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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones


Monoth

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How about remove the queue solo button instead? As someone that premades that shouldn't affect you and the PUGs you perceive as bad would stay the hell away from your fun. Don't you agree that removing the queue solo button would enable a whole new competitive PvP in swtor? No worry about losing rank. Why not only allow 4-man and 8-man queue options to minimize queue times and maximize the competitive PvP fun? The solo queuers can go **** themselves or group up. What is your honest opinion on that?

 

First, lemme state -my- position again before making any comment, in the hopes we can avoid the usual false assumptions and petty insults.

 

50's pvp needs two things:

 

1. Cross server queueing for a great population/pool.

2. Better matchmaking that tries to match players according to group size. The typical match should be a 3-4 man premade, and then 4-5 pugs.

 

Yes I play in a group. I also have a 40hrs a week job, 3 hours commute, and several prior engagements/commitments, including a decent amount of time spent with my SO in Tera.

 

Would you like to attempt engaging in an intelligent discussion with me again, or are you going to vomit unreasonable nonsense at me?

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First, lemme state -my- position again before making any comment, in the hopes we can avoid the usual false assumptions and petty insults.

 

50's pvp needs two things:

 

1. Cross server queueing for a great population/pool.

2. Better matchmaking that tries to match players according to group size. The typical match should be a 3-4 man premade, and then 4-5 pugs.

 

Yes I play in a group. I also have a 40hrs a week job, 3 hours commute, and several prior engagements/commitments, including a decent amount of time spent with my SO in Tera.

 

 

)-----------------------------------------------------------------(

 

Now, I wanted to comment on an argument I keep seeing, which is "PuG's just want their fun too."

 

Fun is a subjective term. Someone -could- find smashing their head into a brick wall fun. Someone could find anything besides eating chocolate all day "no fun."

 

The main reason I see these PuG's claiming PvP is "no fun" is because they are being beaten by a premade. In other words, they are -Losing.-

 

While we already discussed that fun is subjective, let's be real for a moment. It's very simple... people claim they are not having fun because they are losing. You can throw the usual "No, it just not fun because we don't have a chance!" but in the most basic terms, you are not having fun because you are -Losing.-

 

I sympathize, because I know that I do not find losing fun. A loss can be fun, but losing in general is not. It's alright to be honest and simply say: "It is no fun PuG'ing because we lose."

 

Once people stop trying to hide behind the facade of "just trying to have fun" and admit they want to win, then the real work can begin. How can BW fairly create a situation where a PuG's can win more often? Should they even attempt to create such a situation to appease them? Where is the line between a helping hand, and a welfare system? (Yes, this applies to real life too!)

 

You have to remember the current system (and a proposed split queue system) rewards players for competing. A winning team receives a higher reward (more comms) than losing team because the winners presumably put more effort in.

 

Are you, as PuG's willing to accept a smaller reward if the system is chained to -lower- the effort you must put in to win?

 

If the answer is no, then you need to raise your level of effort to win or suffer.

 

If the answer is yes, then that is a discussion for another time.

 

Well put!! +1

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Would you like to attempt engaging in an intelligent discussion with me again, or are you going to vomit unreasonable nonsense at me?

I asked you a question. I repeat isn't it better to just remove the queue solo button? You don't want pugs to only face pugs since that would cause long queue times for premades. You also don't want any measures taken to level 50 PvP until x-server queues and you certainly don't want to wait longer for warzone pops because you are premading (or did you change your mind recently?). I think we all know x-server queues are never going to happen after they stealth removed that particular part in the queue window. We also know that premaders don't want to wait up to 15 minutes for a 4-man premade to be freed up from an ongoing warzone so they can be queued against each other. So what you suggest is wishful thinking that never is going to happen. That train left with the other 2 mil subs that left the game.

 

Removing the queue solo button would force solo queuers to premade and make the premaders happy. I know you love to ignore difficult questions and spout some other nonsense. Can you just answer with a simple yes or no and then a short motivation if the solo queue button should be removed now that we know what you suggest is never going to happen. I don't need an essay or book recommendations. I probably have read them all if they are somewhat known and involve politics and sci-fi.

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Removing the queue solo button would force solo queuers to premade and make the premaders happy.

 

Ah the Elitist attitude never gets old.

PUG's: Want equality and a resonable chance to win rather then get facerolled as soon as they leave the safe area (which I have seen 4 people sitting near the safe area waiting to burn people as they come out) If your only winning 1 out of 25 games then who is winning the other 24...? Honestly who doesn't like to win? but there is a difference between 1 in 25 and 12 in 25.

 

Elitists: Don't want to be forced to have to wait and think "I don't see any problem with me farming comms for my 10th char with my friends that have been playing since the start of the game, against a group of noobs that are on there first one." I use the term noob because with f2p that exactly what your getting a bunch of new people that are just learning how to play the game meaning it will take time to make friends to make premade groups.) You also belive the game should conform to what you belive because you know all. "Why should we have to wait to face other premade groups? lets force the new people that just started playing to play like us or leave."

 

But hey if you want the new people to leave because they feel it's rediculas they can't win (which it is) then so be it have as much fun as you can now before you can't get into a pvp or better yet they flip the switch on the servers cause no one but the hardcore I am better then you audience is all that's left. Solo Que should be just that solo and there should be a group que. If you don't like the wait for a group then play like the majority of the servers and join a solo game and take your chance just like they do. hell from what I read hardly anyone does the ranked stuff because they are to scared to face a challenge when they can farm comms for beating up noobs.

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I asked you a question. I repeat isn't it better to just remove the queue solo button? You don't want pugs to only face pugs since that would cause long queue times for premades. You also don't want any measures taken to level 50 PvP until x-server queues and you certainly don't want to wait longer for warzone pops because you are premading (or did you change your mind recently?). I think we all know x-server queues are never going to happen after they stealth removed that particular part in the queue window. We also know that premaders don't want to wait up to 15 minutes for a 4-man premade to be freed up from an ongoing warzone so they can be queued against each other. So what you suggest is wishful thinking that never is going to happen. That train left with the other 2 mil subs that left the game.

 

Removing the queue solo button would force solo queuers to premade and make the premaders happy. I know you love to ignore difficult questions and spout some other nonsense. Can you just answer with a simple yes or no and then a short motivation if the solo queue button should be removed now that we know what you suggest is never going to happen. I don't need an essay or book recommendations. I probably have read them all if they are somewhat known and involve politics and sci-fi.

 

Now, you're just being stubborn because you can't win an argument. (I'm sensing a losing trend here.)

 

Cross server queue'ing is just as likely as a PuG only queue system. Even without Cross server, it -might- be possible for a better matchmaking system that is Inclusive but will still, on occassion be forced to pit 8 pugs against a premade and 4 pugs to keep queue times down.

 

I have never advocated for the removal of a solo only option, I have simply encouraged those whom choose to -exclusively- take that option to stop, and get involved in a guild/team. If someone refuses to break away from their solitary queue ways, by all means allow them to keep queue'ing. They of course, should expect their chances of -winning- to be much lower than someone who isn't being a full-time loner.

 

<.< So... you done throwing a tantrum?

Edited by Doomsdaycomes
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Now, you're just being stubborn because you can't win an argument. (I'm sensing a losing trend here.)

 

Cross server queue'ing is just as likely as a PuG only queue system. Even withotu Cross server, it -might- be possible for a better matchmaking system that is Inclusive but will still, on occassion be forced to pit 8 pugs against a premade and 4 pugs to keep queue times down.

 

I have never advocated for the removal of a solo only option, I have simply encouraged those whom choose to -exclusively- take that option to stop, and get involved in a guild/team. If someone refuses to break away from their solitary queue ways, by all means allow them to keep queue'ing. They of course, should expect their chances of -winning- to be much lower than someone who isn't being a full-time loner.

 

<.< So... you done throwing a tantrum?

 

Prophecy of the five has much better groups than any of the other servers, even though the latest server merge made them weaker (fatman players are REALLY BAD). Cross server q's will not save this game. People on other servers are going to get a significant dose of reality.

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Prophecy of the five has much better groups than any of the other servers, even though the latest server merge made them weaker (fatman players are REALLY BAD). Cross server q's will not save this game. People on other servers are going to get a significant dose of reality.

 

First, lemme state -my- position again before making any comment, in the hopes we can avoid the usual false assumptions and petty insults.

 

50's pvp needs two things:

 

1. Cross server queueing for a great population/pool.

2. Better matchmaking that tries to match players according to group size. The typical match should be a 3-4 man premade, and then 4-5 pugs.

 

Yes I play in a group. I also have a 40hrs a week job, 3 hours commute, and several prior engagements/commitments, including a decent amount of time spent with my SO in Tera.

 

^_^ yes, for PuG's to be happy, we need more than X-server.

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Doomsday what I'm saying though even without cross server implemented won't slow q's down much at all. If you make it so that teams can be mixed faction (when needed) and you make a good premade matching system (not a 100% premade vs premade but a wait a few mins for other premades instead of no attempt to match at all) then pvp will be much improved and without a large increase to q times.

 

This isn't hard to implement. Cross server is apparently difficult for them but this should be relatively easy. There are many times where multiple premades are q'n regular, however because there will almost always be more pug qr's than premade q'rs and the ppl q at slightly different times then these premades often don't face eachother with the current system. If they were to wait a couple mins then they could.

 

Also this would put an end to sync q'n since they would just end up against eachother in many situations. I was going to do rated yesterday on one of my chars and then we couldn't get a pop so we just sync q'd. It worked once and didn't once. It should be very hard to get this to work lol.

 

And sure later a ranking type system could be put in place but I'd rather a simple fast fix be done first.

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Doomsday what I'm saying though even without cross server implemented won't slow q's down much at all. If you make it so that teams can be mixed faction (when needed) and you make a good premade matching system (not a 100% premade vs premade but a wait a few mins for other premades instead of no attempt to match at all) then pvp will be much improved and without a large increase to q times.

 

This isn't hard to implement. Cross server is apparently difficult for them but this should be relatively easy. There are many times where multiple premades are q'n regular, however because there will almost always be more pug qr's than premade q'rs and the ppl q at slightly different times then these premades often don't face eachother with the current system. If they were to wait a couple mins then they could.

 

Also this would put an end to sync q'n since they would just end up against eachother in many situations. I was going to do rated yesterday on one of my chars and then we couldn't get a pop so we just sync q'd. It worked once and didn't once. It should be very hard to get this to work lol.

 

And sure later a ranking type system could be put in place but I'd rather a simple fast fix be done first.

 

Yes, I think you and I agreed on almost all points <.<

 

Edit: (Except cross faction groups, but that is a small part in a broader idea.)

Edited by Doomsdaycomes
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No what most people are worried about, is anything that might drive up queue times.

 

Christ.. its been proven it does exactly the opposite. This is not the first game which has had the premade vs pug problem, this is not the first game that lost large chunks of the population because of it. Do some research, play some other games, see what the results are. The damn digging in your heels, sky is going to fall mentality has got to end.

 

Again for the slow amongst you, in all games that have implemented it it improved queue times, not worsened them. And no, cross server queues are not going to happen. What this game needs a immediate fix, something to keep the existing players interested and the F2P players hooked.

 

And Doom, go read my *********** posts.. you've got enough time to write page long posts but not enough to read the replies. I'm done repeating myself to you.

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Christ.. its been proven it does exactly the opposite. This is not the first game which has had the premade vs pug problem, this is not the first game that lost large chunks of the population because of it. Do some research, play some other games, see what the results are. The damn digging in your heels, sky is going to fall mentality has got to end.

 

Again for the slow amongst you, in all games that have implemented it it improved queue times, not worsened them. And no, cross server queues are not going to happen. What this game needs a immediate fix, something to keep the existing players interested and the F2P players hooked.

 

And Doom, go read my *********** posts.. you've got enough time to write page long posts but not enough to read the replies. I'm done repeating myself to you.

 

Fact:

 

You have not answered why it's hard to make 1-3 friends and play with them.

 

Fact:

 

You have accused me of deflection, but I have answered your question directly.

 

Fact:

 

You can not win your Q.Q argument, and have given up.

 

Fact:

 

Doom doesn't really care any way. =P Doom is too busy playing Borderlands 2 with S.O.

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Christ.. its been proven it does exactly the opposite. This is not the first game which has had the premade vs pug problem, this is not the first game that lost large chunks of the population because of it. Do some research, play some other games, see what the results are. The damn digging in your heels, sky is going to fall mentality has got to end.

 

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha.... Lol...

 

Okay, okay... whew, I think I'm done.... ahahahahahahahaa...

 

>.< Okay, so while taking a break from BL2, I got a little curious and went to check out some stuff on GW2 and this supposed Solo/Group split queue master piece I keep hearing about.

 

>.< You neglected to mention the only "Premade" pvp they had were Tournaments (which you must have a full 5 man team), not the regular matchmaking. So no, GW2 hasn't split -normal- pvp into PuG only and Premade queues.

 

Secondly, if I'm reading this correctly standard, average pvp is something called a HoT-join, which can't be joined as a group (so again, not a split queue there, simply not allowed.) Funny enough, people have found a way (video dated Aug 30st, 2012) to join into these hot-joins with their budddies, by entering the same Match with enough spaces at the same time (or hitting join friend in pvp) and ending up on the same team 90%. So much for that theory.

 

Hahhaaha... hahahaa... ha...

 

So not only is GW2's "queue" system completely different from SWTor's, they official have no -normal- group pvp, and their PuG only option fails >.< ... Nice.

 

 

 

Edit2: <.< oh ya, and from what I can see, GW2's pvp (Hot-joins) is -all- cross-server.

 

Edit: Also, Google searches for "PuG only PvP options" and similiar searches have turned up nothing. Name one.

Edited by Doomsdaycomes
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Not quite sure where I put that we played them together as I have a job that tends to occupy the day and her a job that tends to occupy the night but when you find where I said that we played pvp as a group please show me because for the life of me... I cannot find it /shrug.

 

So neither you nor your wife cant make friends in the game. Funny that:D.

So ok theres a person who actually does have a wife and plays with her, do you want to break up that great cupple because of your own false assumptions / they are casuals, they que together, talk about day to day stuff while enjoing the game and you want to take that away? So mean ...

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Well Saj sometimes they would be in pug matches and sometimes they would be with another premade (against a premade though). In either case the match is closer to even overall and I don't see how they would be hurt. Also, if they are very casual and have crap gear that would be taken into consideration later when the matching system was improved.
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If you all actively like 2 shotting n00bs in pvp with your high end gear all day and find that fullfills your lifes desires why don't you re-roll on a pvp server, that's why they are there right.... for pvp....

 

<.< actually, PvP servers are for those who enjoy unrestricted Open World PvP, but that's another animal entirely. It's really a bad label. Personally I choose rp or PvE because I wouldn't attack someone minding their business doing dailies, and I expect the same from others. PvE/RP server are what provides that.

 

That being said, to Wanzker or whatever his name was, everything you said has been said already, but sadly everytime someone enters into the conversation and combines advice with insults, what was a fruitful conversation turns back into mudslinging. >.> We're all aware the election is over?

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why is this still going on......srsly...

 

 

there isnt a single good xcuse to WANT to solo queue..NONE!

 

the only viable one is "i dont have enough time during the week to play and im only on 30 mins at a time", well tuff luck buddy, your schedule doesnt allow you to fully enjoy a mmo, btu the game wont adpt to you.

 

every other xcuse is just BS from awkward freaks that manage to transfer their lack of irl social skills to online games..which is appalling by itself..

 

MAKE YOUR OWN PREMADE OR JOIN ONE!!! both options take no longer then 10-15 mins worst case scenario.

(if you are bad and people dont invite you or kick you from premades..then the problem is in you chalenged brain and you should go play something more simple)

 

its an mmo your suppose to interact with people, if you cant or don't want to then you just a freak and oxygen is being wasted by you...move on to single player games.

 

 

tired of this freak show...its 4 man premades ..how hard can it be to invite 3 people and not be a complete social retard that cant communicate?

 

 

 

(ye my english and grammar....sorry not my 1st language)

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I like winning but I'm not very upset if I'm losing provided that I get to fight and maybe learn a trick or two. I'll talk about my experience and will not pretend I know what ever all others experience. I've spent 10 + months on this game my main char is short only 2 pieces WH gear (chest and head), I also have 3 more lvl 50s. I'm fully augmented and almost 20K HP on that slinger. I win more then I lose by a good margin and I do pre-mades as well as solo queues and generally enjoy the PvP in this game.

You know what pisses me off the most? Not losing a game, not the pre-mades, not the CC/resolve conundrum, not the FOTM classes, not the gear disparity (got my battle master suit prior of 1.2 for those of you that knows what that means) cause most of the time I can deal with those "issues", but being ROFL stomped because the match making system have placed me in an impossible position really really really gets me upset (understatement). Can't have any more ROFL stomping crap after spending 10 months in the game (told you, this is just about me :cool:). I don't even want to phantom how a fresh fifty must feel these days.

On my server, The Red Eclipse, the population is large enough to support a better matchmaking system and I'm sure that if the matches will be better balanced more and more people will come in for the fun.

Edit:

Since filipesantana posted while I was writing my post I just want to say: " filipe, F-, your English is not your biggest problem, sit down" :p.

Edited by LenrocNewDawn
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Why can't BW just allow us to queue a 8-man ops in NWZ? That will make the bad solo queuers get back to their care bear PvE game. PvP will be glorious without all the bads.

 

It will also be empty, I think you underestimate how many people solo queue....bioware could say good bye to a ton of subscribers that would quit as a result of it.

Edited by Darth-Rammstein
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The reason to solo que:

 

'Cause I can play my classes?

I dont need a premade to win?

Coordination goes a long way if you just talk.

 

The reason to not solo que:

You have other people in guild/friends who are pvping (always more fun to BS while PVPing)

It is an MMO. Designed to play as a group.

Cause you suck and that is all you will que as.

 

You cannot win at a game if you aren't constantly trying to make yourself better. There are hacks and there are OP'd classes.The amount of players hacking is few and far between. Though it is out there and always will be out there. They will make new hacks when they get caught. There will be premades cause people just dont like grouping alone. Prime example is there are people on ToFN that only do premades at night cause that is the only way they win. They do a double que in NWZ and wait for the same que pop. By themselves they suck, they cant do anything outside of 2 Focus Target attacking smashmonkeys with operative healer and DPS Sorc.

 

So, there are tons of reasons to que solo and not que solo. Different styles of play for different people. Though, I did nothing but que solo over this weekend except for probably 3-4 matches. I had no problem getting top damage on my gunslinger, over 140k protection on my vanguard and juggernaut and 200k-350k healing on my Operative and sage. I know those aren't impressive. I have seen much higher, but for solo quing without comms I was happy with my 352k on my sage =3. So, what I am saying is: If you cant solo que cause you get facestomped, take each fight you have as a learning objective for your class. Figure out what you could have done to make that fight better and evolve off it with your characters. =)

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Let me actually define "Over powered" In my perspective. There are classes that do more damage then others, and there are classes designed to do more damage then others. However, all are pretty close at the moment. But some are MUCH easier to play then others to achieve that damage.
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