So who do you think would win in a fight between a jedi and a space marine from the warhammer 40k universe?

 

Personally i beleive that the only way a jedi would be able to defeat a space marine is with the force as a lightsaber would be mitigated by a marines energy sheild and if the jedi was fighting a grey knight i think that nemesis force weapons would be able to parry the lightsaber. Also the jedi robes are no match for things like bolters,lascannons,plasma cannons,chain swords etc... And even then the vastly superior physical capabilities of the space marine would likely be able to keep up with the jedis force attacks unless they were incredibly powerfeul. In the end i then beleive that a jedi would lose to a space marine most of the time.

 

But if you have any other reasons why these two iconic warriors of their franchises would beat each other then please share.

I tend to think that a Jedi is equivilant to a Space Marine Librarian, just without armor. The Jedi can use multiple powers, like the Librarian, even before the battle brother is aware of him. I think the Jedi holds all the cards in this fight with the exception of the raw strength of the Space Marine. The lightsaber makes a mockery of power armor and the Jedi can just block the bolt shells. The lascannon makes no difference because the lightsaber can also block starfighter-type laser weapons. The powers that the Jedi wields more than makes up for whatever advanced systems the Space Marine has in his armor. I don't see this as much of a contest, unless the Space Marine already has the Jedi in his grip and is squeezing.

As Vader once said

 

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."

 

So...ya thinking jedi would win, the force can pretty much do anything.

As Vader once said

 

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."

 

So...ya thinking jedi would win, the force can pretty much do anything.

 

True but only those who are one with the force can do anything and i think only jacen solo is the only one who did that while he was still alive.

I think it all depends highly on context. Are we assuming 'average' representatives of both sides (and ignoring some of the things 'exceptional' members can do by virtue of their exceptional status)? Or are we assuming a 'best of' scenario? That can get a little more tricky, as the power-bar swings in an absurd manner when dealing with the Jedi Order's absolute greatest, though the Space Marine chapters 'greatest' can do some patently ridiculous things for just one lone man.

 

Examining the situation between an 'average' Jedi vs. an 'average' Space Marine Battle Brother, it depends on who gets the drop. The majority of the advantage is in the Space Marine's court, as if he gets the drop it's game over, and even if he doesn't, it depends on if the Jedi will attempt a deflection of bolter rounds or not. If it moves into close-combat, the Marine can still leverage a higher 'baseline' combat skillset and can generally survive the loss of body parts for a brief enough period to at least force a draw. I'd give it to the Jedi in a 70/30 ratio if they did get the drop, though. In a straight-up confrontation at an 'ideal' range for both, I'd say it's more 60/40 in favor of the Marine (and 80/20 if the Marine gets the drop). Averaging it out, that's 170 vs. 130 in favor of the Jedi.

 

That's factoring in the fact that your average Battle Brother is fully capable of dealing with precognitive opponents in light armor with deceptive range on a regular basis (Farseer vs. Space Marine) in close-combat and even at range and still coming out ahead (barring telepathic combat or the Farseer getting first-shot and having Eldritch Storm, in which case, sucks to be the Marine) and one that can generally ignore the armor they have. Looking at it, beyond the WS/BS ratings, a standard Eldar Farseer has roughly equivlant statlines to what you would expect an average Jedi to have anyway. Likely closer to a Warlock with Farseer psychic powers, though.

 

Best-of the Jedi Order vs. Best of the Space Marines, though? That becomes more subjective and isn't something I'd readily hand to the Space Marine on a one-off encounter scenario, even if we assume the greatest ever Librarians to exist (though it would probably be a thoroughly metal fight scene). Again, a lot of the issue is going to be in what we're actually considering for the fight itself. There's a lot of variables that can be thrown into it.

As Vader once said

 

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."

 

So...ya thinking jedi would win, the force can pretty much do anything.

 

I love that line because every time I hear it I think... Yeah blowing up a planet is still a greater power then shooting lighting bolts out of your hand or even force choking someone.

I think it all depends highly on context. Are we assuming 'average' representatives of both sides (and ignoring some of the things 'exceptional' members can do by virtue of their exceptional status)? Or are we assuming a 'best of' scenario? That can get a little more tricky, as the power-bar swings in an absurd manner when dealing with the Jedi Order's absolute greatest, though the Space Marine chapters 'greatest' can do some patently ridiculous things for just one lone man.

 

Examining the situation between an 'average' Jedi vs. an 'average' Space Marine Battle Brother, it depends on who gets the drop. The majority of the advantage is in the Space Marine's court, as if he gets the drop it's game over, and even if he doesn't, it depends on if the Jedi will attempt a deflection of bolter rounds or not. If it moves into close-combat, the Marine can still leverage a higher 'baseline' combat skillset and can generally survive the loss of body parts for a brief enough period to at least force a draw. I'd give it to the Jedi in a 70/30 ratio if they did get the drop, though. In a straight-up confrontation at an 'ideal' range for both, I'd say it's more 60/40 in favor of the Marine (and 80/20 if the Marine gets the drop). Averaging it out, that's 170 vs. 130 in favor of the Jedi.

 

That's factoring in the fact that your average Battle Brother is fully capable of dealing with precognitive opponents in light armor with deceptive range on a regular basis (Farseer vs. Space Marine) in close-combat and even at range and still coming out ahead (barring telepathic combat or the Farseer getting first-shot and having Eldritch Storm, in which case, sucks to be the Marine) and one that can generally ignore the armor they have. Looking at it, beyond the WS/BS ratings, a standard Eldar Farseer has roughly equivlant statlines to what you would expect an average Jedi to have anyway. Likely closer to a Warlock with Farseer psychic powers, though.

 

Best-of the Jedi Order vs. Best of the Space Marines, though? That becomes more subjective and isn't something I'd readily hand to the Space Marine on a one-off encounter scenario, even if we assume the greatest ever Librarians to exist (though it would probably be a thoroughly metal fight scene). Again, a lot of the issue is going to be in what we're actually considering for the fight itself. There's a lot of variables that can be thrown into it.

 

 

Theres something I hadn't thought about Deflecting Bolter rounds. Space marines don't use blasters so I can't say that a lightsaber would be able to defelct a Bolt.

 

however I suppose it could melt it. But if it doesn't vaporize the bolt round then the Jedi would just have a slug of melted bolt heading straight towards him.

 

Or since it's explosive it could just detonate when it hits the light saber which would hurt the Jedi.

Edited January 15, 2012 by jarjarloves

I love that line because every time I hear it I think... Yeah blowing up a planet is still a greater power then shooting lighting bolts out of your hand or even force choking someone.

 

I mean what normal people relied on to kill someone was a blaster or some kinda doomsday weapon. However for jedi/sith, they had no need for such things in fact the most powerful shouldn't have even needed a lightsaber they could kill anyone just by using the force alone.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

Theres something I hadn't thought about Deflecting Bolter rounds. Space marines don't use blasters so I can't say that a lightsaber would be able to defelct a Bolt.

 

however I suppose it could melt it. But if it doesn't vaporize the bolt round then the Jedi would just have a slug of melted bolt heading straight towards him.

 

Or since it's explosive it could just detonate when it hits the light saber which would hurt the Jedi.

 

There's a reason that a lot of people that hunt Jedi lean towards incendiary, explosive, sonic, or projectile weaponary in order to do so. Most of them aren't really prepared to handle it, and certainly not at close quarters. In certain eras, Jedi-hunting was a dangerous but not exactly 'rare' task (and in certain eras, for certain military or criminal outfits, they had entire specialized individuals that did nothing BUT hunt Jedi/Sith).

 

Exceptional members vary significantly, and at longer ranges there's a good chance they could Force Push/Bubble a deflection that way and still negate the attack (even for an 'average' Jedi), but that opens them up for other forms of attack as well (as it takes more concentration to do so).

 

I'm also only assuming that the Space Marine has the standard Tactical or Assault layout (close combat weapon, bolter, bolt pistol, grenades; Assault Marines forego the bolter entirely). No special weapons. Similarly, I'm assuming that the 'average' Jedi doesn't have anything but what they normally carry (a lightsaber).

Why compare, just look at the Eldar in the 40k universe.

 

Pretty much Jedi in many ways. Farseers with their pysic powers, etc.

One factor I think that has been overlooked (among others) in the Space Marine is their armor. Their armor is supposedly made from the hardest materials nearly impossible to destroy in their universe. That factor could be said that it's at least on par with beskar armor which in the Star Wars universe is almost completely lightsaber resistant. Such defenses combined with the Space Marines super-body modificiations would take a ton of effort from the Jedi's lightsaber to inflict a mortal wound without putting the Jedi in harms way (upclose)

 

The Bolter itself is another deadly weapon that Jedi aren't really ready for. A super-sonic round that is not only armor piecing but explodes. Coupled with it's high rate of fire, and the skill of the wielder I do not see a Jedi coping well with this.

 

Let's consider the SW equal to the Space Marine. Mandolorians (pardon me if spelling is bad) who are in many ways the closest a normal being can come to being on par with a Jedi are known for killing and besting Jedi to the point where Jedi take them as a serious threat.

 

So take a Mando, give him genetic alterations to take him to super-human levels of physical and mental prowress, and give him a couple centuries of combat experience. Oh and a deadlier arsenal to match.

 

I say that it would go to the Space Marine.

Again, Eldar.

1v1 ill give it to the jedi but not a comfortable easy or safe win. unless its a grey knight ofc then line up the jedi and send them to the slaughter all day long.

An Adeptus Astartes, in wargear, would liquidate a Jedi, no question about it.

 

Think about the titanic acts of martial prowess these guys are capable of, the genhancements, the non-blaster based weaponary...

 

A Spacemarine vs. A Sith... Might be a different matter, as the Sith use the Force to directly injure and impair they're opponent.

 

However, there all kinds of Astartes, and all kinds of Jedi...

 

Without a system of comparison I say its a moot point.

 

I love that line because every time I hear it I think... Yeah blowing up a planet is still a greater power then shooting lighting bolts out of your hand or even force choking someone.

 

That really depends. Vader's quote is rather true. If you look at the EU there's a lot of feats that make the death star's ability to blow up planets a joke. Such as using crystals to amplify your planets to detonate stars or Sidious force storm. Luke manipulating a black hole and more.

 

Referring only to the movies it was through guidance of the force that allowed Luke to fire precisely into the death star. If it's the will of the force it will happen. It was the will of the force for the sith to be destroyed. Thus. The sith were destroyed. Going by this train of logic the death star is insignificant.

I'd like to see the Jedi try and block a Plasma Gun with their sabre.

One on One? between an Average Jedi and an Average Astartes? The Jedi first has to get to the Space Marine without getting blown up by basic bolter rounds or Krak/Frag Genades, they have no advantage of speed, strength and flexibility, as the Space Marines are super humans.

 

Then we have the fact the Jedi would die far easier than an Astartes would, he has three times more organs than a normal human and we have seen Space Marines survive things that would kill any normal human and was just shoved into a Dreadnought to serve a couple of hundred more years.

 

If we move on up to Librarians vs Jedi Masters, its a rather quick battle, Psychic Powers have proven far worse than what the normal Jedi Master can do with the Force, the Jedi has also lost his advantage of a Lightsaber as a Librarian has a Power Sword, so I'm going Astartes again.

 

If we move even further up, it gets beyond ridiculously easy for the Astartes, even if we take Grand Master Luke, we would then put him against anyone Primarch or even The Emperor himself, in which he stands no chance.

 

All-out war? Astartes' Navy trumps any Jedi or Republic navy.

 

The Space Marines on the ground have a massive numbers advantage, around five hundred to One, when we consider that the height of the Jedi Order was 15,000 before the Clone Wars, just one Astartes Chapter(which there are a lot of) has more than that, their weaponry massively outmatches anything the Jedi can muster, Psychic Powers, Las Cannons and Battle-Cannons against the Force and Lightsabers? easily the Astartes.

 

Honestly, the best chance of survival for the Jedi is to disappear and wage a shadow war and hope to the Will of the Force that the Adeptus Astartes just stop caring and move on to another battlefield.

Have to disagree on this one. A Space Marine Chapter is exactly 1000 marines (plus support staff which are more or less normal humans, servitors etc.)

 

While the Marines are Superhumans, they (on a tactical level) do not have any psychic powers or precognition abilities.

 

Superhuman speed, yes, but withing physical limits. What also is an issue is that also a standard Jedi (presuming he/she is human - which is not always the case^^) also has access to high tech implants on bio and cyberware level. [Appart from what we see in the game 2 - implant slots each, we remember robotic hands, etc.]

 

So our really fast Spacemarine still moves on a basis of normal phyisics - if also much faster than a top trained human.

 

In response a Jedi may rely on the wonderful power of Force speed (available in all different shades of "fast") - so I see no real advantage here.

 

Raw strengh goes to the Marine, even without the wonderful armor. Alas Jedi fighting styles (sith fighting is something completely else) do usually not rely on strengh.

 

Superior intellect - well it is said Space Marines are superior in their mental attributes - I just fail to see it in actually every publication they show up. Neither are their tactics really brilliant nor their strategy. It's more a "KKN'D" mentality. If you can charge it - you charge it and you certainly don't try to think about what your enemy could do.

 

Space marine Armour probably can be handled as being coated with Cortosis or something like that so not much change of doing signifanct damage with a lightsaber to it.

Still does not rule out the possiblity of choping up the precious boltgun and the knife (powered weapons might be different of course). Even a lightsaberthrow may get rid of the bolter.

 

Bolterammo, Plasma, and anything you shoot at a Jedi are a waste of time - it'll be deflected one way or another (most likely just by a forcefield, an application of force push or even the lightsaber - if unlucky straight back into the face of the Marine that shot the stuff at him) or at least dodged (remember the precoginition - he knows where you'll shoot)

 

 

And now for the grand finale (some other point ill just spare you for the moment).

 

How would I try to defeat a Space Marine as a Jedi?

 

Try 1: Dont - just use "These are not the droids you are looking for!" - Mind Trick. - Since Space Marines are superhuman - "Human" is the essential word here they still might fall for it.

 

Try 2: Force lift - since the paragons of Jediness can lift things like imperial class stardestroyers an average Jedi should have no problems in lifting a space marine. - Once you have him up you turn an move him as you like right to the next cliff, or other appropriate sight and let the drop do the rest - if this fails - repeat - repeat -repeat

 

Try 3: Use Force to crush the petty armor from outside in (not a nice thing to do but very effective and not even a dark side power.

 

Try 4: Use Force to deavtivate Armor (easy going just use "stun droid") and the Marine will not even be able to move in his selfmade prison. (All those servos...)

 

 

As for all and any of these compared fights my general rule is the one prepared for the other wins.

 

Cheers

Please do not bring primarchs or the emperor into this discussion as these are beings of god like power and not a very fair comparison.

 

However if you were to put any jedi against a chapter master in terminator armor im sure they would lose complete b adas ses like marneus calgar and kaldor draigo

Edited January 15, 2012 by malevolunze

While the Marines are Superhumans, they (on a tactical level) do not have any psychic powers or precognition abilities.

 

And yet, as indicated, as far as statlines go the only thing that a Farseer (a precognitive psyker that can shoot lightning and bend fate itself) has on them is +1WS/BS, 2 Wounds, 1 Initiative, and a Power Weapon (ignores armor). That sounds a lot like the advantages we would be leveraging a Jedi with, however as indicated I don't think an 'average' Jedi would have as high combat attributes or durability (instead dropping to 4WS/BS instead of 5, and 1 wound instead of 3 - effectively giving them the statline of a Warlock, but with a far broaders weep of powers). In close-combat, the advantage is heavily in the Space Marine's favor (S3 vs. T4, even ignoring armor saves, means the chance of inflicting a significant wound is reduced. In the reverse, the Marine is more likely to inflict a wound, and come up ahead). In ranged combat, the Marine again has more options (2 shots vs. 1 while closing in, higher chance of actually doing damage; Force Pushes or Throws would be subject to armor, and Marines have some of the best in the galaxy).

 

Superhuman speed, yes, but withing physical limits. What also is an issue is that also a standard Jedi (presuming he/she is human - which is not always the case^^) also has access to high tech implants on bio and cyberware level. [Appart from what we see in the game 2 - implant slots each, we remember robotic hands, etc.]

 

So our really fast Spacemarine still moves on a basis of normal phyisics - if also much faster than a top trained human.

 

In response a Jedi may rely on the wonderful power of Force speed (available in all different shades of "fast") - so I see no real advantage here.

 

'Superhuman, but within physical limits'? Seriously? We're talking about someone that at 7' and taller moves like lightning on the battlefield, with powered armor that gives them an additional boost, and on occasion specific biological and cybernetic augmentations to increase this advantage.

 

I'm not saying Jedi aren't fast - however, the 'average' Jedi isn't that much faster then a normal human, and has never been shown to be outside of reflexes. The key thing to remember here is that at best, the average Jedi is just a '****** extra' and still the most likely to die. Order 66 wiped the grand majority of them out of the galaxy, remember, and even in KotOR/KotOR2/TOR we see them die in volume. The Mandalorians (who come close to Space Marine levels, though dropping off just short) also excelled at killing Jedi and they carved quite a bloody swathe through them in the Mandalorian Wars, even if they did fight a losing battle there.

 

Raw strengh goes to the Marine, even without the wonderful armor. Alas Jedi fighting styles (sith fighting is something completely else) do usually not rely on strengh.

 

And they regularly kill more agile, dexterous opponents on a regular basis without batting an eye, and generally in far better kill-to-death ratios then their opponents. All of the Eldar are faster/more graceful, and short of dedicated and often elite close-combat units (which Tactical and Assault marines aren't for the most part - though they're great at it, they're generalists) they clean house with them. Especially on the charge.

 

Superior intellect - well it is said Space Marines are superior in their mental attributes - I just fail to see it in actually every publication they show up. Neither are their tactics really brilliant nor their strategy. It's more a "KKN'D" mentality. If you can charge it - you charge it and you certainly don't try to think about what your enemy could do.

 

They think and react faster then normal humans for the most part, and a lot of their strategies leverage the huge advantage they often have on their opponents. When you know that you can break through almost any line, you don't go with some elaborate, grand strategy - you go with the most efficient choice. Blasting straight through the 'core' of the opposition and gutting their leadership while scattering the rest is brutally effective, especially when you can pull it off.

 

Revan was often lauded as a strategic genius, and outside of it being slammed in our face repeatedly, we never really saw any of that, either. Throughout the Clone Wars, we see a ton of really stupid tactical decisions on the part of the Jedi Generals in charge of Clone Troopers. There's a good reason for this - the people writing this stuff aren't tactically brilliant themselves. Even Tom Clancy has some tactical flaws in his writing (though he's generally great). It's a stupid point to discount them.

 

Space marine Armour probably can be handled as being coated with Cortosis or something like that so not much change of doing signifanct damage with a lightsaber to it.

Still does not rule out the possiblity of choping up the precious boltgun and the knife (powered weapons might be different of course). Even a lightsaberthrow may get rid of the bolter.

 

Going to diagree with you here, too - a Lightsaber is effectively a Power Weapon in that it straight up ignores armor saves. While we can assume that this or that happens, the end of the day, there isn't a lot that the Space Marine is going to be able to do other then avoid it (and if given proper incentive and leveraging their higher intelligence, they may clue in pretty quickly that 'big glowy energy weapon = avoid instead of parry'). However, against anything else the Jedi may attempt to do, their armor is going to straight up ignore it (even Eldritch Storm doesn't break through, and it's raw psychic lightning; Other examples include 'standard' power Imperial Guard Psyker blasts [lightning], Necron Gauss [magnetic field ripping the target apart almost on the molecular scale] and Tesla [raw magnetic lightning] weaponary, and some direct Psychic powers [Living Lightning, Smite] from other Space Marine chapters all fail to break through entirely, to say nothing of more direct physical attacks).

 

Bolterammo, Plasma, and anything you shoot at a Jedi are a waste of time - it'll be deflected one way or another (most likely just by a forcefield, an application of force push or even the lightsaber - if unlucky straight back into the face of the Marine that shot the stuff at him) or at least dodged (remember the precoginition - he knows where you'll shoot)

 

Can Jedi deflect slugthrower rounds? It's been my understanding that generally, they move too fast and are too small of a target to effect properly. The Space Marine bolter is a hyper-advanced gyrojet rifle (or pistol) that overcomes the primary problem with the design in the first place - ramp up time. This is basically throwing a grenade at you at supersonic speeds - I call bunk on them being able to deflect it outside of extreme ranges, or the 'average' Jedi taking enough levels in ****** to become 'Exceptional', and then we're not comparing them on a fair basis in the first place.

 

Direct-quoting Wookiepedia as a case example: "For example, during the days of the Galactic Republic, mercenaries fearing an intervention by Jedi Knights used rapid-fire slugthrowers that were impossible to completely deflect, unlike blaster bolts."

 

Volume of fire on a machine-gun firing explosive rounds (or any number of other things, up to and including armor-piercing adamantium slugs or plasma detonators) would overwhelm most Jedi's ability to deflect. Dodge? That I can live with, but that gives a tactical edge to the Space Marine all the same by forcing angles of attack by denying others. The ranged edge still goes to the Marine here, as the average Jedi can't do anything at range that would seriously hamper or impair the Marine, and the reverse is most emphatically not true.

 

 

Try 1: Dont - just use "These are not the droids you are looking for!" - Mind Trick. - Since Space Marines are superhuman - "Human" is the essential word here they still might fall for it.

 

Space Marines are the most hardened, disciplined, mentally forceful beings in the galaxy. Even dedicated psychic assaults on them don't always work - most mind tricks wouldn't work on them just as it wouldn't work on anyone else in the Star Wars universe that is trained to resist mental assault or otherwise has a forceful will (and Marines are given specific training to resist mental assault, as they have far more to fear about it on a daily basis then anyone in the Star Wars universe does). Anyone going for the 'mind trick' would be shot on the spot as either an enemy trick (and a dumb one at that), or an unsanctioned enemy psyker (which is kill-on-sight).

 

Try 2: Force lift - since the paragons of Jediness can lift things like imperial class stardestroyers an average Jedi should have no problems in lifting a space marine. - Once you have him up you turn an move him as you like right to the next cliff, or other appropriate sight and let the drop do the rest - if this fails - repeat - repeat -repeat

 

Bringing up an 'exceptional' Jedi to make your claim is a biased, unobjective measure. However, I'm not going to disagree that a Jedi could Force Lift/Throw a Space Marine - I will argue that this wouldn't exactly phase the Space Marine all that much, and unless they can do the throw quickly (Space Marine in full combat gear is ~600+lbs), all the Marine would do is compensate for the disturbance and aim accordingly while the Jedi's defenses are down and they're stationary (even exceptional Jedi for the most part have a moment of lowered defenses and/or stationary positioning in order to do a Force Lift/Throw - citing specifically the number of examples during the Prequels and OT of this, though I'll grant that once we breach the 'exceptional' barrier [Ventress, Vader], this becomes less of an issue. But again, we're ignoring what exceptional individuals can do here).

 

Try 3: Use Force to crush the petty armor from outside in (not a nice thing to do but very effective and not even a dark side power.

 

How often did this work on Mandalorians? I imagine if this was an 'acceptable' tactic to the Jedi to knowingly crush a living, sentient opponent without any remose or compunction, they would do it far more often. It's not even a moral hurdle for a Space Marine (the most brutal tactics are often the most effective), but if this were possible to do quickly against highly armored targets and their philosophy LET them do it, they would more often. We don't see examples of this often enough from 'average' Jedi to suggest if this is even possible. Nevermind that Space Marine armor makes anything short of anti-vehicle rounds a crapshoot on actually breaching the armor, or the fact that they could take the crushing and still function during it (numerous case examples of this - from monstrous creatures to having huge rocks chucked onto them) to get a counter-attack off (whether it hits or is effective is another story) makes this less likely to work.

 

Try 4: Use Force to deavtivate Armor (easy going just use "stun droid") and the Marine will not even be able to move in his selfmade prison. (All those servos...)

 

Mandalorian and Clone Trooper armor, and indeed a significant amount of front-line heavy infantry combat armor in the Star Wars universe is powered. I've never even seen an example of even an 'exceptional' grade Jedi pulling this off. Also, it's worth noting that the Space Marine in the armor can still move at human-speed even if their armor is unpowered. The servos are pure, gratuitous strength and movement enhancements to let them hit harder and move like they weren't even wearing it.

 

Not saying it couldn't happen, but that it doesn't happen enough in-universe for it to seem likely and that it wouldn't be as big of an advantage as it's being stated it would be.

 

As I stated previously, it's not clear-cut that the average Space Marine would win every time, but would win with a far higher average against the average Jedi. :U

Have to disagree on this one. A Space Marine Chapter is exactly 1000 marines (plus support staff which are more or less normal humans, servitors etc.)

 

While the Marines are Superhumans, they (on a tactical level) do not have any psychic powers or precognition abilities.

 

Superhuman speed, yes, but withing physical limits. What also is an issue is that also a standard Jedi (presuming he/she is human - which is not always the case^^) also has access to high tech implants on bio and cyberware level. [Appart from what we see in the game 2 - implant slots each, we remember robotic hands, etc.]

 

So our really fast Spacemarine still moves on a basis of normal phyisics - if also much faster than a top trained human.

 

In response a Jedi may rely on the wonderful power of Force speed (available in all different shades of "fast") - so I see no real advantage here.

 

Raw strengh goes to the Marine, even without the wonderful armor. Alas Jedi fighting styles (sith fighting is something completely else) do usually not rely on strengh.

 

Superior intellect - well it is said Space Marines are superior in their mental attributes - I just fail to see it in actually every publication they show up. Neither are their tactics really brilliant nor their strategy. It's more a "KKN'D" mentality. If you can charge it - you charge it and you certainly don't try to think about what your enemy could do.

 

Space marine Armour probably can be handled as being coated with Cortosis or something like that so not much change of doing signifanct damage with a lightsaber to it.

Still does not rule out the possiblity of choping up the precious boltgun and the knife (powered weapons might be different of course). Even a lightsaberthrow may get rid of the bolter.

 

Bolterammo, Plasma, and anything you shoot at a Jedi are a waste of time - it'll be deflected one way or another (most likely just by a forcefield, an application of force push or even the lightsaber - if unlucky straight back into the face of the Marine that shot the stuff at him) or at least dodged (remember the precoginition - he knows where you'll shoot)

 

 

And now for the grand finale (some other point ill just spare you for the moment).

 

How would I try to defeat a Space Marine as a Jedi?

 

Try 1: Dont - just use "These are not the droids you are looking for!" - Mind Trick. - Since Space Marines are superhuman - "Human" is the essential word here they still might fall for it.

 

Try 2: Force lift - since the paragons of Jediness can lift things like imperial class stardestroyers an average Jedi should have no problems in lifting a space marine. - Once you have him up you turn an move him as you like right to the next cliff, or other appropriate sight and let the drop do the rest - if this fails - repeat - repeat -repeat

 

Try 3: Use Force to crush the petty armor from outside in (not a nice thing to do but very effective and not even a dark side power.

 

Try 4: Use Force to deavtivate Armor (easy going just use "stun droid") and the Marine will not even be able to move in his selfmade prison. (All those servos...)

 

 

As for all and any of these compared fights my general rule is the one prepared for the other wins.

 

Cheers

 

Actually, any average chapter is around 1,000 Marines, that is the average, the main chapters on the other hand are far more numerous, the Ultra-marines themselves stood at 34,000 Marines in one of the most recent novels by Kelly.

 

The average marine does not have Psychic abilities, but the average Jedi does not have a wide arrange of abilities with the Force either, They simply don't give a Jedi a clear cut edge over the 8 foot superhuman Marine.

 

The average space marine can run so fast it's almost like a blur as described in multiple novels, their stamina is what makes them such an unbeatable force, all the other races in 40,000 have a hard time with Marines even when they have massive numerical advantages simply for their durability and skill at holding the line.

 

And you assume the average Jedi is proficient in force speed, this is not so, otherwise the Jedi would use this technique to such a degree they would never lose, as seen at Order 66, they had no such advantage over mere Clones and got slaughtered, even Jedi Council

members were just shot down on the spot, if it was the Astartes doing so, it would have been far worse than it already was.

 

As we saw when Darth Malgus was shot at by Jace Malcom, Lightsabers aren't as nearly effective against Large rounds such as Rocket propelled grenades, considering Bolter ammo is literally a grenade in the shape of a bullet, the thing would simply exploded when hit with a Lightsaber, just like what happened to Malgus, and that was with his skill with a Lightsaber, the average jedi wouldn't be so learned and Plasma? Plasma doesn't act anything like a laser does, it is far less stable infact and i don't see how a lightsaber could deflect such a thing.

 

And Mental manipulation was attempted and failed many times by many races, only Daemonic Possession and usually the will of the Marine himself has ever worked to effect a Marine and Mind Trick certainly doesn't have the power of the Warp behind it.

 

And Jedi refrain from using the force in such a way, unless they are a darker jedi like Windu, offensive force techniques are usually Push and Pull orientated, most Jedi manipulate the force internally, not the opposite.

 

This technique is nowhere near as widespread as the Order, only around 20 Jedi have ever actually Demonstrated this ability before.

 

What you are forgetting is that the Jedi Order is not nearly as battle-hardened or as savage as the Adeptus Astartes are, they wage never ending war, they have one thing on their mind and that is the next or current battle, Jedi are far more passive and even when faced with the Sith, they have always waited and watched before engaged, one of their primary weaknesses, the Astartes would never give up such an advantage, giving the Astartes time is like giving that bomb in your hand time to go off.

 

The carnage of a Space Marine assault was described in the latest Dark Eldar codex, lightning fast and devastating, Drop-pods act like bombs being dropped then unveiling Terminators, Dreadnoughts and full squads of Marines, that is not even taking into account Space Marine dropships, the vast array of artillery and tanks, which can wipeout entire blocks of buildings, the sheer carnage in those few moments would send the jedi in disarray, they would immediately be overwhelmed by the gargantuan amount of firepower the Astartes would deliver by the second, this is literally a war machine meant for maximum devastation and top efficiency, the reason being is that they have been waging war for nearly twice as long as the entire jedi order has existed, honestly, the Jedi stand no chance.

 

And I don't even like 40k anymore, it's become a kid's playground, whether it be TT or actual Video Game, Star Wars is much better, but i know this war isn't a war, it would be a training exercise.

If the force is used a lot then i'm sure the jedi could repel a space marine invasion, i imagine that their armor is very heavy, imagine the weight of a space marine dreadnaught crashing down on a group of their troops

 

The average space marine can run so fast it's almost like a blur as described in multiple novels, their stamina is what makes them such an unbeatable force, all the other races in 40,000 have a hard time with Marines even when they have massive numerical advantages simply for their durability and skill at holding the line.

 

And you assume the average Jedi is proficient in force speed, this is not so, otherwise the Jedi would use this technique to such a degree they would never lose, as seen at Order 66, they had no such advantage over mere Clones and got slaughtered, even Jedi Council

members were just shot down on the spot, if it was the Astartes doing so, it would have been far worse than it already was.

 

As we saw when Darth Malgus was shot at by Jace Malcom, Lightsabers aren't as nearly effective against Large rounds such as Rocket propelled grenades, considering Bolter ammo is literally a grenade in the shape of a bullet, the thing would simply exploded when hit with a Lightsaber, just like what happened to Malgus, and that was with his skill with a Lightsaber, the average jedi wouldn't be so learned and Plasma? Plasma doesn't act anything like a laser does, it is far less stable infact and i don't see how a lightsaber could deflect such a thing.

 

 

As was said above bolter shells are actually missiles not hard rounds like we fire.

 

Something to keep in mind is that it would probably be Grey Knights that fought the Jedi since they would be seen as tainted or demonic. All Grey knight marines are powerful psychers and nemesis weapons are more dangerous than light sabers. There are also psycannons which a saber wouldn't be able to stop. A marine can kill a man with a punch or kick and they are extremely fast. Iron halos, terminator armor, and storm shields are also protected by energy fields so are not just sliced through.

 

If the two universes were to meet then there would be no way the SW universe stood a chance. The imperium fights wars on a scale never seen in SW. The guns on their starships are large enough to fit a city inside. Then there titan legions, imperial guard and the inquisition to take into account. If the imperium was ever able to amass its entire military force against a single enemy it would be genocide.

Space Marines.

 

I dont believe you can block "slug thrower" with a lightsaber...and a bolter is basically a .75 caliber gryojet.

 

Not to mention...yea, Grey Knights would of course Mary Sue themselves to victory (THANKS TO HE-WHO-SHALL-NOT-BE-NAME'D WARD!) Has anyone seen or heard about Kaldor Draigo? The Grey Knights' Chapter Master...

The God-Emperor himself, looking at his deeds, stood up... And quit his *********** job because clearly he had become irrelevant.

 

 

So yea....Basically Jedi are psykers with glowing baseball bats, nothing the Space Marines havent dealt with.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Bobinator

Space Marines.

 

 

Not to mention...yea, Grey Knights would of course Mary Sue themselves to victory (THANKS TO HE-WHO-SHALL-NOT-BE-NAME'D WARD!) Has anyone seen or heard about Kaldor Draigo? The Grey Knights' Chapter Master...

The God-Emperor himself, looking at his deeds, stood up... And quit his *********** job because clearly he had become irrelevant.

 

Yes instead of making the primarchs the emperor should have made armies of Kaldor Draigos. The crusade would have been over in weeks, the chaos gods would be dead, the tyranids would be exterminated before they even showed up, and the emperor could take a few centuries off.

 

Beating the hell out of mortarion and carving a name on his heart was bad enough but then he goes off into the warp and rambo style destroys entire demon cities and favored demons.