Problem:

You hide in a PreMade to farm newb 50's, pretend that means you're good, and are scared to face other PreMades.

 

Solution (this is obvious, so try to ignore it and pretend it's not the case, ok?):

 

Come to the forums to QQ lobby against what would enact real competition in the form of a solo vs group X-server system.

 

 

hide in a premade?! hiding from what>?!?!!! srlsy somethign is wrong with some of these people....

scared to face other premades?thats when its FUN!..and there are so many rpemades that ..guess what...IT HAPPENS OFTEN TO FACE ANOTHER PREMADE!..geez..

Well, I think its time for make my first post ever in here, wish me luck (or hope me burn)

Im sure all things have been said million times here, but gonna repeat them anyway and maybe add some speculation as absolute truth.

Make friends

So, how is it that each 8 solo players other side of wz have easy time to find 3 decent PVP friends each for premade, but premade teams cant find 12 decent PVP players for ranked?

As bad 10-49 you have been insulted in most of your wz:s and now you should be find friends among same people. Yes, most are friendly players, but it takes only 1 of 8 to make some players eternal guildless solo queuers.

Get good

So, get good? Its that simple? Everyone cant be at the top no matter how hard they try. Even if all would train as much as best PVP players there always would be those who are far far away in distant galaxy in skill.

Voice comms

Yes, I am sure everyone has headsets with microphones and speak perfect english, but lets pretend if they would not.

Join decent PVP guild

Hey! My all time record damage is with Rage spec Marauder 280K, but most of the time its 40K-140K with annihilation Marauder. I havent won almost none one on ones in wz, but at least I have WH/BM armor (not augmented). My winning % is 5 in lv 50 wz. Can I get in your pro PVP guild? Whaaaat? No? *sniff*

Solo queue only

What prevents War Hero Geared to leave from wz when they see that their buddies arent in same wz, there is 4 or more recruit geared, there is players in full wh against them etc? This happens often in under 50 when theres many 10+ players in team.

Premade only queue

Hey! Didnt we have premade queue already, ranked or something? How did it go? Guys? Guys...? Hello.....?

I like solo queue, its perfect when I want to do daily or weekly, but weekly doesnt happen without wins and collecting comms is bit of pain when there is 0 medals matches where you are farmed at spawn point, not so many, but enough that you quit for lv 50.

I have been in casual guild and trough connections also in one of the most skilled PVP guilds in our server, so I have seen how things goes in both sides.

In casual guild I played players with my skill levels and solo queuers complained that we sucked, but loosing dint feel that bad with good company even when our team play was what it was. In skilled PVP guild things were pretty much same, friendly players, fun to play with, but with this team we mostly won. Those things werent happening in either of guilds after Guild Wars 2 and Pandaria.

With all this wall of text with very little point I am trying to say that I would love solo only queue, but not with expense of losing opportunity to play in premades. I still would like to play with players from my casual or pro guild when I have a chance.

Better matchmaking would work I believe, it wouldnt be perfect, but anything is better than things are now. I would also love solo ranked, as bad it would be only way to finally try it.

Problem:

You hide in a PreMade to farm newb 50's, pretend that means you're good, and are scared to face other PreMades.

 

Solution (this is obvious, so try to ignore it and pretend it's not the case, ok?):

 

Come to the forums to QQ lobby against what would enact real competition in the form of a solo vs group X-server system.

 

 

Hide huh, sure it has nothing todo with playing with friends/guildies and maybe they only have 4 ppl to play with and can't do ranked or maybe they are sick of pugging with whiners like yourself that do nothing to help win but tell everyone they suck in game?

And on my server you run into premades all the time which means fun games, this whole premade vs pug is the common scenario is hog wash.

only true fix is cross server ques with a better match making system.

hide in a premade?! hiding from what>?!?!!! srlsy somethign is wrong with some of these people....

 

scared to face other premades?thats when its FUN!..and there are so many rpemades that ..guess what...IT HAPPENS OFTEN TO FACE ANOTHER PREMADE!..geez..

Which is more of a reason to have a solo queue and a group queue.

The only reason guildsters/premade even pollute this thread is that they know if there was a separated Group and Solo Queue that their group would have to work much harder and inevitably win less matches and medals.

Which is more of a reason to have a solo queue and a group queue.

 

The only reason guildsters/premade even pollute this thread is that they know if there was a separated Group and Solo Queue that their group would have to work much harder and inevitably win less matches and medals.

No, its been said countless times - we dont want long queues..

The only way ill be happy if they seperate queues is if they add cross server otherwise, no way will I support that suggestion, sorry.

...TL;DR The problem isn't that people are playing together, it's that the skill level on both sides is not equal therefore a solo queue does not resolve the core issue.

Your entire post brings up good points, and from a philosophical point of view, I agree completely. However, for all intents and purposes, you're also dead wrong. The problem is that your reasoning is based entirely on individual player skill level. A premade of bad players is more often than not, going to lose to a PUG of better players.

This is objective-based, team PvP. While player skill and gear are important, they fall 3rd and 4th on the list compared to coordination and communication. THERE is the real advantage of a premade. The issue then compounds and builds upon itself because it's typically the more skilled and better geared players who form premades in the first place. 4 so-so players who coordinate and play well as a team will dominate a PUG of better players all day long. Teamwork completes objectives and wins games. Not the teams of "good" players who run around dominating everyone else.

Which is more of a reason to have a solo queue and a group queue.

 

The only reason guildsters/premade even pollute this thread is that they know if there was a separated Group and Solo Queue that their group would have to work much harder and inevitably win less matches and medals.

That suggestion is just plain dumb, it's been explained why in many different ways so go re-read. And while your at it name one MMO that does this.

Whats with this non-stop "I'm a victim" attitude?, grow a pair and step up to the plate, Or get stepped on buy those that do.

Aha, you fell into my trap. Even in full Rakata gear, me vs Soa is not an "appropriate opponent". In order to defeat Soa, I must join a PREMADE TEAM to take him down. This premade team must work together and coordinate their efforts in order to succeed.

 

PvP is no different there. I challenge you to prove otherwise. You are arguing simply for the sake of arguing.

Well that's easy, You have absolutely no requirement to join a premade to defeat Soa. You just queue up as a solo in the group finder, and you'll get a group.

This most-definitely-NOT-premade team must work together still, just as PUG teams must work together in PvP. There is no literal requirement to premade though, as you are suggesting. Perhaps you should lay your traps better in future.

I disagree, in this pvp if we consider people know what to do, then gear play the utmost important part. If you are PUG and have 3 player that hp lower than 17k; meeting a premade - i dont know about others server or side, but the premade i met were all WH + full aug - you have 80% of losing. I doubt any premade that accept player has hp lower than 17k well unless they farming for their guildmate which i think that is the reason why premade often appear in PUG, or they want to stock up medal for the up coming pvp equips.

I dont think Bioware will change this set up, unless they can divide player into different group base on their equip or skill. I mean banning premade on regular wz will prevent regular players want to fight with their friend, so they have to depend the decency of players to not picking on lower level which like hoping money grow from tree.

Problem:

You PuG and fail.

 

Solution (this is manyfold so try to keep up, ok?):

Make friends

Join a guild with PvP players (optional, but recommended)

Join a Vent/Mumble/Teamspeak/Skype/etc with guild or whoever you are in warzone with

Practice, study, duel, learn what works well, not only for your own class but for all classes

Coordinate assaults, always be mindful of the objectives

Be willing to identify your mistakes and learn from them

 

ALTERNATELY:

Come to the forums to QQ

 

Which will you choose? You're making Chibi Vader cry.

Problem:

PVP is dying and ranked pvp is a wasteland.

Solution:

Log in the game(This list might get tough for you, since it's based on facts, okay?)

Try to form a ranked group.

Fail in the process.

QQ on forums that solo queue's are messing up your ranked/group play.

Bad troll is bad.

Solo bracket will bring in the new players and let them get a taste of PVP. Furthermore they can learn what works and what doesn't at their own pace in a balanced setting. Then eventually they'll make friends they see often during there pvp match ups, hence forming a group, to eventually form a ranked pvp team.

Although this is what the premade supporters want: Competition.

How did they propose to achieve this?

By telling fresh people to PVP to "L2P"

So the next time a fresh player at pvp is getting camped at the spawn or utterly destroyed. Well let's see how he L2P's. Pretty sure they won't come back, but hey, that's how you get more competition right? By making pvp less attractive.

How's ranked going for you?

Hide huh, sure it has nothing todo with playing with friends/guildies and maybe they only have 4 ppl to play with and can't do ranked or maybe they are sick of pugging with whiners like yourself that do nothing to help win but tell everyone they suck in game?

 

And on my server you run into premades all the time which means fun games, this whole premade vs pug is the common scenario is hog wash.

 

only true fix is cross server ques with a better match making system.

Nice troll post.

No, its been said countless times - we dont want long queues..

 

The only way ill be happy if they seperate queues is if they add cross server otherwise, no way will I support that suggestion, sorry.

You don't want long queue's, yet you want to draw people away from PVP, hence making queue's longer.

Bad logic is bad.

Rethink what you are saying and actually apply it to the reality of what's happening to the game. You are promoting longer queue's with every post.

Problem:

PVP is dying and ranked pvp is a wasteland.

 

Solution:

Log in the game(This list might get tough for you, since it's based on facts, okay?)

Try to form a ranked group.

Fail in the process.

QQ on forums that solo queue's are messing up your ranked/group play.

 

Bad troll is bad.

 

-snip-

 

How's ranked going for you?

Pretty good actually. I had 5 ranked matches last night. Much fun was had by 15 of us. The 16th guy got mad though and started raging at me when I told DPS to get on a marked healer that was hanging around. Go figure, right?

Your entire post brings up good points, and from a philosophical point of view, I agree completely. However, for all intents and purposes, you're also dead wrong. The problem is that your reasoning is based entirely on individual player skill level. A premade of bad players is more often than not, going to lose to a PUG of better players.

 

This is objective-based, team PvP. While player skill and gear are important, they fall 3rd and 4th on the list compared to coordination and communication. THERE is the real advantage of a premade. The issue then compounds and builds upon itself because it's typically the more skilled and better geared players who form premades in the first place. 4 so-so players who coordinate and play well as a team will dominate a PUG of better players all day long. Teamwork completes objectives and wins games. Not the teams of "good" players who run around dominating everyone else.

I agree with some of what you said, but I don't feel that PUGs lack the ability to coordinate and communicate, they simply choose not to. I don't think giving them a solo queue will improve their coordination in the least and it will ultimately cause more problems than it fixes. When teamwork is lower and the game is less objective based, class imbalance tends to stick out more; all of the utility classes have can't be taken advantage of.

Here is an example based on my experiences last night:

I'm queuing with one of my friends (he's a DPS merc. I know, right?) and we are repeatedly running into well coordinated groups and losing pretty badly. The teams we were on kept fighting on our side of the objectives and allowing their healers to sit in the back and freecast, unmolested. I had marked any healers they had, but no one was making a move to attack them and we were just getting destroyed. Suffice to say, I was not at all happy with the situation.

From my perspective, however, I was not upset that we were facing premades and losing (I assumed a few were premades because of guild tags, but honestly don't know on all of them). I was upset that our team was failing to do the same things that they were taking advantage of: focus firing marked targets, fighting on the objectives rather than around them, and using tools like CC and taunts to keep our team alive.

Voice comms and experience playing together aren't necessary to compete against teams of up to 4 (teams of 8 are a different story). To anyone arguing that premades are the problem, I would ask you to step back and examine the situation objectively. Did they really do anything that your PUG couldn't have done (or did you really even have a full PUG at all)? They don't have 8 people together, so did you really lose to only 4 coordinated people?

TL;DR Rather than blaming premades for playing correctly, place the blame on your team (or possibly yourself) for not doing the same. Only at that point can people improve their level of play in an objective based warzone. A solo queue will not do that.

As aforementioned numerous times in numerous threads, the situation described in the post you originally quoted can happen regardless of solo queue or not. My ability to solo 3 terrible players in recruit gear at a node has no bearing on my team and will continue to happen (more often in fact) in a solo queue. Therefore your reply still does not reflect an imbalance between PUGs and premades.

 

I am not biased and will hear arguments contrary to my position, but only if those arguments are relevant to the topic at hand. I will be in support of any change that makes the game fairer and more enjoyable for EVERYONE. If it does not apply to everyone, then a compromise must be found that will satisfy as many people as possible, not one that gives the ideal solution to one group and completely alienates another.

 

While population may be an issue in separating queues, the bigger problem is the logistics of making a team with a pool of groups with varying sizes. Take out the individuals and we have to get exactly 8 on a side using 2's, 3's, and 4's bearing in mind that groups on different factions cannot be mixed. The queue times would be atrocious.

 

Many of the issues that are attributed to premades would not be resolved by a solo queue. You will still have warzones where one team has a healer and the other doesn't. You will still have warzones where one team has more skilled players than the other. You will still have warzones where one team has better gear than the other. You will still have warzones where one team focuses on appropriate targets and one does not. You will still have warzones where one team has players willing to guard nodes and one does not.

 

In the case of this game, the compromise to both groups and individuals is that there is one queue available to anyone, but the maximum grouping is 4 in order to keep things balanced and avoid a true premade. From my perspective, I feel people are trying to find a way to separate casual players from what would be considered more competitive players and advocating for a solo queue as that solution.

 

My overall point in this particular post is this: No one would complain about playing against premades if the skill level was equal on both sides. If you lost a Novare Coast by 10% with lots of back and forth turret switching, you'd probably have a lot of fun and feel the teams were evenly matched. No one in the warzone has the same guild tag as anyone else, but you find out later on that 4 people on the other team were grouped. Was the warzone all the sudden not fun because of this? Did you have no shot at winning now because you found out they were grouped?

 

If your opinion of the warzone changes because you found out there was a group, then you are biased not me. (And I'm not implying that is the case, just stating that as fact)

 

TL;DR The problem isn't that people are playing together, it's that the skill level on both sides is not equal therefore a solo queue does not resolve the core issue.

While I still enjoy your reasonable approach and not throwing a tantrum if proved wrong, unlike doom. All the things you listed are happening now.

I'm talking about having a healer one side or one or two people well geared on one side. That is going to happen no matter what, so far though no system will be "perfect". While I applaud your enthusiasm for making pvp a balanced environment, some of the suggestions I can't support.

Like better matchmaking- It's just more of the same. Maybe even more so as time goes on since PVP isn't actually fun for new players.

What I do support and think should be put in the game:

Cross server queue's

Mixed faction pvp

Solo bracket pvp.

You can easily think out of the box and change group pvp to 2 or 4 man groups for both ranked or normal warzones. So this "backfill" issue is done away with, it's a shame certain trolls refuse to think of a solution unless it only benefits them.

I already stated what I wanted in PVP many times and all those solutions help queue times. Unlike "better matchmaking", my solution will actually bring more people in, hence bringing in more future competition. One thing you are going to have to accept is this.

Ranked PVP is dieing, due to lack of competitiveness by premades. They rather pug stomp than face challenging teams. Just because one group loves ranked, doesn't excuse the rest of them. Hence why premades are ruining non-ranked warzones, because they refuse to preform on a higher level.

I probably hurt some e-peen ego's with that bit of truth

That suggestion is just plain dumb, it's been explained why in many different ways so go re-read. And while your at it name one MMO that does this.

 

Whats with this non-stop "I'm a victim" attitude?, grow a pair and step up to the plate, Or get stepped on buy those that do.

Nice attitude. So your simple solution is "Got mine, stay or leave."

Which you think they'll do? Yea thanks for making queue's longer

Pretty good actually. I had 5 ranked matches last night. Much fun was had by 15 of us. The 16th guy got mad though and started raging at me when I told DPS to get on a marked healer that was hanging around. Go figure, right?

Nice 5 matches huh? Sounds like they are coming at you non-stop with the pops.

Nice 5 matches huh? Sounds like they are coming at you non-stop with the pops.

How many ranked matches would it have taken to satisfy you? Now you are just being arbitrary.

Some people had things to do. Gasp.

No, its been said countless times - we dont want long queues...

You know what I do when the premades are flourishing and the pugs gets stomped?

I stop PVP'ing for the day.

Nice troll post.

Kettle and pot and all that. You just repeat the same garbage over and over. People are playing the game the way it was designed, insulting people and generalizing all premades as ones who are scared of playing ranked and are geared to the teeth taking the easy road only shows either A) Ignorance on a grand scale OR B) Troll

We are allowed to que regular for whatever reason we wish and is not against game policy. It is up to you to take steps toward improving your odds if you wish to do better. You are in dream land if you think people should not play together or go play a mode that is meant for a different type of play and not ment for premades only.

Am I rude here on the forms, sure I am...your kind reminds me of the all the self righteous lazy people sucking off the system looking for hand outs and welfare when you are more than able to work for yourself.

EDIT: this has been suggested before but you should read this

While I still enjoy your reasonable approach and not throwing a tantrum if proved wrong, unlike doom. All the things you listed are happening now.

You've been making statements like this one all day now. (Although many were on the deleted pages from this morning). The fact that you are constantly telling us how you are proving certain people wrong, demonstrates that you yourself do not actually feel as though you are proving anything. If you were confident in your arguements, you would not have to TELL people that they agree with you, because you would know that they would do so on their own.

That's the difference between you and me, really. You are here because you feel as though you need to prove something to us. You just want our love, adoration, respect. You probably don't get that in real life. Well you're probably not going to get it here, either.

I, on the other hand, am just here for the lolz. I don't even have to read your posts. Just seeing how committed you are to a garbage argument is quite amusing.

While I still enjoy your reasonable approach and not throwing a tantrum if proved wrong, unlike doom. All the things you listed are happening now.

Ugh... here I go feeding you. You have -never- proved me wrong. In fact, no one has given a decent answer why better matchmaking wouldn't work, and most have defaulted to "Well it would be easier to just split the queues."

I'm talking about having a healer one side or one or two people well geared on one side. That is going to happen no matter what, so far though no system will be "perfect". While I applaud your enthusiasm for making pvp a balanced environment, some of the suggestions I can't support.

 

Like better matchmaking- It's just more of the same. Maybe even more so as time goes on since PVP isn't actually fun for new players.

If the system is designed to 1.) have a big enough pool to draw from, and 2.) match on a criteria, then rarely will there be 3 WH's on one side -without- 3 WH's on the other side. Look at any game with proper matchmaking and you'll see that. (Hint, most shooters have a ranking system for matches, as does I believe starcraft and other rts, and they match opponents pretty damn well).

What I do support and think should be put in the game:

Cross server queue's

Mixed faction pvp

Solo bracket pvp.

 

You can easily think out of the box and change group pvp to 2 or 4 man groups for both ranked or normal warzones. So this "backfill" issue is done away with, it's a shame certain trolls refuse to think of a solution unless it only benefits them.

That "solves" filling, but not backfilling. Backfilling is when someone d/c's or leaves for whatever reason. With split queue's, Group play has no backfilling.

On the other hand, now groups of 3 can no longer player together. *rolls eyes* Cause that's "fair."

I already stated what I wanted in PVP many times and all those solutions help queue times. Unlike "better matchmaking", my solution will actually bring more people in, hence bringing in more future competition. One thing you are going to have to accept is this.

Nope. Your solution will still have newbies facing possible teams in full WH (think faction imbalance) and getting their *** kicked. They won't even have a chance to land on the same team as full WH premade. Where as a matchmaking system would place either all newbies together, or distribute them throughout the teams. Split queue's has -zero- safeguards to stop newbies from getting crushed.

Also, stop hiding behind "Think of the children!" If you were really concerned about new players and not players who "just wanna solo queue without losing" you'd suggest a recruit bracket like Uglymjr did, which would be more effective in nurturing "new" players.

Ranked PVP is dieing, due to lack of competitiveness by premades. They rather pug stomp than face challenging teams. Just because one group loves ranked, doesn't excuse the rest of them. Hence why premades are ruining non-ranked warzones, because they refuse to preform on a higher level.

 

I probably hurt some e-peen ego's with that bit of truth

I will not respond to statements like the above, they do nothing but demonstrate your immaturity.

I will not respond to statements like the above, they do nothing but demonstrate your immaturity.

I'll respond to it! He is just flapping his E-PEEN in the wind!

TL;DR Rather than blaming premades for playing correctly, place the blame on your team (or possibly yourself) for not doing the same. Only at that point can people improve their level of play in an objective based warzone. A solo queue will not do that.

I have never advocated for a solo-only queue, nor am I doing so here. That's my mistake for not being more clear. I've been vocal for a long time about having real matchmaking (and cross-server queues) that pits similarly geared and experienced teams against one another. Premade (4) + 4 PUGS should always face another team with 4 and 4. 8 PUGS vs 8 PUGS, and on down the line. Because this would increase queue times, cross-server is a must for this kind of system.

Nice attitude. So your simple solution is "Got mine, stay or leave."

 

Which you think they'll do? Yea thanks for making queue's longer

I can only speak for my server but PvP has been strong since launch (can get a game just about 24/7) and there is no sign of slowing, there a lot of premades rolling both sides of the ball and more are getting on board each day with team play. And yea I worked for mine and actively recruit/invite new players to group with us to get their fun/gear.And this is on a PvE server to boot. (the shadowlands)

But go ahead and play victim, see how far that gets you.