing that the expertise slot occupies). It also has a far more forgiving DR than surge and crit.

 

And even that was shown prior to the release of 1.2 it still holds true that expertise is the way to go, otherwise the suggestion would probably have been changed.

 

I also see nothing in the mr.robot links that backs up anything you say, seeing as how the page is broken and not adding things up right. You will notice what i mean if you look at your own links.

 

Also, to quote what expertise says.

 

Increases damage dealt when attacking a player or companion character.

Reduces damage suffered when attacked by a player or companion character.

Increases health restored when healing a player or companion character involved in PvP combat.

 

None of those lines imply it buffs bonus damage like Force Might/Unnatural might does.

 

And I was very kind in my earlier damage comparison and gave you a 20% higher damage off the bat just for wearing PvE gear with higher secondary stats. There difference in game would probably not be as high as 20%.

 

Maybe if it was recruit vs rakata, maybe. But I doubt the damage would be that high. In which case the benefit is much higher while wearing recruit gear in pvp. Its not about 1vs1 situations, its group PvP. Not wearing it means you are harder to heal, have much less survivability and less damage versus pvp targets.

 

But hey if you want to be on equal footing vs a recruit geared pvper, go right ahead and wear rakata, just be ready to get mutilated by BM/WH geared people. Because they will most likely have the same or higher hp as you, same power, same surge, a bit less crit (if modded right) and deal 20% or more extra damage to you while you deal 18%+ less damage to them.

 

That is a large gap.

 

p.s. you can also mix and match to get the best secondary stats on your recruit gear.