I understand that Yoda or Obi-Wan never told Luke that love and passion lead to the dark side, but can someone still explain to me how Luke could have gotten married, being the GRAND MASTER? Did it not dawn on him that (as far as I know) none of the Jedi in the past managed to fall in love, stay in love and not turn to the dark side? (One seemingly obvious example to him would have been his father.)

The only Jedi I can think of before Luke's time that loved and didn't turn to the dark side was Kento Marek, and he became a Grey Jedi as far as I know, and Obi-Wan, though he never pursued his love and stayed fully committed to the Jedi.

So, can anyone shed some insight on this?

Lots of Jedi have fallen in love, married and had children over the long history of the order. Revan and Bastila for example. Yoda and Obi-Wan came from a time when the Jedi held so tightly to their rules that they weren't flexible. After Order Sixty Six they realized that this was one of the problems with the old Order. Luke was not so strict and allowed his Jedi to have relationships. It has proved successful so far.

By the way, Ki-Adi Mundi was also married and did not fall to the darkside. Also, Luke was not the Grand Master when he married Mara. He did not take that title until well after the Yuzhaan ving war, around...35 ABY I think. give or take a couple years. I'll have to go look that up now lol.

Also Kento wasn't a grey jedi, he was a jedi knight...well exile jedi knight.

Who cares.

Who cares.

Plenty of people care.

Lots of Jedi have fallen in love, married and had children over the long history of the order. Revan and Bastila for example. Yoda and Obi-Wan came from a time when the Jedi held so tightly to their rules that they weren't flexible. After Order Sixty Six they realized that this was one of the problems with the old Order. Luke was not so strict and allowed his Jedi to have relationships. It has proved successful so far.

 

By the way, Ki-Adi Mundi was also married and did not fall to the darkside. Also, Luke was not the Grand Master when he married Mara. He did not take that title until well after the Yuzhaan ving war, around...35 ABY I think. give or take a couple years. I'll have to go look that up now lol.

Awesome. Thanks for the answer. As I'm sure you noticed I don't know much about EU except for what goes on in the games and what I read on Wookie sometimes. I just saw that Luke had a wife in an article on Wookiepedia and came here to ask (probably could have gotten my answer there now that I think of it haha)

I understand that Yoda or Obi-Wan never told Luke that love and passion lead to the dark side, but can someone still explain to me how Luke could have gotten married, being the GRAND MASTER? Did it not dawn on him that (as far as I know) none of the Jedi in the past managed to fall in love, stay in love and not turn to the dark side? (One seemingly obvious example to him would have been his father.)

 

The only Jedi I can think of before Luke's time that loved and didn't turn to the dark side was Kento Marek, and he became a Grey Jedi as far as I know, and Obi-Wan, though he never pursued his love and stayed fully committed to the Jedi.

 

So, can anyone shed some insight on this?

Ok, Luke basically learned all he could from the old holocrons he and Tionne found and decided that being a "love nazi" was not a good way to go. He therefore decided that should any of his Jedi Order fall because of a bad relationship or because some bad guys went and killed their loved ones, he would deal with each case as it occurred. And tbh, that makes a helluvalot more sense than the "NO NOOKIE FOR YOU!" philosophy of previous Jedi Councils.

lol also leia however short she was a jedi in training married han and never fell into it either lol. they break alot of rules in eu but i still love it lol.

Actually, there were no "rules" to break at that time, since the Jedi Order was still non-existent after the prequels. Also, as pointed out by a previous poster here, Obi-Wan and Yoda never told Luke about the "No marriage or nookie" rules, so that is in keeping with continuity.

Lots of Jedi have fallen in love, married and had children over the long history of the order. Revan and Bastila for example. Yoda and Obi-Wan came from a time when the Jedi held so tightly to their rules that they weren't flexible. After Order Sixty Six they realized that this was one of the problems with the old Order. Luke was not so strict and allowed his Jedi to have relationships. It has proved successful so far.

 

By the way, Ki-Adi Mundi was also married and did not fall to the darkside. Also, Luke was not the Grand Master when he married Mara. He did not take that title until well after the Yuzhaan ving war, around...35 ABY I think. give or take a couple years. I'll have to go look that up now lol.

These are not good examples.

1st: The Jedi Council already resented Revan and when the Republic put him on their council they resented even more. Because he broke allot of Jedi rules.

2nd: Ki-Adi Mundi was in love because his race was endangered. So the Jedi allowed that.

I understand that Yoda or Obi-Wan never told Luke that love and passion lead to the dark side, but can someone still explain to me how Luke could have gotten married, being the GRAND MASTER? Did it not dawn on him that (as far as I know) none of the Jedi in the past managed to fall in love, stay in love and not turn to the dark side? (One seemingly obvious example to him would have been his father.)

 

The only Jedi I can think of before Luke's time that loved and didn't turn to the dark side was Kento Marek, and he became a Grey Jedi as far as I know, and Obi-Wan, though he never pursued his love and stayed fully committed to the Jedi.

 

So, can anyone shed some insight on this?

Well for starters, what Luke pulled is called "pulling a Bindo". Second, Luke was leading his jedi order in a new direction, and I think one way of showing that was by marrying Mara. Thirdly Ki-Adi-Mundi was married, just to let you know...

Also, in case you've forgotten, Obi-wan told look that his feelings (as a brother, you pervert ) for Leia, "did him credit." Basically, by the time of the original trilogy, Yoda and Obi-wan had had a lot of time to sit around and think about what went wrong, and realized that caring about people didn't actually lead to the dark side (The Revenge of the Sith novelization actually talks about how Yoda began to realize just how much the Jedi had screwed up while he was dueling Palpatine). If anything, it's more of a selfish desire that leads to the dark side, a possessiveness and refusal to accept things.

Hey now. He didn't KNOW she was his sister when she slipped him some tongue on Hoth. He just enjoyed the moment and went to his bunk later. And by the time he figured it out 2 years later, he'd pretty much gotten over it. Although, the looks on Mark Hamill's face during that scene on Dagobah were priceless!

Not to mention ol' George Lucas sitting back laughing his *** off at the collective "EWWWWWW" from pretty much everyone who watched that scene and remembered the kiss on Hoth.

Actually, there were no "rules" to break at that time, since the Jedi Order was still non-existent after the prequels. Also, as pointed out by a previous poster here, Obi-Wan and Yoda never told Luke about the "No marriage or nookie" rules, so that is in keeping with continuity.

Also, when Luke got married it was BEFORE the Prequels. In the '90s EU, with the old Jedi and Clone Wars and basically everything from the eventual prequel-era was off-limits, the in-universe explanation for Luke's 'ignorance' of rules that hadn't even been invented yet was that Palpatine had buried or destroyed as much evidence & history of the Jedi Order as he could. So Luke basically was making it up as he went along, finding the occasional holocron or file about them, learning what he could from survivors like Kam Solusar, etc.

But, ultimately, the Prequel rules don't apply. It took decades to change their minds about much of it, but Yoda & Obi-Wan realized they did a lot of things wrong; it was hard to change their minds about EVERYTHING (like the notion that you can be saved from the dark side after you've fallen, but their warnings weren't so much against Luke trying to turn Vader back as warnings so Luke wouldn't fall, himself!), but they didn't feel the need to drive home the attachment/relationship teachings, or the whole 'there is NO emotion' that so many people here latch onto... especially since they were mostly just prepping Luke as a weapon against the Sith.

Yoda knew emotion was okay. Probably most Jedi in the PT did, it's just fan interpretation that emotion was forbidden because the Code says "no emotion". As Yoda's reaction to seeing Padme alive at the start of AOTC and his teachings to Luke in ESB indicate, it's not emotion that's bad, it's acting out of emotion with the Force. The Force is best used when calm, at peace, etc... and emotions, against the Sith, could be used against the Jedi. That's why Ben told Luke to bury his feelings, though he didn't condemn him for having them.

I understand that Yoda or Obi-Wan never told Luke that love and passion lead to the dark side, but can someone still explain to me how Luke could have gotten married, being the GRAND MASTER? Did it not dawn on him that (as far as I know) none of the Jedi in the past managed to fall in love, stay in love and not turn to the dark side? (One seemingly obvious example to him would have been his father.)

 

The only Jedi I can think of before Luke's time that loved and didn't turn to the dark side was Kento Marek, and he became a Grey Jedi as far as I know, and Obi-Wan, though he never pursued his love and stayed fully committed to the Jedi.

 

So, can anyone shed some insight on this?

Jedi population really low. Time for the Jedi to reproduce, by reproducing this made strong force sensitive blood lines.

Luke was not so strict and allowed his Jedi to have relationships. It has proved successful so far.

 

Although I agree with everything you said, just wanted to point out that allowing them to marry and produce offspring has had it's downsides. Examples: Darth Cadeus and his fall to the darkside, Valin Horn and Jysella Horn being effected by Abeloth and causing their father to become pretty useless (understandable of course but demonstrates his attachment to them effecting his duties as a Council member) Tahiri and her love for Anakin causing her all kinds of issues, Luke's inability to go after Cadeus because of it's potential to turn him to the darkside due to events of Sacrifice ect.

Like I said I agree with most of what you said but yeah there's been a few good examples of the problems attachment can cause Jedi in the EU.

Although I agree with everything you said, just wanted to point out that allowing them to marry and produce offspring has had it's downsides. Examples: Darth Cadeus and his fall to the darkside, Valin Horn and Jysella Horn being effected by Abeloth and causing their father to become pretty useless (understandable of course but demonstrates his attachment to them effecting his duties as a Council member) Tahiri and her love for Anakin causing her all kinds of issues, Luke's inability to go after Cadeus because of it's potential to turn him to the darkside due to events of Sacrifice ect.

 

Like I said I agree with most of what you said but yeah there's been a few good examples of the problems attachment can cause Jedi in the EU.

Which is why everyone else was there to help pick up the slack for those who were adversely affected by those events. Luke's Jedi Order is more of an extended family than previous Orders were. They all look out for each other as much as possible, and they pick up the slack whenever they can. There seems to be a loyalty there that wasn't there in the Prequel Order, or the Old Republic eras in KotOR and TOR.

In the old Order, when a Jedi in a relationship fell to the Dark Side, in most cases it wasn't because that loved one died, it was because they had already started down that path long before. Keeping it a secret to avoid the Masters finding out, telling all the lies and stories, etc. Deciet is the way of the Sith and the Dark Side, so its no wonder that a Jedi would easily fall to the Dark Side after getting into a relationship.

That being said, there were some, as previously mentioned that did it and succeeded without sucumbing. Corran Horn's father was a Jedi and died without falling to the Dark Side,. Just had to throw that example out there along with other examples already given.

Luke saw that you couldn't control the way you felt about someone, so rather than force a Jedi to conceal those feelings, he chose to allow it, so that it would be open, and then those Jedi who did have issues would have the support of all Jedi, and not have to suffer their pain on their own. A much wiser path in my opinion.

In the old Order, when a Jedi in a relationship fell to the Dark Side, in most cases it wasn't because that loved one died, it was because they had already started down that path long before. Keeping it a secret to avoid the Masters finding out, telling all the lies and stories, etc. Deciet is the way of the Sith and the Dark Side, so its no wonder that a Jedi would easily fall to the Dark Side after getting into a relationship.

 

That being said, there were some, as previously mentioned that did it and succeeded without sucumbing. Corran Horn's father was a Jedi and died without falling to the Dark Side,. Just had to throw that example out there along with other examples already given.

 

Luke saw that you couldn't control the way you felt about someone, so rather than force a Jedi to conceal those feelings, he chose to allow it, so that it would be open, and then those Jedi who did have issues would have the support of all Jedi, and not have to suffer their pain on their own. A much wiser path in my opinion.

Which brings up, once again, my point from other discussions on this topic. I believe the Jedi teachings and ban on marriage/attachments also contributed to the problems with Jedi IN attached relationships falling to the Dark Side. In fact, I'm convinced of it in Anakin's case. If not for that rule, he most likely wouldn't have had much of a problem telling the Council about his visions of Padme's death. Instead of seeing them as supportive, he only saw them as restrictive. And on that point, I am in full agreement with Anakin. *watches as some may die of shock* >.>

<.<

No, you're right... the Jedi WERE too restrictive like that. Yoda was starting to realize it, and I think he had an idea of what--or whom--Anakin was talking about when Anakin brought up the dreams. Yoda may have felt that confronting Anakin with the knowledge or suspicion that Anakin had a thing for Padme would cause Anakin--who has proven volatile & reckless in the past--to close himself off from the other Jedi, to get defensive and even MORE secretive and potentially act more rashly...which he did anyway. Yoda made a mistake in doing that, and in merely counseling the rote "let go of attachments" teachings of the post-Ruusan Jedi.

Luke's method worked a lot better, but of course that's because the EU writers WANTED his method to work well, and Lucas WANTED the Prequel Jedi to be dogmatic monastic jerks.

No, you're right... the Jedi WERE too restrictive like that. Yoda was starting to realize it, and I think he had an idea of what--or whom--Anakin was talking about when Anakin brought up the dreams. Yoda may have felt that confronting Anakin with the knowledge or suspicion that Anakin had a thing for Padme would cause Anakin--who has proven volatile & reckless in the past--to close himself off from the other Jedi, to get defensive and even MORE secretive and potentially act more rashly...which he did anyway. Yoda made a mistake in doing that, and in merely counseling the rote "let go of attachments" teachings of the post-Ruusan Jedi.

 

Luke's method worked a lot better, but of course that's because the EU writers WANTED his method to work well, and Lucas WANTED the Prequel Jedi to be dogmatic monastic jerks.

Which is why he had them rewrite the Jedi Code to include "There is NO" instead of "yet". Makes sense. I've been reading the Force Storm series and I love the Je'Daii Oath/Code. Best one yet, even if they have "There is no" in it.

Well for starters, what Luke pulled is called "pulling a Bindo". Second, Luke was leading his jedi order in a new direction, and I think one way of showing that was by marrying Mara. Thirdly Ki-Adi-Mundi was married, just to let you know...

Jolee Bindo is my hero

"The Jedi, with their damnable sense of over-caution, would tell you love is something to avoid, Thankfully anyone who's even partially alive knows that's not true. Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled, but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love, that's what they should teach you to beware, but love itself will save, not condemn you."

"Love causes pain certainly, inevitably love is going to lead to as much sorrow and regret as it does joy, I suppose there are perfect eternal loves out there...but I haven't seen any. And how you deal with the bad part of love is what determines your character, what determines the dark side's hold over you."

Jolee Bindo is my hero

 

"The Jedi, with their damnable sense of over-caution, would tell you love is something to avoid, Thankfully anyone who's even partially alive knows that's not true. Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled, but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love, that's what they should teach you to beware, but love itself will save, not condemn you."

"Love causes pain certainly, inevitably love is going to lead to as much sorrow and regret as it does joy, I suppose there are perfect eternal loves out there...but I haven't seen any. And how you deal with the bad part of love is what determines your character, what determines the dark side's hold over you."

 

For a grouchy old man, Jolee had a lot of wisdom to impart.