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Stealth Detection greater than standard agro range.


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Can anyone explain this mechanic to me please.

 

Certain enemies have an ability that targets a stealthed player that is outside of normal unstealthed pull distance.

 

While I can appreciate that its to prevent stealth for some reason what is the mechanic exactly and are you ment to be able deploy your stealth required crowd control.

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My theory on this bug is that when they implemented stealth detection in the game, they made the "strength" factor of a mob's ability to see stealth directly proportional to the distance they can detect a player. Bosses, as such would most likely have some of the highest stealth detection around so that makes sense given the theory.

 

As for Ilum, this is possible, however unlikely that they intended many mobs there to be "stealth detectors". Voila, their stealth detection is essentially a second form of aggro range, and when they "see" you through stealth it aggros like it normally would.

 

That's my theory at least...

 

The only way to test this would be to test the range at which you are being detected, then try using Blackout to increase the level of your stealth and see if the "range" at which you are detected is reduced. If this proves to be true, then their stealth "strength" is directly proportional to the range at which they detect stealth, even if this range goes beyond their normal aggro range.

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  • 11 months later...

I have a 50 Shadow and a 29 Assassin, and I have NEVER had a stealth problem. Granted my Shadow is a tank, but I've done all FPs up to Cad. with my Assassin with NO detection problems. Could be the tree. Could be the way I'm doing it. IDK. I know that in T5 there are TWO spots you have to unstealth and also a spot or two in Maelstorm, other than that ... I have no problem putting out high dps on my assassin even when I don't go in steathing.

 

Also ... I've read all the threads so far about this ... One question: WHY DPS Operatives?! They are only great in pvp ... in pve they don't do so well. (Honestly, I don't mind them, but I've never heard of a raiding guild that runs with a DPS Operative ... I hope someone proves me wrong but I've only ever heard very very bad stuff about them.)

 

But I doubt Bioware will fix this ... Look at all the other stuff they haven't touched. Don't mind if they fix it, but please don't hold your breath.

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I think the stealth detection is intended, and a way to have the stealth based chars change mechanics, thus making certain encounters more entertaining.

 

For the pve based operatives, I always think the problem is not in the dps generation itself, but that they do not have a fast travel method to get behind target, thus wasting too much time by just (in combat speed) walking until getting behind target. In mobs like the robot in EV, that can easily be like 5 secs of ZERO DPS.

 

Like I said before they need a kind of teleport, or like some builds in TSW, a kind of jumping charge ASAP.

Edited by malangus
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  • 2 weeks later...
Incredibly obnoxious. I don't think a lot of people understand the issue, though. It's retarded that everyone in the Op group can skip the mob undetected without Stealth and then you're Stealthed and the mob sees you when you're further away from them than the rest of the Op that is unstealthed... how does that make any logical sense whatsoever? Yes, fix this. You nerfed DPS Operatives into the ground and they do the least DPS by far now as well as Sin DPS being one of the lowest DPS classes in the game too (bottom 3), least you can do is fix an obvious broken mechanic concerning Stealth for them. Edited by Eyesmindassassin
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Incredibly obnoxious. I don't think a lot of people understand the issue, though. It's retarded that everyone in the Op group can skip the mob undetected without Stealth and then you're Stealthed and the mob sees you when you're further away from them than the rest of the Op that is unstealthed... how does that make any logical sense whatsoever? Yes, fix this. You nerfed DPS Operatives into the ground and they do the least DPS by far now as well as Sin DPS being one of the lowest DPS classes in the game too (bottom 3), least you can do is fix an obvious broken mechanic concerning Stealth for them.

 

From a RP point of view, this "issue" isn't really one and make sense. Some people could be able to sense to use of the Force further than their eyes are seeing.

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From a RP point of view, this "issue" isn't really one and make sense. Some people could be able to sense to use of the Force further than their eyes are seeing.

 

No, it makes less than 0 sense. So you are saying from an RP perspective it makes more sense that a mob should ignore a guy standing 20m away from him pointing an assault cannon at him and attack the guy in stealth standing 25m away and not looking at him. Because that's what happens and what the real issue is. I used to spend alot of time running around with a friend who played a scrapper and it happened all the time where they were stealthed, I wasn't, I was closer to the mob than they were and it would aggro on them and pop them out of stealth. We spent some time experimenting with it to confirm it and there are several mobs in this game that have an aggro radius of approx 20m for normal chars and 25m+ for stealthed chars. Happens on Ilum especially for solo content and in most HM FPs and Ops as well, which puts Scoundrel and Ops DPS at a significant disadvantage due to their lack of a gap closer, which is what stealth is supposed to give them, but doesn't because of this.

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My scoundrel is pretty low level, but any time I've had this happen it's been preceded by a few seconds of a bright orange icon on my character, as though I was about to take an orbital strike or something.

 

If your group can move around unnoticed, don't set off the zone's stealth detection alarm.

 

Th Reason for this is, probably, to prevent people with stealth and force speed or rocket boost from being able to close on the mob unnoticed. The point isn't to prevent skipping, it's to stop something stealth dependent from being used/abused.

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No, it makes less than 0 sense. So you are saying from an RP perspective it makes more sense that a mob should ignore a guy standing 20m away from him pointing an assault cannon at him and attack the guy in stealth standing 25m away and not looking at him. Because that's what happens and what the real issue is. I used to spend alot of time running around with a friend who played a scrapper and it happened all the time where they were stealthed, I wasn't, I was closer to the mob than they were and it would aggro on them and pop them out of stealth. We spent some time experimenting with it to confirm it and there are several mobs in this game that have an aggro radius of approx 20m for normal chars and 25m+ for stealthed chars. Happens on Ilum especially for solo content and in most HM FPs and Ops as well, which puts Scoundrel and Ops DPS at a significant disadvantage due to their lack of a gap closer, which is what stealth is supposed to give them, but doesn't because of this.

 

Yes, it makes sense. This "feature" is used in many stories, book, movies or animes. The characters can sense the ennemy before seeing him. Against some ennemies, being stealth is like waving a big sign with big lights saying "EH, I'M HERE".

 

But I'll give you a wonderful example, from books/movies : when Frodo uses the Ring, Sauron (and any Nazgul) EXACTLY knows where Frodo is. When he doesn't, they barely see him in front of them. If you ask for more examples, I'll be happy to produce them ;)

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Didn't know that we were playing LOTR, thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

Frodo isn't a playable character in LOTRO, try again. You rather look stupid than admitting you are wrong :)

I won't talk about the Vornskr or even the Voxyns, I give you a chance to discover things about Star Wars :) I just used an exemple in many books about being stealth can be more visible for someone than poiting a gun ay them at 20m.

Edited by Hovergame
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I think the stealth detection is intended

 

It's WAI, but not for the reason you think it is. It's included to prevent stealthers from skipping and/or dancing around bosses like they have been apt to do in *every* other MMO. It's also not as complex and "stealth is worse than non-stealth" as most of the people posting here make it out to be: when you get in range of the boss, you get the "red reticule of warning" on your face which provides you with ~5 seconds to either run away or fight the boss. If you can't be arsed to pay attention or make a decision that quickly, well, maybe a stealth class isn't for you. If you start a boss fight because everyone else was out of stealth and you were not, try dropping stealth before passing by bosses.

 

It's obviously not a bug since there's an explicit mechanic for it so, rather than complaining about it because "omg, I can't just run around in stealth all the time and dance next to bosses while doing so" realize that, just *maybe*, you're doing it wrong and maybe you should think about doing it right.

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Stealth in this game is different than in others as well as a bit buggy (mostly due to issues with client / server sync), though it is still a decent ability.

 

And while I don't mind having mobs that can detect stealth, I do think the mechanic of such mobs auto engaging from twice the normal agro range is dumb.

 

Even if this is the case, there should be a range at which the warning is present but which the mob won't engage.

 

As it is now, you can get close enough to the mob before the warning goes off where it will be impossible to get out of range before the mob engages (though you can sometimes drop stealth to avoid detection depending on how close you got to the mob before the warning).

 

However I'd much rather see them work to improve stealth so the following no longer occurs:

 

Situation A:

 

Passing a mob or pack of mobs while in stealth, only to have a mob in the pack 'spot' the player and engage in combat after the player has moved many meters and multiple packs away rather than while the player is near the mob.

 

Situation B:

 

A random mob agros a companion and starts following and attacking them, yet does not start combat with the player nor drop the player and companion from stealth.

 

Situation C:

 

Use the in-combat exit to stealth ability, enter stealth and end actual combat (no mobs following / shooting) but the game still considers the player as in combat and unable to use any OOC abilities.

Edited by DawnAskham
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Frodo isn't a playable character in LOTRO, try again. You rather look stupid than admitting you are wrong :)

I won't talk about the Vornskr or even the Voxyns, I give you a chance to discover things about Star Wars :) I just used an exemple in many books about being stealth can be more visible for someone than poiting a gun ay them at 20m.

 

<-< >-> v_____v

 

You serious man? You're comparing apples to oranges. It makes zero sense and he isn't making himself look stupid, you are. If someone is in front of you with a gun and someone is in stealth ten feet behind them while unarmed, who would you think would gain agro first or be noticed for that matter? The fact you quoted LOTR, a Tolkien series to "Star Wars", a Lucus film production is complete asinine. Just because another series did it has absolutely no baring on this franchise.

Edited by mastirkal
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  • 3 weeks later...
Is there a link to an official comment that this is working as intended? If not then this is just another bug to add to the ever going list of frustrating issues with game mechanics. Stealth detection beyond the range of normal aggro range is wrong. If they wanted to deter people from stealthing past content perhaps they should have the NPC's have increased stealth detection within the area that they would normally aggro someone. My thought is that they tried to do just that and ended up with broken detection. :(
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Is there a link to an official comment that this is working as intended? If not then this is just another bug to add to the ever going list of frustrating issues with game mechanics. Stealth detection beyond the range of normal aggro range is wrong. If they wanted to deter people from stealthing past content perhaps they should have the NPC's have increased stealth detection within the area that they would normally aggro someone. My thought is that they tried to do just that and ended up with broken detection. :(

 

1+

5 chars

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I forgot to answer :)

 

There are some entities in the Expanded star Wars universe who can detetct force users before seeing them.

Epic Fail, try again.

Yeah, I'm certain bog-standard Imperial soldiers belong to that group of entities. Surely it also makes sense that they can also detect a scoundrel, a class that doesn't use force? And why don't they attack non-stealthed force users at the same range?

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I forgot to answer :)

 

There are some entities in the Expanded star Wars universe who can detetct force users before seeing them.

Epic Fail, try again.

 

You didn't forget. I reported it and it was deleted just like your last two posts. You are rude and you use the same fallacy. It doesn't make sense from a mechanical stand point and it doesn't make sense that you would see a stealthed character better than someone in plain sight. the Agro range should be exactly the same, the fact that it is bigger is ridiculous.

Edited by mastirkal
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You didn't forget. I reported it and it was deleted just like your last two posts. You are rude and you use the same fallacy. It doesn't make sense from a mechanical stand point and it doesn't make sense that you would see a stealthed character better than someone in plain sight. the Agro range should be exactly the same, the fact that it is bigger is ridiculous.

 

Ok. since you are so happy, CONGRATULATIONS ! GG MAN, YOU ARE SO GREAT :)

If, to you, it doesn't make sense, it just shows that you DON'T UNDERSTAND. Nothing more, nothing else and yes, to me it makes sense that some rare individuals, have a better "perception" of stealth.

 

Again, a character in plain sight ---> agro. If not, you are "too far" and the mob doesn't SEE you. Yes, even if you are at 5m, with a gun, dancing and chatting with your team, he doesn't see you. The agro in this situation is related to VISION. But once you are stealthed, the agro range isn't related to vision anymore, and why on Earth should it be the same ? Do you SEE and EAR at the same distance ? Do you smell things at the same distance ?

 

This will be my last post in this thread, I'm feeling like it I was trying to explain something to a 4 year old child shouting "NO YOU ARE WRONG".

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Ok. since you are so happy, CONGRATULATIONS ! GG MAN, YOU ARE SO GREAT :)

If, to you, it doesn't make sense, it just shows that you DON'T UNDERSTAND. Nothing more, nothing else and yes, to me it makes sense that some rare individuals, have a better "perception" of stealth.

 

Again, a character in plain sight ---> agro. If not, you are "too far" and the mob doesn't SEE you. Yes, even if you are at 5m, with a gun, dancing and chatting with your team, he doesn't see you. The agro in this situation is related to VISION. But once you are stealthed, the agro range isn't related to vision anymore, and why on Earth should it be the same ? Do you SEE and EAR at the same distance ? Do you smell things at the same distance ?

 

This will be my last post in this thread, I'm feeling like it I was trying to explain something to a 4 year old child shouting "NO YOU ARE WRONG".

 

Probably because to 90+% of the MMORPG population you are wrong. As a stealther I am not supposed to be able to use one of my primary skills in my class missions because we don't want people stealthing by bosses/trash in other content :rak_02:

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