I don't like running into roflstomping premades either, but I also don't want to get penalized and forced into a bracket when I want to PvP with some of my friends.

I agree that people shouldn't be forced into different brackets, BW just needs to improve the match up system so that premade vs premade and pug vs pug is more common.

But when I come across a premade roflstomping recruits all it comes off as cowardice. A premade in WH winning against a PUG in Recruit is the equivalent of a bunch of adults beating up children and claiming they won.

BW actually already came up with a place for teams to play for some challenge but it has its flaws, plus from what I hear all the premades get sick of being roflstomped by superior ranked players.

No wonder they come back to the easy queue to beat up on the recruits to feel better about themselves.

The fix is obviously going to be a bit complex. But also don't pretend you're the victim while you're beating up on the recruits.

But when I come across a premade roflstomping recruits all it comes off as cowardice. A premade in WH winning against a PUG in Recruit is the equivalent of a bunch of adults beating up children and claiming they won.

We cant' blame the premades. They don't get to to choose their opponents.

I'm all for a proper matchmaking. Unfortunately such a matchmaking is probably not coming anytime soon, so as a mean to fix the problem until a proper matchmaking is rolled out, I still consider a split queue the best solution.

In the meantime i will insta-leave grossly uneven warzones while considering if my sub is worth its price.

This game already has matchmaking.

Could you show me the quote where Bioware state that this is in the game?

Could you show me the quote where Bioware state that this is in the game?

No, but like most MMOs the players reverse engineer the mechanics of the game years before the developers tell us anything. I gave a pretty decent explanation starting on page 87 of this thread, and it matched most peoples experience. Go back to the page and those following it for more details but here is some out of context explination.

So my understanding, and I could be mistaken, is that the que already tries to put a premade against premade and double premade against double premade in reg wzs. The que just prioritizes speed over balance.

 

You'll notice ques tend to pop all at once for people across your sever. I believe the reason for this is that the system only actually tries to create matches once every two minutes or so. I was under the impression though that when the system tried to create matches it did put premades against one another if it can, it just isn't willing to wait another 2 minutes cycle or two to make it happen. I think given how many subs BW lost when que times got long this is probably a wise decision on their part.

 

So if the above is true (and we can't know since BW hasn't told us, but my experiances through all the population changes and server merges suggest it is) what exactly do the "premades are runing it" people want done? Match making already exists, it just puts more emphesis on speed than you might like. Maybe they could have premades skip a two minute cycle if there isn't a premade to pair them against, but they can't really do more than that or the que times for the premades will make them quit. I don't believe people not getting matches or having to wait long periods of time to get matches is better for the health of the game than people losing but getting to play.

I think they do have or at least had a premade matchmaking system. I thought it was particularly obvious after the first round of mergers. As a premade I fought other premades 70% of the time as a pug with only pugs on my team I'd say I went against premades maybe 30% of the time. It was also extremely rare for a pair of premades to go against a team with no premades and doulbe premade most often ended up against double premade. Those numbers most certainly don't hold true anymore though. It is quite possible BW ninja removed whatever system was doing that, but I think it is more likely that the number of premades have just dropped so it doesn't have anything to pair them against within a reasonable time frame anymore. Thus they end up against pugs.

 

I think cross server queing even with their weak matchmaking system would be enough to fix this problem.

I hope that clears things up as much as the can be cleared up without a dev coming out and officially telling us how they work. I think it would also be difficult to regather more accurate data now that the population sizes are larger so we're stuck with what we know form in the past, and maybe they ninja changed the system without telling us. Don't think so though. And yes, I'm anti split que as my quoted explanations undoubtedly reveal.

People dont understand that they loose because the big majority of these "solo" players are bad...and bad+bad does not = good...

 

And thats exactly the problem, poeple avoid playing in teams..avoid learnign from others...avoid building synergie with a team and then xpect to get better?!not going to happen....

 

been around long enough to see it proven over...and over...and over again.Take WOW for example...all those World pvp, solo heroes...e-famous movie makers form Vanila wow...how many of them actualy succeeeded in rated pvp where skill is required?almost none....I love being in a team and having people giving me tips..showing me how to play better and improve, that ultimately will make me a better player...

 

this people complain about premades, BW gives them solo queue, they will keep being bad and when they are done with the egar farm they will cry about not getting into a team for rwz...and will start asking for rwz solo queue (and i have seen this already) which is the ultimate non sense retardness ...

 

The problem is NOT in solo queu vs premades...its in the amount of people not wanting to let the pvp comunity improve..not wanting to improve themselvs and choosing instead to blame people that team up and use tema play to succeed...IN A TEAM PVP SCENARIO ON A MMO(SOCIAL INTERACTION REQUIRED)

 

 

(sorry for my English)

This doesn't hold any water. A lot of players log on to get their WZ dailies in. Those players are anything from good to bad (which by the way is completely subjective and relative).

When many players log on they just want to get their daily done or perhaps only a few rounds because they don't have all day and night to play. There is no compelling reason to sit on fleet chat asking for a PvP group. First off, it can take a long time to round up even a few players who want to form a random team. Second, sometimes folks just want to jump in and play the game solo.

It has nothing to do with being good or bad. It's really about premades teams having significant advantages over groups filled with solo players.

Stack that on top the fact many times the system places premades groups together because its easy for the algorithm to put them together to make 8 and you have a system broken for the solo player.

All they have to do is do what they did in other games:

If you have a team of 4 or more you get placed in the premades queue system. If you have a team of 3 or less, you get placed into the normal queue.

Could you show me the quote where Bioware state that this is in the game?

My experience is too that there is a form of matchmaking. Granted, it's not very good, but it is there.

All they have to do is do what they did in other games:

If you have a team of 4 or more you get placed in the premades queue system. If you have a team of 3 or less, you get placed into the normal queue.

And that buys us what, 60 days before we hear premades runing regular ques complaints again? This time it will be double 3man premades plus a 2 man all que syncing complaints.

And that buys us what, 60 days before we hear premades runing regular ques complaints again? This time it will be double 3man premades plus a 2 man all que syncing complaints.

I don't claim to have all the answers but I can tell you this: it really helped when it was implemented. It completely leveled the playing field. It was rather funny to see all the premade teams flood the forums with complaints because they were running into...wait for it...other premades!

I don't claim to have all the answers but I can tell you this: it really helped when it was implemented. It completely leveled the playing field. It was rather funny to see all the premade teams flood the forums with complaints because they were running into...wait for it...other premades!

Did the other game have cross server ques? Because Cross server ques even with just our existing weak matchmaking would fix the problem.

Did the other game have cross server ques? Because Cross server ques even with just our existing weak matchmaking would fix the problem.

Yes. Eventually. It's wow. However, I don't see how folks believe that x-server queues will be the end all to the problem. A server is just a sample of the total population. If premades are stomping pugs in your server, then premades will stomp pugs when we have cross server queues.

If you are talking about the fact that premades will have to sit in their own queues and wait longer then that is simply the price to pay. When it was implemented in WoW the premade queue sat at about 5 to 10 minutes and that included cross server. Premades will have to accept reality: if you want to form a team group then you have to seat in the team queue. It's as simple as that.

Did the other game have cross server ques? Because Cross server ques even with just our existing weak matchmaking would fix the problem.

^ This, i think its absolutly stupid that this game does not have a cross server que system in place for PVP. In my opinion they need Cross server ques and seperate the solo ques from the premades and send them to the ranked que. To further add to this if you are qued as a 4 man team then they should be matched with another 4 man team and send them to ranked wz's, this would also further quicken the ranked que pops and also free up the solo quers to get there gear at a normal pace vrs being hindered by premade domination.

Yes. Eventually. It's wow. However, I don't see how folks believe that x-server queues will be the end all to the problem. A server is just a sample of the total population. If premades are stomping pugs in your server, then premades will stomp pugs when we have cross server queues.

 

If you are talking about the fact that premades will have to sit in their own queues and wait longer then that is simply the price to pay. When it was implemented in WoW the premade queue sat at about 5 to 10 minutes and that included cross server. Premades will have to accept reality: if you want to form a team group then you have to seat in the team queue. It's as simple as that.

Very well said

Yes. Eventually. It's wow. However, I don't see how folks believe that x-server queues will be the end all to the problem. A server is just a sample of the total population. If premades are stomping pugs in your server, then premades will stomp pugs when we have cross server queues.

 

If you are talking about the fact that premades will have to sit in their own queues and wait longer then that is simply the price to pay. When it was implemented in WoW the premade queue sat at about 5 to 10 minutes and that included cross server. Premades will have to accept reality: if you want to form a team group then you have to seat in the team queue. It's as simple as that.

A larger population means in the same 2 minute window between attempts to make teams the system is more likely to be able to pair premades against each other and pugs against pugs without having to delay ques in the hope another premade will que, or start an unbalanced match. Its economy of scale. Premade V pug matches would still happen, but they would be much more rare. That wasn't the greatest explination but I've got a bit of a headache. Its basically the economy of scale idea.

The one thing that i find Odd is the no response from BW on this thread despite the fact it has over 39,066 views at the moment.

An answer on the subject will commit if is to have any substance. As a game developer you really don't want to promise something you might have to renege on later. Better to let people QQ.

An answer on the subject will commit if is to have any substance. As a game developer you really don't want to promise something you might have to renege on later. Better to let people QQ.

I would rather as a paying customer have BW to tell me no, never, and if you dont like it take your business elswhere over dead silence.

I would rather as a paying customer have BW to tell me no, never, and if you dont like it take your business elswhere over dead silence.

But what if their intention is to do something about it, but they just dont know; how, when, how much it will cost, how long it will take to develop or whether it is at all feasible?

But what if their intention is to do something about it, but they just dont know; how, when, how much it will cost, how long it will take to develop or whether it is at all feasible?

You make a very valid point, Im just fustrated about the current mess with premades. This has been an ongoing discusion for quite some time now.

This game already has matchmaking. Answer the following:

 

Are you a dev of this game?

Do you know the current matchmaking code?

Do you have facts and data to prove that the current matchmaking isn't working?

 

The answers to these are probably no. The truth is, matchmaking is more of the same.

 

What are we getting with the more of the same? Well you can log in and see for yourself AKA dead ranked queue's due to lack of competitive nature from premades, hence why they rather pug stomp.

 

When you say you want better matchmaking, you just want things the way they are. Which isn't working, kinda the reason why people are leaving PVP. You want more competition? Then lure more people into PVP, it's simple.

 

Bad suggestion is bad.

Are you a dev of this game?

Do you know the current matchmaking code?

Do you have facts and data to prove that the current matchmaking is working?

Since the answer is probably no, the truth is that -real- matchmaking would fix the problem. I do not know what system is in place now, but from my experience it grabs the first 16 people in the queue and puts them together. This is how double premades manage to get on the same team vs 8 pugs. If the system matched by some criteria (gear, valor, win/loss ratio, HGA, Medal Ratio, etc...) and had enough population (Cross server queue's) queue times would be low, and balance would be high.

And I'm sick of people claiming players like me, who organize, learn the game, and coordinate don't want competition. It is solo people who don't want competition, or they would man (or woman) the **** up and take the simple steps to make themselves competitive.

Are you a dev of this game?

Do you know the current matchmaking code?

Do you have facts and data to prove that the current matchmaking is working?

 

Since the answer is probably no, the truth is that -real- matchmaking would fix the problem. I do not know what system is in place now, but from my experience it grabs the first 16 people in the queue and puts them together. This is how double premades manage to get on the same team vs 8 pugs. If the system matched by some criteria (gear, valor, win/loss ratio, HGA, Medal Ratio, etc...) and had enough population (Cross server queue's) queue times would be low, and balance would be high.

 

And I'm sick of people claiming players like me, who organize, learn the game, and coordinate don't want competition. It is solo people who don't want competition, or they would man (or woman) the **** up and take the simple steps to make themselves competitive.

+100 internets

^ THIS EXACTLY

jsut like i said, people that dont want to play in teams wont ever..EVER improve!its a fact and it has been like this in every mmo since competitive(real) pvp showed up.

Go Solo...keep being bad...keep not improving...keep being clueless about yoru class..the other classes..the game..gear..specs...etcetc...

go in a team, and get ALL THAT + more...you WILL become a betetr player and the comunity will improve, become betetr and mroe competitive,

Sadly Swtor has one of the worst pvp comnuities outthere...people dont care about being competitive..improving, or actualy being good at the game....they care more about roleplaying(in pvp lol), ..getting cool gearszzzz.....or simply doing a daily just because...well..because tis a daily(this "daily" people have no voice or valid opinion in pvp matter imo..just go through your 4 losses quick and your done..)

This is why you see in the swtor pvp stuff that is completely up side down compared to all the other competitive pvp mos outthere..people defending solo queues...solo rated queues....backpadeling..keyboard turning..clicking...twinking...ganking...and athe lsit goes on...its sad but its true, this pvp comunity lacks real pvp'rs..

(sorry for my english)

There is no matchmaking in PVP in SWTOR and people who believe there is are fooling themselves. Even limited matchmaking wouldn't put 5 sages, 1 Commando healer, 1 vanguard and a gunslinger in a match and I have a screen shot to show you that it happens. All the sages had to do was overlap their circles and no amount of focused dps could dent them.

Image

The PVE game has matchmaking but you see how that works. If you are a dps, you'll wait sometimes hours while a tank or healer queues. Even the GF queue is screwey and allow dual rolls that could easily create a tank or dps heavy group. If they did that to PVP, could you imagine the QQ that would happen when the queues aren't popping.

Only problem Ive ever had with MMO PvP is grouping. There is a problem with queue times when you start separating, unless you are able to pull from multiple servers. Elite geared players imo have no business mixing it up with standard geared players. Not only does it ruin the experience for new players but it sends a message that the game only cares about hard core players.

I queue solo, im an introvert, but I like being around the MMO population. Im intelligent enough to know the tactics of the WZ and help my team, im not the best player on the field, im willing to learn my class to the fullest extent as time limits. I have my moments of epic greatness that keep me coming back for more and Im pretty sure there are alot of people out there like me.

Ding Ding Ding, you almost got it, but I didn't say that I didn't PVP during the 10-49 bracket, I eluded that SOME people choose to do the PVE experience. All I did with my last 2 toons was class quests, FP's and PVP, but I still didn't outlevel the planets to enjoy the challenges at the level they offered. Learning to play your class in PVP in the 10-49 doesn't prepare you for the Valor/Gear/Expertise gap when players in the 10-49 bracket don't have the full use of their respective abilities.

Some experience with your toon and abilities in a PvP setting is better than none. At the very least, you learn what the point of each WZ is.

Remember the expense of getting the last group of abilities at 50? Don't you realize that some people enjoy learning their rotations through trial and error and not through the cookie-cutter sites? Are you advocating that everyone should have the max coms and be (at minimum) valor 40 when they hit the 50 bracket? Not everyone is a die-hard PVPr, especially on a RP or PVE server. What gives the die-hards the right to dictate how someone else plays their toon?

While it is not necessary for a player to have maxed valor and comms before entering the 50PvP bracket it is highly recommended.

It also does not take a die hard PvPer to reach that. Once again, if you do the lowbie daily each day, you will be close to that. Well, before they increased the cap you would be.

Lastly, no one is telling you how to play your toon. You can play it however you see fit. But, you must understand that there are consequences of playing your toon in that manner and in doing so, any claim you make about PvP being unbalanced will be looked at with skepticism.

So if you decide to PvP in PvE gear, not saying that you do, and get blown apart by a Commando, is it the commando's fault?

+100 internets

 

 

^ THIS EXACTLY

 

 

jsut like i said, people that dont want to play in teams wont ever..EVER improve!its a fact and it has been like this in every mmo since competitive(real) pvp showed up.

 

Go Solo...keep being bad...keep not improving...keep being clueless about yoru class..the other classes..the game..gear..specs...etcetc...

 

go in a team, and get ALL THAT + more...you WILL become a betetr player and the comunity will improve, become betetr and mroe competitive,

 

Sadly Swtor has one of the worst pvp comnuities outthere...people dont care about being competitive..improving, or actualy being good at the game....they care more about roleplaying(in pvp lol), ..getting cool gearszzzz.....or simply doing a daily just because...well..because tis a daily(this "daily" people have no voice or valid opinion in pvp matter imo..just go through your 4 losses quick and your done..)

 

This is why you see in the swtor pvp stuff that is completely up side down compared to all the other competitive pvp mos outthere..people defending solo queues...solo rated queues....backpadeling..keyboard turning..clicking...twinking...ganking...and athe lsit goes on...its sad but its true, this pvp comunity lacks real pvp'rs..

 

 

(sorry for my english)

Interesting perspective. I respectifully disagree though. I believe, that on average, a solo player is a BETTER player than a dedicated group player.

A group/premade only player tends to get 'lazy'. The rely on other classes/people to do well. They become reliant on the group and cannot function outside of the group. they need the coordinated ccs that a premade provides. Or the synergy of a predefined group. Thats why you see some of the 'elite' folks completely kick butt in premades, then they play a pug and they not play so well without a pocket healer, or vent communication, or stacked group of smashers or multiple cross healers. Then they log onto the forums and bemoan that premades should be the only option for pvp, cause they cannot compete on the same level in pugs that that can in premades.

IMHO, people who pug on a constant basis have to learn how to adapt on the fly to many different types of players, strategies, group makeup, etc. Anyone can excel in a dedicated premade. Its easy to pre-stack classes/healers/etc. The real skill is excelling in a group without healers, or without balanced classes. It takes skill to work as a group without vent, etc...

Interesting perspective. I respectifully disagree though. I believe, that on average, a solo player is a BETTER player than a dedicated group player.

 

A group/premade only player tends to get 'lazy'. The rely on other classes/people to do well. They become reliant on the group and cannot function outside of the group. they need the coordinated ccs that a premade provides. Or the synergy of a predefined group. Thats why you see some of the 'elite' folks completely kick butt in premades, then they play a pug and they not play so well without a pocket healer, or vent communication, or stacked group of smashers or multiple cross healers. Then they log onto the forums and bemoan that premades should be the only option for pvp, cause they cannot compete on the same level in pugs that that can in premades.

 

IMHO, people who pug on a constant basis have to learn how to adapt on the fly to many different types of players, strategies, group makeup, etc. Anyone can excel in a dedicated premade. Its easy to pre-stack classes/healers/etc. The real skill is excelling in a group without healers, or without balanced classes. It takes skill to work as a group without vent, etc...