Well, considering how Jadus treated his own daughter, I'm not sure that's a good place for her to end up. But, I can probably cope as long as when we find them Vaylin joins me and Zhorrid in killing him. Wins all around.

I still think Jadus will be the next 'big bag' so you might get your chance.

Back to Vaylin ... uhmmm ... maybe something similar to Nathema? If the planet can come back to life, maybe the same process can work on Vaylin too?

I still think Jadus will be the next 'big bag' so you might get your chance.

 

Back to Vaylin ... uhmmm ... maybe something similar to Nathema? If the planet can come back to life, maybe the same process can work on Vaylin too?

I'm expecting Jadus to come back. I'd have preferred it if it had been him instead of Malgus, if only because his story didn't end yet. I'd like to be allowed to end it.

As for the Nathema thing, that seems utterly reasonable to me. His death returning her spirit to her body is in no way less reasonable than life returning to Nathema. If it really was Valkorion that kills her and not the injury, which we've seen others survive, it works fine. Perhaps it takes her a while to wake, or she's on ice/carbonite, or she escaped in the confusion. That all seems plausible, given what we've seen.

I like her saving herself. Maybe if she's on ice we have the choice of letting her out or keeping her trapped or finishing her off or something, but I like her doing most of the work.

Might also return Arcann to life, but then, since Vaylin bombed the region after we kill him, maybe not. Maybe if she recovered the body? Ultimately, though, we already have the option to let him live and even to give him his DS look, so I don't know that it's necessary.

Subscribing to the thread, Vaylin deserved much better.

It is very weird that she is just told to be “broken” and killed off, even though Arcann was redeemed through nearly brainwashing force ritual, the same thing could have worked on Vaylin, especially after what we got from the trailer about her being tortured and brainwashed. Also expected more for Senya after the trailer, but she is either in coma for most of the time or killed off in the beginning.

Listening to Vitiate/Valk is just stupid, even without Vaylin stuff he is still the guy who consumes life’s on planets and is able to take control of other bodies and minds for the sake of power. So when he tells us to claim the throne and the outlander does not see anything suspicious about it, it makes no sense. And the way he treated his children only adds to that.

Unfortunately there probably won’t be any official continuation of her story(or anything Zakuul related), even though there are many ways to bring her back, or at least have a bonus mission/chapter where her soul is properly put to rest.

I think there's a lot of people misunderstand the Voss ritual that Arcann went through. It was not brainwashing. Essentially, emotions are chemical reactions, and after all the abuse Arcann suffered he had a chronic chemical imbalance manifesting itself in hatred and rage. The ritual merely reset the imbalance allowing him to choose rationally. He can still choose his former ways if PC chooses to murder his mother.

Vaylin is a totally different case. Her very mind was altered, she couldn't choose differently. This wasn't a chemical imbalance. Also not even the Force can fix everything. Otherwise, Qui-Gon wouldn't have died.

I think there's a lot of people misunderstand the Voss ritual that Arcann went through. It was not brainwashing. Essentially, emotions are chemical reactions, and after all the abuse Arcann suffered he had a chronic chemical imbalance manifesting itself in hatred and rage. The ritual merely reset the imbalance allowing him to choose rationally. He can still choose his former ways if PC chooses to murder his mother.

 

Vaylin is a totally different case. Her very mind was altered, she couldn't choose differently. This wasn't a chemical imbalance. Also not even the Force can fix everything. Otherwise, Qui-Gon wouldn't have died.

Yeah, you've said this before. And it makes zero sense to me. Vaylin's mind was altered by the Force. She was under mind control. She had a ritual done to make her the way she is. That should mean that a ritual should be able to free her. Maybe, by using the ritual on her, she would revert to a still traumatized woman, because she was also tortured, but the ritual helping her makes perfect sense.

Arcann was traumatized by abuse and neglect. The Force was never shown to be a part of it. Yes, that can change his brain chemistry, but using the Force to cure that is dicey at best. Using it to cure him from being influenced by the Dark Side might be all right, if that's even the case, but curing his trauma this way is a seriously messed up message.

Not only could, and I would argue should, the ritual have been used for Vaylin to free her from what was done to her by a monster, it would have been a much, much stronger story for Arcann to come to terms with his trauma and to be able to choose a different path. Instead, we get the ableist narrative that his problems will cause him to lash out if he is not "cured" by magic. He is never allowed to become a better man purely of his own volition, whether you view the ritual as brainwashing or a cure.

And the imagery of that entire scene is much too close to that of Vaylin in the trailer for my tastes, though I try not to view it as the same. It's hard sometimes.

And they were so very close, too. They had him make the decision to protect his mother. They didn't have him doing it by harming his sister, but just by trying to separate them. They could have built on that, Senya caring for him and helping and him simply getting better slowly through hard work. It would have been both so much better and would have been Star Wars at its best. And then the two of them try to reach out to Vaylin, perhaps succeeding, perhaps not, but at least trying one more time. Instead, no, a mentally ill person is cured by magic, and another mentally ill person has to die for being broken. He can't save himself, and she can't be saved at all, and even the attempt is too much to ask. You'll forgive us if that doesn't sit well.

Now, maybe you want to say that the codex entry supports you, and maybe it does. But, even if that's true, the same writers wrote it. They put in an excuse for the above ableist nonsense. That doesn't really earn them any points.

Subscribing to the thread, Vaylin deserved much better.

 

It is very weird that she is just told to be “broken” and killed off, even though Arcann was redeemed through nearly brainwashing force ritual, the same thing could have worked on Vaylin, especially after what we got from the trailer about her being tortured and brainwashed. Also expected more for Senya after the trailer, but she is either in coma for most of the time or killed off in the beginning.

 

Listening to Vitiate/Valk is just stupid, even without Vaylin stuff he is still the guy who consumes life’s on planets and is able to take control of other bodies and minds for the sake of power. So when he tells us to claim the throne and the outlander does not see anything suspicious about it, it makes no sense. And the way he treated his children only adds to that.

 

Unfortunately there probably won’t be any official continuation of her story(or anything Zakuul related), even though there are many ways to bring her back, or at least have a bonus mission/chapter where her soul is properly put to rest.

Welcome!

I thought for a long time that Arcann was brainwashed by the ritual, too. I once wrote that the message of the expansions is get brainwashed or you have to die. Vaylin broke free (though I don't really buy that she was ever truly free of anything but the stinking command phrase), and Arcann if brainwashed lives, if not, he dies.

I don't any longer. I still feel the imagery was poorly thought out, but for my own ability to enjoy the game I have to assume that Arcann was released from a form of brainwashing by the ritual. Even magically healed from trauma irks me, so I created my own story to accept it. As I mentioned, I still don't LIKE it, but I can accept it.

But I'll never be over completely the fact that they made my character, of their own free will (we are told), use the command phrase to hurt her. No regret, only mockery. No plan to take her alive. Their apparent need to keep driving this abuse victim to her knees, to kill her again and again. They apparently thought we would find that fun, and quite a few people did.

If you spare Arcann and dare to criticize him when he meets up with you, you even say, "If you hadn't interfered she would be dead!" And he bloody well apologizes for it. For accidentally stopping you from killing his sister while she's helpless from what Valkorion did to her.

This is the kind of story that needed to be handled with sensitivity and care. I will always maintain that if you can't do that, just give out happy endings. The result here was vile. I try not to speak too ill of the writers these days, because of the level of pressure, but this kind of thing needs to be learned from. And, sadly, I see no indication that it is.

And, yeah, them bringing her back, even without a story, would go a long way to making up for this thing.

Yeah, you've said this before. And it makes zero sense to me. Vaylin's mind was altered by the Force. She was under mind control. She had a ritual done to make her the way she is.

This is where you are completely and totally wrong. Please forgive me, if I sound harsh, but Vaylin's psychotic break was not altered by the Force. Yes, Valky did torture his children by messing with their heads with Force manipulation, and emotional abuse. However, Jarek's methods were not Force Based. He experimented with Force Users to discover a way to break them without Force rituals. The Nathema Zealots and the meditation rituals in the mini-films only added to the process but were not the cause of her conditioning. Go through Nathema and listen to Jarek's journals. The Force had very little if anything to do with her conditioning and the Force cannot heal that kind of damage in any legends or canon.

Arcann had a completely different but no less horrific type of damage done to him that the Force could heal to an extent. He's still not healed completely he never can be. All he has now is the ability to rationally make the choices to decide his life's path.

Vaylin's mind is not capable of making choices until you use the Holocron on her Force Ghost.

This is where you are completely and totally wrong. Please forgive me, if I sound harsh, but Vaylin's psychotic break was not altered by the Force. Yes, Valky did torture his children by messing with their heads with Force manipulation, and emotional abuse. However, Jarek's methods were not Force Based. He experimented with Force Users to discover a way to break them without Force rituals. The Nathema Zealots and the meditation rituals in the mini-films only added to the process but were not the cause of her conditioning. Go through Nathema and listen to Jarek's journals. The Force had very little if anything to do with her conditioning and the Force cannot heal that kind of damage in any legends or canon.

 

Arcann had a completely different but no less horrific type of damage done to him that the Force could heal to an extent. He's still not healed completely he never can be. All he has now is the ability to rationally make the choices to decide his life's path.

 

Vaylin's mind is not capable of making choices until you use the Holocron on her Force Ghost.

Totally wrong. Yes, of course. A process with chanting zealots around her, the tattooing, the very fact of the Nathema void in the force, and I am not expected to see that as part of the process that destroyed her? The very command phrase, the fact that it caused her a physical reaction, the fact that it made her eyes go purple, and I'm suppose to think the Force wasn't involved? Energy beams from the machinery being what reversed the conditioning, and I'm supposed to believe the Force is not involved? That it was JUST the torture?

Totally wrong. Yes, of course. I mean, I said specifically that a counter ritual might not be enough. But, you cut that out and ignored it. So, here we are.

I've tried multiple times to explain why this thing is a harmful mess. I have never once argued that your precious boy shouldn't have been saved, I've only argued that the method of it could have been better. And all you do is pull out the "better dead than hurting" ableist nonsense, or "oh she's just too far gone". And now "totally wrong" for seeing space wizards that may as well have summoned a demon to possess her and somehow I'm totally wrong for thinking that they used a Force ritual as a part of the control?

"Incapable of making choices until you use the holocron on her". I disagree. She made quite a few good (evil) decisions. Her mind wasn't destroyed in the manner you suggest. And were that true, maybe we could have done it on her instead of her ghost, so, again, "killing her is the only option" becomes non-sensical. Nothing to stop the story from going that way. But, whatever. "She's broken" means she has to die, "he's broken" but gets the Force ritual. OK.

And, since I know how this goes: "But the Holocron doesn't work that way!" Yeah, probably not. But it could have. Just as the ritual could heal a broken mind. Just not hers, apparently. Nothing can save her or heal her until she's dead.

Ultimately, you have ignored my concerns multiple times, as you did here by just cutting most of them out and shouting at me that I'm "totally wrong" and then giving me the whole "I'm sorry if that's harsh". No, you're not, or you wouldn't have said it. And I'm not wrong. I have a clearly different interpretation of events. You can interpret things to support your guy being able to be saved while telling me I must be wrong for thinking we should have been allowed to treat her differently if you want. Glad you got your choices. Just would have liked to see more respect for mine, from both fans and the creators of this mess.

Totally wrong. Yes, of course. A process with chanting zealots around her, the tattooing, the very fact of the Nathema void in the force, and I am not expected to see that as part of the process that destroyed her? The very command phrase, the fact that it caused her a physical reaction, the fact that it made her eyes go purple, and I'm suppose to think the Force wasn't involved? Energy beams from the machinery being what reversed the conditioning, and I'm supposed to believe the Force is not involved? That it was JUST the torture?

Now you are cutting out parts of my point. I never said the Force wasn't used in her conditioning, I said it was not the thing that made it impossible for her mind to be fixed. The Force isn't a cure-all.

I've tried multiple times to explain why this thing is a harmful mess. I have never once argued that your precious boy shouldn't have been saved, I've only argued that the method of it could have been better. And all you do is pull out the "better dead than hurting" ableist nonsense, or "oh she's just too far gone". And now "totally wrong" for seeing space wizards that may as well have summoned a demon to possess her and somehow I'm totally wrong for thinking that they used a Force ritual as a part of the control?

Why are you making this about Arcann? They cannot be compared, even if I hated Arcann to the depths of my soul I still would say, they had different injuries, one could be helped by a Force Ritual one could not. Look back to the beginning of this thread, (which I started as a LOVE and ADMIRATION thread if you forgot the title.) I've never ever said she deserved to die ] I've only ever said that it is realistic that not everyone can be saved. That does not mean that I believe Vaylin was evil or deserved her death. I've only ever stated my opinion that her end made sense.

I never said you are totally wrong for your opinions on how Vaylin could or should have been saved. Your facts about her conditioning are totally wrong when all of them: The Mini Movies, the Quests, the Cutscenes, and the Codex Entries are put together.

I have returned from the Netherworld of the Force ... for a week anyway.

I don't really have much to say other than that.

How about the idea that it is enough to make a chapter\mission\flashback about Vaylin (for a certain achievement)?

Bind to this some location or event (although this is not necessary) as a result, it would be possible to collect a certain number of tokens - load them into the terminal - get a key card or holocommunicator - you can call Vaylin as a bonus companion.

The problem is solved.

Now that I think about it more, I would have been fine with Vaylin’s story being tragic, it certainly makes sense considering all that happened to her and could have been really good. Hell, I love Revan and his pre-SOR story and it is one of the most tragic stories in SW.

But here the execution was just bad, and I can’t force myself to like it for reasons mostly outlined in this and other Vaylin threads(Senya giving up, forcing to use command phrase etc). She was a good vilain(pre-KOTET at least) and has a good reason for redemption, or at least an attempt.

In an ideal world we would have a kill option, LS redemption option, DS teaming up option and romance(like, if choices actually mattered). Not sure if i want her resurrected, my choice would probably be force ghost or a chapter/alliance alert where she is put to rest as it would give Vaylin some peace and closure, making the story easier to appreciate while still keeping it tragic. That said, I am not against her resurrection either.

Realistically though, we can only hope for CM companion/subscriber reward but it is better than nothing.

So, yeah, a fellow revanite showing some support)

Now you are cutting out parts of my point. I never said the Force wasn't used in her conditioning, I said it was not the thing that made it impossible for her mind to be fixed. The Force isn't a cure-all.

.

The ritual still should have helped, not healing her mind completely(which is IMO just lazy writing with both Arcann and Vaylin) but removing effect the force had on her(whatever made her eyes go yellow), maybe it would have made her more open to reasoning like in chapter 9, maybe it would have failed, but it was worth a try and no one even considers it.

ty for the post, here hoping 6.0 looks into this part of the story

this is my view on vaylin -

Arcan can be (validly accused of) fratricide, attempted patricide, participation in plotting in patricide, genocide (several times), attempted matricide, and more. More importantly he persues such actions willingly and most of the time of his own will.

Vaylin. Genocide, attempted matricide (but doesn't go through with it in chapter 16 - on the contrary again she is stripped of choice by.. time). Poor vaylin has also been betrayed by both her father and mother (in childhood) and is mostly a victim of circumstance.

Yet, the light side choice is to forgive arcann (cutting him a lot of slack considering some of those crimes have been on the very top of the list of nonos since writing was invented - mythology - religion etc) but to let Vaylin either die, or just be trapped on odessen or within the player?

There is so much tragedy in her story (and considering Senya is really the hero of both sagas - and not the player) it just seems like a lost opportunity to not dwelge into her story rather than arcan, which in comparison has had his personality fleshed out a lot less.

viva vaylin

In comparison

-in Dune (book 3?) a possessed sister by baron arkonnen is pitied and given a lot of slack before of her.. defenestration.

-Aliens, Ripleys motherly relation with Newt which goes and constitute a huge part of her 'hero of circumstance persona' was actually explored in the comics made between Aliens and Alien 3 (newt didn't die in those).

nonetheless, Newts absence in A3 furthers her motivations as the hero that fights for the general good vs a huge evil corporation (why put your neck out , in RL), hence increasing her credibility as 'hero of circumstance'.

In swtor, or rather Kotet/fe the lack of an inconclusive plot line for mother and daughter seriously compromises comprehension of the messages dweldged into thus far.

Vaylin has been victim of great injustice and a light side character/hero that does not attempt to fix address that, is diminished in his role (of hero)

«Arcan can be (validly accused of) fratricide, attempted patricide, participation in plotting in patricide, genocide (several times), attempted matricide, and more. More importantly he persues such actions willingly and most of the time of his own will.»

Well, I would not accuse him of patricide, because it’s not really wrong to kill Vitiate. But all other things are true, genocide being the most important probably.

«Vaylin. Genocide, attempted matricide (but doesn't go through with it in chapter 16 - on the contrary again she is stripped of choice by.. time). Poor vaylin has also been betrayed by both her father and mother (in childhood) and is mostly a victim of circumstance.»

She actually committed less crimes than Arcann with a much more damaged mind. It does not really make sense when everyone in the game thinks she is so much worse than him.

«Yet, the light side choice is to forgive arcann (cutting him a lot of slack considering some of those crimes have been on the very top of the list of nonos since writing was invented - mythology - religion etc) but to let Vaylin either die, or just be trapped on odessen or within the player?»

You can actually say “You are beyond redemption” to Vaylin as LS option and tell Senya “He can’t be saved” about Arcann as DS option, it is weird. I still don’t get why Arcann is so easily forgiven by the Alliance, Koth, Aric, Star Fortress companions not saying a word about it is dumb.

That’s why I prefer to kill them in my playthroughs. They die tragically, but at least they die as well written characters. Senya is sympathetic, Arcann is ****** and the story makes sense at least.

«There is so much tragedy in her story (and considering Senya is really the hero of both sagas - and not the player) it just seems like a lost opportunity to not dwelge into her story rather than arcan, which in comparison has had his personality fleshed out a lot less.»

Would have been much better if Senya was trying to save Vaylin until the end(and our character could have the option too). That said, how is she the hero of both sagas? In KOTFE maybe, in KOTET she is barely present as she is either dead or in a coma.

"Well, I would not accuse him of patricide, because it’s not really wrong to kill Vitiate. But all other things are true, genocide being the most important probably."

vitiate is still his father and Arcann plots to have the outlander kill him and also tries to. While his action seems born of hate (that only applies to the fratricide) his attack on daddy not only seems premeditated but he also reaps the benefits right after and freezes the outlander... in ancient law/religion patricide was always one of the worst crimes. particularly if with intent of inheriting that role (Locke often compares father/king)... Arann also only kills the tyrant to replace him himself.. which transcends the point.

Tyranicide (spelling? ) on the other has been excused at times in history - for example Dante's divine comedy places Brutus and Cassius in the Limbo but would be otherwise be granted access to purgatory - and there is a discussion in the related chapter on tyranicide not being (always a major crime) <while by shakespears time G. Ceasar is viewed as a positive figure, only 200 years earlier he was just viewed as an evil tyrant.

"Would have been much better if Senya was trying to save Vaylin until the end(and our character could have the option too). That said, how is she the hero of both sagas? In KOTFE maybe, in KOTET she is barely present as she is either dead or in a coma"

well when she returns in chapter 8 she is there to face Vaylin, with outlander and arcann, and in chapter 9 she not only is there to buy time for the outlander but is also there to help kill vitiate.

Moreover, the opening cinematic is basically about senya, and since Vaylin who is the main antagonist isnt redeemed into a hero position senya remains the focus. Furthermore (), the whole iokath parenthesis is a huge offtopic from the story so far (and its conclusion) - kotet kotfe is basically about valkorions family, and the only 'way' i make sense of iokath chapters is as preparation for the story after kotet.

So considering the chapters still focusing on valkorion &co 1-3 and from nathema onward (6 or 7?) Senya still however helps further define Vaylins struggle as is a prominent influence even when offscreen. She also is one of the few characters (aside from outlander) whos intentions are clear and 'good' (D&D) and well written (lanas motivation seem very samaritan, even as dark side i don't recall her ever not making choices for the benefit of the greater good (and rarely has a personal agenda).

«vitiate is still his father and Arcann plots to have the outlander kill him and also tries to. While his action seems born of hate (that only applies to the fratricide) his attack on daddy not only seems premeditated but he also reaps the benefits right after and freezes the outlander... in ancient law/religion patricide was always one of the worst crimes. particularly if with intent of inheriting that role (Locke often compares father/king)... Arann also only kills the tyrant to replace him himself.. which transcends the point.

Tyranicide (spelling? ) on the other has been excused at times in history - for example Dante's divine comedy places Brutus and Cassius in the Limbo but would be otherwise be granted access to purgatory - and there is a discussion in the related chapter on tyranicide not being (always a major crime) <while by shakespears time G. Ceasar is viewed as a positive figure, only 200 years earlier he was just viewed as an evil tyrant.»

Oh, am definitely not arguing about all the the stuff Arcann did straight after killing his father, he’s done a lot of stupid crap, but as far as killing Valkorion his rage was justified and I can’t really blame him for that. Considering what Vitiate did to the galaxy, they wouldn’t either.

BTW, is killing Valkorion tyranicide? As bad as he was, he did appear as a benevolent emperor to Zakuul.

«well when she returns in chapter 8 she is there to face Vaylin, with outlander and arcann, and in chapter 9 she not only is there to buy time for the outlander but is also there to help kill vitiate.

Moreover, the opening cinematic is basically about senya, and since Vaylin who is the main antagonist isnt redeemed into a hero position senya remains the focus. Furthermore (), the whole iokath parenthesis is a huge offtopic from the story so far (and its conclusion) - kotet kotfe is basically about valkorions family, and the only 'way' i make sense of iokath chapters is as preparation for the story after kotet.

So considering the chapters still focusing on valkorion &co 1-3 and from nathema onward (6 or 7?) Senya still however helps further define Vaylins struggle as is a prominent influence even when offscreen. She also is one of the few characters (aside from outlander) whos intentions are clear and 'good' (D&D) and well written (lanas motivation seem very samaritan, even as dark side i don't recall her ever not making choices for the benefit of the greater good (and rarely has a personal agenda).»

Yeah, that makes sense, it is a story more focused on the royal family more than anything else, not Senya specifically, but still. She is sometimes annoying with claims like “their blood is on our hands” though, even if intentions are good. Vaylin isn’t really the main antagonist I’d say, she is made to look like one(same with Arcann in KOTFE) but in the end it is still Vitiate(he has been since pretty much the Mandalorian Wars)

On Iokath: Have no idea what they wanted with it, it seems terribly out of place and has no point even after KOTET, but it is most likely a result of BW reducing two expansions into one half.

haven't played the new campaign BUT if Tenebrae gets to live after all of what happened then

- i want Vaylin as a companion

a Bonus Chapter would be a good idea

- maybe find out that the Horizon Guard / Arcann are taking Vaylin's body to the Mother Machine ( Ashaa ) to try and restore it

- here you could have the option to re-recruit Arcann ( if u managed to murked him )

- revivify Vaylin & get her as a companion

- be able to chose their path , encourage Arcann & Vaylin to focus on the dark side OR light

- get companion customization for Light / Dark side versions

- for Vaylin it could be LIGHT = blue eyes , blonde hair ( like in the trailer ) ; DARK could be her crazy yellow eyes + dark hair

haven't played the new campaign BUT if Tenebrae gets to live after all of what happened then

- i want Vaylin as a companion

a Bonus Chapter would be a good idea

- maybe find out that the Horizon Guard / Arcann are taking Vaylin's body to the Mother Machine ( Ashaa ) to try and restore it

- here you could have the option to re-recruit Arcann ( if u managed to murked him )

- revivify Vaylin & get her as a companion

- be able to chose their path , encourage Arcann & Vaylin to focus on the dark side OR light

- get companion customization for Light / Dark side versions

- for Vaylin it could be LIGHT = blue eyes , blonde hair ( like in the trailer ) ; DARK could be her crazy yellow eyes + dark hair

Bonus chapter would be great, and they have done one already with HK 55, this one gives a lot more variety depending on whether you kept Senya/Arcann and whether you want to have light/dark Vaylin. I’d also say that I want the romance but it can’t be done properly with the 2 minute cutscene format, at least the one with a healed LS Vaylin.

Could do without Tenebrae getting to live, he should stay dead. I really liked him as an antagonist/villain, but we killed him thrice and then destroyed his spirit after which he is told to be 100% dead. If he comes back, I doubt there will be anything that will make his next death believable.

Heh, surprised this is still around.

If anyone is interested there's a BF2 mod that re-skins Rey to Vaylin.

Bonus chapter would be great, and they have done one already with HK 55, this one gives a lot more variety depending on whether you kept Senya/Arcann and whether you want to have light/dark Vaylin. I’d also say that I want the romance but it can’t be done properly with the 2 minute cutscene format, at least the one with a healed LS Vaylin.

 

Could do without Tenebrae getting to live, he should stay dead. I really liked him as an antagonist/villain, but we killed him thrice and then destroyed his spirit after which he is told to be 100% dead. If he comes back, I doubt there will be anything that will make his next death believable.

I do like the idea of a bonus chapter for a healing thing. Arcann and Senya can be involved, as ghosts if necessary, one more time, then move on after they help save her if dead. I'd prefer them to live if we allowed them to, but BW has the whole "you can't save everyone" thing, so they might not go for that. But, since I feel the story was poorly thought out and/or rushed, I'd just as soon save them all. Two to five minutes of game time, hopefully that's not too hard for the devs.

And, yeah, if Vitiate gets to come back at any time, I'm not going to be happy, unless he brings her back with him some how. It just reinforces a trend that I don't care for at this point. There was a time I wouldn't have minded, he's that kind of villain, but after KotET, for personal reasons along with "yeah you really killed him this time", I would not be thrilled.

I do like the idea of a bonus chapter for a healing thing. Arcann and Senya can be involved, as ghosts if necessary, one more time, then move on after they help save her if dead. I'd prefer them to live if we allowed them to, but BW has the whole "you can't save everyone" thing, so they might not go for that. But, since I feel the story was poorly thought out and/or rushed, I'd just as soon save them all. Two to five minutes of game time, hopefully that's not too hard for the devs.

 

And, yeah, if Vitiate gets to come back at any time, I'm not going to be happy, unless he brings her back with him some how. It just reinforces a trend that I don't care for at this point. There was a time I wouldn't have minded, he's that kind of villain, but after KotET, for personal reasons along with "yeah you really killed him this time", I would not be thrilled.

Rise of Skywalker Spoilers

Do you think they'll bring him back again? I suspect we'll end up in another scenario where we have to choose between Kira and Scourge or Malgus and Satele.

Rise of Skywalker Spoilers

 

Well ... so ... after The Rise of Skywalker. We got four resurrection plot devices and two resurrections.

 

* Cloning? Did you see the Snokes in a jar?!

* Glados? Some weird thing that I thought was Glados pumping something into Palpy's back keeping his body ... semi-fresh.

* Draining? Not sure what happened here but Palpatine grew back his fingers by sucking out the life force of Rey and Solo.

* Healing? Solo dies from resurrecting Rey presumably by sending his 'life force' into Rey.

 

This 'Bring back whoever' argument has got weird! That said ... Senya?! Go sacrifice yourself! Fulfil your mission!

 

I have a couple of issues: One is simply that I don't know that anything from the sequel series will go over well in the game. The second is that these methods are too open-ended, I would like one (or probably a couple, really, but mostly this one) character brought back, but it should be by a method that is unique and not repeatable. I'd rather not have a revolving door of death to get her back, just a clearly one time thing. I wouldn't even want that if I didn't find her story so utterly contemptible.

But, because I find it contemptible, I would accept any of these methods if that's what we get. Or a ghost, since Yoda can blast things I think she could.

Do you think they'll bring him back again? I suspect we'll end up in another scenario where we have to choose between Kira and Scourge or Malgus and Satele.

Yeah, I absolutely think that he'll be back if the game lasts long enough for it*. I expect to see their Revan at some point, also. Because nostalgia is a powerful force, especially at the point when they start bleeding customers, which is going to happen, eventually. I'd LIKE to see it at least give me something I want when it happens, I don't expect it to.

Hope I'm wrong, that it either doesn't happen or, better, that it does but has a good payoff (he brings her with him), but I don't see any reason to be optimistic.

*I'm not expecting them to close their doors any time soon, just saying that it will happen eventually.

In red

I have a couple of issues: One is simply that I don't know that anything from the sequel series will go over well in the game. The second is that these methods are too open-ended, I would like one (or probably a couple, really, but mostly this one) character brought back, but it should be by a method that is unique and not repeatable. I'd rather not have a revolving door of death to get her back, just a clearly one time thing. I wouldn't even want that if I didn't find her story so utterly contemptible.

 

Well if it required the bond between say mother - daughter then it would be a one time thing but yeah I get you.

 

But, because I find it contemptible, I would accept any of these methods if that's what we get. Or a ghost, since Yoda can blast things I think she could.

 

A ghost companion would be cool. Heh maybe Vaylin can do a Revan and split? Then we'll have Ghost Vaylin and Real Vaylin?

 

 

Yeah, I absolutely think that he'll be back if the game lasts long enough for it*. I expect to see their Revan at some point, also. Because nostalgia is a powerful force, especially at the point when they start bleeding customers, which is going to happen, eventually. I'd LIKE to see it at least give me something I want when it happens, I don't expect it to.

Me too although I don't think Revan would have the same effect as he did during Shadow of Revan.

 

Hope I'm wrong, that it either doesn't happen or, better, that it does but has a good payoff (he brings her with him), but I don't see any reason to be optimistic.

 

We'll have to wait and see. I think it comes out in February?

 

*I'm not expecting them to close their doors any time soon, just saying that it will happen eventually.

 

Never give up on home, Brother Phil!

The love thread has returneth!

Hey Esh Long time no see ... I thought I would pop the weekly sub ... thing and see how it's all going.