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Czerka Hard Modes far harder than other hard modes, need sepearated in group finder


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I'm a well geared tank. I can tank all the hard modes without much dying, except the two Czerka missions. They are way harder than anything else, and more times than not, my pug group cannot keep my alive.

 

I'm tired of this, I need my 3 weekly hard modes for Ultimate comms, but due to those 2 missions, I'm not getting them every week. Hey dev's, you made those missions too hard. Fix it, or seperate them from the other 55 hard modes in the group finder, because most people can't hand them.

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Speak for yourself, I enjoy the challenge of these hardmodes and have both Tanked and Healed them, they are not overly hard though that was with a guild group, Pugs are a different story as it's hit and miss. I hope they do not nerf them. Edited by VorKoom
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You've had bad luck with healers then.

 

The other day I joined an in progress czerka meltdown run, just to see the last bits of healer-tank discussion. There was a wipe, healer got blamed, healer left.

Few minutes later another healer joins. As sooon as he enters the fp, I get a whisper from the tank "for ****** sake, healer with ***** gear" Yeah, guy definetly was not in Kell Dragon. I checked, and it was mostly Rakata stuff , including weapons, plus a couple of 66s blues from Makeb drops. That was it.

The most memorable thing for me from that fp, was the tank's whisper. Nothing else. We went there and killed the bosses. Nothing else happened.

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Actually read what OP said. He wants them to be seperated and there he has a point. For casual players these flashpoints are overtuned and need to be seperated from the normal variety of flashpoints. For me all of them are easy, but so are hardmode 55 operations, different player, different style.
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Having run the czerka hard modes on massively overgeared toons as well as fresh 55s, I find the FPs to be just fine. I don't think they need to be in their own queue. Let's be fair, they are nowhere near the difficulty that HM LI was.

 

That being said, if there's enough demand for them to be in their own queue, I don't think it would hurt any.

Edited by Arenatah
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Learn the mechanics and quit trying to bulldoze everything. The difficulty is fine.

 

I tend to agree with this sentiment.

 

I agree that the CZHMs are tougher than the original 55HMFPs but not so much so that they need to be in a separate queue. All the HM Czerka bosses are not that difficult IF you look for the various mechanics and do what you are supposed to do. I think one of the issues is that there are fewer "shortcuts"/alternative strategies, that make those bosses easier (some would call them exploits/cheats). All this means is that BW is learning from their previous design efforts.

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This again?

 

They are fine as is, get better gear or play the mechanics better.

I've never once failed these FPs with any pug group I've played with ( had a few wipes but that's to be expected ) yet the OP seems to imply you always fail? I would wager you may be problem more than other people.

 

If anything I was hoping for something harder for FPs like some NiM content perhaps. We don't all have enough time to do NiM progression on ops.

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Just ran the second Czerka, supposedly the hardest, as tank for the first time last night. I was sure to tell my group it was my first time before we started to be sure they knew what they were getting into. My guildie wasn't the best at explaining the fights in chat (at his admission) so after two wipes I asked the rest what was wrong with my positioning. Other DPS corrected me, next pull was magic. Next boss, asked for a run down, cleared it first pull. Didn't die for the rest of the run in fact, the final boss was quite easy (my guildie explained that fight quite well).

 

So if this is the hardest content for flash points, I would say the difficulty is just fine once one minds the mechanics.

Edited by Bilirubin
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Actually read what OP said. He wants them to be seperated and there he has a point. For casual players these flashpoints are overtuned and need to be seperated from the normal variety of flashpoints. For me all of them are easy, but so are hardmode 55 operations, different player, different style.

 

Kinda like how Lost Island was all on its own at first, and for some groups it was impossible, but for my friends and I, after we learned the fights and everything, it became part of our normal flashpoint runs.

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I do not feel they are more difficult than the rest. I guess its more about how many times you run them. For example the last bosses in Cademimu and Hammer require more focus than the last bosses in Czerka FPs but we have done them so many times (in SM and HM) that you know the fights inside out. And has been pointed out they can´t be compared to HM LI that had an own tier back in the days.
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Labs is fine and maybe a tad more difficult than the other HM's imo, Meltdown is probably the hardest of them all.

 

Vigilant is easy once you got the tactics down so that shouldn't be any problem. The only two you might struggle on is the sand boss (enhanced duneclaw) and the mushroom boss (Enhanced Vrblther).

 

I'll break down the tactics on both:

 

Enhanced Duneclaw

 

1. Keep him tanked in the MIDDLE and keep all ranged spread out.

2. Once the message comes up Sandstorm Simulation Activated comes up on screen look for a green barrel/generator and make your way to it as quickly as possible, make sure he's right on top of it.

3. The ranged dps and healer should follow you but keep at max range and spread out, this is because the rampage he does will stack damage if you're all bunched up together.

4. Once he starts rampage the barrel will break and he will stop. Once this happens drag him back to the middle again for the next barrel. It's then a simple rinse and repeat.

 

You'll find that there is a lot of group-wide damage up front when he does his rampage but once it's over the damage isn't much and gives your healer plenty of time to heal up the group once you've dragged him back to the middle again, he can pop his AoE healing spell during this time. The key is making sure you get to the green barrel as quickly as possible to minimize that damage.

 

Enhanced Vrblther

 

1. You will see spores around each corner of the room. You need to drag him around to these spores and click on them when he's on top of them. This weakens him so you can damage him.

2. Add's will appear, it's essential DPS take them down ASAP, they don't have much health but hit like a truck.

 

This fight is very simple and is like the rakghoul boss in Kaon Under Siege. He has a massive knockback so instead of running to the spores you might be better to have your back to one of them in the same direction but far away. This way he will knock you into one of them rather than past them which you don't really want. The DPS need to take care of the adds asap, they don't have much health but they hit really hard. So I suggest knocking them back, AoE damage etc...

 

You'll find that although this HM is harder than most, once you have the tactics down like all HM's they become easy.

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Please search the forums before re-posting an issue that has already been discussed in an 18-pages thread.

 

New FPs: HM Overtuned, SM Too Easy?

 

I will summarize the community feedback for you:

  • CZ-198 flashpoints do NOT need a nerf, in fact they are as easy as all others.
  • CZ-198 flashpoints do NOT need a separate category (and if you don't want to do them just tick them off).
  • You need to start learning how to deal with mechanics - tanking is not just taunting, healing is not just hitting the green buttons, and damage dealing is not just spamming your auto-attack.

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I will summarize the community feedback for you:

  • CZ-198 flashpoints do NOT need a nerf, in fact they are as easy as all others.
  • CZ-198 flashpoints do NOT need a separate category (and if you don't want to do them just tick them off).
  • You need to start learning how to deal with mechanics - tanking is not just taunting, healing is not just hitting the green buttons, and damage dealing is not just spamming your auto-attack.

 

You could have shortened your reply to the typical "you are bad" which I often read (mostly in the PvP sub-forum, though).

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I think it's just about mechanics. If you don't know the 2-3 specific things you need to know each fight, then you are doomed, especially on the sandstorm boss. I'm a 3,200 willpower healer (not saying my actual skill is good, just saying I'm not in greens) and I've had groups where everyone is 2700+ main stat and we wipe constantly or I get blamed because they keep standing in circles and I've had groups where DPS is hovering around 2K main stat and we absolutely destroy the FP.

 

It's all about everyone knowing their role in that particular FP.

 

You've had bad luck with healers then.

 

The other day I joined an in progress czerka meltdown run, just to see the last bits of healer-tank discussion. There was a wipe, healer got blamed, healer left.

Few minutes later another healer joins. As sooon as he enters the fp, I get a whisper from the tank "for ****** sake, healer with ***** gear" Yeah, guy definetly was not in Kell Dragon. I checked, and it was mostly Rakata stuff , including weapons, plus a couple of 66s blues from Makeb drops. That was it.

The most memorable thing for me from that fp, was the tank's whisper. Nothing else. We went there and killed the bosses. Nothing else happened.

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I'm tired of this, I need my 3 weekly hard modes for Ultimate comms, but due to those 2 missions, I'm not getting them every week. Hey dev's, you made those missions too hard. Fix it, or seperate them from the other 55 hard modes in the group finder, because most people can't hand them.

 

First, you can filter what FPs you queue for in GF, and turn those off if you don't want to do them. Sure you won't get the elite comms from the GF daily, but it still counts for your weekly ultimate comms mission.

 

Second, these are not that hard. Sure the jungle boss is annoying with all his knockbacks, and you need to AoE taunt the adds if they don't die quickly, but at least I'm not falling asleep when i tank this like I do on most of the other HM FP bosses. And the desert boss mostly requires moving quickly and using your mobility skills.

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To the original poster

you need to learn the fights just a little bit better. Also you probably are getting stuck with bad groups. For that i can understand but and but if you're in a guild and your group is all on vent, teamspeak, mumble or whatever you use then it shouldn't be that big or a problem at all.

I can easily tank this hm's on my Shadow tank which isn't the best class for tanking right now thank you BW :mad:

It just comes down to communication.

If you have a good group meaning a healer that know's what to do for the fights and dps that know they are not the tanks they you shouldn't have a problem at all

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Please search the forums before re-posting an issue that has already been discussed in an 18-pages thread.

 

New FPs: HM Overtuned, SM Too Easy?

 

I will summarize the community feedback for you:

  • CZ-198 flashpoints do NOT need a nerf, in fact they are as easy as all others.
  • CZ-198 flashpoints do NOT need a separate category (and if you don't want to do them just tick them off).
  • You need to start learning how to deal with mechanics - tanking is not just taunting, healing is not just hitting the green buttons, and damage dealing is not just spamming your auto-attack.

 

Huh? I have not read in this thread that any one actually asked for a nerf at atll. The only thing I have read is someone would like these to have these on their own. No one has asked for a nerf from what I read in this forum.

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You don't need to queue for all of them. Pick which ones you want to get. You'll still get the HM weekly for completing 3 of them.

 

If you want to queue for them all, it will be tougher until you get the hang of the mechanics. Read NerdTech's excellent post above for the most important tactics. Only thing I'd add to that: for enhanced vrblther, tank him in the middle so you can taunt/stun the adds as soon as they come so they don't instantly eat the healer (as well as telling dps to be on them immediately).

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I find the CZ hard modes to be on par with the other hard modes difficulty-wise.. Once you know the mechanics these fights are very simple. If the lfg tool groups you with inexperienced players you will have a harder time regardless of which flashpoint you're in. Edited by Projawa
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I find the CZ hard modes to be on par with the other hard modes difficulty-wise.. Once you know the mechanics these fights are very simple. If the lfg tool groups you with inexperienced players you will have a harder time regardless of which flashpoint you're in.

 

 

Well the czerka ones need more healing and the bosses do more dmg than the older ones.

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They are not hard enough to be deem a seperate queue. I have run in it guild groups(They are so easy its boring), pugs on my 72/75's with fresh 55's im talking 22-24K(stiII yawn), on my nubtoons with little PvE gear with like geared groups(still yawn after a wipe or two once everyone understand mechanics). The only way these FP's are possibly challanging on HM is 2 manned. Even that we rarely wipe anymore.
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