Since I do know, I am numb. Numb from explaining. Numb from communicating the same stuff over and over.

Yeah, I'm numb. To the point when I just completely stopped caring. I will still call incomings, but that's pretty much it.

my point was directly countering your point that expertise is overrated, *******. and you would get smashed by a geared dps juggie (also tank AC) for 7k if you had no expertise. pretty much everyone would be putting crazy damage on you and you would be doing nothing to them. and yeah my railshot crits geared targets for 4k. come at me bro.

"come at me bro" << that tells me your age range.... lol.

But on the topic... you're argument is supposed to somehow convince people that If you don't PVP in at least Recruit then you would get owned.... So if i wore PVE gear with 0 expertise then your team would constantly zerg me and destroy me over and over... but If i wore recruit gear then i get an anti zerg buff of some kind? pff what ever, those guys in top gear will, without a doubt destroy people in recruit... but put those same guys against someone of equal skill in rakata / campaign and see how they measure up... At least try it before you respond with a childish "come at me bro" ... lol.

People are saying that you would be USELESS unless you had at least full recruit gear.. That simply is not true. Recruit gear is just as terrible as lower tier PVE gear.

People are saying that they would rather have someone in full recruit then in full Rakata... this is ridiculous.

You are saying that you would crit me for 5k if i had no expertise.... but implying that those crits would not hit me for so much damage if i wear recruit gear. Get real. Go get some of your friends and test it out and you'll see what im talking about. Your entire argument is basically stating the obvious: *Juggs and PTs in Top Gear do a lot of damage* << lol. Oh really? No one had any idea of this...

Railshot your buddy in recruit a few times and record the damage. Then rail shot that same guy in columi gear and record the damage. If there is any kind of difference it would be so minuscule that it would prove my point of expertise being overrated.

Is this 'snow' and 'grass' thing in Alderaan a new designation for the nodes, I've only really noticed it over that last couple of weeks.

I still call them LS (for Landing Site) and Gen (for Generator)....Sorry is it just me or if you can't learn the name and location of 2 bases you should just quit.

LOL!!! I have NEVER seen them called that and what sense does that make? Landing site and generator? Is this more easier recognized than grass and snow? If I'm ever lost I hope to never run into you when asking for directions.

But to the OP.... yeah, it gets pretty damn annoying. I'm amazed that someone can level to 50 and still have NO CLUE. There is what? Probably over 100 hours invested to get to 50? Just throwing a random number out there but seriously.... Even if it's 60 hours, that should be enough time to figure out the BASICS!

 

People are saying that you would be USELESS unless you had at least full recruit gear.. That simply is not true. Recruit gear is just as terrible as lower tier PVE gear.

 

People are saying that they would rather have someone in full recruit then in full Rakata... this is ridiculous.

 

.

I would rather see someone in recruit gear than lower tier PvE gear... they will perform better and on top of that. At least it shows that it's ONE more player that gets it.

Rakata on the other hand... it's endurance over mitigation. I'd say Rakata and recruit would damn near perform about equally.

Recruit gear isn't bad at all esp when you combine it with a fort stim to make up for the lack of HP, baddies like to use it as an excuse on why they suck in WZ's "but i'm wearing recruit gear...waahhh I can't break 100k dps". I've broken 300k plenty of times wearing recruit on my marauder and my sniper is 80% recruit because I just started pvp grinding him and I just broke 771k last week. Recruit gear is superior to PvE gear...having zero expertise will cause you to get killed in a single dps rotation (esp a carnage marauder gore/ravage/scream combo.)

The math is against you on this one. As an example, my Shadow tank in full Rakata/BH ear/Campaign offhand has roughly 7k more HP then when I'm in a combination of Recruit and Battlemaster (8 pieces BM, 6 recruit). Were I in just full recruit this difference would be even more exaggerated and I'd have 9-10k more HP.

In full War Hero you'll do roughly 24% more damage to a 0 expertise player. Let's assume your highest damaging ability has a tool tip value of 4k max damage, that means against me you'd have a max damage of 4960. 960 more damage. That isn't exactly a big deal when I'm compensating by having 7-10k more HP.

In recruit gear I'd have a 15% damage reduction. So instead of taking a maximum of 4960 damage I'd take a max of 4216 damage BUT 4216 dmg is a much bigger chunk out of 14-15k HP than 4960 dmg is out of 24k HP.

Calculations on damage output would vary a lot, but suffice to say the massive main and secondary stat boost from Rakata gear + over Recruit would probably make the damage reduction difference negligible also.

So contrary to popular belief, someone PVPing in Rakata gear or better while waiting to get BM is actually doing you a favor. Only brand spanking new 50s benefit from Recruit.

guys, please don't turn this into a grass vs. snow/east vs. west/left vs. right argument

^^ LOL i know right! ... makes me want to re-read that snow/grass thread again... all 3000 pages of it.

Is this 'snow' and 'grass' thing in Alderaan a new designation for the nodes, I've only really noticed it over that last couple of weeks.

I still call them LS (for Landing Site) and Gen (for Generator)....Sorry is it just me or if you can't learn the name and location of 2 bases you should just quit.

Quit because people call it a name that is easier to understand to the community has a whole? That seems a little bit stupid. Almost every player knows what "Snow" and "Grass" is, and if not they can say "what's that?" in the chat to get an explanation so then they can know. If you say LS people will not understand and there for not go to which ever side that is (yes, I don't know what side it is. I go by snow/grass or left/right or east/west).

The math is against you on this one. As an example, my Shadow tank in full Rakata/BH ear/Campaign offhand has roughly 7k more HP then when I'm in a combination of Recruit and Battlemaster (8 pieces BM, 6 recruit). Were I in just full recruit this difference would be even more exaggerated and I'd have 9-10k more HP.

In full War Hero you'll do roughly 24% more damage to a 0 expertise player. Let's assume your highest damaging ability has a tool tip value of 4k max damage, that means against me you'd have a max damage of 4960. 960 more damage. That isn't exactly a big deal when I'm compensating by having 7-10k more HP.

In recruit gear I'd have a 15% damage reduction. So instead of taking a maximum of 4960 damage I'd take a max of 4216 damage BUT 4216 dmg is a much bigger chunk out of 14-15k HP than 4960 dmg is out of 24k HP.

 

Calculations on damage output would vary a lot, but suffice to say the massive main and secondary stat boost from Rakata gear + over Recruit would probably make the damage reduction difference negligible also.

 

So contrary to popular belief, someone PVPing in Rakata gear or better while waiting to get BM is actually doing you a favor. Only brand spanking new 50s benefit from Recruit.

In medium to top end PvE gear you have the following advantages:

Higher Main Stat

Higher Secondary Stat (since no Expertise Budgeted)

Higher Endurance

Higher Armor

All of these combined wind up being greater than the Bonus Damage and Damage Mitigation from Recruit level Expertise meaning those PvE gear sets are superior for PvP than Recruit gear.

Again though, you will still die in 2-3 GCDs (4-5 in BH) of being focused making this entire debate pointless.

Railshot your buddy in recruit a few times and record the damage. Then rail shot that same guy in columi gear and record the damage. If there is any kind of difference it would be so minuscule that it would prove my point of expertise being overrated.

I don't get it. When you select the PVP tab under damage reduction do you think they're like, lying to you or something? Are you one of those guys that thinks we never landed on the moon too?

I don't get it. When you select the PVP tab under damage reduction do you think they're like, lying to you or something? Are you one of those guys that thinks we never landed on the moon too?

His point is that medium to high end PvE gear has better stats than Recruit that offset the PvP tab damage reduction/bonus damage to the point where it winds up washing at some point and then exceeding as you further gear up with PvE sets.

I don't get it. When you select the PVP tab under damage reduction do you think they're like, lying to you or something? Are you one of those guys that thinks we never landed on the moon too?

Don't be a simpleton. Are you one those guys that are blind? the Expertise Bonus you get from recruit is just about equal to or worse than the overall stats you get from similar tier PVE gear... Again... TRY IT before you direct a childish insult my way... I'm not making these things up... I've tested my own arguments time and time again, and found Recruit gear to perform just about equally to lower tier PVE gear.

Don't be a simpleton. Are you one those guys that are blind? the Expertise Bonus you get from recruit is just about equal to or worse than the overall stats you get from similar tier PVE gear... Again... TRY IT before you direct a childish insult my way... I'm not making these things up... I've tested my own arguments time and time again, and found Recruit gear to perform just about equally to lower tier PVE gear.

Ok, let's stop kidding ourselves now too.

People mostly are not waiting until they get full campaign/rakata gear before entering a WZ. These baddies are taking the credits over the recruit set and entering the WZ with greens/blue mods. Also, to add on the argument if I do see a guy wearing full campaign gear in my WZ then I know he is probably going to get his *** rolled because he has been level 50 long enough to get full campaign before getting a single BM piece.

Someone who does nothing but PvE can't understand the pace and strategy of an opponent that doesn't fight back on a programed rotation. Yes I said it, good PvPers are going to kick your PvE ***.

Don't be a simpleton. Are you one those guys that are blind? the Expertise Bonus you get from recruit is just about equal to or worse than the overall stats you get from similar tier PVE gear... Again... TRY IT before you direct a childish insult my way... I'm not making these things up... I've tested my own arguments time and time again, and found Recruit gear to perform just about equally to lower tier PVE gear.

Can you explain why you think the similar tier PvE gear is better than Recruit?

Thanks.

"come at me bro" << that tells me your age range.... lol.

 

But on the topic... you're argument is supposed to somehow convince people that If you don't PVP in at least Recruit then you would get owned.... So if i wore PVE gear with 0 expertise then your team would constantly zerg me and destroy me over and over... but If i wore recruit gear then i get an anti zerg buff of some kind? pff what ever, those guys in top gear will, without a doubt destroy people in recruit... but put those same guys against someone of equal skill in rakata / campaign and see how they measure up... At least try it before you respond with a childish "come at me bro" ... lol.

 

People are saying that you would be USELESS unless you had at least full recruit gear.. That simply is not true. Recruit gear is just as terrible as lower tier PVE gear.

 

People are saying that they would rather have someone in full recruit then in full Rakata... this is ridiculous.

 

You are saying that you would crit me for 5k if i had no expertise.... but implying that those crits would not hit me for so much damage if i wear recruit gear. Get real. Go get some of your friends and test it out and you'll see what im talking about. Your entire argument is basically stating the obvious: *Juggs and PTs in Top Gear do a lot of damage* << lol. Oh really? No one had any idea of this...

 

Railshot your buddy in recruit a few times and record the damage. Then rail shot that same guy in columi gear and record the damage. If there is any kind of difference it would be so minuscule that it would prove my point of expertise being overrated.

yeah, recruits are speedbumps on my road to victory. people with no expertise? that's like an ice cream stand on my road to victory.

Don't be a simpleton. Are you one those guys that are blind? the Expertise Bonus you get from recruit is just about equal to or worse than the overall stats you get from similar tier PVE gear... Again... TRY IT before you direct a childish insult my way... I'm not making these things up... I've tested my own arguments time and time again, and found Recruit gear to perform just about equally to lower tier PVE gear.

I get that but look at what you said. "Attack two people and record your crits" - guess what, the guy without any expertise will take hits about 18% higher. Yeah, campaign/rakata gear is better than recruit gear - I don't think OP is complaining about people in full campaign gear putting out 400k damage in the warzone with 2 deaths. Or at least, the types of people that I see without any PVP gear aren't in campaign/black hole gear - they're in ridiculously bad leveling gear and get owned like they aren't even there.

And besides, since when is recruit gear "similar tier" to Rakata and Black Hole gear? You get recruit gear free for hitting level 50 once you get back to the fleet. Recruit gear is far better than Tionese and Columni.

Ok, let's stop kidding ourselves now too.

 

People mostly are not waiting until they get full campaign/rakata gear before entering a WZ. These baddies are taking the credits over the recruit set and entering the WZ with greens/blue mods. Also, to add on the argument if I do see a guy wearing full campaign gear in my WZ then I know he is probably going to get his *** rolled because he has been level 50 long enough to get full campaign before getting a single BM piece.

 

Someone who does nothing but PvE can't understand the pace and strategy of an opponent that doesn't fight back on a programed rotation. Yes I said it, good PvPers are going to kick your PvE ***.

I'm actually PVPing 80% of the time im logged on. I have 4 toons above valor 60. I too Find PVP more challenging / fun than PVE.... But that's not what we are discussing / debating. I'm mostly just stating my PoV on Expertise being over inflated. Recruit Gear is so terrible, and people are insisting that it's better than Mid to high tier PVE gear... this is not true..a couple people have even shown mathematically that recruit is not better...

I'm actually PVPing 80% of the time im logged on. I have 4 toons above valor 60. I too Find PVP more challenging / fun than PVE.... But that's not what we are discussing / debating. I'm mostly just stating my PoV on Expertise being over inflated. Recruit Gear is so terrible, and people are insisting that it's better than Mid to high tier PVE gear... this is not true..a couple people have even shown mathematically that recruit is not better...

Which is it? In one post you're saying recruit is worse than low end/entry end PVE gear and in this post above you're saying high end PVE gear is better. No one is questioning that the highest end PVE gear is better than recruit - that's a straw man argument. What we're saying is that, when you get recruit gear for free, it's rude to show up in worse gear than that.

I'm actually PVPing 80% of the time im logged on. I have 4 toons above valor 60. I too Find PVP more challenging / fun than PVE.... But that's not what we are discussing / debating. I'm mostly just stating my PoV on Expertise being over inflated. Recruit Gear is so terrible, and people are insisting that it's better than Mid to high tier PVE gear... this is not true..a couple people have even shown mathematically that recruit is not better...

Well I am arguing that recruit gear is not terrible.

Recruit > Columi

Battlemaster > Rakata

WH > Campaign

If you're looking at a fresh level 50, it's better to have recruit than full columi and it takes less time to get (instant). Therefore it is not "terrible". Comparing rakata/campaign to recruit is for *******, who spends all that time getting that gear instead of rolling with recruit and getting full BM in less than a week?

Now if we are talking full BM, you would have to be really silly to argue full BM is worse than full campaign. Simple progression makes it easy to get BM in a week, thus making recruit gear not terrible because it creates a free temporary set you get right at level 50 to use for a week.

Well I am arguing that recruit gear is not terrible.

 

Recruit > Columi

Battlemaster > Rakata

WH > Campaign

 

If you're looking at a fresh level 50, it's better to have recruit than full columi and it takes less time to get (instant). Therefore it is not "terrible". Comparing rakata/campaign to recruit is for *******, who spends all that time getting that gear instead of rolling with recruit and getting full BM in less than a week?

 

Now if we are talking full BM, you would have to be really silly to argue full BM is worse than full campaign. Simple progression makes it easy to get BM in a week, thus making recruit gear not terrible because it creates a free temporary set you get right at level 50 to use for a week.

It's true. I have a new 50 sniper. I spent all day last Saturday PVPing and got quite few BM pieces. I would go so far as to say getting BM gear is easier/quicker than Rakata.

I get that but look at what you said. "Attack two people and record your crits" - guess what, the guy without any expertise will take hits about 18% higher. Yeah, campaign/rakata gear is better than recruit gear - I don't think OP is complaining about people in full campaign gear putting out 400k damage in the warzone with 2 deaths. Or at least, the types of people that I see without any PVP gear aren't in campaign/black hole gear - they're in ridiculously bad leveling gear and get owned like they aren't even there.

 

And besides, since when is recruit gear "similar tier" to Rakata and Black Hole gear? You get recruit gear free for hitting level 50 once you get back to the fleet. Recruit gear is far better than Tionese and Columni.

hmm... I'm now positive that you misread things a lot, since you blatantly misquoted me and act like no one will notice you changing what I said to make yourself feel better.

1. "Attack two people and record your crits" << when did I say this? You see, when you use quotation marks it is generally understood that you are taking what someone else said word for word....

2. You implied that I said Recruit Gear is similar tier to Rakata and Black Hole... << again... never said this... if you have any kind of decent argument or rebuttal you shouldn't have to misquote or take what someone else said out of context.

hmm... I'm now positive that you misread things a lot, since you blatantly misquoted me and act like no one will notice you changing what I said to make yourself feel better.

 

1. "Attack two people and record your crits" << when did I say this? You see, when you use quotation marks it is generally understood that you are taking what someone else said word for word....

 

2. You implied that I said Recruit Gear is similar tier to Rakata and Black Hole... << again... never said this... if you have any kind of decent argument or rebuttal you shouldn't have to misquote or take what someone else said out of context.

I think he assumed you are comparing recruit to rakata/campaign because columi gear doesn't have enough main stat to justify the gains over the recruit set.

ppl in pve gear in pvp are a joke i dont care what lvl... my rail shot crit a guy 4 times in one match for over 7k and i dueled a guildie in full campaign and still was critting on him for 6k where as on ppl with recruit gear max crit is 4800-5400 BM is 42-46k and wh crits around 38-42.. im only BM with 3 or 4 WH pieces so i can only imagine what a full wh rail shot crit on someone in pve gear would look like 8-9k? with a TD for another 4-6k even if ur rakata or campaign ur stillin at 5k +/- hp after 3 GCD or dead cause my IM is ticking for 1k+ since u have 0 exp

people that refuse to use there free recruit gear are simple put as ignorant and will be added to ignore(if my 300 slots werent already filled with jack*ss's trolling gen chat with Jawa bulll****)

ppl in pve gear in pvp are a joke i dont care what lvl... my rail shot crit a guy 4 times in one match for over 7k and i dueled a guildie in full campaign and still was critting on him for 6k where as on ppl with recruit gear max crit is 4800-5400 BM is 42-46k and wh crits around 38-42.. im only BM with 3 or 4 WH pieces so i can only imagine what a full wh rail shot crit on someone in pve gear would look like 8-9k? with a TD for another 4-6k even if ur rakata or campaign ur stillin at 5k +/- hp after 3 GCD or dead cause my IM is ticking for 1k+ since u have 0 exp

 

people that refuse to use there free recruit gear are simple put as ignorant add will be added to ignore(if my 300 slots werent already filled with jack*ss's trolling gen chat with Jawa bulll****)

You are aware that the term "PvE gear" covers more than leveling gear, right?

You should qualify your statements in order to avoid repeating the last 2-3 pages

recruit gear completely blows. expertise is put on way too high of a pedestal, full rakata is better than recruit gear. campaign is so much better.

 

When they changed the WH relics to be bis for pretty much every class, I pvp'd on my merc in campaign gear and completely obliterated people for a day until I had all my comms. Some random scrub, probably like you, would complain about my gear and then at the end of the match I'd have 400k+ dmg and like 3 deaths and he'd shut up. Recruit does nothing for you unless your gear is like all daily mods.

This is about fresh 50s. You don't magically get a set of rakata gear when you hit 50.