But Dooku is so much better.

 

1. Better actor

 

2.More dialogue

 

3.Professional duelist who fought in world war 2

 

He just has that awesome diabolical villain feeling to him. I think it would have been much better to have him as the central villain and take maul completely out of the picture. Have Qui-Gon die to him in whichever episode, because Jinn was his former padawan, I think it would give more emotion to it, and a reoccuring villain is what the prequels lacked.

 

Ever heard of Ray Park? The guy who acts AND does his own stunts? Acted Darth Maul and Snake Eyes from Rise of Cobra? Apparently not. Maul would obliterate Dooku. It would be nice to see Maul as a more in-depth character. Why? He's just a boss, and I wanna know what lead him to his greatness? When did his awesome legacy begin?

 

Reoccurring, you say? Notice how Sidious was in all the prequels.

 

Someone else told me that Dooku and Maul could work together, Dooku as the political genius, Maul as the "General Grievous" type ( guy who is feared by Republic and Jedi )

Darth Maul will be making a return in The Clone Wars soon.

 

Also, Maul was simply just a tool in the movies, and was far from being true Rule of Two Sith material. He might have cut it in the Old Republic, but he definitely didn't deserve to be part of Bane's Legacy.

 

Dooku on the other hand is awesome. Every time he fights in The Clone Wars it's awesome. it appears as though everything is so easy for him. He has no problem taking down his opponents. Dooku is a true Sith.

 

I agree with this dooku in the clone wars is much more then in the movies. That said, i think most characters are much more interesting in the clone wars then in the movies. The most screeming example is Anakin. I take Anakin in the clone wars everyday then Anakin in the movies.

Practicaly its like a whole diferent character, where you actualy understand him much more, a good VO is factor too.

Btw last episode was quite good, a showdown between anaking and dooku, in front of sidious, the smile of sidious when anakin was taking the upperhand on dooku was priceless.

I thin the problem with maul is not much of the character in it self but the lack of character in maul. If you know what i mean. maybe the clone wars will shine a new light and build a personality for him. It seems to be one of George Lucas goals by making the clone wars, to fill the missing gaps in the movies, not so much the story gaps because lets face it the star wars films are done and complete, a full circle has been done, but instead to fill the gap on the personality of the characters. Obviously its marketing and to make money. regardless is welcomed nonethe less. I enjoy the clone wars show, allthough at first i didnt give much credit, but over time the show had me suprised in several episodes. For the ones that think The clone wars is EU, it isnt. Its actualy T canon meaning is tevelision canon, but its actualy above The continuaty canon, meaning its practicaly as canon as the movies are. television canon and G canon walk on the same road. the only diference is one is cinema other is television. just felt the need to clarify this.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Spartanik

Maul was basically too stupid and too coarse to make a good sith, or a decent villain.

 

Dooku had plans of his own, lost the chess game, but such was the plot. The character had more depth, a personality, his light saber style was more interesting.

 

Plus having the man with the golden gun as your villain is always win.

 

As far as canon goes, these days it's really, unless it's from Lucasfilm, it doesn't exist, the books don't really count at all anymore.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Adzzy

While I agree that in the movies Dooku was a bit like, "who is this guy again?" in the clone wars series that's on at the moment he is quite threatening and powerful and very manipulative.

Maul was basically too stupid and too coarse to make a good sith, or a decent villain.

 

Dooku had plans of his own, lost the chess game, but such was the plot. The character had more depth, a personality, his light saber style was more interesting.

 

Plus having the man with the golden gun as your villain is always win.

 

As far as canon goes, these days it's really, unless it's from Lucasfilm, it doesn't exist, the books don't really count at all anymore.

 

Maul had no mind, he was a weapon with no attitude.

Maul had no mind, he was a weapon with no attitude.

 

Oh he had attitude. He was very prideful.

 

Sidious foreshadows Maul's demise in "Darth Plagius", basically saying that if he does not control his pride and arrogance he would be defeated.

 

Him toying with Obi-wan in the reactor shaft in Ep 1 definitely was his undoing.

Oh he had attitude. He was very prideful.

 

Sidious foreshadows Maul's demise in "Darth Plagius", basically saying that if he does not control his pride and arrogance he would be defeated.

 

Him toying with Obi-wan in the reactor shaft in Ep 1 definitely was his undoing.

 

Hmm, when I read Darth Plageuis, Maul always seemed robotic. But I guess there was a little prideful.

Personally I prefered Dooku, though i think they missed an opportuniy there.

 

The scene in AOTC when he is telling obiwan that the a sith lord controls all and his sympathy for the loss of Qui-Gon, had me thinking that we were getting this awesome conflicted character that may have strayed from the lightside but wanted to stop the sith really pushing his character into something interesting.

 

Yet, no grey areas allowed in Starwars movies and Dooku just is a bad guy. /sigh but he of course was already in with palps at that time.

Ever heard of Ray Park? The guy who acts AND does his own stunts? Acted Darth Maul and Snake Eyes from Rise of Cobra?

 

Didn't know that Christpher Lee did his own stunts through most of his acting career, and was a member of three stuntman unions.

Apparently not.

 

My thoughts exactly....

 

Maul would obliterate Dooku.

 

Maul's proficiency with a lightsaber might equal Dooku's but he's outclassed when it comes to the Force.

 

It would be nice to see Maul as a more in-depth character. Why? He's just a boss, and I wanna know what lead him to his greatness? When did his awesome legacy begin?

 

Look him up on wookieepedia, you'll find all the information you need on there, including that he came from Dathomir.

 

Reoccurring, you say? Notice how Sidious was in all the prequels.

 

Not the same thing. He was the man behind the curtain, and not the impressive and awe inspiring wizard that everyone was focussed on.

 

Someone else told me that Dooku and Maul could work together, Dooku as the political genius, Maul as the "General Grievous" type ( guy who is feared by Republic and Jedi )

 

Indeed they could, but notice how Maul's role wouldn't be any different than his role under Sidious?

Maul was a sword forged for only one purpose, and had limited capacity to think for himself, or beyond what he was told to do.

This is an interesting thead.

 

I loved Darth Maul so if he survived...

 

The Jedi would most likely focus their efforts on finding him. Knowing he was dead led the Jedi to ponder about the other Sith that supposedly exists. Either the master or apprentice.

 

I don't think the Confederacy of Independent Systems (Separatists) would have ever been founded. Or if it had it would've been at a slower pace. Maul has to be invisible. Dooku had vast wealth from his family lineage and he used those resources to start the Confederacy.

 

But at the same time I'm sure Syfo Dyas would have still predicted the impending doom of the Republic and went ahead with creating the Clone army. Maul would have taken him out like Dooku did, leaving the clone army at Palpatine's disposal in the future.

 

Palpatine's plan had to involve a war because that was the only sure fire way to extend his term as Chancellor. Plus it demonstrated how a firm authority had to be in place in order to prevent the constant corruption/secession/etc.

 

Without the wealth of Dooku, I'm not sure how Palpatine would position Maul or if he'd position him in the forefront of this war at all. After all the Jedi would then know that the head of the Separatists is a Sith lord so that wouldn't fly.

 

I'm guessing 2 different scenarios...

 

1) Palpatine goes for Dooku anyway and has him kill off Maul

2) Palpatine uses his current influence as Sidious on the Trade Federation and other organizations and has Maul push them behind the scenes. Palpatine would find an appropriate (most likely non-force user) candidate to lead this new faction, and the storyline would continue as usual only with Maul having to be constantly in hiding now that the Jedi know of his existence.

 

 

Thoughts?

Sadly no, Darth Maul was really at heart a shallow character.

 

But he perfectly illustrates one of the problems Lucas has at times as a filmaker. I refer to this as the Boba Fett principle.

 

George is an amazing visual artist. He creates scenes and images that are just stunning and cannot be compared to. Even today his original trilogy has never been equaled in its ability to take you to worlds long ago and far far away.

 

And that is part of the problem. He creates amazing visuals, but he doesn't always create the characterization, dialogue and back story to back them up. What makes this worse is the "Boba Fett principle". Where he then takes those stunning (but relatively minor, to him at least) images and uses them for marketing purposes.

 

Lucas has never understood fans love of or fascination with Boba Fett. To George Boba was just a throwaway character. One of the Bounty Hunters. I dude in a helmet. Nothing special and no great story. he failed to appreciate that after the original movie, in 1979, Boba Fett was the first glimpse of what was to come. He was the first little piece we were given as kids that there was more to the Star Wars story than just the one movie. That it wasn't over. (remember back then, except for James Bond there really was no such thing as a movie franchise. Sequels were rare and often cheesy). And then the magic contest. If you bought enough of the regular Star Wars action figures, and clipped the proof of purchase code from them and mailed them in, they would send you a cool figure of a never before seen character from the NEXT movie. It was like Willy Wonka come to life. He was a bounty hunter! He had armor and a targeting thingy on his helmet and a jet pack and rockets and a wrist blasters! And he was hunting Han Solo! Oh the stories we came up with for him. And then the second and third movies released. He walked around in 2 or 3 scenes. Had about three lines of dialogue, and died stupidly in an evil carnivorous hole in the ground. Ummm ***???

 

You would have though that GL might have learned from that experience. But then he went and did exactly the same thing with the prequels. After 20 years of waiting, the ever increasing rabid fan base finally got a glimpse of a new Star Wars in production. And what do they see. This amazing image. A red and black kabuki Sith Lord wielding a double bladed red lightsaber/staff. OMG was this image ever badaz. Once again we and our children spent countless hours imagining how cool this character was, based on those badaz images and action figures alone. And then the movie hit. He walked around in three or 4 scenes. Had three lines of spoken dialogue, no actual story, had one exceedingly wicked fight, and died stupidly in a giant hole in the ground. UMMM? Once again ***???

 

The problem is Lucas is like the worlds greatest comic book cover artist, except he paints with people and film. He sets up these amazing looking scenes, astonishing characters etc. And then move on to the next bit of color and landscape without ever filling in the details we are screaming for. This isn't always a bad thing. Lucas when playing to his strengths of imagery is one of the truest masters of his art. It's when he attempts to play to his weaknesses or fails to recognize them that things fall apart (see romantic dialogue, Anakin v Padme). Unfortunately George seems to often has some personal blind spots regarding his own weak areas (casting small children, sorry GL but only Spielberg even manages to make it work) and often his greatest strengths (just the images of Boba Fett and Darth Maul stirred such strong fan reaction that he should have opted to better use them. He doesn't always recognize when he makes something incredible.) To be fair in this regard he is probably the same as the rest of us.

 

At least there are some signs that Lucas is at long last starting to learn to recognize some of this. The way he has recently played around with some of the images of the characters in the Clone Wars series, and even essentially brought back a "Darth Maul" character with a much more complicated and compelling backstory in the form of Savage Oppress is hopeful.

 

Could not have said it better my friend. You hit the nail right on the head with that.

I think it would've he was an impressive character. maybe not the prime antagonist, but a character who was still there.

I'd like to point one thing out in regards to TCW.

 

GL's daughter was the sole creator of Savage Oppress. Look it up. She created everything about the character. I also believe Maul was her favorite character from the Prequals, but don't quote me on that because I have no idea. I saw an interview where she was talking about this character she had created. I believe it was at the 2010 or 2011 comic con, she was talking to one of the G4 anchors, either Adam Sessler or Morgan about it.

 

I think it's cool she created that character, because there was quite a bit of story about him. How he was created is one of the most messed up things I've seen in a cartoon like that. It's like the Manchurian Candidate, but made even more nightmarish because Night Sisters did it. Was awesome to watch the entire process how he was made into Savage.

 

Maul is one of my favorite characters, but alas he is behind Vader, because Vader is my favorite. You have to realize, all Sith are tools when used by a higher power. All through Swtor, your Sith character is a tool for a supposed much more stronger master. It is only until you reach your utmost potential through betrayal that you are no longer a tool, because you then are able to end your masters plan in one form or another, and are made stronger because of the hatred and other emotions involved.

 

Darth Maul would have, and did, become much more powerful after cleaning the floor with Qui-Gon. In my opinion, Qui-Gon had no chance to beat Maul because Maul's Passion and hatred for the two of them (Qui-gon and Obi-Wan) was so strong that the brief pause did nothing to stem that hate and rage. The only thing that ended Maul, was Maul himself when he let his passion and hatred slip when he thought he had Obi Wan beat. He got cocky and quite simply, dropped the ball in an immense lax of judgement. That is the downfall of all Sith, they drop the ball in a sense, because they get way too over confident and think they've won when they are only in the lead with a quarter left to play.

 

I do agree with some others that have posted, in that Maul did not have the power or strength to go on from where he ended up, simply because he was not powerful enough for Sidious. Sidious needed someone more powerful and a lot more driven, hence Dooku. Dooku, in my eyes, had the drive and power that Sidious needed at that time, because he simply had no one else more powerful. The kid was no where near ready for what he needed, which is why he watched his progress very closely. Dooku was a great character for the time, a great stop gap for Sidious. Those two got quite a lot done, but when Dooku's usefulness was up, he was ended.

 

If you go through the Sith Warrior's story, you experience much the same, except a certain someone miscalculates exactly who is stronger, and does a boo boo that he later regrets, much to his embarrassment. I won't spoil anything, but it's a very fitting ending, and you certainly feel ****** at the end of it.

 

At any rate, that's my opinion. Maul and Dooku were both great characters, in my opinion. I saw more in them than even Lucas did, and I saw more and imagined more in them from the brief moments they were in action than even Lucas saw. I think a lot of us did, and a lot of us didn't. That's the great thing about stories, you form your own prospective based on what the writer has written for you, so that your imagination can do the rest. GL did that pretty well, but there is so much more he could have done to make the 6 movies even better than they were. 4-6 were the best, and will always remain so, at least for me.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Vhyle
Keyboard is a P.O.S which doesn't help typed grammer.

The mind really start wander when you think of all that could have been done story wise in the prequels. I would like to have seen Maul in EP II as well, but then both EP I and II would have had to have been told a different way from a timeline perspective. The gap that exists between I and II is just too big to make Maul work I think. It's about 10 years I think. I think that was a huge mistake. I would have made Anakin much older in the first movie, like in his early teens. EP I to me has always felt like it was meant to be a set up piece. A movie that tells the audience what's going on on a larger scale in this universe. The discovery of Anakin is just kind of background. I always felt that was unnecessary and that EP I was just done....wrong, I guess. I would have started with Anakin being older, seeing some of his early training etc. so that we got a chance to see some of why he turns later.

 

What that has to do with Maul is that would have allowed I and II to occurr closer together chronologically. Maybe a 3-5 year gap between EP I and II instead. That would allow an easier carry over for Maul. I think you would then keep EP II largly the same but just substitue Maul for Dooku. A lightsaber dual at the end with Maul instead of Dooku would have been far better.

He should have survived Episode 1 and came back.

 

He did and does.

 

http://io9.com/5849212/star-wars-the-clone-wars-will-bring-darth-maul-back-from-the-dead

 

Careful what you wish for. GL may grant it in splendid, mind-and-dream-crushing fashion.

He did and does.

 

http://io9.com/5849212/star-wars-the-clone-wars-will-bring-darth-maul-back-from-the-dead

 

Careful what you wish for. GL may grant it in splendid, mind-and-dream-crushing fashion.

 

No, no, no, no, no, no, NO!. I wish Maul had lived as much as the next guy and we had gotten to see more of him. But I can not stand it when an IP comes up with some inconceivable way of bringing someone back from the dead just because it's a popular character. CUT IN HALF is dead folks. What are they gonna say? 'Well it's not like he as cut in half the long way.'? You aint coming back from that. Lucas can re-do episode I all over so Maul doesn't die at the end if he wants, but no resurecting cut in half people. That's where I draw the line.

Edited February 16, 2012 by LordHartigan

A mistake I think we are making here is to assume that Maul should have replaced Dooku when in actuality he should have replaced grievous. Dooku should have been established as a former Jedi/ rich guy/ bad guy in EP1 as appearing to be the true master in an already formed CIS and Maul as his apprentice but it's revealed later that maul is just an assassin and dooku serves Sidious. EP1 goes on as is (for better or worse!) BUT MAUL DOES NOT DIE! Instead he is recovered by Dooku and Sidious and turned into a robot like thing AKA grevious and then becomes the bruiser in EP2 and 3. And make it seem that the technology is the prototype for what will be used to construct Vader (coughing vs iconic breathing).

 

This

-Gives Maul more character, eliminates grevious stupidity and explains ife support tech

-more develops dooku

-gives consistent developed villains.