Premade ' date=' you are not freaking better skill, the only thing you have is eliminate the newplayer in you group.[/quote']

 

LOL. okay so according to you why do the premades still win when they bring recruit gear alts who just hit 50? or when they go full recruit gear for the whole 4 just for giggles? Yeah, they're better. There are very few great pug players (less than your thinking... Still less... less again... now ur about right), and they will admit that the vast majority of great players are in premades.

Most people, casuals included, want to win but in my experience of running a couple large pvp guilds in past games is that the more casual players don't have to win that often to have fun. They just don't want to get stomped without much chance of doing anything. Sure they want to win as much as possible but many don't NEED to win that often.

What just really turns these people off is having match after match against premades of way higher gear. Especially the kinds that then go and spawncamp/3cap/etc.

They're probably laughing cause no matter what convoluted explanations you make, you're just another premader scared of facing other premades.

 

All you got is excuses.

 

That's all any of you got.

 

U scared bro?

 

watlol

i would LOVE to be able to reliably queue up and face other premades in Ranked. i could care less if i lose (my record is <.500 in fact overall). but do you know the number one reason why i would prefer to be playing Ranked all the time? it would be that i wouldnt have to put up with the flaming bads that are in the non-ranked bracket.

do you think those us of that want to play at a competitive level enjoy having meatheads on our own teams? or that we enjoy beating people who can barely handle not backpedaling or keyboard turning?

unfortunately, Ranked has an 8 man requirement and has an ever shrinking population. so participating in Ranked Warzones is usually a time consuming process.

Premades are not ideal but not the complete problem. The problem is that BW encouraged the whole premade idea since launch, went out of their way to benefit them, and ultimately made the highest tiered competition around the "premade policy". This created a massive amount of competitive issues. Additionally it further rewarded groups who could create ways to assemble 16ppl regardless of skill to have them face each other for max comms and rank in a fixed ranked WZ just so they could cheat the system to get rewards undue. So while there is the idea of that trinity of cross server, matchmaking balance, and premade balancing that is not what is needed to resolve this issue:

Ranked WZ needs to be changed from group only to pug only.

Is it risky? Yes. Will people be angry about it? Yes. But they will however be able to queue Ranked again and get into a match. There should additionally be a gear limitation to it so that the system prevents Recruit's from joining because that simply ruins the match. A valor limit would be ideal for this and is the actual purpose for valor...not for limiting shell use for cosmetics due to not enough WZ playing.

At least this way there is a valid tiered competitive arena that you can actually judge skill and cooperative play instead of maxing out teams with op fotm classes that roflstomp everything in their path.

Myself, I have 5 WH/EWH optimized 50's that I have rarely premade with even though I have been in some of the biggest pvp guilds on my servers. I prefer playing PUG v Any as it's a better test for how well I work with others. But with the new f2p 50's and Recruit Mark-2 gear I have noticed that this is completely a fail attempt. Either I will be matched with a premade so it will be 5-6 of us top tier geared VS anyone and it's normally an autowin, or I will be solo on an already defeated PUG team where I max objectives and coms/dps/heals and do over 2x what the next closest PUG did on my team. This by itself makes me get in and get out just for daily coms which is not the ideal atmosphere for WZs or constructive pvp.

This is turning out to be one of those typical issues the gamecompany cant solve fast enough. They claim to be listening to the playercommunity, but so far there has been ZERO comments from the devs about how thyer going to fix the premade issue. It is very obvious that the player community is NOT HAPPY with the current situation.

Just look at the massive amount of posts on this thread!

Probably Bioware wont react before its too late and ppl start cancelling and never return due to lost intrest in an unbalanced game. Ive seen it happen to other MMOS when they didnt fix issues of BIG concern before. In SWG we had a jedi problem that they ddint want to solve and now SWG is gone...this will turn out to be same magnitude of problem and will cause MAJOR problems to SWTOR if not fixed asap.

The fix is simple - just remove premades from regular queues.

This is turning out to be one of those typical issues the gamecompany cant solve fast enough. They claim to be listening to the playercommunity, but so far there has been ZERO comments from the devs about how thyer going to fix the premade issue. It is very obvious that the player community is NOT HAPPY with the current situation.

 

Just look at the massive amount of posts on this thread!

 

Probably Bioware wont react before its too late and ppl start cancelling and never return due to lost intrest in an unbalanced game. Ive seen it happen to other MMOS when they didnt fix issues of BIG concern before. In SWG we had a jedi problem that they ddint want to solve and now SWG is gone...this will turn out to be same magnitude of problem and will cause MAJOR problems to SWTOR if not fixed asap.

 

The fix is simple - just remove premades from regular queues.

I've had a long post on page 185 or 186 trying to give a detailed explanation why it's very difficult for them to do anything about these uneven matches. I won't repeat myself, look it up if you want but the core of the issue is that they can't improve the situation wihout making cross-server queues and lowering the entry barrier to ranked. If they did both as well as increased the incentive to play ranked, then most premades would go there on their own and we'd only have a handful of guilds left in non-ranked that really want nothing but feel godly by stomping pugs.

Unfortunately there are ways around disallowing 4 people to queue together for non-ranked or queue separation (like sync queuing or teams of 3 queuing together), so queue separation without cross-server queues would just serve to piss people off. Premade queues would simply go dead and we'd have massive imbalance in the solo queue.

Unfortunately for us Bioware seems to be against cross-server queues. Whether it is because they lack the resources, tech or know-how to modify Hero Engine for XServer queues can be debated but one thing remains certain, cross-server queues (for now at least) are in the back barn. And splitting the population without increasing it in another way would be catastrophic at this point.

Is it annoying? Yes. Is it stupid that they don't have XServer queues? Yes. Should it have been in the game from day 1? Yes. Will we be forever in pre-season without XServer queues? Presumably, yes. Would less people have left had we had Xserver queues? Also, presumably, yes.

Unfortunately, Bioware seems to go completely against what common sense dictates and they seem to stubbornly deviate from the path that has made other MMOs (reasonably) successful. But personally I think it's because of their greedy EA overlords that they can't implement anything that doesn't result in an immediate monetary gain. Cross-server queues should increase the population in the long run and bring some old players back but EA doesn't give money for something that might or might not return profits someday, a perfect example of shortsighted greediness.

All that negative said, however, the devs did say that they hoped to implement a better matchmaking system one day (not even the usual SOONtm) and it's clear that there's a major PvP balance patch coming shortly. Let's see what that is and who knows, maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised. (Or it might be just another round of nerfing operatives and mercs knowing their past.)

EDIT: I think the devs don't respond because they don't have anything to say. They know that they need cross-server queues to address this issue. They can't give us cross-server queues, so they can't address the issue. So they don't want to admit that they are incapable of addressing the issue. (I bet, though, that they're reading this thread.)

So all you hard core pro pvper are only care about winning, but not the challenging ? So you making a group to stomp on new player ?

First of all, I never claimed to be "pro". But I choose to play competitively, which means I am trying to win every match I'm in. I don't choose to ignore features of the game that are put there to help you win. I suggest you play the way that makes the game most enjoyable for you, but if winning is enjoyable than I suggest you re-evaluate the way you are playing.

Really ? tell me would you take a recruit gear ? If you don't dare to take a recruit gear in your premade then your argument is just hollow words. You would never take a recruit gear when PUG will have to take a recruit gear. Your team will have less chance to get a recruit gears compare to PUG. So if everone is making a premade and no one taking a recruit gear, We have team of recruit being match up against pro WH +aug premade. Well done idiot you just put and end to all new player in this game.

Yes, when I group it's with whatever friends I have online. FYI, I typically PUG these days since most of my evening is spent in raids lately. The difference is that I do not go into the match expecting to have a team equal to what I would have if I made a premade. Don't get me wrong, I perform the best I can and work to win in any way we can, but if we lose I don't blame the other side because they were better as you seem to do. I don't quit games where my team doesn't have a lot of gear. If I wanted to win every match I played, then you're darn right I'd leave the recruits on the sidelines to fend for themselves and quit matches with a lot of them on my side. (this is where matchmaking comes into play)

I just recently had a toon hit 50 and played in mostly recruit gear. I had commendations to spend when I hit 50 since I planned ahead, but no legacy gear passing for this one. I had no problems competing in a WH/recruit mix. It takes maybe 20 hours to get full WH now if you lose every match, so gear is not even a relevant issue at this point.

May be all of premade like you, having trouble understanding. PUGs have to accept newplayer and train them, that is what none rank casual wz for. Premade dont accept newplayer - recruit gear, hp below 16k -, chose specific classes to join, you are not freaking better skill, the only thing you have is eliminate the newplayer in you group. And i said again, if people all make premade in casual WZ, the only left will be recruit gear with no where to compete against Full WH premade group. So try to think before you ask s.o to make premade group, it's stupid idea.

a) I don't run premades often anymore

b) You have no idea how "skilled" I am (if anything in this game can really be considered skill)

c) I answer questions for new folks, run with PVE players in recruit/BM, and play with any class that wants to go in regular warzones

d) I never said this system is working perfectly, just that premades are not the culprit (insert matchmaking)

Just realize that if you choose not to take advantage of features built into the game, your chances of losing will increase. If you feel this feature should be removed than make an argument for why, but ensure that argument will actually fully resolve your issue. Right now you are saying that premades make matches unfair for new players, when in reality those players are doomed from the start when having to face better competition. If they had a solo queue, would new players not get destroyed by better players anyway? Removing premades only takes the advantage away from the individual (can no longer ensure you aren't on the bad team), it doesn't remove the problem of one team being better than another or make matches any closer.

No one cares who they play as long as the game is equal, whether they face a complete PUG or 8 people from the same guild. As there are good and bad premades and good and bad PUGs, mixing them is fine we just need a better system for doing so.

I would really still like to see someone counter the argument of "If the vast majority of players are casuals who don't have friends (or don't have any online, or time to make them) how is it you keep running into premades every match?"

Or the people that keep "threatening" premades by saying "soon casuals aren't even going to queue up, enjoy your 2+ hour wait times". Um...you get that if you won't let us queue up with casuals anyway, then it doesn't really make a difference to us if casuals are queueing up right?

It's is specifically to avoid the 2+ hour wait times, that has most premades arguing against separate queues to begin with.

But most importantly, STOP with all this overly emotional and frankly inaccurate complaining that says every premade is part of premade because they delight in hurting people's feelings, or "rubbing your face" in your losses. Yes we want a challenge, yes we play ranked. But sometimes we just want to get our daily done on 3 different toons. We log in, say "who's gotta spot?", queue up, win 2x, log out, then repeat the process with 2-3 of our alts. Never at any point are we cackling like a comic book super-villian about destroying some recruit geared PuG's PvP dreams. Just stop. It's silly.

I was in an ACW today and we had the west node and were fighting over the south. Those individuals at the west decided that they were going to be Rambos, there were two of them, and attack east and leave no one guarding west.

They died in the attempt and lost the west node in the process before help could get up there. They neglected some of the most basic rules in PvP and they should have known better.

We eventually won, but the idiocy of these two is an example of why people get into premades.

People can only deal with idiots for so long and queuing up with your friends who you know are going to do what needs to be done, regardless of boredom or lack of kills, to insure that your team wins the match.

agreed. it's unfair to team up against pugs. you can't penalize the solo player and reward guilds for rather unsporting behavior. arena is there for them, but they'd rather give pugs grief. they're exploiting the system for easy wins and rewards. what more needs to be said?

The flaw in your argument is the presumption that losing to a team of better players is an externally imposed "penalty", rather than the inevitable outcome of engaging in a competitive endeavor against those with superior skill/tactics.

Furthermore, the idea that someone beating you is displaying bad sportsmanship, while anyone losing to you is displaying good sportsmanship, is also an inaccurate (and frankly self-serving) premise.

Exploit: Transitive Verb. 1: to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage.

Good players don't group with other good players to be mean. They group with other good players because it makes more sense than grouping with bad players.

Fairly? Last time I checked grouping with other players was an option available to EVERYBODY. If there are limitations in your PERSONAL life that preclude your ability to group with other players, the presumably it is your PERSONAL responsiblity to overcome those limitations.

Same goes for being good. If you aren't good, it's not the responsibility of Bioware of the rest of the player base to avoid you.

The flaw in your argument is the presumption that losing to a team of better players is an externally imposed "penalty", rather than the inevitable outcome of engaging in a competitive endeavor against those with superior skill/tactics.

 

Furthermore, the idea that someone beating you is displaying bad sportsmanship, while anyone losing to you is displaying good sportsmanship, is also an inaccurate (and frankly self-serving) premise.

 

Exploit: Transitive Verb. 1: to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage.

 

Good players don't group with other good players to be mean. They group with other good players because it makes more sense than grouping with bad players.

 

Fairly? Last time I checked grouping with other players was an option available to EVERYBODY. If there are limitations in your PERSONAL life that preclude your ability to group with other players, the presumably it is your PERSONAL responsiblity to overcome those limitations.

 

Same goes for being good. If you aren't good, it's not the responsibility of Bioware of the rest of the player base to avoid you.

I dont think he was meaning JUST losing is bad Sportsmanship. But when the "better" players are camping the spawn location. THAT is bad sportsmanship. And I am sorry. Not grouping up to queue does NOT make you a bad player. Whatever you may want to think. Why is it that all you pro premaders all seem to think that? Our point is, you should NOT be FORCED to premade to have fun. Win or Lose. I could not give a rats A** if I win or lose, as long as its a fun game. Getting Steam Rolled is NOT fun. Hence why myself and a lot of other people just stopped playing. As the trend seems to be following. So keep up you attitude. Keep thinking there is not anything wrong with the current system. And you will end up queuing for RWZs all the time, cause RWZ or Reg WZ will be the same queue time....

agreed. it's unfair to team up against pugs. you can't penalize the solo player and reward guilds for rather unsporting behavior. arena is there for them, but they'd rather give pugs grief. they're exploiting the system for easy wins and rewards. what more needs to be said?

i cant agree more, they gear up / get their alts geared up twice as fast as the puggie. they need a cross server pvp que and segregate all premades to the ranked ques.

Arguing semantics doesn't add weight to your opinion. This is the problem we, as people who are not in large and well geared pvp guilds, deal with:

1. Our RL friends quit. We are stuck on a server that does not have a large population of pvp guilds. The ones that exist are not open to bringing in "unkowns" for their premades or rateds.

2. From my experience, the "pro" pvpers are generally very rude, arrogant, hostile to strangers, and clique oriented. I do not enjoy socializing with these people. I have to tolerate it in real life for work and school, but I do not have to tolerate it in a game I play for enjoyment. To put it bluntly, I don't like you and I won't bootlick to get a spot in your premade.

3. This is not a profession, career, or real life necessity. It's a GAME made for FUN. Everytime you curbstomp a pug player, they get a little closer to cancelling their subscription. There is a reason the game is shrinking, and while pvp isn't the only problem, for those of us in pug hell it's the biggest problem. When the game is no longer fun, we will find something else that is. There is no shortage of entertainment out there.

Having said that, until they implement cross server queues, the population will not support a separate bracket for premades. I personally think they should allow solo players, or at least 4 man groups, into the rated category.

However, from experience I've seen that most "pros" won't even queue unless they have the optimum comp, optimum gear, and a guaranteed win. 4 man rated would most likely end up as dead as the 8 man rated is now because you would be stuck with whatever the other 4 man group is and not have the option to bail on a game without penalty.

 

However, from experience I've seen that most "pros" won't even queue unless they have the optimum comp, optimum gear, and a guaranteed win. 4 man rated would most likely end up as dead as the 8 man rated is now because you would be stuck with whatever the other 4 man group is and not have the option to bail on a game without penalty.

Exactly, premades don't want to fight other premades, they want easy kills against pugs.

Bottom line the majority of players are casual players, for PvE and PvE RP servers there should be a pug ONLY option. The match making system also needs to be tweak so that it balances out both sides, either both sides get a healer or nobody gets a healer..

The REASON the warzone pops take so long is the premades have ran off most of the casual pvp'ers and the few that have stay are slowly leaving themselves making the situation worse. Add a PUG only option and I Guarantee you warzones will be very busy.

Criminal there hasn't been a counter to that because it is so obvious. Hardcore players play a lot more than casuals (hence hardcore lol). Many casuals get on to complete their daily (and maybe a couple more if they are having fun). However many premades that you see will play for hours.

Also, 1 premade out of 16 players would cause the problem we are talking about. Furthermore it doesn't have to be every single match for there to be many complaints.

 

Bottom line the majority of players are casual players, for PvE and PvE RP servers there should be a pug ONLY option. The match making system also needs to be tweak so that it balances out both sides, either both sides get a healer or nobody gets a healer..

Do you ave any idea how long the queues might be if you have to wait for a tank or a healer?

Why should the healers on the opposing side not get to PvP if there are none on your side?

I solo queue and PUG 90% of my matches and I have gotten rolled by premades. It happens, but by the same token, I have been grouped with a premade and have done the rolling.

I have also been in PUGs where we destroyed premades. The secret to that success?

Communication and experience. People actually understood what the objectives of the WZ were and worked towards accomplishing them. They also, and I know that this must come as a shock to some, we used the OPs chat to call incomings and other information that is useful to insure a win. We worked to support one another and not just kill chase.

I've seen too many players leave a node to chase someone down and then have that node get ninja capped.

For everyone claiming that fighting premades suck, they're right, they do sometimes. Until of course, you're on the premades side and winning your matches.

I've had a long post on page 185 or 186 trying to give a detailed explanation why it's very difficult for them to do anything about these uneven matches. I won't repeat myself, look it up if you want but the core of the issue is that they can't improve the situation wihout making cross-server queues and lowering the entry barrier to ranked. If they did both as well as increased the incentive to play ranked, then most premades would go there on their own and we'd only have a handful of guilds left in non-ranked that really want nothing but feel godly by stomping pugs.

 

Unfortunately there are ways around disallowing 4 people to queue together for non-ranked or queue separation (like sync queuing or teams of 3 queuing together), so queue separation without cross-server queues would just serve to piss people off. Premade queues would simply go dead and we'd have massive imbalance in the solo queue.

 

Unfortunately for us Bioware seems to be against cross-server queues. Whether it is because they lack the resources, tech or know-how to modify Hero Engine for XServer queues can be debated but one thing remains certain, cross-server queues (for now at least) are in the back barn. And splitting the population without increasing it in another way would be catastrophic at this point.

 

Is it annoying? Yes. Is it stupid that they don't have XServer queues? Yes. Should it have been in the game from day 1? Yes. Will we be forever in pre-season without XServer queues? Presumably, yes. Would less people have left had we had Xserver queues? Also, presumably, yes.

 

Unfortunately, Bioware seems to go completely against what common sense dictates and they seem to stubbornly deviate from the path that has made other MMOs (reasonably) successful. But personally I think it's because of their greedy EA overlords that they can't implement anything that doesn't result in an immediate monetary gain. Cross-server queues should increase the population in the long run and bring some old players back but EA doesn't give money for something that might or might not return profits someday, a perfect example of shortsighted greediness.

 

All that negative said, however, the devs did say that they hoped to implement a better matchmaking system one day (not even the usual SOONtm) and it's clear that there's a major PvP balance patch coming shortly. Let's see what that is and who knows, maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised. (Or it might be just another round of nerfing operatives and mercs knowing their past.)

 

EDIT: I think the devs don't respond because they don't have anything to say. They know that they need cross-server queues to address this issue. They can't give us cross-server queues, so they can't address the issue. So they don't want to admit that they are incapable of addressing the issue. (I bet, though, that they're reading this thread.)

I believe that you are dead wrong on EA being the issue, Bioware has clung to this Mickey Mouse role player nonsense mentality of "building community" and X-server ques somehow hurting community. In every instance Bioware and its single player, baby game roots have hurt its MMO endeavor.

Do you ave any idea how long the queues might be if you have to wait for a tank or a healer?

 

Why should the healers on the opposing side not get to PvP if there are none on your side?

 

I solo queue and PUG 90% of my matches and I have gotten rolled by premades. It happens, but by the same token, I have been grouped with a premade and have done the rolling.

 

I have also been in PUGs where we destroyed premades. The secret to that success?

 

Communication and experience. People actually understood what the objectives of the WZ were and worked towards accomplishing them. They also, and I know that this must come as a shock to some, we used the OPs chat to call incomings and other information that is useful to insure a win. We worked to support one another and not just kill chase.

 

I've seen too many players leave a node to chase someone down and then have that node get ninja capped.

 

For everyone claiming that fighting premades suck, they're right, they do sometimes. Until of course, you're on the premades side and winning your matches.

So basicaly your fighting to keep things as is so the Premades have there fodder (Pug Players), because you know if there was a PUG only option the majority of people would choose that option... It's time Bioware concedes to the majority instead of the minorty, Premades have there option, it's called ranked PvP. Not my fault none of you guys want to use it.

Either Bioware gives casual players there option of PUG only or PvP Warzones are just going to get smaller and smaller and smaller.....

The whole argument to learn your class or force people to use ventrilo, mumble, etc.. to have a fighting chance is moot. The issue isint learning your class, the issue is PvP only guilds on PvE and PvE RP Servers who play 5-6 hours a day doing nothing but premades, they quikly get there eilte war hero armor and then cherry pick mods from various pieces to get the best stats. This is were the huge gap comes into play, you end up with 4+ extreamly well geared players who are on ventrilo, mumble or team speak who just face roll all the casual players...

I've yet to hear a solution other then "To Bad You Suck" or "Live with it because I play in a premade and want to keep getting easy wins"

Bioware made several mistakes with Warzones:

1) they didn't add a PUG only option

2) they didn't put fixed stats on PvP gear to keep it more balanced, so the players who do nothing but pvp get to pick and choose the best mods from all the gear to make the ultimate pvp set which makes the gear gap even bigger

3) no incentive for the "" Elite "" PvP'ers to go do ranked pvp

As for healers not getting to play in pvp? Come on, there's plenty of Healers that PvP, the problem is they usually all get put on one side, a lot of pvp warzones I've seen has had 2-3 healers on one side and 0 on the other. I rather wait another 20-30 mins for a warzone if it's going to be a fair fight then have quick pops where one side just rolls the other side in record time.

You know i'm all for change from my other posts but without cross server a solo only option will be gamed unless bw does it properly (they won't). I've gamed this before in past games and its nasty lol.

They need better premade matching with a top of 5-10min wait for another premade in q. This way if there really is only 1 premade q'n then they can still play with friends however if there are multiple (there almost always are at least a few on the populated servers) then they will play eachother.

So basicaly your fighting to keep things as is so the Premades have there fodder (Pug Players), because you know if there was a PUG only option the majority of people would choose that option... It's time Bioware concedes to the majority instead of the minorty, Premades have there option, it's called ranked PvP. Not my fault none of you guys want to use it.

You're assuming that I, or those that I group with, have time to do ranked. Usually there's only 2 or 3 of us that want to PvP at the same time with only a couple of hours to do so. It's why I mainly solo queue. Because, most of the time, my hours aren't the same as theirs.

Either Bioware gives casual players there option of PUG only or PvP Warzones are just going to get smaller and smaller and smaller.....

You will still have inexperienced recruit geared players going up against experienced WH and EWH geared ones. Stompings will still happen.

The whole argument to learn your class or force people to use ventrilo, mumble, etc.. to have a fighting chance is moot. The issue isint learning your class, the issue is PvP only guilds on PvE and PvE RP Servers who play 5-6 hours a day doing nothing but premades, they quikly get there eilte war hero armor and then cherry pick mods from various pieces to get the best stats. This is were the huge gap comes into play, you end up with 4+ extreamly well geared players who are on ventrilo, mumble or team speak who just face roll all the casual players...

I never said anything about using went, mumble, or any other voice chat. I did say that I have been in PUGs where we rolled the premade because we were using OPs chat though. In other words, typing. Also, I never said anything about learning your class, but I did mention understanding the WZs and what needed to be done to win.

As for the WH sets and modding them, if a person starts saving commendations after they hit 40, they will be able to purchase several pieces of WH gear to compliment their recruit gear. Now, even if they only do the PvP daily, and even if they lose every single match, they could still get 3-4 pieces of new WH gear a week.

If a person waits until their 50 to start PvPing and goes in with just recruit gear, well, they are going to get torn up even if there isn't a premade in the WZ.

I've yet to hear a solution other then "To Bad You Suck" or "Live with it because I play in a premade and want to keep getting easy wins"

 

Bioware made several mistakes with Warzones:

1) they didn't add a PUG only option

2) they didn't put fixed stats on PvP gear to keep it more balanced, so the players who do nothing but pvp get to pick and choose the best mods from all the gear to make the ultimate pvp set which makes the gear gap even bigger

3) no incentive for the "" Elite "" PvP'ers to go do ranked pvp.

Most of the solutions that have been suggested have been poorly thought out as an alternative. Best one that I've read about is having system based on your valor level. But even that has major flaws.

1: That's only your opinion and there are no hard facts that it was actually a mistake. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean its broken.

2: Should BW limit the number of PvP matches that a person can play per week as well? I mean, if we want to keep things fair it's the only way to make certain that no one ever actually out gears anyone else. Crappy pvp model though and I doubt anyone would play.

3: I'll agree with you on that one though.

As for healers not getting to play in pvp? Come on, there's plenty of Healers that PvP, the problem is they usually all get put on one side, a lot of pvp warzones I've seen has had 2-3 healers on one side and 0 on the other. I rather wait another 20-30 mins for a warzone if it's going to be a fair fight then have quick pops where one side just rolls the other side in record time.

Yes, there are quite a few that PvP, but I was responding to the idea that was put forward of "we all get healers or no one does". In a Republic vs Empire match, what is going to happen if one side does have healers and the other doesn't? Have them sit and wait 30 minutes? Cross queue and have Imp healers on a Pub team?

Even if it was a same faction match, how are casual pvpers going to react when they have to wait 20-30 minutes to get into one because another healer didn't queue up? That will drive off players faster than dealing with an occasional premade for 10 minutes ever would. At least with the premade they would still get commendations.

Even if it was a same faction match, how are casual pvpers going to react when they have to wait 20-30 minutes to get into one because another healer didn't queue up? That will drive off players faster than dealing with an occasional premade for 10 minutes ever would. At least with the premade they would still get commendations.

I beg to differ... There have been many times I have gone up against a premade, Done "everything right" (I.E. fought on node, targeted healer, And used Ops chat) and not gotten a single Comm. But maybe this IS my fault... I call Incs, place markers on healers, try to coordinate in ops chat, know my class, etc... Maybe Im doing it wrong?

The whole point most of us solo queuers are trying to make is that it shouldn't be MANDATORY to form a premade just to have a little fun. If you cant at least concede that point, then you just need to stop posting, cause you are completely one sided and wont get anywhere here.

This is a mulitplayer game! They should encourage players to team up! If you want to play singleplayer you are most welcome but dont expect it to be better than teaming up with some friends or online player-friends.

Cmon guys.. This is common sense!