Bolster is such a fail... What was so bad about recruit gear anyways?

People weren't smart enough to get it, and use it.

These same people though, would outright bash SWTOR to anyone that would listen though.... even though they couldn't figure out recruit gear.

The bolster intent was to remove the step of these people figuring out how to get recruit gear, and put it on.

i currently used purple PVE implants and ear and i have

 

1743 main AP

1418.2 tech power

77.08 surge

1973 expertise (58.66 dmg boost)

 

 

 

with conqueror implants/ear i have:

 

1737 main AP

1412.3 techpower

76.01 surge

2018 expertise

 

 

so i loose 5 AP and 1% surge but gain 1.34% overall dmg

 

this patch didn't really fix anything...

 

With the expertise boost, the two items are about even or perhaps the conqueror is a few points better. That said, the PvE item must be better than partizan and that is very very wrong.

Let's add some actual evidence to the discussion. I used all the maximum power crafted pieces (I realize all classes do not have this option for some slots but this is intended to be best case scenario).

A conqueror relic vs. matrix cube

http://imgur.com/a/khfA5

(just a bolstered stat comparison, does not include the value of the proc(s))

+11 bonus damage

-4 endurance

-27 crit rating (.71 crit in this case)

A crafted earpiece vs. the conqueror earpiece

http://imgur.com/a/4W0Dx

-15 exp

+.8 bonus damage

-32 endurance

+108 acc

-64 surge

-.11 crit (crit is from the main stat difference)

A crafted implant vs. the conqueror implant

http://imgur.com/a/w0Fqj

Crafed vs. conq

-15 exp

+2.7 bd

-.08 crit (crit is from the main stat difference)

+.63 surge

-42 end

A crafted weapon vs. a min/maxed partisan weapon

http://imgur.com/a/sEpm0

-19 exp

+18.2 bd

-85 end

-60 surge

-.07 crit (crit is from main stat)

+119 accuracy

Conq vs. Part stat difference:

5 power

7 Main stat

8 endurance

4 surge

Total:

5 * 0.23 = 1.15

7 * 0.2 = 1.4

1.4 + 1.15 = 2.55 bonus damage difference

so crafted vs. a conq

-19 exp

+15.65 bd

-93 end

-64 surge

+119 accuracy

-some minor amount of crit from main stat

A crafted weapon vs. a campaign weapon

http://imgur.com/a/rrTrA

-19 exp

+7.1 bd

-59 end

+119 acc

-57 surge

-.08 crit (crit from main stat)

A campaign weapon vs. a partisan weapon

http://imgur.com/a/IEe7R

+11.1 bd

-26 end

-3 surge

+.01 crit (crit from main stat)

vs. a conq

+8.55 bd

-34 end

-7 surge

Crafted, in my opinion, is not better than conqueror as the trade-offs are too high. However, the campaign weapon seems like a more reasonable trade.

I also noticed this

Patch notes:

Expertise again caps appropriately at 2018 instead of 2013. This correction to a rounding error will result in a slight reduction in PvP Damage Boost, PvP Damage Reduction, and PvP Healing Boost for expertise values below 2018.

With the expertise boost, the two items are about even or perhaps the conqueror is a few points better. That said, the PvE item must be better than partizan and that is very very wrong.

exactly

Let's add some actual evidence to the discussion. I used all the maximum power crafted pieces (I realize all classes do not have this option for some slots but this is intended to be best case scenario).

 

A conqueror relic vs. matrix cube

http://imgur.com/a/khfA5

 

(just a bolstered stat comparison, does not include the value of the proc(s))

+11 bonus damage

-4 endurance

-27 crit rating (.71 crit in this case)

 

A crafted earpiece vs. the conqueror earpiece

http://imgur.com/a/4W0Dx

 

-15 exp

+.8 bonus damage

-32 endurance

+108 acc

-64 surge

-.11 crit (crit is from the main stat difference)

 

A crafted implant vs. the conqueror implant

http://imgur.com/a/w0Fqj

 

Crafed vs. conq

-15 exp

+2.7 bd

-.08 crit (crit is from the main stat difference)

+.63 surge

-42 end

 

A crafted weapon vs. a min/maxed partisan weapon

http://imgur.com/a/sEpm0

 

-19 exp

+18.2 bd

-85 end

-60 surge

-.07 crit (crit is from main stat)

+119 accuracy

 

Conq vs. Part stat difference:

 

5 power

7 Main stat

8 endurance

4 surge

 

Total:

5 * 0.23 = 1.15

7 * 0.2 = 1.4

1.4 + 1.15 = 2.55 bonus damage difference

 

so crafted vs. a conq

-19 exp

+15.65 bd

-93 end

-64 surge

+119 accuracy

-some minor amount of crit from main stat

 

 

A crafted weapon vs. a campaign weapon

http://imgur.com/a/rrTrA

 

-19 exp

+7.1 bd

-59 end

+119 acc

-57 surge

-.08 crit (crit from main stat)

 

A campaign weapon vs. a partisan weapon

http://imgur.com/a/IEe7R

 

+11.1 bd

-26 end

-3 surge

+.01 crit (crit from main stat)

 

vs. a conq

+8.55 bd

-34 end

-7 surge

 

Crafted, in my opinion, is not better than conqueror as the trade-offs are too high. However, the campaign weapon seems like a more reasonable trade.

Thanks for actually looking this up for us.

Let's add some actual evidence to the discussion. I used all the maximum power crafted pieces (I realize all classes do not have this option for some slots but this is intended to be best case scenario).

 

A conqueror relic vs. matrix cube

http://imgur.com/a/khfA5

 

(just a bolstered stat comparison, does not include the value of the proc(s))

+11 bonus damage

-4 endurance

-27 crit rating (.71 crit in this case)

 

A crafted earpiece vs. the conqueror earpiece

http://imgur.com/a/4W0Dx

 

-15 exp

+.8 bonus damage

-32 endurance

+108 acc

-64 surge

-.11 crit (crit is from the main stat difference)

 

A crafted implant vs. the conqueror implant

http://imgur.com/a/w0Fqj

 

Crafed vs. conq

-15 exp

+2.7 bd

-.08 crit (crit is from the main stat difference)

+.63 surge

-42 end

 

A crafted weapon vs. a min/maxed partisan weapon

http://imgur.com/a/sEpm0

 

-19 exp

+18.2 bd

-85 end

-60 surge

-.07 crit (crit is from main stat)

+119 accuracy

 

Conq vs. Part stat difference:

 

5 power

7 Main stat

8 endurance

4 surge

 

Total:

5 * 0.23 = 1.15

7 * 0.2 = 1.4

1.4 + 1.15 = 2.55 bonus damage difference

 

so crafted vs. a conq

-19 exp

+15.65 bd

-93 end

-64 surge

+119 accuracy

-some minor amount of crit from main stat

 

 

A crafted weapon vs. a campaign weapon

http://imgur.com/a/rrTrA

 

-19 exp

+7.1 bd

-59 end

+119 acc

-57 surge

-.08 crit (crit from main stat)

 

A campaign weapon vs. a partisan weapon

http://imgur.com/a/IEe7R

 

+11.1 bd

-26 end

-3 surge

+.01 crit (crit from main stat)

 

vs. a conq

+8.55 bd

-34 end

-7 surge

 

Crafted, in my opinion, is not better than conqueror as the trade-offs are too high. However, the campaign weapon seems like a more reasonable trade.

Which would imply that with the fix, IN MOST CASES the "bolster problem" is solved, and it is upto reasonable standards. So, Bolster's fine now.

Any actual evidence to the contrary, I'd be also interested to see.

Let's add some actual evidence to the discussion. I used all the maximum power crafted pieces (I realize all classes do not have this option for some slots but this is intended to be best case scenario).

 

A conqueror relic vs. matrix cube

http://imgur.com/a/khfA5

 

(just a bolstered stat comparison, does not include the value of the proc(s))

+11 bonus damage

-4 endurance

-27 crit rating (.71 crit in this case)

 

A crafted earpiece vs. the conqueror earpiece

http://imgur.com/a/4W0Dx

 

-15 exp

+.8 bonus damage

-32 endurance

+108 acc

-64 surge

-.11 crit (crit is from the main stat difference)

 

A crafted implant vs. the conqueror implant

http://imgur.com/a/w0Fqj

 

Crafed vs. conq

-15 exp

+2.7 bd

-.08 crit (crit is from the main stat difference)

+.63 surge

-42 end

 

A crafted weapon vs. a min/maxed partisan weapon

http://imgur.com/a/sEpm0

 

-19 exp

+18.2 bd

-85 end

-60 surge

-.07 crit (crit is from main stat)

+119 accuracy

 

Conq vs. Part stat difference:

 

5 power

7 Main stat

8 endurance

4 surge

 

Total:

5 * 0.23 = 1.15

7 * 0.2 = 1.4

1.4 + 1.15 = 2.55 bonus damage difference

 

so crafted vs. a conq

-19 exp

+15.65 bd

-93 end

-64 surge

+119 accuracy

-some minor amount of crit from main stat

 

 

A crafted weapon vs. a campaign weapon

http://imgur.com/a/rrTrA

 

-19 exp

+7.1 bd

-59 end

+119 acc

-57 surge

-.08 crit (crit from main stat)

 

A campaign weapon vs. a partisan weapon

http://imgur.com/a/IEe7R

 

+11.1 bd

-26 end

-3 surge

+.01 crit (crit from main stat)

 

vs. a conq

+8.55 bd

-34 end

-7 surge

 

Crafted, in my opinion, is not better than conqueror as the trade-offs are too high. However, the campaign weapon seems like a more reasonable trade.

Looks good to me, why is this thread here exactly?

Looks good to me, why is this thread here exactly?

because people jump to conclusions without sufficient evidence i suppose.

 

Any actual evidence to the contrary, I'd be also interested to see.

You won't its always been a tradeoff just like the pre2.0 days. More damage, less survivability.

Some were to blinded by those epic bonus damage numbers to see how it globally affect their toon...

I think I'll wait till we get more info on the matter.

I know they said they "still" have more issues to fix with Bolster that did NOT get fixed with 2.2.1.

Cheers.

You won't its always been a tradeoff just like the pre2.0 days. More damage, less survivability.

 

Some were to blinded by those epic bonus damage numbers to see how it globally affect their toon...

Yep. Even though I do gain by equipping a crafted main hand instead of the Conqueror, the gain is now much smaller. So, I gain a 2% bonus damage from the purple item, versus a loss of 0.5% Expertise damage boost.

Net advantage 1.5% damage boost from Purple MH, or thereabouts. but weighed against the loss of health of 665, (and the loss of the damage reduction of around 0.4%) plus a loss of 1.5% crit..

Those are pretty even trade offs.....

The Ziost Shadow Mission Deck has been cleaned and footsteps no longer sound as though players are moving through dirt.

Best note.

I think I'll wait till we get more info on the matter.

 

I know they said they "still" have more issues to fix with Bolster that did NOT get fixed with 2.2.1.

 

Cheers.

Cheers.

Which would imply that with the fix, IN MOST CASES the "bolster problem" is solved, and it is upto reasonable standards. So, Bolster's fine now.

 

Any actual evidence to the contrary, I'd be also interested to see.

Is partizan better than the items above? If not it is still broken IMO.

EDIT: rereading I see he includes some partizan examples.

I would hope that Partizan is still better than the best PvE option.

Yep. Even though I do gain by equipping a crafted main hand instead of the Conqueror, the gain is now much smaller. So, I gain a 2% bonus damage from the purple item, versus a loss of 0.5% Expertise damage boost.

 

Net advantage 1.5% damage boost from Purple MH, or thereabouts. but weighed against the loss of health of 665, (and the loss of the damage reduction of around 0.4%) plus a loss of 1.5% crit..

 

Those are pretty even trade offs.....

It would be one thing if the very best PvE gear (e.g. NiM drops) were bolstered to be on par with Conqueror but crafted being as good as Conqueror and better than Partizan!?

Is partizan better than the items above? If not it is still broken IMO.

 

EDIT: rereading I see he includes some partizan examples.

 

I would hope that Partizan is still better than the best PvE option.

I really don't see the reason why Partisan needs to be better. If the PvE gear was in some way overpoweringly powerful than PvP gear, that'd have me miffed, but if its more or less same as me, then the conditions are equal, and I don't really care about how they got their gear as long as I have a fair-deal 50:50 chance of winning the fight, and no one really throws out items and specs as excuses.

Titan?

I really don't know how to break this to you....

I really don't see the reason why Partisan needs to be better. If the PvE gear was in some way overpoweringly powerful than PvP gear, that'd have me miffed, but if its more or less same as me, then the conditions are equal, and I don't really care about how they got their gear as long as I have a fair-deal 50:50 chance of winning the fight, and no one really throws out items and specs as excuses.

if Partizan is no better than PvE gear why even have it? Better to remove it an simply raise the cost of the Conqueror gear (right hand side) if they want to keep the grind the same.

Let's add some actual evidence to the discussion. I used all the maximum power crafted pieces (I realize all classes do not have this option for some slots but this is intended to be best case scenario).

 

data here

 

Crafted, in my opinion, is not better than conqueror as the trade-offs are too high. However, the campaign weapon seems like a more reasonable trade.

Whats really sad, is we are comparing gear anyone on the planet can get with no effort, to the best possible pvp gear on the planet - and its basically a draw.

The better comparison should be level 54 gear and PARTISAN gear. And partisan should still be better.

It seems to me that the core problem with the 54 gear is it bolsters expertise too high. It should NEVER be desirable to get a noobie level item for PvP. It should be a temporary stop gap measure to not get steamrolled by geared PvPers.

Level 54 purples should be losing a good 25% of their expertise versus a partisan counterpart. All else could then stay the same. PvE noobie gear will still bolster up to a grand total of 1500 or so, MORE then enough of a starting point.

Some of you babies (no one in particular) have no idea how easy it is now, versus at the beginning. seriously.

Whats really sad, is we are comparing gear anyone on the planet can get with no effort, to the best possible pvp gear on the planet - and its basically a draw.

 

The better comparison should be level 54 gear and PARTISAN gear. And partisan should still be better.

 

It seems to me that the core problem with the 54 gear is it bolsters expertise too high. It should NEVER be desirable to get a noobie level item for PvP. It should be a temporary stop gap measure to not get Level 54 purples should be losing a good 25% of their expertise versus a partisan counterpart.

Exactly! It amazes me that some folks think this is OK.

Of course if 54 PvE gear == Partizan, I consider that a much less egregious bug than if 54 PvE gear is > partizan.

It would be one thing if the very best PvE gear (e.g. NiM drops) were bolstered to be on par with Conqueror but crafted being as good as Conqueror and better than Partizan!?

even then, the best PvE gear (full set) should never bolster to much more then 1400 because of the stat gains they get. Bioware has said from the very beginning that PvE gear is not supposed to be equal or better then PvP gear. Bolster is just supposed to make the disadvantage more modest then pre 2.0.

Once again, if PvE is king, and raiders get to be geared better then committed PvPers without setting foot in a warzone, then there's really no point for non-raiders to participate.

if Partizan is no better than PvE gear why even have it? Better to remove it an simply raise the cost of the Conqueror gear (right hand side) if they want to keep the grind the same.

Because I don't enjoy crafting, and I don't like fighting hours against uninteresting, AI controlled NPCs for days and weeks to collect coiny stuff every day to buy pieces of gear... nor do I enjoy having to spend mountains of credits and time, to level up in some crafting stuff, which I am not interested in as well.

So, I get my gear from PvP, and that gear's reasonably good in performance, and I'm not in any real, major disadvantage from folks who get their gear from ops, flashies, or crafting... those people spend a lot of time and effort doing those stuff too.

...seems like plenty of reasons to get PvP gear for me.

The better comparison should be level 54 gear and PARTISAN gear. And partisan should still be better.

Exactly! It amazes me that some folks think this is OK.

 

Of course if 54 PvE gear == Partizan, I consider that a much less egregious bug than if 54 PvE gear is > partizan.

Then grab a calculator. Partisan and Conqueror are not bolstered in Warzones, should it be as simple as some subtraction, addition, and multiplying off the conqueror item; which I did the reverse of with the weapon example.