I like the Cartel Market, in general, but there is a distinct difference to me between vanity items and convience unlocks and putting honest to goodness quests and story on the CM. That's an awful precedent and one that I'm really really not happy about. To be quite frank, it's bullsh*t.

Couldn't have said it better, without useing foul language myself. It seems that EA/Bioware are are ripping every1 off includeing the F2p along with us Subs. Most stuff that has been comming out of the Cartel as of late should be obtainable by Subs. The Huttball armors should Never, Ever have been crapped in the Cartel packs, and has no reason to be in them, when it should be a PvP obtainable , and instead have been ripping off a lot of Players (Subs) that should get the armor sets without useing about $100.00 on X24 Packs. You can sell these items, when they should be free to Subs and even f2p ppl that would be willing to to dish out money enough for grinding for those Huttball armor sets. These kind of ppl Do in My Opinion, and not just mine, that these Huttball armor sets have no business being in the X24 Packs, but should be only in the PvP line of armor, as we Pvp'ers have no real variety of different armor sets at all.

It is this Big example along with a lot of other things/ items that should've been obtainable in-game, but instead Corporate greed has now pretty much haveing everything that's Cool stuff that ppl should be able to get in game in FPs, Ops and Warzones instead. But money seems to be the only thing EA/Bioware cares about now.

Planetary quests in many cases do carry threaded storyline in them. Some do not I agree... and those in fact are simply delivering a message in context to a mission that is material to a player as it provides progression to the next in the chain of planetary quests.. all of which help provide a notable amount of character progression (leveling) in preparation to the next planet in the leveling of a character.

 

By contrast...and please... rather then jerk you knees up into your sinus, please try to follow along... datacubes are a clever gimmick item that uses the same mechanics and procedures of any mission in the game (ie: they are using predesigned methods and putting a cute and novel wrapper on them). The difference is that they have no real value in the context of playing the actual game (unless you live and die for every little fragment of lore and collect it, which some do). They do not unlock a chain of missions that provide material value in progressing a character in the game. I observe them for what they are: trivial sound bytes to bait some forum members into righteous indignation.

 

Now... do I think this particular gimmick is a rip off? Absolutely! It's trivial and pointless IMO. On a scale of cheeze-worthiness..it's right there with the Jawagrams IMO. A rare cartel pack slot wasted. So if you are on that position, I am in 100% violent agreement. But on the issue that this gimmick corrupts the very nature of story in this game...nope...I know the difference between a cheezy gimmick and substance. But this is off-topic and deserves it's own thread and carries real merit IMO.

Except these datacores are not over and done with and will continue in the next instalment of CM packs, so, technically, they are kind of a quest chain. Who knows what secrets The Shroud will reveal? Are they important? Find out ... for CC.

"Ad hominem" is one of those words you constantly hear on the internet, especially when people find no better counter-argument than reveal the obvious - you're attacking the person, not the argument. In the realm of philosophy it's one of the illogical fallacies, on the internet it's simply a buzzword like "self-entitlement", one of those magic words trying to solve all the problems of the world. It's one of those concepts that degenerated into a life of its own on the internet.

Except these datacores are not over and done with and will continue in the next instalment of CM packs, so, technically, they are kind of a quest chain. Who knows what secrets The Shroud will reveal? Are they important? Find out ... for CC.

 

"Ad hominem" is one of those words you constantly hear on the internet, especially when people find no better counter-argument than reveal the obvious - you're attacking the person, not the argument. In the realm of philosophy it's one of the illogical fallacies, on the internet it's simply a buzzword like "self-entitlement", one of those magic words trying to solve all the problems of the world. It's one of those concepts that degenerated into a life of its own on the internet.

everyone knows andryah does that, he/she keeps with this agressive way, using subtle words, but he/she the entire time kept calling us Chicken little, when he/she was the one replying to every one posting going from the other thread to this one to keep this up, now whos overreacting?

Except these datacores are not over and done with and will continue in the next instalment of CM packs, so, technically, they are kind of a quest chain.

A disintegral fragment that is a gimmick in the CM can continue forever as far as I am concerned. Isn't that the entire premise of the CM after all? To give players non functional content to immerse themselves as they desire? Though I think now that people cannot exploit them, they will tire of them and they will eventually retire the concept.

Who knows what secrets The Shroud will reveal? Are they important? Find out ... for CC.

This is doomsayer nonsense, and I think even you know it. You are just trying to be provocative with it IMO.

Fuff: things that do not matter or provide pathway to progress your character. One persons fluff is another persons mana of course so "fluff" stand alone is a circular discussion. Fluff in context however has meaning, particularly in this discussion.

 

Many things in this game are fluff. Planetary side quests ARE NOT fluff. They may have fluffy elements.. but they provide valuable and needed pathways to level characters. They are components in a chain of missions in fact.

 

Datacubes..they are the antithesis of planetary and storyline missions as they offer nothing to progress your character, unlock new mission chains, etc. etc. They are fluff for the Fluff Market.

I can think of several planetary and daily quests which offer nothing to progress your character, they are simply there to offer either the background of the planet or the background of the universe the character is put in. Regardless of your class, they start and end on the same note. Datacores fall into this category of "background information". Furthermore, as was stated, we did not get all of the datacores for now, this "fluffy" story will continue, and for mere fluff it sure is quite grandiose. For some this is fluff, for others it is not, but do not presume it is fluff on an objective level.

I can think of several planetary and daily quests which offer nothing to progress your character, they are simply there to offer either the background of the planet or the background of the universe the character is put in.

They offer an XP reward (simply for showing up) AND more importantly.... they trigger the next sequence of missions for you on the planet.. all of which provide a variety of progressions (lore unlocks, xp, items to equip, credits, etc, etc). So they ARE integral to the planetary mission chains, which ARE integral to character progression. [these datacubes we are discussing do not]

Now..if you are saying they are "lore-trivial"...on that we agree. But they ARE material to continuing mission based character progression.....that cannot be denied with any objectivity.

They offer an XP reward (simply for showing up) AND more importantly.... they trigger the next sequence of missions for you on the planet.. all of which provide a variety of progressions (lore unlocks, xp, items to equip, credits, etc, etc). So they ARE integral to the planetary mission chains, which ARE integral to character progression. [these datacubes we are discussing do not]

 

Now..if you are saying they are "lore-trivial"...on that we agree. But they ARE material to continuing mission based character progression.....that cannot be denied with any objectivity.

no wrong, Side quests on planets are triggered based on your Level, the only one that is like is the actual Chain of quest that tell the main story of said planet and even so, you can do many bonus series that continue said story before finishing it, do you even play the game lol?

They offer an XP reward (simply for showing up) AND more importantly.... they trigger the next sequence of missions for you on the planet.. all of which provide a variety of progressions (lore unlocks, xp, items to equip, credits, etc, etc). So they ARE integral to the planetary mission chains, which ARE integral to character progression. [these datacubes we are discussing do not]

 

Now..if you are saying they are "lore-trivial"...on that we agree. But they ARE material to continuing mission based character progression.....that cannot be denied with any objectivity.

There are many one off quests. Republic Roulette on Ord mantel, Meltdown on Coruscant., The Thousand Steps on Tython are 3 just from the top of my head.

They offer an XP reward (simply for showing up) AND more importantly.... they trigger the next sequence of missions for you on the planet.. all of which provide a variety of progressions (lore unlocks, xp, items to equip, credits, etc, etc). So they ARE integral to the planetary mission chains, which ARE integral to character progression. [these datacubes we are discussing do not]

 

Now..if you are saying they are "lore-trivial"...on that we agree. But they ARE material to continuing mission based character progression.....that cannot be denied with any objectivity.

your new argument to fix your broken parameters is "Mission based character Progression"? let me break it for you, everyone considers companions an integral part of the story, and so are their quests, but most of the time we are a lot of levels ahead before we do all the talking with them therefore missing the xp, because its not easy to get affection while simple doing quests, so here it goes, Companions quest are on the same level of content of the Shroud datalog, yet they fall withing your parameters, so should the companions quest be also sold on the CM now?

There are many one off quests. Republic Roulette on Ord mantel, Meltdown on Coruscant., The Thousand Steps on Tython are 3 just from the top of my head.

There are. But that is not the norm, it's the exception in the hundred of hours of mission play in the game.

I accept that in some peoples minds.. they consider them worthless and don't do them, which is fine. But it does not change the context of my comments about missions.

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Thank you.

I suggest we move away from the word "fluff", as it is difficult to arrive at common definition and we just throw back and forth what we think it means.

I suggest we start using the word "vanity". Now, vanity can be described easily - something that makes you look cool.

I think no one has problems with vanity items on CM (outside of absolute CM-hating crowd).

However, we will not be able to call Datacubes "vanity", because they reveal (and will reveal) somewhat important information, just like many conversations with companions (for example) do.

Therefore, they should not be on CM, as they are (for some) important story content, and not vanity

I was personally okay with the datacube when the purpose was two fold that you A) Get a little bit of minor story background that fills in the blanks and B) Get a little bit of something useful to you, which was the credit boom.

Once the credit boom was removed I have more of a problem with it now because it just becomes pay for story content and that's it. As a level 55 player who does not PvP XP and Warzone boosts are of no use to me. If there were some other item that replaces the credit boom, even a vanity item, I would be more okay with it.

I do get what people are saying about the slippery slope principle however I also think (hope) that there will never be more significant story content on the cartel market beyond this sort of minor fill in the blank exposition.

Still, for me to really be okay with it I think I need some other benefit from those cubes beyond just story. An item, credits, a title, just something. I don't like the idea of paying for just story content and nothing else.

This is of course just my personal opinion and as always people are free to disagree. I'm not saying that Bioware or anyone else has to do what I say but rather just stating how I as an individual feel about this particular item, particularly in light of the removal of the credit boom.

Thank you.

I suggest we move away from the word "fluff", as it is difficult to arrive at common definition and we just throw back and forth what we think it means.

I suggest we start using the word "vanity". Now, vanity can be described easily - something that makes you look cool.

I think no one has problems with vanity items on CM (outside of absolute CM-hating crowd).

However, we will not be able to call Datacubes "vanity", because they reveal (and will reveal) somewhat important information, just like many conversations with companions (for example) do.

Therefore, they should not be on CM, as they are (for some) important story content, and not vanity

I agree completely. Also "vanity" is more likely to be used by BW than "fluff".

Yellow answer! At last.. wait

Have you tried sending DamionSchubert a pm on the forums?

I have not. Thank you for the suggestion.

There are. But that is not the norm, it's the exception in the hundred of hours of mission play in the game.

 

I accept that in some peoples minds.. they consider them worthless and don't do them, which is fine. But it does not change the context of my comments about missions.

I wouldn't really call It the exception. For every faction quest in a quest line, there are at least 2 missions completely unrelated but in the same area. I would say the game is 50% questline and 50% stand alone quests.

I can see the concern, but I'm not sure it's a concern I share.

I personally feel CM content is money in, money out. It just seems to me that CM content is better than the content we were getting before the F2P/Market model launched.

I mean, just look at all of the UNIQUE armor designs we have gotten in the past few months. It's incredible.

That doesn't dismiss the concern that folks may have about putting "story" content on the market...I guess I'm just in the "better CM than nothing" club.

For now. If it continues for too long though I may become concerned myself.

I can see the concern, but I'm not sure it's a concern I share.

 

I personally feel CM content is money in, money out. It just seems to me that CM content is better than the content we were getting before the F2P/Market model launched.

 

I mean, just look at all of the UNIQUE armor designs we have gotten in the past few months. It's incredible.

 

That doesn't dismiss the concern that folks may have about putting "story" content on the market...I guess I'm just in the "better CM than nothing" club.

 

For now. If it continues for too long though I may become concerned myself.

so, youre telling me youre completly fine if they sell..lets say new companions quest using those packs?

We need to boycott the cartel market.

That's a bit excessive. For the most part, I do enjoy the CM. I just think this particular situation isn't a good decision.