what i do know, is that if bioware really did give a **** about us as customers, they would have listened and been doing what darth THC suggested along with the cartel market updates over the past few months.

Patch 2.3 is on the PTS now. It's a start.

On the specific topic of a gift, the coin's aren't horrible but they should have communicated it differently. They should have downplayed it.

 

Something like, "We're giving you a small token of appreciation." To me, that sets the expectation of something trivial like a pet, fireworks, or cartel coins.

 

"You're super important to us and we're going to make you feel like it," sets a bigger expectation.

 

I don't even want a gift for that last part. Make me feel my subscription is super important to you by putting stuff into your game that I subscribe to do. Don't deflect from the fact that you're ultra slow about it by touting gifts and handing me gift cards. That's weak.

Agreed. Yet... they're doing something at the end of the month too. I doubt they planned another 500 CC, but even if they did, hopefully they learned from this and will do something differently.

On the specific topic of a gift, the coin's aren't horrible but they should have communicated it differently. They should have downplayed it.

Or you shouldn't have "uplayed" it.

only the players themselves got any expectations from a PR statement.

This is in fact true. Expectations are self-inflicted.

That said... Bioware should have said noting until you received the email and the coins in your account. Now, I don't personally think they did say much or promote this much in advance...but then again.. I'm not sensitive to the stimulus of "promotion speak" either.

If you put a worm in front of a bird.. the bird is going to gobble the worm. It's all the bird knows to do. Many gamers are, by analogy, birds.

Ungrateful is a more appropriate term. These are the same people who would receive a gift from a friend or relative, make a stinkface, and then ask for the receipt so they can exchange it.

So, if someone bought you a type of clothing you don't wear or don't like...you'd be "grateful" and say nothing?

And your the type of person that doesn't understand the phrase "Quality over Quantity". You accept anything thrown at you.

This "appreciation" was the final straw for me. Bioware has NO clue as to how to run an MMO. It has been building for awhile now. I have now unsubbed and will uninstall the game in a few days. I am going full time over to Guild Wars 2 where you get great QUALITY content, barely ANY bugs, constant in-game events, no nickle and diming...all for no monthly fee. Yet, in SWTOR You pay a monthly fee and don't even get half of that with a pile of bugs and horrid customer service.

So, if someone bought you a type of clothing you don't wear or don't like...you'd be "grateful" and say nothing?

What do you think would be the appropriate thing to do?

Beat them to a bloody pulp and then sue them for insulting your sense of fashion?

When someone gives you a gift the polite thing to do is say thanks.

Whether you enjoyed it or not, being grateful that they didn't HAVE TO give you anything but they did, should be a given.

Why is that even a question?

So, if someone bought you a type of clothing you don't wear or don't like...you'd be "grateful" and say nothing?

So if someone bought you a type of clothing you don't wear or don't like... you'd tell them you don't like it? You'll go far in life...

What do you think would be the appropriate thing to do?

Beat them to a bloody pulp and then sue them for insulting your sense of fashion?

 

When someone gives you a gift the polite thing to do is say thanks.

Whether you enjoyed it or not, being grateful that they didn't HAVE TO give you anything but they did, should be a given.

 

Why is that even a question?

I'd say thanx, but it's not something I would ever wear. It's called honesty. If more people were honest the world would go better.

No one said anything ridiculous about violence and other hogwash.

This "grateful" stuff is ridiculous from you folks. Would you be "grateful" if someone bought you a type of food you are allergic too? I mean, it's the thought that counts right? (that's what people say who didn't spend money on the gift) So, instead of being honest, you'd keep it letting the person waste their money.

So if someone bought you a type of clothing you don't wear or don't like... you'd tell them you don't like it? You'll go far in life...

Exactly. It's called honestly. And it would just be a waste of money since I would never use it or wear it wouldn't it? So, you'd rather someone utterly waste money because your too afraid to be honest.

So, what we have gathered here is that every time Bioware does something everyone should be "GRATEFUL" and have a happy happy joy joy psychosis devoid of any personal opinion or critical thinking. Every single thing Bioware does is golden and to say otherwise is "ungrateful".

Freakin' seriously...this is half of why I left the game now. People like you who are high on the drug of "devoted" fanboyism to a blasted product. It's bloody psychotic.

This "grateful" stuff is ridiculous from you folks. Would you be "grateful" if someone bought you a type of food you are allergic too? I mean, it's the thought that counts right? (that's what people say who didn't spend money on the gift) So, instead of being honest, you'd keep it letting the person waste their money. .

If they didn't know I was allergic to it and they bought it because they thought I'd enjoy it, yes I would be "grateful". I don't understand why that is so hard to understand. Someone cares enough to spend money to buy you something. That alone IS reason enough to be grateful.

I also don't understand what this whole "letting the person waste their money" is supposed to mean. They already DID spent their money to buy it. If I'm allergic to it, I'll say that I can't eat it because I'm allergic but I WILL say thanks for the thought.

So, what we have gathered here is that every time Bioware does something everyone should be "GRATEFUL" and have a happy happy joy joy psychosis devoid of any personal opinion or critical thinking. Every single thing Bioware does is golden and to say otherwise is "ungrateful".

 

Freakin' seriously...this is half of why I left the game now. People like you who are high on the drug of "devoted" fanboyism to a blasted product. It's bloody psychotic.

Except, in this case you used a very bad example. You stopped talking about the game and started using examples from real life.

No one said you should have a "happy happy joy joy psychosis" every time Bioware gives you something. Nor is everyone who doesn't particularly enjoy what they give them, "ungrateful".

Your real-life example, however, is the epitome of ungratefulness and quite frankly, I don't think many people care why someone who's only ever satisfied when he gets exactly what he wants, is leaving.

Have a nice one!

What do you think would be the appropriate thing to do?

Beat them to a bloody pulp and then sue them for insulting your sense of fashion?

 

When someone gives you a gift the polite thing to do is say thanks.

Whether you enjoyed it or not, being grateful that they didn't HAVE TO give you anything but they did, should be a given.

 

Why is that even a question?

On the contrary, the whole thing was about the value of a subscription. If people paid $15 per month and still had to pay for other things in game such as the barber shop feature etc.., what was the point. Nickle an dimming at its worst even to subscribers. Give subscribers a reason to feel that money actually means something. Not a stupid one time gift card of $5. The value of subscribing is becoming more and more worthless as time goes on. Little by little the changes are so subtle but eventually your sub will have very little value.

Good game.

This is in fact true. Expectations are self-inflicted.

 

That said... Bioware should have said noting until you received the email and the coins in your account. Now, I don't personally think they did say much or promote this much in advance...but then again.. I'm not sensitive to the stimulus of "promotion speak" either.

 

If you put a worm in front of a bird.. the bird is going to gobble the worm. It's all the bird knows to do. Many gamers are, by analogy, birds.

Disagree. Expectations are only self-inflicted when nothing is said to create them. In this case, BWEA said something to create expectations.

The value of subscribing is becoming more and more worthless as time goes on. Little by little the changes are so subtle but eventually your sub will have very little value.

Good game.

2.3 is on PTS now.

So, if someone bought you a type of clothing you don't wear or don't like...you'd be "grateful" and say nothing?

 

And your the type of person that doesn't understand the phrase "Quality over Quantity". You accept anything thrown at you.

 

This "appreciation" was the final straw for me. Bioware has NO clue as to how to run an MMO. It has been building for awhile now. I have now unsubbed and will uninstall the game in a few days. I am going full time over to Guild Wars 2 where you get great QUALITY content, barely ANY bugs, constant in-game events, no nickle and diming...all for no monthly fee. Yet, in SWTOR You pay a monthly fee and don't even get half of that with a pile of bugs and horrid customer service.

You have no idea what type of person I am, so shut it down. I know how to graciously accept a gift. Something that a select few here could do well to learn.

And, yes, I would accept the article of clothing, hold on to it for a little while and then donate it. That's how it's done.

if i were to say "i don't like spending money on the cartel market. i think the cartel market is not fun and i would rather see some sort of game content"

and then bioware said "we're listening, and we care. here are some cartel coins for you spend in the cartel market, because we know you think that's fun"

that's not necessarily something a person would be grateful for, since the gift clearly shows they are not listening and they don't care.

of course there are other people who had said "i love spending money in the cartel market. i would never want to actually play the game to get the ewok, i have better things to do, and don't really like playing the game anyway. i would much rather just buy stuff." for those people, this is perhaps a more appropriate gift and i think those people are grateful and showing gratitude.

You have no idea what type of person I am, so shut it down. I know how to graciously accept a gift. Something that a select few here could do well to learn.

 

And, yes, I would accept the article of clothing, hold on to it for a little while and then donate it. That's how it's done.

Again dude, it's not a gift. Nothing comes from BW that didn't come from us first in the form of money. They are trying to add value for Subscribers, but the gift analogy should go away.

In fact, I think I regret using it to begin with. A company cannot give you a gift if you paying that company. They can take slightly less profit and that is all. In all the ways BW could take slightly less profit to show appreciation, I think this was to me, one of the worst ways to do it.

Your real-life example, however, is the epitome of ungratefulness and quite frankly, I don't think many people care why someone who's only ever satisfied when he gets exactly what he wants, is leaving.

Believe me, they don't.

Again dude, it's not a gift. Nothing comes from BW that didn't come from us first in the form of money. They are trying to add value for Subscribers, but the gift analogy should go away.

Free, yes, gift, no. Gifts do not have prerequisites.

I believe that those who are disappointed are representing their case rather poorly with all this talk of "gratefulness", when being thankful or receiving gifts have nothing to do with it in my opinion. If you all would allow me I'd like to give my two cents:

I think the problem stems with the game's F2P model. I say this because there are models that exist in the market today that do not add such a vast amount of restrictions and limitations to the free players that this game does. Having a F2P model combined with a subscription option is very tricky to pull off because it really is all about perception of the value of what is being paid for. Bioware/EA went the route of severely limiting the game play of the free players, making it more of an extended trial. Subscribers, as a result, are left with the base game.

Okay, so on some level this makes sense right? However, I have said it is largely based on perception. Bioware/EA have focused heavily on the cartel market, shortly after laying off many developers. This sets an uneasy precedent for subscribers as it leaves the future of this game in question. Can Bioware release content at a reasonable rate? Will we continue to get paid expansions that are arguably lacking in content (when compared to the "expansions" of other MMOs)?

The disappointment here lies with the future of this MMO for subscribers, and how our money is being put to use in the company and the future of this game. Providing us with 500cc for the market is commendable, and is a very nice thought, but doesn't change the underlying perception of the game's future.

Apologies for the rant, but one last thought; there is a large difference in how players want the money to be spent on this game:

1.) F2P players who spend money on the cartel market want BW to spend that money developing content for the Cartel Market.

2.) Subscribers want their subscription money to be spent on new, free content that they can play, and free items they can acquire.

Unless there is an equal and significant amount of each, a division between the players will remain.

EDIT: Also, apologies if this logic doesn't flow very well or some things didn't come off correctly. I'm not proofreading and am really just putting thoughts in writing as they come.

I

 

Your real-life example, however, is the epitome of ungratefulness and quite frankly, I don't think many people care why someone who's only ever satisfied when he gets exactly what he wants, is leaving.

 

Have a nice one!

No, there was nothing "ungrateful;" in what I said at all. It's called honesty.

And that's putting ALOT of words in my mouth I never said. I never once said anything about always getting exactly what I want. Overblown assumption there pal. There are too many things wrong with this game and Bioware for that matter, that's why I quit. It has nothing to do with some childish "i want my way" garbage.

Disagree. Expectations are only self-inflicted when nothing is said to create them. In this case, BWEA said something to create expectations.

 

2.3 is on PTS now.

Expectations are self-inflicted by people setting their own personal expectations, EITHER in the absence of information OR beyond what information is presented. The latter condition is much more commonly self-inflicted then the former, even on a gaming forum.

MMO gaming forums, in general are over-run with self-inflicted expectations.... every day of the week. It's as if each forum member believes that they are THE dictator of what the game devs will/will-not do.

No, there was nothing "ungrateful;" in what I said at all. It's called honesty.

 

And that's putting ALOT of words in my mouth I never said. I never once said anything about always getting exactly what I want. Overblown assumption there pal. There are too many things wrong with this game and Bioware for that matter, that's why I quit. It has nothing to do with some childish "i want my way" garbage.

What it's called is a lack of manners and couresy.

Also, curious to hear you repeatedly claiming that you 'quit', seeing as you're still posting on the forums (requires a subscription). I wonder how much of the rest of your posts have been lies and trolling as well?

Expectations are self-inflicted by people setting their own personal expectations, EITHER in the absence of information OR beyond what information is presented. The latter condition is much more commonly self-inflicted then the former, even on a gaming forum.

 

MMO gaming forums, in general are over-run with self-inflicted expectations.... every day of the week. It's as if each forum member believes that they are THE dictator of what the game devs will/will-not do.

I was slightly disappointed by the 500cc, but I think those that are upset due to entitlement issues are a small vocal minority compared to those like me (assuming others like me exist), who are just unsure of the future of the game and whether or not a $15 subscription is money well spent or not.

I suppose it could be a form of self inflicted expectations, but I don't believe so. I don't "expect" anything from a game, I "hope" that they continue to make me feel like a valued customer. Following large layoffs and a heavy focus on cartel market fluff, I am skeptical that this game and the rate at which content (w/out additional cost to subscribers) is produced is worth subscribing too in the long term.

This is the only reason for my disappointment at the 500cc as a "subscriber appreciation". While I appreciate the thought, I'm more interested in hearing how subscriber dollars are being used to create additional content. I want to hear from the developers how excited they are for the future of SWTOR and why I should be too. This is something that I am not seeing, at least in my opinion.

I was slightly disappointed by the 500cc, but I think those that are upset due to entitlement issues are a small vocal minority compared to those like me (assuming others like me exist), who are just unsure of the future of the game and whether or not a $15 subscription is money well spent or not.

 

I suppose it could be a form of self inflicted expectations, but I don't believe so. I don't "expect" anything from a game, I "hope" that they continue to make me feel like a valued customer. Following large layoffs and a heavy focus on cartel market fluff, I am skeptical that this game and the rate at which content (w/out additional cost to subscribers) is produced is worth subscribing too in the long term.

 

This is the only reason for my disappointment at the 500cc as a "subscriber appreciation". While I appreciate the thought, I'm more interested in hearing how subscriber dollars are being used to create additional content. I want to hear from the developers how excited they are for the future of SWTOR and why I should be too. This is something that I am not seeing, at least in my opinion.

This is very well written and how i feel.

Expectations are self-inflicted by people setting their own personal expectations, EITHER in the absence of information OR beyond what information is presented. The latter condition is much more commonly self-inflicted then the former, even on a gaming forum.

 

MMO gaming forums, in general are over-run with self-inflicted expectations.... every day of the week. It's as if each forum member believes that they are THE dictator of what the game devs will/will-not do.

So basically you're saying that if someone tells you they appreciate you a whole bunch and are going to make you feel special, then they hand you a $10 Target gift card, you're going to feel special?

Cheap date.

So basically you're saying that if someone tells you they appreciate you a whole bunch and are going to make you feel special, then they hand you a $10 Target gift card, you're going to feel special?

Actually, what I am saying is most MMO players hear a teaser statement from an MMO company and then proceed to self-tease themselves into a frenzy of projection. Then reality comes, and they come down off the frenzy all grumpy and hung-over looking for a fix.

TL;DR don't tease yourself with anything an MMO company pre-announces. Wait and see.... which I know is exceedingly hard for some people to do.

The only way Bioware can address this social malady in the player base is to not tell them squat in advance.. but then we have temper tantrums in the forum that they are not communicating. Some things are just inevitable I guess.. and QQ in an MMO forum at the big bad developers is inevitable regardless what the developer does/does_not do.

Actually, what I am saying is most MMO players hear a teaser statement from an MMO company and then proceed to self-tease themselves into a frenzy of projection. Then reality comes, and they come down off the frenzy all grumpy and hung-over looking for a fix.

 

TL;DR don't tease yourself with anything an MMO company pre-announces. Wait and see.... which I know is exceedingly hard for some people to do.

 

The only way Bioware can address this social malady in the player base is to not tell them squat in advance.. but then we have temper tantrums in the forum that they are not communicating.

Ah come on. You know I didn't "tease myself into a frenzy of projection".

They hyped this subscriber appreciation up and then they handed us basically a $4 gift card to the cartel market, the antithesis of everything many / most subscribers want in this game. How is it so hard for you to understand that such a move doesn't make very many subscribers feel even a little bit appreciated?