Feedback, you say?

 

I understand that the Cartel Market and the F2P model are a work-in-progress and something of an experiment for BW/EA. Its a new model, and not a path you thought you'd be walking a year ago. I get that.

 

But, I'm increasingly convinced you are over-ambitiously monetising everything, just to see what the market will bear. The Market itself is a collection of largely cosmetic fluff (except for the level 7 ship parts, about which many people have already dropped their collective bundle on other threads), and boosts which are cheap and easy to get on the GTN, if one must.

 

And now we can't even save our subscriber coins and pay for the Makeb content with them? What's the point of them, then? Cartel Coins seem to have damned little value for subscribers, all in all, unless they want a complete selection of vanity items. When I log on to this game, I want Rollicking Adventure and Role-playing, not A Chance for Better Trousers.

 

Sell server transfers, or name changes, or appearance changes, or --down the track, even, when you've wrung as much money as you can from the early adopters, since that seems to be the way you are determined to go-- content. Something that tells us that our custom, as well as our money, is valued.

 

They are a bunch of inbred and overpaid monkeys whose only intelligent thought revolves around quick cash. Not even "a year from now" holds any interest to them, only "next week" or "next month". That is the range of their capabilities and it doesn't look like it's gonna change soon.

So any kind of feedback that doesn't revolve around new things to sell on CM, is gonna get ignored.

obviously they are listening to players' behaviour.

 

since so many people spent money to buy their vanity orange gear not available in game for 1200 CC, they put in yesterday's patch the only unhooded robe for jedis at 1440 CC, 20% more expensive.

 

And people will buy it.

 

Expect more new models for even more CC.

That's feedback for the Bioscrooge fanboys.

Ok, EA I'll bite. I applaud the decision to increase the bars from 2 to 4. I am deeply disappointed with the introduction of gambling packs, level 7 starship upgrades, and the fact that we can't use Cartel Coins for content updates like Makeb.

 

Currently the F2P stance appears to be 'milk the players as much as possible for whatever suckers will fall for' along with not actually sticking with 'subscribers get everything'. This is not a good precedent to set. This isn't Apple with a captive market lured by brand - this is a struggling MMO whose players vary from long-term invested to whimsical. If TOR is to grow as an MMO & community, rather than a convenient set of wallets to be gouged, EA needs to actually start treating us like customers, as Bioware used to back when this game was launched (yes, you really did). That is a two-way relationship, not one-way.

 

Please demonstrate the same customer loyalty that we have given you, rather than making us feel misguided in doing so. Back at launch, it felt like Bioware (as was) understood they were presenting a long term MMO for years of play, and EA didn't - EA's entire attitude was 'we're selling another Battlefield until next year, right?'. If you stop looking for short-term gains for a minute, and realise that MMOs are supposed to be long-term investments, we might get the game onto the right track.

 

Things I wanted to appear in the CM that aren't there are actual unique-looking outfits, to compensate for the fairly generic (or just plain awful looking) armour that everyone ends up with. Half the items on there currently I already have as orange gear from in-game sources - why on earth would I buy them?

Edited December 19, 2012 by Grammarye

Dear Bioware please make items in cartel market actually worth buying and make an option for speeder to ride 1-2 party members on it

Yeah make something worth buying! If you want to rehash what you already have then please make plain black, dark silver accented hooded robes without lights for consulars and assassins. How difficult is that? I've not spent a dime because there's no nice looking gear or anything unique.

 

I have left feedback that they should add the Pilot's Overcoat to the store. In the Republic version it is a nice clean white robe, and could be recolored black, dark red, grey and brown, with hood up and hood down versions for each. My bet would be it would be a HUGE seller.

It's funny that the only feedback they now listen to is the free-to-play players. Never mind the 700+ post about why people unsubscribed.

 

Way to go Bioware, way to go. Truly the upstanding individual Mr. Hickman sure is. </sarcasm>

Hey guys. This thread go unstickied.

Hey guys. This thread go unstickied.

 

Of course. they are trying to bury it among other old threads. Damage control when they are trying to sell as many pre-orders for Makeb as possible.

It's funny that the only feedback they now listen to is the free-to-play players. Never mind the 700+ post about why people unsubscribed.

 

Way to go Bioware, way to go. Truly the upstanding individual Mr. Hickman sure is. </sarcasm>

 

700+ posts made by, at most, 70 people.

Statistics their forum moderators are much more clear on seeing.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Devlonir

For my part I'm holding back on buying Makeb til launch day, who knows if the game even survives 2013.

For my part I'm holding back on buying Makeb til launch day, who knows if the game even survives 2013.

 

From a revenue point of view, its more likely to survive than GW2.

 

Since its EA were talking about, everything is possible, but i wouldnt bet on it.

I dont get it, why the hell I should pay for ability to grind to 55 lvl in the same game, if I ALREADY paying them as a subscriber!? What next, they going to sell each update??? Why be a subscriber in a first place then?

 

P.S.: This reminds me of the PW-like MMO's, where you get all the edge and no sweet if you have money. And it seams Bioware leads the game in the same direction. Way to go... >.>

Edited December 26, 2012 by Ithaniel

Im bumping this thread to help prevent it from being buried.

 

I dont plan on buying the Makeb update. I mean I already paid $60+ shipping for this game and they gave it all away for free. But now I still have to pay 5.99 for this one planet and 5 extra levels even though i have been subbed non stop since launch?! F U EA!!!

 

Im pretty pissed about the direction this game has been going with all the cash grabbing and getting fairly close to P2Win...

It's funny that the only feedback they now listen to is the free-to-play players. Never mind the 700+ post about why people unsubscribed.

 

Way to go Bioware, way to go. Truly the upstanding individual Mr. Hickman sure is. </sarcasm>

 

Since free to players cannot post in the forums I am not sure how exactly they are being listened. Oh, or create tickets...

Edited December 26, 2012 by turjake

From a revenue point of view, its more likely to survive than GW2.

 

And this statement is based on?..

 

P.S. I find Free-to-Play restrictions quite alright. The game is almost absurdly expensive, so it makes sense that they encourage subscribing any possible way. I just wish that would translate in better game development compared to what we had during summer.

Firstly it is very poor that feedback for free to play is all that BW seem to be listening to. That people have purchased the game and subscribed for a year is not as important as trying to find out what a free to play person will spend 5 bucks on.

 

That aside if Bioware are listening and I have seen very little to suggest that they are. Given talk of more quick bars or whatever else they have 'changed' in response to player feedback has been very very limited anc comon sence. More quick bars really it took player feedback to tell you that was important. But if they are I would be very intestered to find out how Bioware is going to restore customer confidence.

 

What are Bioware going to in the very near future to get people on board with the game, in reguards to end game, communities and guilds, gear and look of armour outside of stuff you have to purchase, the Super Secret Space prohect that appears dead in space, sandbox features, class and companion story. In short what is being done to stop the game feeling like a sick cash cow that is being butchered by Bioware till we go into mainteance mode?

I am a subscriber and i still belive F2play is a great thing happening,as it should broaden the game,attract players and expand the game. However u have implemented a rip off system with coins and various need to pay unlock options.

Give more liberty to free to play players,allow them to experience the game properly,and on the other hand,if u wish to respect us subscribers,grant us the things f2play people cant really acomplish unless they beneft with more then their play ours. Like sets,special warzone,additional story line,end game material,customization,colouring or whatnot,etc.

 

Implement a less greedy system and u will save the game,maybe even develop it further. Best regards,Widaar.

This means that across every server, we were originally allowed to have 50 characters total. With 12 per server. Now, apparently, we can have more then 50 total characters in an upcoming patch. Who the hell has enough time on their hands to play 50 characters? Or more now...

 

Probably so people will want to replay story/questing content, which is the best and most meaty part of the game. Also if paid transfers become available and someone likes their 51st alt and wants to transfer them to their main server, this is a good money maker for EA/BioWare.

Hey Jeff,

 

Bear with me, as this will likely be a long, detailed post (filled with constructive criticism) but it will EVENTUALLY get to my feedback on F2P.

 

I'm one of the players who fell off shortly after launch... here's why my sub ended. After making the haul to 50 (which was the most enjoyable leveling experience of any MMO I've played--and I'm a vet of the vast majority of them), I found the end game content lacking. Flashpoints and Ops (I'm not much for pvp) just didn't have the draw to motivate me to come back week after week--they need totally epic gear, and drops (substantially better than the casual gamer could obtain) to reward the effort of playing them... what's more, they need to be difficult to gain access to, and difficult to find success in (read: a reason to establish community--think WOW vanilla/BC)... those hardcore few, strolling around the spaceports in the most elite gear, riding the rarest speeders... those are the ones who inspire the gaming population to come back, and spend more time/effort/money making themselves elite, to establish guilds of likeminded players, to bring the MMO feel that this game lacked from the beginning. Space combat... grrr... rails--I'm sure you've heard this before, but SWG did that right, and you're foolish to not replicated that success with a JTL-style xpac... done right, that in and of itself could be a major, MAJOR sub draw for you. So, to summarize... I left due to end game challenge, lack of MMO feel, and lackluster space combat. F2P doesn't address any of those problems...

 

Now, I just re-subbed two days ago... and I'll tell you why... the leveling experience (not your recent marketing, not free to play... just my initial interest and experience with game, and a lack of anything better to do--read: Skyrim, GW2, MOP and many others had lost their luster). I had left thoroughly intending to come back and try other characters (my first 50 was an Inquisitor, and I plan to level at least the force users, possibly all 8 classes)... this is where free to play wins... it gives people a chance to get hooked on the fantastic efforts the development team sunk into the class stories and leveling process. After reviewing the limitations F2P set, which looked rather crippling, I opted to just renew my sub as the monthly fee is only nominal to me (if I'm actually playing).

 

My suggestions for making F2P (and the game as a whole) a success are as follows:

-Let loose all the F2P restrictions up to level 49 (no more second class citizen treatment), and lock the lvl 50 content behind subs... people WILL pay to finish their stories (so that'll get you a month.. but sadly as the game stands, it will not do much for sub retention).

-Scrap the cartel market... or at the very least buying cartel coins with cash. If you can buy your upgrades, then why play? As a person of means... what's to stop me from sinking a few hundred bucks into coins to just buy the shineys I want? I think you'd be much better off gating those items behind quests, rare drops (read: time sinks, that keep people paying month to month--include some long term rewards that take 1 year of consistent play to complete)

-Release an xpac that fixes space flight and addresses the endgame issues I've brought up.... and gate it behind a sub as well (with maybe just a taste for F2Pers).

 

Well... that's just my 2 credits

 

Hope you find some of it useful... moreover, I hope you put some of my advice to use. I see SWTOR as a game of immense potential (even if much of its untapped), with a great foundation... it SHOULD be an industry leader, certainly still could be with the right effort, management, and attention.

 

Cheers!

Narce

Edited December 28, 2012 by Narce
grammar

I'm starting to wonder if the F2P engine isn't compatible with the rest of the game. I didn't used to get player lag until the F2P engine was released. Doesn't matter where I'm at in the game, as soon as another player comes by I either lag and do a 180 or lag into a group of mobs. So maybe re-assess the situation and figure out where the major and minor bugs are in the game and FIX them! Stop worrying about the cartel market for once and fix real problems...

Since free to players cannot post in the forums I am not sure how exactly they are being listened. Oh, or create tickets...

 

Reading comprehension for the win, genius. If you read what I typed again, you might catch what I said - here is a hint:

 

'... about why people unsubscribed.'

 

That would mean that they, subscribers, posted about why they unsubscribed.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Amodin

Reading comprehension for the win, genius. If you read what I typed again, you might catch what I said - here is a hint:

 

'... about why people unsubscribed.'

 

That would mean that they, subscribers, posted about why they unsubscribed.

 

When you ubsub you can post until your sub runs out.

I think they are listening to an extent, and that is self evident.

 

I would say that it would be wise for them to pay attention to the harsh critics to some degree, as it seems they received ample warning about launching the option too early, launching it with perceived draconian options that they eventually changed, etc.

 

The problem existed in Beta. Warnings were posted about the armor system and vertical progression, lack of expected modern features, lack of sustainability due to cost of expansion content for class stories, lack of "sandboxy" repeatable content, lack of end game content, the poor state of the Space Combat feature, etc. Most if not all the warnings were ignored (reasons are speculative naturally) to the game's direct peril.

 

The market, on the outside, seems to be doing well. I believe it could be doing much better. Much of that early criticism stumped it's growth and reputation IMO.

 

They have improved feedback to action ratios IMO. There is still room for improvement, and plenty of room for improvement with trusting it's players.

 

DO NOT spend most of your time listening to the game's fans. They have not and will not give you the info you need. Pay attention to the game's harshest but constructive CRITICS. Those are the folks that will show you the way.

Bioware is in the business of providing a service and making a profit. If you choose to be a tightwad and not want to spend 1 night out at a movie for a month's worth of entertainment then you get what you pay for and have to live with the restrictions or pay for the additional unlocks which aren't expensive my any stretch. 99% of hybrid MMOs makes absolutely sure you'll spend money at some point. They did say you could go 1-50 without spending a dime which is true while at the same time living with restrictions placed by choosing to do so. I have no doubt Bioware does consider all legit and reasonable feedback.

Bioware is in the business of providing a service and making a profit. If you choose to be a tightwad and not want to spend 1 night out at a movie for a month's worth of entertainment then you get what you pay for and have to live with the restrictions or pay for the additional unlocks which aren't expensive my any stretch. 99% of hybrid MMOs makes absolutely sure you'll spend money at some point. They did say you could go 1-50 without spending a dime which is true while at the same time living with restrictions placed by choosing to do so. I have no doubt Bioware does consider all legit and reasonable feedback.

 

you do know that you contradict yourself right ?

 

As you stated Bioware want to make a profit so far so good

to make profit they have to offer something people want yes ?

so going ahead and calling people that choose not to pay Bioware a tightwad solves exactly what ?

Bioware would be wise to see why this is the case and as stated before when Tor was in CB/OB alot of people not just a few predicted the downfall because of lack of service and removal of unique features Tor once had

Edited December 30, 2012 by Grmp